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Re: start stop engine
Gerhard Mueller
Bill
Perhaps you misunderstand. He is already stopping the engine by hand with the level at the injection pump. But he wants to stop the engine with the stop button at the engine panel using the stop solenoid as normal. Regarding the wire diagrams it might be he has first switched off the start switch and after that the stop button has no current anymore. So first stop the engine with the stop button and after that switch off the start switch (using the key). Perhaps you will want to take this correct procedure into your Amel documentations. Thank you. -- Gerhard Mueller Amel Sharki #60 Currently Kalamata, Greece
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Re: Amel Cdrive seal kit
JLM, Sure it is possible for a person to correctly duplicate anything, but many fail. Look how Chinese parts appear to be exactly the same, but....you know the answer. Sometimes the variance in duplication is an error, sometimes it is purposefully done to lower costs. And, how do you make the propeller shaft wear bushing? What material and what hardness do you make it out of? As you know that all seals are not equal, some harder, some softer, some with stainless steel springs, others not. The reasons I suggest Amel as a source for these parts:
Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
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Re: start stop engine
Look at this photo I just uploaded: https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/photo/83780/0?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0 Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:38 AM Gerhard Mueller via Groups.Io <carcode=me.com@groups.io> wrote: Elja
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Re: Black water comes from Onan 11 exhaust hose
Jose,
This sounds very typical of carbon buildup in the engine/exhaust. The carbon build up is a result of the generator not having enough load for long periods. Using the generator to just charge the batteries is not good for it. It needs to be run with a 70% load, so turn on other stuff like the AC and do some laundry. If not addressed this will cause issues with pistons, rings, injector and valves and can be very expensive to fix.
Remove the exhaust elbow and look inside. This will serve as your indication that the engine has excessive carbon build up, or not. Black soot is okay on the edges. But, if it appears to be caked on the sides and is impeding the flow of fumes, this is a problem. Clean or replace the elbow if needed. Hopefully this will solve your issue because this is where exhaust fumes are cooled. However, you should also look inside the exhaust manifold of the engine leading to the elbow. If you continue to find excessive carbon in this area you may have a bigger problem.
Hope this helps
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama www.creampuff.us
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Re: Black water comes from Onan 11 exhaust hose
Jose Alegria
Mark and Mike
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
This happens in the first 15-30 minutes running, after this is almost imperceptible. The model is an Onan 11 Kw with 1200 hours serviced at 1000 hours at s amel 55#003 But the interesting is: come more black color from water colling hose than from fume hose!... Thanks
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Re: Maintenance costs for Amel yachts
Orion,
I have 10 years of total expenses posted on our circumnavigation blog at www.svbebe.com. Click on the COSTS tab. --
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Re: Maintenance costs for Amel yachts
Hi John are you staying at Brunswick landing Marina l miss the free beer! Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54 #101
Grenada
-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <john.biohead@...> To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Group Moderators <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io> Sent: Thu, Aug 22, 2019 10:45 am Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Maintenance costs for Amel yachts Hello Orion,
Welcome to the group. To go straight to your question; no, Amels are not more expensive than other yachts in a similar class. (I can speak authoritatively for Super Maramus and Santorins) Yes they are quirky....but in a functional way that you will appreciate. My experience with my SM, Annie, a 1990 model has been entirely positive. Yes some stuff breaks, but I don't think I have spent any real money on "broken" items. I did update the electronics, add a second autopilot and solar arch. Those cost a bit, but I consider them wants not needs. My insurance wanted the standing rig updated so I had it replaced after I purchased the vessel, cost would be the same for any vessel in the same class.
I probably could have done none of the above and still had a near perfect sailing yacht. My equipment failure list in the last three years and 13000 NM sailing is a bilge pump(Amel rebuild kit $100) SW impeller on main engine...failed and melted the muffler(most SMs have a SS muffler I had plastic) repair cost $34 + $300, genoa sail seam split at top of sail 2x, cost about $150 to repair each time, mainsail furler gears ($23 for gears $70 for machine shop to get the old gear out.), frig compressor, replaced with off the shelf bolt in upgrade($800). Generator SW impeller ($34) My boat came with set of spare sails so no down time. Most recently the genoa sheet car failed. Replacement cost is between $125(Ebay) and $450(Antal) for a replacement. Not too bad for three years and near constant sailing.
My Amel Journey:
I planned for my "big boat" purchase for several years before committing. I remember I had read about Amels at one point. The author thought they were innovative, but too complicated to be practical...so I didn't pursue them further. But I know now that God and Henri have mysterious ways. Years later on one particular afternoon I took a friend to the hospital for an outpatient procedure. I had a couple of hours to kill while waiting and went for a walk at the local marina. There I saw a strikingly beautiful boat. ...you know the saying "one look is all it took." I looked up the boat, she was an Amel 64...priced in the "double digits" at the time...you know price is 1.5M . No I could not afford that Amel, but it completely rearranged my view of the brand stuck in my head.
A year or two later I was zeroing in on buying an Irwin 68 when just like you I too discovered SV Delos on YouTube. Looking at Delos I thought wow that is one cool boat....didn't pick up on it being an Amel for a little while. I think it was some episode where Brian was recounting discovering Delos where I realized what Delos was.. Like me he said he was hooked at the first glance. I started researching the brand with more diligence and became really impressed. Just like you, I joined the Amel Owners Forum as it was called at the time, and was referred to a fellow named Joel Potter. He was the Amel dealer/broker for North America. I called him and we talked for over two hours. He did not have an Amel that met my price point but still gave me hours of advice and pointers on what to look for. He even gave me inside info on Amel's I was interested in...he is a resource and a really good guy to talk to.
The first Amel I saw in the flesh was in Virginia. I had already arranged to look at an SM in Portugal but my GF at the time thought I was crazy to think about flying to the EU and buying a boat I had never seen. We found a boat for sale in VA that was priced too high for me but was in brokerage and available to visit. We took a weekend and drove up to look at it. Needless to say the GF was blown away...me I was just saying yes...this is what I want. The boat was in OK condition but had a few issues. It wasn't the right one for me BUT it confirmed everything I thought I knew about Amels. That weekend we looked at Passports, Island Packets, Freedoms, a Manson, a Cabo, a couple of Hans Christians, and....yes a Beneteau. Nothing compared to that Amel. The very nice broker who gave us the boat show saw our feelings and admitted to us...once you see the Amel you are done.
So my advice: Like you, I somewhat superficially fixated on the Delos model, the SM2K. They were made from 1999 to 2005. Amel started making Super Maramus in 1989. I would not restrict myself to considering just the later years. I got a good deal on Annie...the previous owner's offered price made me take a look at her even though she was an older SM, and at the time not in my window of consideration. She was perfect. Now after a few years and hanging out with other SM owners most with newer models, I am actually happy that I bought Annie and not a newer SM. She retains more of the expedition yacht features than the later SMs and in my opinion has more character inside....wood floors, ceiling trim boards, older more robust furling mechanisms...and some cool sailing history.
That is another thing you get with an Amel. You are the custodian/care taker of the boat as much as you are the owner. I still maintain correspondence with the previous owners who sailed Annie for 16 years...and they maintain contact with the original owner. I email them from time to time with pictures of the boat and us frolicking. When I sail into Le Marin and talk to Alban at the Amel service center, he knows the boat and maintains a record of the entire history of the vessel. Every time I come back he asks me what I have done with the boat since we last met. Remember now this is a 30 year old vessel ...and he still maintains a file on her. The Amel community is very engaging and attentive.
Well my email is getting too long. In closing , yes you are making an excellent choice to consider Amel. The SM was made without significant changes for 16 years. It is a proven design and to date none have ever been lost at sea. Also, by now probably most have circumnavigated. Find that in any other brand. There are a ton of resources and people to support you should you buy an Amel. In addition to Joel Potter, I suggest you speak to Bill Rouse who runs this Group and also an Amel yacht centric consulting business. He is an invaluable resource now and when you are ready to purchase.
Regards, John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Brunswick GA
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 8:43 AM Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:
Hello everyone, I am new to the site and thank you to the moderators for letting me join this group.
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Re: Black water comes from Onan 11 exhaust hose
I would check the mixing elbow for carbon build up. Take it off and chip out the build up. Then check the whole exhaust system. Pretty sure that low load running ie battery charging will cause this build up.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Nick Amelia in the Ionian AML 54-019
On 22 Aug 2019, at 16:58, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:
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Re: Maintenance costs for Amel yachts
John Clark
I concur.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:34 AM Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:
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Re: Maintenance costs for Amel yachts
John Clark
Hello Orion, Welcome to the group. To go straight to your question; no, Amels are not more expensive than other yachts in a similar class. (I can speak authoritatively for Super Maramus and Santorins) Yes they are quirky....but in a functional way that you will appreciate. My experience with my SM, Annie, a 1990 model has been entirely positive. Yes some stuff breaks, but I don't think I have spent any real money on "broken" items. I did update the electronics, add a second autopilot and solar arch. Those cost a bit, but I consider them wants not needs. My insurance wanted the standing rig updated so I had it replaced after I purchased the vessel, cost would be the same for any vessel in the same class. I probably could have done none of the above and still had a near perfect sailing yacht. My equipment failure list in the last three years and 13000 NM sailing is a bilge pump(Amel rebuild kit $100) SW impeller on main engine...failed and melted the muffler(most SMs have a SS muffler I had plastic) repair cost $34 + $300, genoa sail seam split at top of sail 2x, cost about $150 to repair each time, mainsail furler gears ($23 for gears $70 for machine shop to get the old gear out.), frig compressor, replaced with off the shelf bolt in upgrade($800). Generator SW impeller ($34) My boat came with set of spare sails so no down time. Most recently the genoa sheet car failed. Replacement cost is between $125(Ebay) and $450(Antal) for a replacement. Not too bad for three years and near constant sailing. My Amel Journey: I planned for my "big boat" purchase for several years before committing. I remember I had read about Amels at one point. The author thought they were innovative, but too complicated to be practical...so I didn't pursue them further. But I know now that God and Henri have mysterious ways. Years later on one particular afternoon I took a friend to the hospital for an outpatient procedure. I had a couple of hours to kill while waiting and went for a walk at the local marina. There I saw a strikingly beautiful boat. ...you know the saying "one look is all it took." I looked up the boat, she was an Amel 64...priced in the "double digits" at the time...you know price is 1.5M . No I could not afford that Amel, but it completely rearranged my view of the brand stuck in my head. A year or two later I was zeroing in on buying an Irwin 68 when just like you I too discovered SV Delos on YouTube. Looking at Delos I thought wow that is one cool boat....didn't pick up on it being an Amel for a little while. I think it was some episode where Brian was recounting discovering Delos where I realized what Delos was.. Like me he said he was hooked at the first glance. I started researching the brand with more diligence and became really impressed. Just like you, I joined the Amel Owners Forum as it was called at the time, and was referred to a fellow named Joel Potter. He was the Amel dealer/broker for North America. I called him and we talked for over two hours. He did not have an Amel that met my price point but still gave me hours of advice and pointers on what to look for. He even gave me inside info on Amel's I was interested in...he is a resource and a really good guy to talk to. The first Amel I saw in the flesh was in Virginia. I had already arranged to look at an SM in Portugal but my GF at the time thought I was crazy to think about flying to the EU and buying a boat I had never seen. We found a boat for sale in VA that was priced too high for me but was in brokerage and available to visit. We took a weekend and drove up to look at it. Needless to say the GF was blown away...me I was just saying yes...this is what I want. The boat was in OK condition but had a few issues. It wasn't the right one for me BUT it confirmed everything I thought I knew about Amels. That weekend we looked at Passports, Island Packets, Freedoms, a Manson, a Cabo, a couple of Hans Christians, and....yes a Beneteau. Nothing compared to that Amel. The very nice broker who gave us the boat show saw our feelings and admitted to us...once you see the Amel you are done. So my advice: Like you, I somewhat superficially fixated on the Delos model, the SM2K. They were made from 1999 to 2005. Amel started making Super Maramus in 1989. I would not restrict myself to considering just the later years. I got a good deal on Annie...the previous owner's offered price made me take a look at her even though she was an older SM, and at the time not in my window of consideration. She was perfect. Now after a few years and hanging out with other SM owners most with newer models, I am actually happy that I bought Annie and not a newer SM. She retains more of the expedition yacht features than the later SMs and in my opinion has more character inside....wood floors, ceiling trim boards, older more robust furling mechanisms...and some cool sailing history. That is another thing you get with an Amel. You are the custodian/care taker of the boat as much as you are the owner. I still maintain correspondence with the previous owners who sailed Annie for 16 years...and they maintain contact with the original owner. I email them from time to time with pictures of the boat and us frolicking. When I sail into Le Marin and talk to Alban at the Amel service center, he knows the boat and maintains a record of the entire history of the vessel. Every time I come back he asks me what I have done with the boat since we last met. Remember now this is a 30 year old vessel ...and he still maintains a file on her. The Amel community is very engaging and attentive. Well my email is getting too long. In closing , yes you are making an excellent choice to consider Amel. The SM was made without significant changes for 16 years. It is a proven design and to date none have ever been lost at sea. Also, by now probably most have circumnavigated. Find that in any other brand. There are a ton of resources and people to support you should you buy an Amel. In addition to Joel Potter, I suggest you speak to Bill Rouse who runs this Group and also an Amel yacht centric consulting business. He is an invaluable resource now and when you are ready to purchase. Regards, John Clark SV Annie SM 37 Brunswick GA
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 8:43 AM Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote: Hello everyone, I am new to the site and thank you to the moderators for letting me join this group.
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Re: start stop engine
Gerhard Mueller
Elja
I have printed out and given him the wire diagrams of his Yanmar engine. I guess he has switched off the starter switch and so the stop switch has no current anymore. At last that shows the diagrams. -- Gerhard Mueller Amel Sharki #60 Currently Kalamata, Greece
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Re: Maintenance costs for Amel yachts
Hello, I am an owner of an Amel 55 2013 for the last 16 months and previously for the last 16 years owned 4 other larger boats. All boats can be expensive to maintain and have a basic maintenance requirement. Amel from my experience is an extremely well founded and produced boat, better than most and certainly one of the best all time blue water cruisers. If you were to buy, in my opinion a well maintained, free of issues and well loved Amel SM 54 or 55 you would enjoy its performance and simply need to keep her loved and well maintained. Use an excellent surveyor that knows Amel as a specialty
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Best regards, Paul - Fortuna II 55#17
On 22 Aug 2019, at 5:45 am, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:
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Re: Black water comes from Onan 11 exhaust hose
Hello Jose.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
We had similar carbon discharge from the Onan during spring start up, powder as well as chunks of carbon. Ultimately the Onan would not start. Opening up the exhaust mixing elbow revealed huge carbon buildup leaving only about 1 cm diameter air passage for the exhaust. Not at all uncommon when marine diesels are not run periodically under high load. That would be the first place I would look. Mike Ondra Aletes SM 240 Chesapeake
On Aug 22, 2019, at 8:45 AM, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:
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Re: Main sail Outhaul motor/gearbox failed A54
Scott SV Tengah
My old outhaul gearbox came with greasing points and it looked like it was that way from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, the bulbous cover that encapsulates the outhaul gearbox and motor is riveted on, so it's not designed for you to remove and service it. By the time I opened it, it was too late. I see that some of the older 54s have the outhaul gearbox/motor exposed, similar to the SMs.
When I replaced the bulbous cover, I made two changes: 1) Drilled a few holes in the bottom so that water could drain out. Even if the cover is waterproof, water will enter from the vertical drive shaft and there isn't a way for it to get out. It became a saltwater bathtub. 2) Rather than use rivets, I got some tef-gel, liberally coated some stainless screws and screwed the cover back on. I know stainless screws on the aluminum boom isn't ideal, but I've been monitoring it and it seems the tef-gel is doing its job. FYI, my new gearbox was not painted. That is, unless they painted it metal colored? :) And as I mentioned, it appears to be sealed and filled with gear oil. -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: Black water comes from Onan 11 exhaust hose
Jose,
Can you give more information? Is it when you start the Onan or all the time? Is it oily or carbon? What model Onan and boat is this on? How you done anything to troubleshoot and if so what were your findings?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama www.creampuff.us
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jose Alegria
Dear AMEL Group / Owners
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Re: Main sail Outhaul motor/gearbox failed A54
Hi Mohammad, I changed mine last year whilst in Albania, the worm gear inside the gear box stripped when we were in Croatia. Amel Hyeres sent me a complete new gear box and I followed the forum post instructions by Alexandre to remove the old box. I could not get anyone to help me until I got to Albania, couple of trawler mechanics who understood about using a jack braced on the deck to push the drive pin out which was really seized into the box. The old box was still full of the original grease so no need to service your new box. The old box had a good paint job/powder coating, the new box has a poor quality paint finish. Whilst here in Antibes I am getting a paint mixed and then getting some spray can attachments to touch up all my small spots on the mast and boom that have started to bubble. I will also re-paint the boom gear box - sealer then primer and then top coat. I am collecting this painting gear this later today and will send you the details. Best Regards Barry and Penny "Lady Penelope II" Amel. 54. #17 Antibes, France
On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 3:16:42 PM GMT+2, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
Thanks Olivier for you very clear explanation. Possibly the worm and bronze gears inside the gearbox are jammed for two reasons: The bronze gear is very worn...AND...the helmsperson jammed the outhaul car against the track end-stop. I am fairly sure that you will need a gearbox overhaul or replacement, but you might try removing the end-stop to reduce the jammed pressure on the gears. Be careful not to operate the car too far forward, jamming it against the stop, or beyond the stop. With a worn bronze gear, this jamming will lock the gearbox. I have seen this happen on 54s and even a 2 year old 55. Be especially cautious with new crew as they will almost always misuse/abuse this. SM owners may not understand this, but most of this issue is because of a change in gearboxes and motors which is sleeker and better looking, but apparently doesn't take the accidental misuse/abuse that a SM will take. But, of course, I have also seen accidental misuse kill a SM gearbox. Best, CW Bill Rouse Yacht School - Supporting Amel Owners www.YachtSchool.us 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970 On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 3:40 AM Beaute Olivier via Groups.Io <atlanticyachtsurvey=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Maintenance costs for Amel yachts
The first and best step to buy an amel is not to save the cost for an appraiser who is really familiar with Amel ( atlantic Yachtservey oliver Beteue Group Member) You will learn more about an Amel in 2 days than you find out in 5 years alone. Maintenance is not more expensive ( SM ) than with other ships of this size, and Amel still has the important parts for the SM in stock. In addition, this group helps to find bugs quickly and gives advice to repair them. we have our SM BJ 1998 now 5 years and had no special problems. Let's get a pump for the climate situation times the AP but these are things that happen to you on every ship at the age of 20 Greetings SM Balu s. 222 Von meinem iPhone gesendet
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Re: Maintenance costs for Amel yachts
Orion,
I think you will find the cost and maintenance on Amel boats to be considerably less than others, especially those you mention, Moody and Oyster. When reading this forum, a person needs to keep in mind there are over 1,000 participants and for the most part very few serious complaints about our vessels. All boats will break. The question you should ask yourself is how easy it is to fix. A stand up engine room with access to all sides of both the engine and genset, access to all electronics and steering components, a bow-thruster than can be service while the vessel in the water, a sea-chest to minimize through-hulls and watertight compartments are some of the features that make Amel such attractive boats for serious world cruisers. In addition, the support we receive from Amel for parts is second to none. They are a first-class operation.
Perhaps you should research further. For example, take a look at the Pacific Puddle Jump recaps. http://www.pacificpuddlejump.com/articles.html They list all the boats and the things that broke during the ocean crossing. An example of an Oyster: failures of Autohelm; seacock; spin pole track; waterpump; mainsail clew shackle failed. Three of these are pretty serious.
High cost of maintenance is a given for ALL boats. They are expensive high maintenance divas. Bill Rouse posted an entire budget for a 10 year circumnavigation on his Amel documenting every penny spent. I challenge you to find any other brand of vessel on a 10-year voyage that was meticulously maintained for an average of $9,000 per year. http://svbebe.blogspot.com/p/costs.html
I really do not understand how you are coming to the conclusion Amel boats have higher cost of maintenance and downtime.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama www.creampuff.us
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Orion Martin
Hello everyone, I am new to the site and thank you to the
moderators for letting me join this group.
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Re: Main sail Outhaul motor/gearbox failed A54
Thanks Olivier for you very clear explanation. Possibly the worm and bronze gears inside the gearbox are jammed for two reasons: The bronze gear is very worn...AND...the helmsperson jammed the outhaul car against the track end-stop. I am fairly sure that you will need a gearbox overhaul or replacement, but you might try removing the end-stop to reduce the jammed pressure on the gears. Be careful not to operate the car too far forward, jamming it against the stop, or beyond the stop. With a worn bronze gear, this jamming will lock the gearbox. I have seen this happen on 54s and even a 2 year old 55. Be especially cautious with new crew as they will almost always misuse/abuse this. SM owners may not understand this, but most of this issue is because of a change in gearboxes and motors which is sleeker and better looking, but apparently doesn't take the accidental misuse/abuse that a SM will take. But, of course, I have also seen accidental misuse kill a SM gearbox. Best, CW Bill Rouse Yacht School - Supporting Amel Owners www.YachtSchool.us 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 3:40 AM Beaute Olivier via Groups.Io <atlanticyachtsurvey=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Maintenance costs for Amel yachts
Ian Park
Hi and welcome to the group.
Yes, reading the posts gives the impression that AMELs are a constant maintenance boat. Not true. It is just the helpful nature of this particular group that folk feel they always get instant first class help if a problem occurs or a maintenance job comes up they haven’t attempted themselves before. Others will give you the same advice, when choosing an Amel get someone who really knows the boat to survey it. (I didn’t but have been lucky). Yes, the boat is very different to other boats so owners do ask a lot of questions. I looked at an Oyster 435 before got my Santorin. I’ve got much the better boat. You will spend at least two years really getting to know the systems, but then a good annual maintenance schedule will give you the ultimate short handed ocean cruiser around (personal opinion after 5 years ownership). Best of luck with your plans
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