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Re: Lifting an engine using a beam on cockpit seats

CW Bill Rouse
 

Alex,

I am sure that you are correct. I also expect that some seats will take the weight and others will not; and some people spread the weight out on the seats, and others do not.

The point I was trying to make was I saw a delaminated seat in exactly the spot where a beam would have rested. I couldn't figure out why it delaminated, now I am fairly certain why. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 4:30 PM Alejandro Paquin <alex.paquin@...> wrote:
Hell Bill, I agree the seats are not suitable support for lifting the engine out of the engine compartment, BUT you can use the surface around the Lewmar winches in the cockpit to place a beam, if you put suitable wood supports and spead the weight over a larger area and secure the beam so it won´t move.
Reggards
--
Alex Paquin
S/V " SIMPATICO"
Amel Maramu
Hull #94, 1981

Re: Bow Thruster Service

Peter Buckley
 

Hi All,

I had an issue with the bow thruster on my Mango. I made a jacking block similar to the Amel one and tried in vain to move it. The yacht was in the water so trying to rotate from the water was difficult. I tried everything until I spent $70+ Aust on a product called Yield. I had tried every other product with no luck. 4 squirts of Yield and they released from each other. Great product……

Try that if you can source it where you are.

Regards

Peter

-- 
Peter Buckley

83 Twelfth Avenue
Raymond Island VIC 3880

Phone: 0428 427 786

Email: carhartt@...


From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 07:46:50 -0500
To: <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow Thruster Service

JL Mertz, CottonBay:

Yes, it should be "easy."

There are 4 Allen head bolts on most SN & SMs, but in later model SMs, 2 bolts. It is always easy if the bow thruster is serviced correctly, with seal replacement when needed, and never left DOWN while sailing. 

But, if you don't follow the above, you'll be lucky if it's easy. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 12:35 AM jlm@... <jlm@...> wrote:

Hello,

if the 4 bolts that hold the bow thruster are out it should be easy,

Drive the bow thruster simply go down, then from the outside of the boat rotate the bow thruster, possibly by a movement rotation back and forth. Always sweet ...

JL Mertz

CottonBay

Le 28/08/2019 à 20:33, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io a écrit :
Bill,
Would a heatgun provide enoughheat without affecting the FRP?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:21 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Bernd,

You should be very, very careful with heat because the Bow Thruster Tube and case is made of GRP, not metal. 

The contact point is Cast Iron to the GRP tube. The problem is a result of NOT replacing the lip-seal and foam donuts, and possibly leaving the bow thruster down while sailing or motoring. Saltwater has passed through the seals and has caused corrosion on the electric motor base which is made of Cast Iron. This corrosion (Iron Oxidation) has reduced the size of the opening for the tube at the base of the motor. Your photos show that this has been more than a little saltwater over a long time, possibly months/years. It is going to be very difficult to separate the tube from the motor base. You will need the tool designed by Amel, plenty of penetrating fluid and 3-4 days of constant pressure to cause separation. You can use some light tapping or vibration on the cast iron motor base intermittently while constant pressure is applied with the special tool. But take care not to strile the base too hard because it is made of cast iron.

<image.png>
I recommend that you closely check the lower bearing on the electric motor because I suspect it is also damaged.

In the future, replace the seals every 2 years...also replace the 0.3 liters of 80/90 Gear Oil when you replace the seals. Always use plenty of waterproof grease at the contact points of the tube and motor base.

This is the normal materials needed for service every 2 years (contact SAV"at"Amel.fr):
<image.png>
You will certainly get other advice, but I firmly believe that you will not get better advice.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:03 PM Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
A little heat?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 28, 2019, at 9:44 AM, "jlm@..." <jlm@...> wrote:

Hi !

I had the  same problem ... You need a lot of patience, mutch WD40 and patience, do not forcing, do not break the threads, the contact is bronze on stainless  ...

I needed 2 days ...

good luck

JLM

CottonBay

Hold time 2 or 3 days with WD40, WD40 and much

Le 28/08/2019 à 18:35, Bernd Spanner a écrit :
Hello,
I wanted to change the seal on the bow thruster today.
Unforunately after removing the 4 screws I could not get the shaft disconnected. It’s badly rusted all over. Any ideas how I can loosen it?? Already used some wd40 & caramba to get it loose.... no success 
Pics attached
Best regards, 
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com

Re: Lifting an engine using a beam on cockpit seats

Alejandro Paquin
 

Hell Bill, I agree the seats are not suitable support for lifting the engine out of the engine compartment, BUT you can use the surface around the Lewmar winches in the cockpit to place a beam, if you put suitable wood supports and spead the weight over a larger area and secure the beam so it won´t move.
Reggards
--
Alex Paquin
S/V " SIMPATICO"
Amel Maramu
Hull #94, 1981
Re: Maramu weight for lift out

smiles bernard
 

Thanks Christian that’s a grey help
All the best
Miles


On 29 Aug 2019, at 11:02, christian alby via Groups.Io <calbyy@...> wrote:

ours weighed 14 tons last time (May 2019) lifted by Rolling gear with weight cells on 4 points; note weight cells were not certified therefore error rate + or - 10% applies to be on sage side.
had about 350 L diesel, 100 L water & full supplies, Tools & cruising paraphrenalia on board
hope this helps 

christian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Canet Roussillon

Christian Alby - France home fixe +33 (0)5 34 39 06 02 home Internet +33 (0)9 60 37 22 72 mobile +33 (0)6 42 69 07 80


Le jeudi 29 août 2019 à 05:25:58 UTC−4, smiles bernard via Groups.Io <smilesbernard@...> a écrit :


Hi there
I'm trying to orgainse a haul out in the UK for our 1985 Maramu 46
I believe displacement is 12T but would like to know what total weight might be
Has anyone lifted and weighed?
I'll be dropping all water but keeping the diesel tank full to prevent condensation
The yard I have approached close to home believe she might be too heavy so info very much appreciated 
Many thanks in advance
Miles
Re: Lifting an engine using a beam on cockpit seats

smiles bernard
 

Likewise we did not use the seats but the coaming around the cockpit where winches are located 
All the best 
Miles 


On 29 Aug 2019, at 19:55, Dan <danny.rico@...> wrote:

400 lb pound of the boom (Northern lights). 
That’s my dad in the back ground helping me out. 
<image2.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
Re: Lifting an engine using a beam on cockpit seats

Dan
 

400 lb pound of the boom (Northern lights). 
That’s my dad in the back ground helping me out. 
image2.jpeg
image1.jpeg
Re: In Martinique looking at Amels

karkauai
 

Hi Kelly and Daren!!!  WooHooo!!! Hope your deal goes through!  Looking forward to hooking up again ?this winter?.


Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Aug 28, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Hi Kelly and Darren,

I am currently looking at Amels with a view to purchase in the next two years. I have seen two SMs advertised in Martinique. Any information you think would be relevant concerning purchasing in this area would be most appreciated.

Re: Lifting an engine using a beam on cockpit seats

Paul Brown
 

G’day Mark, can I please ask how many hours had your motor done and what year launched? This is to give me an indication on what perhaps to expect

Kind regards Paul - Fortuna II 55#17


On 29 Aug 2019, at 6:35 pm, Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:

I just replaced my engine mounts and the goddamn pain-in-the-ass bloody Vetus coupling a few weeks ago so I have some recent experience with this topic.  I considered using the cockpit coamings as the base for my lifting beam as they are flat and obviously strong.  However, it would have increased the span of the beam significantly so instead I used a 2 x 6 inch beam placed across the seats to lift the engine.  I did make crossmembers for each side of the beam to spread the load out a bit more across the seat.  Here are some pics of the beam and crossmembers:

<IMG_20190719_081959883.jpg><IMG_20190721_131727045_HDR.jpg><IMG_20190718_154057922 _1_.jpg><IMG_20190718_154108781.jpg>

The dry weight of a Yanmar 4JH3-HTE is only about 500lbs.  I removed both alternators, intercooler and exhaust elbow before lifting it so even with all the fluids added in, it likely weighed less than that so you are looking at maybe 250 lbs per side.  Spread that load over approximately 50 square inches and that is only 5psi of force so I was not too concerned.  The first time I lifted the engine completely I barely lifted it off the frame and looked and listened for any sign of cracking or deflecting and did not see any.  

I am certainly NOT saying that doing something like this can't cause problems but I can say that in my case with my setup and preparation of the engine (removing some of the weight), that it did not.  I still have the whole lifting setup on the boat so if anyone in the Chesapeake Bay area wants to borrow it in the next year or so, shoot me an email and you are welcome to.  I will need it back as I intend to re-align the engine after a 100 hours or so assuming that the mounts will settle a bit.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: Lifting an engine using a beam on cockpit seats

Mark McGovern
 

I just replaced my engine mounts and the goddamn pain-in-the-ass bloody Vetus coupling a few weeks ago so I have some recent experience with this topic.  I considered using the cockpit coamings as the base for my lifting beam as they are flat and obviously strong.  However, it would have increased the span of the beam significantly so instead I used a 2 x 6 inch beam placed across the seats to lift the engine.  I did make crossmembers for each side of the beam to spread the load out a bit more across the seat.  Here are some pics of the beam and crossmembers:



The dry weight of a Yanmar 4JH3-HTE is only about 500lbs.  I removed both alternators, intercooler and exhaust elbow before lifting it so even with all the fluids added in, it likely weighed less than that so you are looking at maybe 250 lbs per side.  Spread that load over approximately 50 square inches and that is only 5psi of force so I was not too concerned.  The first time I lifted the engine completely I barely lifted it off the frame and looked and listened for any sign of cracking or deflecting and did not see any.  

I am certainly NOT saying that doing something like this can't cause problems but I can say that in my case with my setup and preparation of the engine (removing some of the weight), that it did not.  I still have the whole lifting setup on the boat so if anyone in the Chesapeake Bay area wants to borrow it in the next year or so, shoot me an email and you are welcome to.  I will need it back as I intend to re-align the engine after a 100 hours or so assuming that the mounts will settle a bit.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA
Re: Bow Thruster Service

CW Bill Rouse
 

JLM,

Yes, it usually is easy, but not, if it is operated incorrectly and/or NOT maintained.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 9:37 AM jlm@... <jlm@...> wrote:

Bill,

Bernd, removed the 4 screws I so it is easy !
Best regards,

CottonBay

JLM

Le 29/08/2019 à 14:46, CW Bill Rouse a écrit :

JL Mertz, CottonBay:

Yes, it should be "easy."

There are 4 Allen head bolts on most SN & SMs, but in later model SMs, 2 bolts. It is always easy if the bow thruster is serviced correctly, with seal replacement when needed, and never left DOWN while sailing. 

But, if you don't follow the above, you'll be lucky if it's easy. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 12:35 AM jlm@... <jlm@...> wrote:

Hello,

if the 4 bolts that hold the bow thruster are out it should be easy,

Drive the bow thruster simply go down, then from the outside of the boat rotate the bow thruster, possibly by a movement rotation back and forth. Always sweet ...

JL Mertz

CottonBay

Le 28/08/2019 à 20:33, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io a écrit :
Bill,
Would a heatgun provide enoughheat without affecting the FRP?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:21 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Bernd,

You should be very, very careful with heat because the Bow Thruster Tube and case is made of GRP, not metal. 

The contact point is Cast Iron to the GRP tube. The problem is a result of NOT replacing the lip-seal and foam donuts, and possibly leaving the bow thruster down while sailing or motoring. Saltwater has passed through the seals and has caused corrosion on the electric motor base which is made of Cast Iron. This corrosion (Iron Oxidation) has reduced the size of the opening for the tube at the base of the motor. Your photos show that this has been more than a little saltwater over a long time, possibly months/years. It is going to be very difficult to separate the tube from the motor base. You will need the tool designed by Amel, plenty of penetrating fluid and 3-4 days of constant pressure to cause separation. You can use some light tapping or vibration on the cast iron motor base intermittently while constant pressure is applied with the special tool. But take care not to strile the base too hard because it is made of cast iron.

<image.png>
I recommend that you closely check the lower bearing on the electric motor because I suspect it is also damaged.

In the future, replace the seals every 2 years...also replace the 0.3 liters of 80/90 Gear Oil when you replace the seals. Always use plenty of waterproof grease at the contact points of the tube and motor base.

This is the normal materials needed for service every 2 years (contact SAV"at"Amel.fr):
<image.png>
You will certainly get other advice, but I firmly believe that you will not get better advice.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:03 PM Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
A little heat?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 28, 2019, at 9:44 AM, "jlm@..." <jlm@...> wrote:

Hi !

I had the  same problem ... You need a lot of patience, mutch WD40 and patience, do not forcing, do not break the threads, the contact is bronze on stainless  ...

I needed 2 days ...

good luck

JLM

CottonBay

Hold time 2 or 3 days with WD40, WD40 and much

Le 28/08/2019 à 18:35, Bernd Spanner a écrit :
Hello,
I wanted to change the seal on the bow thruster today.
Unforunately after removing the 4 screws I could not get the shaft disconnected. It’s badly rusted all over. Any ideas how I can loosen it?? Already used some wd40 & caramba to get it loose.... no success 
Pics attached
Best regards, 
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com

Re: Lift the Perkins 4236 on a Mango

Dan Wilcox
 

I recently swapped out my Perkins Prima M80T for a Beta Marine 85.  I used the following engine support bar.

Inline image

It spans perfectly across the seats of a Super Maramu.

As far as the Beta goes, Isolated ground, no computer, super quiet, no vibration, very fuel efficient (1,800rpm = 7.2 knts), and plenty of torque.  We are extremely happy with it after running for 150 hours this summer so far.

Thanks, Dan
SV Feierabend SM#86

On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 07:37:05 AM PDT, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:


Frederic,

    I changed the original Amel mounts on my 1987 Maramu with a 4-154 Perkins this past June.   I attached the main haylard, the mizzen staysail halyard and a backup line looped over the mizzen spreaders to the end of the main boom and then used my HD Harken main sheet to do the actual lifting between the boom and the engine, running the tail to a winch on the mizzen mast.  A single haylard in theory could easily support the engine but it only takes a small amount of time to add more support and you do not want to drop an engine.  I also added a safety line for the lift between the boom and the engine which I adjusted at regular intervals going up and down.   A chain hoist if you have one is a great tool to use as was suggested.  The engine lifted easily and was no problem to reposition on my boat.  I did not need to remove the engine hatch or anything else major, great design work by Amel for this eventuality.  I also replaced all of the isolation dampers in the Vetus coupling.  The driveline is super smooth now, no vibration at all.  Despite this I checked the alignment again at 50 hours and as suspected the engine had settled a bit on the new mounts which is normal based on the many other mounts I have changed.  Best of luck with your project.  
James
SV Sueno, 1987 Maramu #220
Budva, Montenegro


On Aug 29, 2019 11:59 AM, Frederic F <fgf@...> wrote:
Hi Amelowners,

we intend to change the engine mountings on our Perkins 4236 and did order the rubber parts from Amel. Now we need to lift the engine to get the old ones out and the new rubber underneath. Has anyone of you an idea whats the most pleasant way to lift the engine? We thought to use a pulley or something similar. Would be really great if anyone of you has some tips for us.

Thank you in advance.

Best,
Family Fießer 
Mango #14

Re: Bow Thruster Service

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Bill,

Bernd, removed the 4 screws I so it is easy !
Best regards,

CottonBay

JLM

Le 29/08/2019 à 14:46, CW Bill Rouse a écrit :

JL Mertz, CottonBay:

Yes, it should be "easy."

There are 4 Allen head bolts on most SN & SMs, but in later model SMs, 2 bolts. It is always easy if the bow thruster is serviced correctly, with seal replacement when needed, and never left DOWN while sailing. 

But, if you don't follow the above, you'll be lucky if it's easy. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 12:35 AM jlm@... <jlm@...> wrote:

Hello,

if the 4 bolts that hold the bow thruster are out it should be easy,

Drive the bow thruster simply go down, then from the outside of the boat rotate the bow thruster, possibly by a movement rotation back and forth. Always sweet ...

JL Mertz

CottonBay

Le 28/08/2019 à 20:33, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io a écrit :
Bill,
Would a heatgun provide enoughheat without affecting the FRP?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:21 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Bernd,

You should be very, very careful with heat because the Bow Thruster Tube and case is made of GRP, not metal. 

The contact point is Cast Iron to the GRP tube. The problem is a result of NOT replacing the lip-seal and foam donuts, and possibly leaving the bow thruster down while sailing or motoring. Saltwater has passed through the seals and has caused corrosion on the electric motor base which is made of Cast Iron. This corrosion (Iron Oxidation) has reduced the size of the opening for the tube at the base of the motor. Your photos show that this has been more than a little saltwater over a long time, possibly months/years. It is going to be very difficult to separate the tube from the motor base. You will need the tool designed by Amel, plenty of penetrating fluid and 3-4 days of constant pressure to cause separation. You can use some light tapping or vibration on the cast iron motor base intermittently while constant pressure is applied with the special tool. But take care not to strile the base too hard because it is made of cast iron.

<image.png>
I recommend that you closely check the lower bearing on the electric motor because I suspect it is also damaged.

In the future, replace the seals every 2 years...also replace the 0.3 liters of 80/90 Gear Oil when you replace the seals. Always use plenty of waterproof grease at the contact points of the tube and motor base.

This is the normal materials needed for service every 2 years (contact SAV"at"Amel.fr):
<image.png>
You will certainly get other advice, but I firmly believe that you will not get better advice.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:03 PM Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
A little heat?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 28, 2019, at 9:44 AM, "jlm@..." <jlm@...> wrote:

Hi !

I had the  same problem ... You need a lot of patience, mutch WD40 and patience, do not forcing, do not break the threads, the contact is bronze on stainless  ...

I needed 2 days ...

good luck

JLM

CottonBay

Hold time 2 or 3 days with WD40, WD40 and much

Le 28/08/2019 à 18:35, Bernd Spanner a écrit :
Hello,
I wanted to change the seal on the bow thruster today.
Unforunately after removing the 4 screws I could not get the shaft disconnected. It’s badly rusted all over. Any ideas how I can loosen it?? Already used some wd40 & caramba to get it loose.... no success 
Pics attached
Best regards, 
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com

Re: Lift the Perkins 4236 on a Mango

James Alton
 

Frederic,

    I changed the original Amel mounts on my 1987 Maramu with a 4-154 Perkins this past June.   I attached the main haylard, the mizzen staysail halyard and a backup line looped over the mizzen spreaders to the end of the main boom and then used my HD Harken main sheet to do the actual lifting between the boom and the engine, running the tail to a winch on the mizzen mast.  A single haylard in theory could easily support the engine but it only takes a small amount of time to add more support and you do not want to drop an engine.  I also added a safety line for the lift between the boom and the engine which I adjusted at regular intervals going up and down.   A chain hoist if you have one is a great tool to use as was suggested.  The engine lifted easily and was no problem to reposition on my boat.  I did not need to remove the engine hatch or anything else major, great design work by Amel for this eventuality.  I also replaced all of the isolation dampers in the Vetus coupling.  The driveline is super smooth now, no vibration at all.  Despite this I checked the alignment again at 50 hours and as suspected the engine had settled a bit on the new mounts which is normal based on the many other mounts I have changed.  Best of luck with your project.  
James
SV Sueno, 1987 Maramu #220
Budva, Montenegro


On Aug 29, 2019 11:59 AM, Frederic F <fgf@...> wrote:
Hi Amelowners,

we intend to change the engine mountings on our Perkins 4236 and did order the rubber parts from Amel. Now we need to lift the engine to get the old ones out and the new rubber underneath. Has anyone of you an idea whats the most pleasant way to lift the engine? We thought to use a pulley or something similar. Would be really great if anyone of you has some tips for us.

Thank you in advance.

Best,
Family Fießer 
Mango #14

Re: Lifting an engine using a beam on cockpit seats

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, I agree and would not put that kind of weigh on the seats. I placed a 4x4 across the cockpit resting on the coaming next to the winches,I further spread the load with a 2x6 under it along with padding . I used a come along to provide lift and positioned it slightly aft of the lifting point on the engine ,so it was inclined to move aft away from the trans, moved the lifting point slightly forward  to move the engine forward to reinstall.
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Aug 29, 2019 9:04 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Lifting an engine using a beam on cockpit seats #IMPORTANT

Very Interesting thread on engine lift using a beam on cockpit seats. 

I saw a SM with delaminated fiberglass on the cockpit seat exactly where a beam you describe would rest on the seat. I never connected the seat delamination to an engine lift, which I believe occurred on that SM. NOW, I DO.

I doubt the seat is designed to take significant weight. I would CAUTION this practice. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 4:57 AM christian alby via Groups.Io <calbyy=yahoo.fr@groups.io> wrote:
We did it already on our Maramu, lifting off & replacing engine afloat.
A stout piece of timber on top of engine, resting on cockpit side benches & main sheet did the trick once the engine was disconnected from its holding bolts fastenings to the support frame ...
This was the hard part 
- one nut on rear aft stb side gave poor access with the famous 1/8th of a turn with open wrench already grinded to enter space betwen batteries compartment & engine base; guess you can expect one of those
- engine base & mountings stuck by grease, & salt & whatever when trying to lift first, high resistance countered using crowbar & wooden block & wedges & sledgehammer (cautious when beating).
- removal of shaft was easy enough (4 bolts & nuts 10mm) then moved by hand; reverse to connect checking alignement respected when reinstating (clock markings on flange helped)
all makes an interesting day of work, & good Opportunity to clean Bottom & repair paint work. Satisfaction when completed - do not forget to check tightening of bolts on support frame after a while running - they come loose unless you Added loctite on threads.

Meanwhile fair winds & Following seas 

chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Canet Roussillon




Le jeudi 29 août 2019 à 05:28:30 UTC−4, smiles bernard via Groups.Io <smilesbernard=yahoo.com@groups.io> a écrit :


HI there
When we dis this on our Maramu we just put a i-Beam across the (padded) cockpit coaming and then used a lifting tackle off that 
It worked well and was very simple 
I presume the same would apply for the Mango but i'm not sure if you have the same lifting cockpit floor engine access?
All the best
M
Lifting an engine using a beam on cockpit seats

CW Bill Rouse
 

Very Interesting thread on engine lift using a beam on cockpit seats. 

I saw a SM with delaminated fiberglass on the cockpit seat exactly where a beam you describe would rest on the seat. I never connected the seat delamination to an engine lift, which I believe occurred on that SM. NOW, I DO.

I doubt the seat is designed to take significant weight. I would CAUTION this practice. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 4:57 AM christian alby via Groups.Io <calbyy=yahoo.fr@groups.io> wrote:
We did it already on our Maramu, lifting off & replacing engine afloat.
A stout piece of timber on top of engine, resting on cockpit side benches & main sheet did the trick once the engine was disconnected from its holding bolts fastenings to the support frame ...
This was the hard part 
- one nut on rear aft stb side gave poor access with the famous 1/8th of a turn with open wrench already grinded to enter space betwen batteries compartment & engine base; guess you can expect one of those
- engine base & mountings stuck by grease, & salt & whatever when trying to lift first, high resistance countered using crowbar & wooden block & wedges & sledgehammer (cautious when beating).
- removal of shaft was easy enough (4 bolts & nuts 10mm) then moved by hand; reverse to connect checking alignement respected when reinstating (clock markings on flange helped)
all makes an interesting day of work, & good Opportunity to clean Bottom & repair paint work. Satisfaction when completed - do not forget to check tightening of bolts on support frame after a while running - they come loose unless you Added loctite on threads.

Meanwhile fair winds & Following seas 

chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Canet Roussillon




Le jeudi 29 août 2019 à 05:28:30 UTC−4, smiles bernard via Groups.Io <smilesbernard=yahoo.com@groups.io> a écrit :


HI there
When we dis this on our Maramu we just put a i-Beam across the (padded) cockpit coaming and then used a lifting tackle off that 
It worked well and was very simple 
I presume the same would apply for the Mango but i'm not sure if you have the same lifting cockpit floor engine access?
All the best
M
Re: Bow Thruster Service

CW Bill Rouse
 

JL Mertz, CottonBay:

Yes, it should be "easy."

There are 4 Allen head bolts on most SN & SMs, but in later model SMs, 2 bolts. It is always easy if the bow thruster is serviced correctly, with seal replacement when needed, and never left DOWN while sailing. 

But, if you don't follow the above, you'll be lucky if it's easy. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 12:35 AM jlm@... <jlm@...> wrote:

Hello,

if the 4 bolts that hold the bow thruster are out it should be easy,

Drive the bow thruster simply go down, then from the outside of the boat rotate the bow thruster, possibly by a movement rotation back and forth. Always sweet ...

JL Mertz

CottonBay

Le 28/08/2019 à 20:33, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io a écrit :
Bill,
Would a heatgun provide enoughheat without affecting the FRP?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:21 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Bernd,

You should be very, very careful with heat because the Bow Thruster Tube and case is made of GRP, not metal. 

The contact point is Cast Iron to the GRP tube. The problem is a result of NOT replacing the lip-seal and foam donuts, and possibly leaving the bow thruster down while sailing or motoring. Saltwater has passed through the seals and has caused corrosion on the electric motor base which is made of Cast Iron. This corrosion (Iron Oxidation) has reduced the size of the opening for the tube at the base of the motor. Your photos show that this has been more than a little saltwater over a long time, possibly months/years. It is going to be very difficult to separate the tube from the motor base. You will need the tool designed by Amel, plenty of penetrating fluid and 3-4 days of constant pressure to cause separation. You can use some light tapping or vibration on the cast iron motor base intermittently while constant pressure is applied with the special tool. But take care not to strile the base too hard because it is made of cast iron.

<image.png>
I recommend that you closely check the lower bearing on the electric motor because I suspect it is also damaged.

In the future, replace the seals every 2 years...also replace the 0.3 liters of 80/90 Gear Oil when you replace the seals. Always use plenty of waterproof grease at the contact points of the tube and motor base.

This is the normal materials needed for service every 2 years (contact SAV"at"Amel.fr):
<image.png>
You will certainly get other advice, but I firmly believe that you will not get better advice.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:03 PM Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
A little heat?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 28, 2019, at 9:44 AM, "jlm@..." <jlm@...> wrote:

Hi !

I had the  same problem ... You need a lot of patience, mutch WD40 and patience, do not forcing, do not break the threads, the contact is bronze on stainless  ...

I needed 2 days ...

good luck

JLM

CottonBay

Hold time 2 or 3 days with WD40, WD40 and much

Le 28/08/2019 à 18:35, Bernd Spanner a écrit :
Hello,
I wanted to change the seal on the bow thruster today.
Unforunately after removing the 4 screws I could not get the shaft disconnected. It’s badly rusted all over. Any ideas how I can loosen it?? Already used some wd40 & caramba to get it loose.... no success 
Pics attached
Best regards, 
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com

Re: Lift the Perkins 4236 on a Mango

Bill Fletcher
 

When we removed my old Perkins they placed a beam across the boat and used a a manual chain hoist. It worked very  well. 

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 8:59 PM Frederic F <fgf@...> wrote:
Hi Amelowners,

we intend to change the engine mountings on our Perkins 4236 and did order the rubber parts from Amel. Now we need to lift the engine to get the old ones out and the new rubber underneath. Has anyone of you an idea whats the most pleasant way to lift the engine? We thought to use a pulley or something similar. Would be really great if anyone of you has some tips for us.

Thank you in advance.

Best,
Family Fießer 
Mango #14

Re: Maramu weight for lift out

christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

ours weighed 14 tons last time (May 2019) lifted by Rolling gear with weight cells on 4 points; note weight cells were not certified therefore error rate + or - 10% applies to be on sage side.
had about 350 L diesel, 100 L water & full supplies, Tools & cruising paraphrenalia on board
hope this helps 

christian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Canet Roussillon

Christian Alby - France home fixe +33 (0)5 34 39 06 02 home Internet +33 (0)9 60 37 22 72 mobile +33 (0)6 42 69 07 80


Le jeudi 29 août 2019 à 05:25:58 UTC−4, smiles bernard via Groups.Io <smilesbernard@...> a écrit :


Hi there
I'm trying to orgainse a haul out in the UK for our 1985 Maramu 46
I believe displacement is 12T but would like to know what total weight might be
Has anyone lifted and weighed?
I'll be dropping all water but keeping the diesel tank full to prevent condensation
The yard I have approached close to home believe she might be too heavy so info very much appreciated 
Many thanks in advance
Miles
Re: Lift the Perkins 4236 on a Mango

christian alby <calbyy@...>
 

We did it already on our Maramu, lifting off & replacing engine afloat.
A stout piece of timber on top of engine, resting on cockpit side benches & main sheet did the trick once the engine was disconnected from its holding bolts fastenings to the support frame ...
This was the hard part 
- one nut on rear aft stb side gave poor access with the famous 1/8th of a turn with open wrench already grinded to enter space betwen batteries compartment & engine base; guess you can expect one of those
- engine base & mountings stuck by grease, & salt & whatever when trying to lift first, high resistance countered using crowbar & wooden block & wedges & sledgehammer (cautious when beating).
- removal of shaft was easy enough (4 bolts & nuts 10mm) then moved by hand; reverse to connect checking alignement respected when reinstating (clock markings on flange helped)
all makes an interesting day of work, & good Opportunity to clean Bottom & repair paint work. Satisfaction when completed - do not forget to check tightening of bolts on support frame after a while running - they come loose unless you Added loctite on threads.

Meanwhile fair winds & Following seas 

chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Canet Roussillon




Le jeudi 29 août 2019 à 05:28:30 UTC−4, smiles bernard via Groups.Io <smilesbernard@...> a écrit :


HI there
When we dis this on our Maramu we just put a i-Beam across the (padded) cockpit coaming and then used a lifting tackle off that 
It worked well and was very simple 
I presume the same would apply for the Mango but i'm not sure if you have the same lifting cockpit floor engine access?
All the best
M
Re: Lift the Perkins 4236 on a Mango

smiles bernard
 

HI there
When we dis this on our Maramu we just put a i-Beam across the (padded) cockpit coaming and then used a lifting tackle off that 
It worked well and was very simple 
I presume the same would apply for the Mango but i'm not sure if you have the same lifting cockpit floor engine access?
All the best
M
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