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Re: Wintering in potentially freezing conditions, watermaker?
Mark McGovern
Dean,
I used Starbrite pink antifreeze the last two winters here in the Chesapeake and it has worked well. I used it for all systems including: air conditioning, heads, anchor wash, watermaker, freshwater system, engine and generator. All told it took ~16 gallons. It would be less if you have a second person who can tell you when the pink stuff start coming out of the system you are fillning with antifreeze. I also made sure to drain and bypass my hot water heater before doing the fresh water system. One of the winters we had a serious cold snap where the temperature did not go above freezing for close to 3 weeks. The antifreeze turned into a "slush" in the heads and I was concerned about the watermaker membrane. However, it appears to be no worse for wear as the output and quality in terms of TDS and EC readings are about the same as they were two years ago. I would highly recommend that no matter how you winterize the watermaker that you drain the product water line/flowmeter. While you can do it at the back of the watermaker panel, I found that the easiest way is to undo one of the many connections in the product water line right where it exits the membranes. See the section circled in RED in the picture below: Just loosen one of those connections and drop the tube low and a small amount of water will come out. It takes all of ~2 minutes and could save you a ton of hassle. I drained it the first year I winterized when I was being super careful and meticulous but I was in a rush last year and I forgot to drain it. Sure enough, the water froze and the glass tube of the flowmeter shattered: I was quoted ~US$400 for a replacement flowmeter from the US distributor for Dessalator. Ouch. Figuring that this was an "off the shelf" part I got the manufacturer name and part number off the part and contacted them directly. CT Platon in France is the manufacturer and my flowmeter had "A10HS – CA251001" engraved on it. Thankfully, CT Platon is still in business and they still make the part. They quoted me ~132 Euros plus shipping for a replacement meter. When I send the Platon representative the pictures above to confirm that I was ordering the correct part number, he told me that the fittings looked fine and that they could just sell me a replacement glass tube and o-ring kit for ~77 Euros. So all in all, not nearly as costly a mistake as it could have been but one that I will NOT be making again. So learn from my mistake and drain the tube/flowmeter! Below is some information for the flowmeter that is on my Amel SM Hull #440 with a Dessalator D160 watermaker: Glass tube flowmeter type NG Flow range : 10-100 L/min Air ( please advise if different)
Ref : GTF3AHS-E
100mm ceramic engraved scale
¼’’ BSPP brass rear connections
Brass fine control valve
Brass float / Viton O rings
I have also attached some of the documents that the very helpful and friendly rep from CT Platon sent me. -- Mark McGovern SM #440 Cara Deale, MD USA
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Re: Wintering in potentially freezing conditions, watermaker?
Thomas Peacock
Hi Dean,
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I would not want to count on the glycerine passing through the membranes. On further reading, it is nearly identical in size and structure to propylene glycol. However, if you do keep the engine room a little warm, that should protect the membranes as well. As Mark commented earlier, be sure to drain the part of the watermaker system that is not in the engine room. Tom Peacock SM 240 Aletes Chesapeake Bay
On Aug 9, 2019, at 6:10 AM, SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:
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Re: Cabin sole revarnishing
smiles bernard
Thanks Matt 👍
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Ok so it looks like a heat gun is the best bet for removal. The boats on a mooring so perhaps best to wait a while till I’ve got shore power for the job. I’ll probably take a floor hatch home and try on that small section 1st before tackling the floor I can’t remove in situ. I’ll see what works best. Heat gun vs cabinet scraper and report back. I assume if someone used polyurethane before then the heat gum might not work but hopefully it’s just varnish. Thanks for the tip the polyurethane option btw. I’ll hunt for basketball court floor systems All the best
On 8 Aug 2019, at 03:11, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:
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Re: Wintering in potentially freezing conditions, watermaker?
Ok great, thanks Tom.
We'll be wintering ashore, so we don't even benefit from the "warmth" of that Scottish water! I think I will try to find some kind of "safe" low-level heat producer for the engine room. Whilst my Dessalater Duo 100 manual is silent on the subject of anti freeze etc, it does very clearly state that the membranes themselves should not be taken below 0C. I guess if I drain the tube, and production pipe from the membranes that will also drain any residual fresh water in the membranes. I like your solution of using Steriliser + Glycerin, if this passes through the membranes as you suspect, then it would give protection to the tube. Many thanks Dean SY Stella A54-154 Loch Stornoway (Sheltering from a gale!)
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Battery nightmare
Andrew & Kate Lamb
Thought I would share a recent battery nightmare that we had.
We had a 30 hour passage from Canet-en-Roussillon to Mallorca earlier this week, this involved quite a few hours of motoring. We arrived and dropped anchor mid morning . That evening we had a discharge of the batteries to around
82% the genset was started as usual and the batteries brought up to 100% before bedtime.
The next morning the batteries were at 92% charge and I started the genset again over breakfast and went for a swim. After 30 mins I noticed that the charge was still 92% yet the Victron Color Control indicated that the charger
was in bulk phase. I went to check the batteries only to find that the outside of the battery compartment was extremely hot. I immediately shutdown the genset and disconnected the batteries and opened all the ventilators and then opened the battery compartment.
On inspection the battery boxes (Victron AGM x13) we’re melting, bulging and distorted. Some time ago I invested in a laser spot thermometer and used this to check the surface temperature of the batteries all except a few were greater than 50 degrees centigrade
the rest being in the high 40s. I then proceeded to disconnect the interconnecting wire between each of the 6 pairs of house batteries, to effectively isolate all the batteries from each other. Fortunately we we able to keep the fridge and freezer running
off the 450watt solar panels. After a few hours the temperatures had dropped to mid 40s. We were then in the predicament that we were at anchor with no way of starting the motor or lifting the anchor. It was clear that all the batteries were lost but we needed
to try to salvage a few temporarily to allow us to get into port. So I then decided to test each of the batteries using a load tester and marked each of the completely destroyed batteries with a red cross and marked the load amp result on the rest. This left
5 functional batteries- the motor (311 amps) , and 4 others - around 150 amps each. So I hooked these back up into the system and turned the battery switches on again. Interestingly our Victron panel reported a 100% charge with absorption phase. Over the next
few hours the temperatures continued to drop, we managed to start the engine, lift the anchor and went into port. In port we disconnected all batteries except the best 2 house batteries as we were advised that it would not be safe to run the Victron Quattro
without batteries attached (like a 24 volt supply as someone suggested) and we needed to keep fridges etc going. With the boat well ventilated the batteries continuing to cool and on the boat connected to shore power we then just had to source some replacement
batteries . The following day kitted with locally sourced goggles etc, and the batteries down to sub 30 temperatures, I had to use a large screwdriver and hammer to gently separate the batteries and remove them one by one as they were stuck together. There
was around 1cm of battery acid in the battery compartment after all the batteries had been removed. The Victron Quattro supplier suggested that one of the 3 year old Victron battery cells probably failed and caused this. We have decided to go back to sealed
lead acid batteries this time around. I am interested in the lithium discussions as these batteries have such a high degree of self monitoring, because of their potential dangers, which more traditional batteries don’t have. Yet all batteries have there dangers.
I was very glad to have the spot thermometer and battery tester at hand.
Andrew Lamb
SV Ronpische
SM 472
Currently puerto de Soller
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Re: Amel is going lithium
Hi Scott Really interesting thread, thank you. We are following with interest. After we met you at the Caribbean Amel Rally 2019 we took a late decision to do the Pacific this year, and end our circumnavigation in Nov 2019 instead of 2010. After this, we will probably sell Island Pearl II, but if we do not sell and decide to go around again instead, then adding Lithium batteries will certainly be the last of many upgrade steps to Island Pearl II. Based on this I would also be most interested in getting a copy of your upcoming Lithium report. On Island Pearl II we have 1040w of solar, run through three separate solar controllers, plus two Rutland 1200 wind gens, and we now seldom use the genset. We have the same 100 Duo watermaker as you, plus do all cooking on our induction stove which is so much nicer than gas cooking. Gas is only for oven baking which we seldom do. To improve washing efficiency we recently upgraded the Amel supplied "Thompson" washing machine to a new "Bosch" as that comes with better cleaning and efficiency, and particularly has a dedicated special "cold water" washing cycle for doing our washing from batteries only. As we near the end of our circumnavigation, we are now pretty close to running the boat "off the grid", but I have always thought that the final piece to the puzzle would be Lithium batteries, so look forward to reading your article and learning from your experiences. By the way, in addition, I remain a total convert to the need for at least two good wind generators on any boat in order to reach a total off the grid experience. Litium could become the trup card that proves me wrong on this but I doubt it. These units are so now so quiet, that (other than visually) they go almost unnoticed. When one considers 50% of time is in darkness, and at least another 5% each per early morning and late afternoon low sun angle, leaves only 40% max (and that is on a sunny day!) with good solar production. Yes solar output completely outstrips that of wind power ten times over, but we would never again be without at least two latest models, high-efficiency good quality wind gen units aswell, which, for example, on night crossings on a beam reach, I often watch putting out 6amp each constantly, and then at anchor on cloudy/windy days (27 - 33kts) push out over 10amps each (x24v of course). Watching with interest Colin Streeter SV Island Pearl II, sm #332 Niue, Pacific
On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 9:34 AM Scott SV Tengah <sv.tengah@...> wrote: Paul, --
Colin Streeter 0411 016 445
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Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance carriers
John Clanton <jclanton@...>
Matt,
If you are interested in hearing about our positive experiences, please send me a note at
clanton@... and we can discuss off line.
John
On Aug 8, 2019, at 17:58, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:
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Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance carriers
Thanks!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I’ll give a call... ~~~⛵️~~~Matt
On Aug 8, 2019, at 2:19 PM, John Clanton <jclanton@...> wrote:
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Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance carriers
John Clanton <jclanton@...>
Matt,
I took delivery of my 55 in La Rochelle last year. We took the same route as you are planning and received a very favorable quote from Pantaenius. I have been very happy with Kerry Gonzales, a broker out of Florida, who represents different underwriters. Her contact information is:
Kerry Gonzalez AMG Insurance International (772) 742-2401 Direct Dial (317) 670-2112 Cell
John W. Clanton S/V Devereux Amel 55, No. 65 Currently in Nice, France
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Matt Salatino via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 12:39 PM To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance carriers
Sorry to jump in on this thread.... We are taking possession of our Amel 50 in Sept. We are searching for insurance now. USA flagged, but cruising the Iberian Peninsula and the Med. Thanks in advance... ~~~⛵️~~~Matt
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Re: Genoa car springs
Thanks very much Gary...good thoughts
Cheers Alan Elyse SM 437
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Re: Amel is going lithium
Scott SV Tengah
Paul,
I can't really predict for you, but I would guess as long as you spend most of your time around 50% and don't let it drop below 30% very often, the 15-20 year lifetime sounds very realistic. Keep in mind that ONE over voltage or ONE under voltage condition can irreversibly damage the cell and likely the battery. That's why the BMS is there but all the charging sources need to be able to cut off charging once the BMS tells them to do so. And if any of the cell voltages drop below the safe level per the BMS, there should be an automatic disconnect of all the loads. Given the way Amels are wired, this last part has been a struggle for me. You ideally should keep it at 40-50% while its wintered. Whatever you do, don't keep it at 100%. The Victron chargers don't have a direct way to specify target SOC, so I had to find a workaround. -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: Insurance carriers
Mark & Debbie Mueller
I recently met a 2001 SM owner who had a near lightning strike that killed most of the electronics on board. His broker is Hanham Insurance Agency. Not sure of the brokers name but the mobile number is 843.276.1608; I think the underwriter is Yacht Insurers. He has been pleased with the service he has received including the funding of the repairs which are ongoing currently. hanhaminsurance.com
-- Mark Mueller Brass Ring A54
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Re: Insurance carriers
Sorry to jump in on this thread....
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
We are taking possession of our Amel 50 in Sept. We are searching for insurance now. USA flagged, but cruising the Iberian Peninsula and the Med. Thanks in advance... ~~~⛵️~~~Matt
On Aug 8, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:
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Re: Insurance carriers
Mike,
I am assuming you are USA flagged?
I spent a lot of time on insurance after Pantaenius USA changed their Caribbean policy requirements to a point where it was just about impossible to comply.
If you are not planning on being anywhere near the Caribe during the season, try talking to Scott:
Scott Stusek | Vice President
PANTAENIUS America Ltd. 500 Mamaroneck Avenue |Harrison, NY 10528 | United States of America Tel. 443-569-7995 | Fax. 443-569-7996 | Cell 914-217-7991 sstusek@pantaenius.com | www.pantaenius.us
Another option that may work for you is an awesome company called Novamar. It is an A-Rated insurance company with a really easy to understand policy. The contact is Chris. He is an independent agency who writes a lot of policies for Novamar.
Chris Boome Insurance Agency LIC# 0A99058 751 Laurel Street #216 San Carlos, CA 94070 O: 650-517-3160 C: 650-464-0728 E-mail: chris@...
Both of the companies above will offer a stated value / declared value policies.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff www.creampuff.us
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Mike Ondra via Groups.Io
Having been dropped by Travelers we are receiving quotes for coverage for East Coast US and Caribbean (not hurricane season). Age is apparently a factor in rates and Aletes is a 1998 hull. Received quote from IRSUS Inc./Aspen American Insurance Company for $4797 on hull value of $225,000 with 5% deductible. Does anyone have experience with this company? Geico quote was $5808 with 4% deductible. Thoughts? Mike Ondra Aletes SM#240 Chesapeake Bay
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Insurance carriers
Having been dropped by Travelers we are receiving quotes for coverage for East Coast US and Caribbean (not hurricane season). Age is apparently a factor in rates and Aletes is a 1998 hull. Received quote from IRSUS Inc./Aspen American Insurance Company for $4797 on hull value of $225,000 with 5% deductible. Does anyone have experience with this company? Geico quote was $5808 with 4% deductible. Thoughts? Mike Ondra Aletes SM#240 Chesapeake Bay
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Re: Genoa car springs
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Re: Did you catch 4 errors on the Delos series 205?
We are fans of Delos.
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Have been watching them for a couple of years now. The Amel was not really a relevant part of why we watched, though it is more interesting since we became Amelians.... ~~~⛵️~~~Matt
On Aug 8, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Gary Wells <gary@...> wrote:
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Re: Deleware Bay --> Cape May anchorages
Wolfgang,
Good to be hanging out with another Amel last night in Cape May. Quite a.little squall last evening! The smaller boat next to us drug back and the young couple were fighting the whole time; they must've been near hypothermic by the time.it was all over. At any rate, wishing you a good sail and we'll wave when you pass us (again)!! Cheers, Gary and Robin SM 209, Adagio underway @ Atlantic City
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Re: Amel is going lithium
Hi Scott
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I do like your thinking and see you have muchbmore understanding than I. I generally run my 720ah lithium MV down to around 30% before I top them up with the generator and usually only to about 50 or 60 %, maybe every 2 weeks I will charge to 100% when I’m making water or washing machine or aircon or all, otherwise I’m relaxed at anchor and keep them around 50%, the 550w 24v solar contributes to 75% of my general 24v/220 inverter power consumption How many cycles do you think I’ll get and how many years of life seeing the boat is wintered 6 months a year? The MV technician said he would think 15 to 20 years total life, as they are relatively new technology they don’t really have those statistics but at a guess. Regards Paul-Fortuna II 55#17
On 8 Aug 2019, at 2:31 pm, Scott SV Tengah <sv.tengah@...> wrote:
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Re: Genoa car springs
Gary Silver
Hi Alan:
A couple of thoughts: 1. I highly recommend modifying the track so that you can remove the car easily by simply removing one bolt at the aft end of the track. See my picture below on this, my prior post, and/or as shown in the video link posted above. 2. Once the car is removed (so you don't have penetrating oil dousing your gelcoat etc) and you can remove the PVC runners, patiently apply penetrating oil (PB Blaster, Kroil, Mouse Milk or similar) to the recess / counter-bore into which the shaft seats. Do this for a period of days or even weeks. You also might try heating the entire car (with the plastic parts removed) in an oven. I probably wouldn't exceed 200 degrees F. Periodically grip the shaft with the padded jaws of Vice-Grip pliers and rotate, even if you don't perceive any movement this will assist the penetrating oil. Sooner or later, with patience, the shaft should loosen and be removable. If those measures don't work and you have access to dry ice, do the oven treatment then apply dry ice to the shaft only (thereby shrinking it dimensionally). 3. If you haven't already sourced the springs and/or runners, they are available from Euro Marine Trading (the USA Antal Dealer) USA Phone # 401 849-0060 , 62 Halsey Street, Unit M, Newport, RI 02840 USA 1. Runner Inserts are G30, 40A PVC Inserts 160 ml long (US $ 18.45 per set of two in 2017) 2. Stainless Steel Stand-Up Bracket Spring part number Y-X1041 (US $ 7.86 each in 2019) I wish you luck, Gary S. Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 On the hard in Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico
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