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Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)
Hi Scott,
Thanks for your extensive report on the Lithium conversion. Reading your post I notice the same challenge as I've been anticipating when moving to Lithium. Basically you want the batteries to stick at 70-80% if you keep the boat on shore-power and avoid keeping the batteries at 100% for extended periods. When at anchor this is more easy as there is typically no permanent feed of power into the battery similar to shore power so the SOC will go up and down anyway. At the same time you want to avoid unnecessary cycles on the battery. There is no easy solution as ideally you want the chargers to stop charging at 80% unless there is a reason to go to 100% (i.e. start of a longer passage). At the same time you do need to feed the onboard systems even if your batteries should stop charging. Most battery chargers can also act as power-supply. So just isolating the batteries from the charger when the batteries reach 80% SOC would solve that problem. But how to handle the situation when the on-board systems require more power then the charger can supply and the "disconnect-from-shore-power" event without having a power-dip on all your on-board systems during the time it takes to re-connect the batteries. When at anchor ideally you need to anticipate when the renewable sources will no longer be able to support the on-board systems and the batteries need to brought back on-line. For the latter, as you rightfully say, you can determine the voltage the chargers need to produce to halt the charging process at 70-80% but there is no easy way to alter this voltage if you need to go to 100%. Ideally you should be able to simply activate a certain charging profile for all charging devices. I have not found a solution for this myself. Balancing the batteries is another issue as this is typically performed at 100%SOC requiring the need to occasionally push the batteries to 100%SOC. There are systems that do continuously balancing but that required the usage of individual cells (https://www.ev-power.eu/). So to me it seems the Marine industry had not yet made the full change to support Lithium batteries in the best way possible. The question is if you want to wait for that point if we will ever see it happen. By that time there may be another technology surpassing Lithium. Arno Luijten SV Luna, A54-121
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
Hi Paul,
I don't know its technical description , but mastic is a general name for a sealant ( usually clear but can be white or black) , usually in a tube, like a rubbery glue, used to bed down fixtures like hatches, windows, attachments to the deck etc.
Ian
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...>
Sent: 04 September 2019 17:35 To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io> Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] C-Drive vs Linecutter Ian and Judy
What is Mastic?
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259
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Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)
The Victron isolation transformer does not change frequency. It only up or down converts Voltage.
It works great! Theo s/v Paloma Amel 50 #18
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Re: Victron Quattro 5000 Location
Andrew & Kate Lamb
We installed a quattro and Victron isolation transformer in 2013 in the engine room vertically where the Mastervolt 100Amp charger and the Mastervolt 30 Amp charger were. We then doubled up the two sets of cables for these devices to connect to the Victron. We had a small inverter under the chart table which had thick cabling to the batteries in place, this we replaced with the 30Amp Mastervolt charger as a backup charger. It has worked very well but we have found that it gets quite hot when charging and inverting but particularly when inverting. On occasion to the extent we received high temperature alarms in the Victron Color Control. There are fans come on in the engine room for the motor and for the genset and we have investigated but not implemented yet the option of automatically switching on one or other of these using one of the inbuilt Quattro relays when the heat is above a certain level – I believe that this is possible and I think this would be essential for extended inverting under significant loads. I think from a noise point of view that there is a significant hum from the device that may become annoying in the cabin besides the additional heat.
Andrew Ronpische SM472
Canet-en-Roussillon
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Elaine Leishman
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 8:56 AM To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Victron Quattro 5000 Location
We are going to install a victron quattro 5000 inverter/charger and looking for advice as to the location on a super Maramu 2000.
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Dave Ritten
Hi Dean
The washer with rubber inner seal is called a Dowty washer. A good hydraulic engineering or bearing shop will carry these and be able to match up the correct size. -- Dave Ritten Auckland Prospective SM Owner
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Victron Quattro 5000 Location
We are going to install a victron quattro 5000 inverter/charger and looking for advice as to the location on a super Maramu 2000.
We are looking at 2 options, . - locating it next to the nav station in the storage area on the wall that divides the companion way. This would keep the 24v cabling shorter and hopefully provide a cooler, cleaner environment. Weight on the starboard side wouldn't hurt. Question, how much noise do they make when running, compared to the fridge? - locating it in the engine room, shorter to 40v power cabling, wouldn't hear it running over the gender. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Elaine and Michael SM251 Nebo Hobart
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Here is a photo with the V bolt: http://nikimat.com/spare_parts_c_drive.html
On Wednesday, September 4, 2019, 12:57:10 PM CDT, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote: Dean, What you have doesn't agree with the way I remember the V Bolt. I don't have a photo of the V Bolt, but do have a photo of a new drain bolt to be used if you do not have a line cutter. You can see the metal washer and the absence of that smaller O ring that you have. I am fairly sure that this is what you need, rather than what you have. Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970 On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 12:47 PM SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:
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Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)
NICOLAS KLENE <n.klene@...>
Hi Ameliens
I have been following with great interest your discussions, on converting to lithium . I am actively looking for a SM 2K , and it would be one of the first upgrade I would go through . There is a young guy very knowledgable who could perhaps answer some of your question, check his posts on youtube , his name is William Prowse. All the best Nick Soon to be an Amel owner 🚣♂️
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Hi Olivier,
Thank you, I understand more now. The first washer does have remnants of a rubber-ring, I thought that the rubber remnants had just stuck to the first washer due to being pressured against an O-ring for six months. So it seems I need to: 1. Find a new washer with rubber-ring. Amel only? 2. Find some more thin washers to try and adjust the V groove to be vertical while the bolt is also tight. I don’t like the mastic idea much, I’d rather it sealed properly with the O - rings. I have a suspicion that the material I thought was a perished O-ring was in fact some mastic which had been put on when the V bolt was fitted. (I had too many other tasks this year and asked the technician at the marina to fit my ropecutter. I thought it was a straightforward job that didn’t have much chance of going wrong!) 3. Replace the shaft seals regardless of them showing any problem. We have 1065 hours. many thanks Dean
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Beaute Olivier
Hello Dean, Bill's picture shows the original bolt and washer when no rope-cutter is installed. The washer has a built-in rubber "ring" that is necessary to get a good sealing. The problem with the V-bolt is that it must match the fixed blade of the rope-cutter, and therefore, with the original washer, the matching position of the bolt may not be the tight position of the bolt. The "trick" is to add one more washer (for instance a soft copper one, like on cars oil case), not necessarily with a rubber ring, so that the bolt can be set with the V matching the blade, and tight. If this is really too difficult to have the V-bolt matching the blade AND being tight, then, the mastic sealant will do the job. One more point about the three shaft seals: they may not leak (oil) when the boat is out of the water, but let water in when the boat is afloat, moreover if the shaft is rotating. And if there are more than 1000 hours since last service, you should think of replacing the bushing and seals now. Bon courage. Olivier
On Wednesday, September 4, 2019, 07:57:11 PM GMT+2, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
Dean, What you have doesn't agree with the way I remember the V Bolt. I don't have a photo of the V Bolt, but do have a photo of a new drain bolt to be used if you do not have a line cutter. You can see the metal washer and the absence of that smaller O ring that you have. I am fairly sure that this is what you need, rather than what you have. Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970 On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 12:47 PM SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Dean, What you have doesn't agree with the way I remember the V Bolt. I don't have a photo of the V Bolt, but do have a photo of a new drain bolt to be used if you do not have a line cutter. You can see the metal washer and the absence of that smaller O ring that you have. I am fairly sure that this is what you need, rather than what you have. Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 12:47 PM SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Hi, I’ve removed the V bolt completely and have drained down the oil. The attached pic shows the whole assembly. Two O-rings and two washers on the shaft. The O-ring at the top of the threaded shaft has perished. The O-ring nearest the V is slightly damaged . I’m still not exactly sure how this assembly works to ensure both a tight seal and a correct vertical alignment of the V. Maybe the real seal ends up being the mastic that Ian mentioned! Kent, I’m not so keen to change the lip seals without any clear evidence that I need to do that. I have not changed them before, and there was no problem until the ropecutter was installed in April this year. The evidence is very clear that the current problem is the Vbolt. That doesn’t mean the lip seals are not about to start leaking of course !! We launch every April and haul every Sep anyway so I’m not so concerned about that aspect. Best regards Dean A54-154
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Ian and Judy What is Mastic? Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
Hi Dean ,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Can’t help with the alignment of the bolt but when the Amel guy in La Rochelle did the first oil change on our SM back in 2001 he added a touch of mastic to the head of that bolt to help to seal it . I have followed that since .
Ian and Judy , Pen Azen SM 302 Greece
On 4 Sep 2019, at 16:20, SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Hi Dean,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
How long has it been since you change the prop shaft seals? I would recommend that you go ahead and change them now. You have no way of knowing if water is getting in there as well as through the V bolt hole. If you don’t change them now, and you go back in the water to find it’s still getting water into the oil, you’ll have to haul out again. Be sure to follow the instructions on this site completely. I have been putting my seals in as several have suggested to keep water out more than to keep oil in. That’s because I’ve never lost oil and I have had water ingress a few times in the past. Since changing orientation of the seals from forward to aft so that on the first one in, the open spring side faces forward, the next two aft, I have had no water in the oil and no loss of oil for 6 years. I am overdue for a haul out by almost a year and just noticed some loss of oil. Others here, notably Bill R, strongly recommend that you follow Amel’s recommendation of orienting the seals forward, forward, then aft, so that the first two are keeping oil in and the last is keeping water out. You pays your money and takes your choice. Kent Robertson S/V Kristy SM 243
On Sep 4, 2019, at 12:21 PM, SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:
Nick, We are ashore, masts up in Ardrossan. yep it’s a windy place, I lived here for a year when I was a kid. Its averaging 30 gusting 40 knots today. No boatcover this year! Cheers Dean
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Nick,
We are ashore, masts up in Ardrossan. yep it’s a windy place, I lived here for a year when I was a kid. Its averaging 30 gusting 40 knots today. No boatcover this year! Cheers Dean
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
Right, thanks Bill.
There was no washer, just the O Ring seal. I’ll take it up with Amel. Cheers Dean
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
ngtnewington Newington
Hi Dean,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Slightly off topic, where are you hauled out in Scotland? Masts down? It will be pretty windy in that part of the world over the winter months. Nick
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Re: C-Drive vs Linecutter
You may be missing the washer which should have been supplied by Amel. This washer and the O ring seal the V bolt. Best, CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 10:20 AM SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote: Hi folks,
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C-Drive vs Linecutter
Hi folks,
We are on the hard stand and I started the job of replacing the C-Drive lower seals since my C-Drive oil has gone a little like a chocolate milkshake. When we came ashore, I noticed a trickle of oil down the keel which implied the lower seals were leaking oil. This afternoon I removed the autoprop and the Spurs linecutter which I installed last year to get at the V-bolt in order to drain the oil. After removing these it became clear that the source of the leakage is the V-bolt, and not the C-Drive shaft seals, which do not show any form of leakage. The rubber O-seal on the V bolt appears to have perished and allowed water in and oil out of the C-Drive. I’m fairly sure the O-seal was provided by Amel when I ordered the V bolt last year. The V bolt itself was rather loose today, and I needed to rotate it an additional 35-45degrees clockwise in order to be fully tight. In this position, the V-bolt does not align with the line-cutter, so that is a problem. The solution would appear to be to fit a new seal under the V-bolt. However, it’s a concern that the previous O-seal perished in 6 months in the water. Have others found this problem, and is there a better solution than simply replacing the seal? I have a general philosophy of not fixing stuff that’s not broken, so I’m now considering leaving the shaft seals (lip seals) intact. The oil was perfect before I installed the line cutter in April, and close inspection shows no visible leakage from the shaft seals. Thought ? Dean SY Stella A54-154
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