Date   
Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Matt Salatino
 

Very interesting article

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 7, 2019, at 5:11 AM, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

Thanks again, Scott, for all your thoughts and help on this topic.  I wanted to share with the group a quite technical article I downloaded quite some time ago based upon advice from the Delos guys.  They apparently relied on the guy who wrote the article quite a bit in putting together their system.  


There are several articles in the link but the first one is a good start - although quite technical.  My key takeaways include: 
 
*Charge current should not exceed 30% of the battery capacity - ie 30A for a 100 Ah battery
*batteries should not be charged to 100%, only 90% 
 
Another article linked here says that you have to have a system that takes up charge currents generated by any charging source in case the battery management system shuts down the batteries.  If you don’t, the charging sources (alternator, charger, combi) will blow up.  The guys at Delos, if I recall correctly, rigged up the starter battery to take up the charging current in this case.

One more thing:  according to the article, Lithium batteries are totally intolerant to overcharging whereas Lead Acid batteries give you some wiggle room.  This gave me particular thought because I had an episode of overcharging this summer because of a loose connection of the sensing wire of the alternator regulator.  Charging voltage was up over 31V for at least 10 minutes until I shut down the engine.  My gel batteries survived the episode without missing a beat.  Would Lithiums have been destroyed?  There's obviously a lot to learn about Lithium.  
 
Hope this helps!  

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in Cadiz
 
 
 
 

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Scott SV Tengah
 

Paul,

I don't read SOC but rather cell by cell voltage via bluetooth. I rarely see more than 0.02v difference between cells.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Location of the fuse for the chain washing pump requested

 

Two possibilities:
1.) The motor is not turning because of some physical or electrical issue.
2.) The OEM pump does not have a pressure switch. If the pressure side of the water line is blocked, the breaker will open. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Sep 7, 2019, 4:43 AM Willem Kroes <kavanga@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill. I found the fuse in the engine compartment. "eau mer" was out. I pushed in 'in' and switching it on the light of the chain washing pump went on for a second or 4 and then the fuse came out again. Is it possible that the pump is frozen by salt deposits as Bob and Suzanne suggested?

Best regards,

Willem

SM#351 KAVANGA

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul Brown
 

Hey Scott,

What individual SOC do you read on each battery in respect to out of balance with each battery please once a month before you recharge to 100%?

As I have mentioned, my #1 battery is dropping approximately 30% lower the the other 3 after around 2 weeks while the balance with the other 3 batteries are almost the same SOC by 2-3%. I’m discussing this issue on Monday with a Mastervolt technician to hopefully shed light on it. I expect the batteries should not be out of balance by a large degree.

Regards Paul - Fortuna II A55/17


On 7 Sep 2019, at 1:53 pm, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Joerg,

Thanks for the link. 

I think your charging takeaways are for extreme longevity. I'm curious what the data is with respect to how longevity is affected by high charge currents. I do know that cell imbalances are more likely to occur at very high charge rates. I think Delos has over 220amps of 230v chargers and only 400ah of battery capacity, so they're doing over .5C!

The 90% max charge makes sense for the "normal" charge. I do know that Victron requires 100% every once in a while to (1) reset the battery monitor and (2) allow for intra-battery cell balancing. My procedure is keep it below 80% except for the once a month or two 100% charge for reasons (1) and (2). Then once a year do the battery-by-battery rebalance with my little 1.5amp charger. Seems to work well so far, but then again I haven't done a full capacity test.

I don't think the requirement to have a buffer battery applies to Victron. On an over voltage condition, the VE.BUS BMS simply turns off chargers - it does not disconnect individual batteries. There are downsides to Victron's way of doing it, but it does remove the need for a buffer battery. 

Yes, lifepo4 is very intolerant of overcharging (over voltage) and taking the batteries too low (under voltage). One uncorrected fault and the battery could be dead. The BMS is supposed to monitor and trigger a response via the charge disconnect and load disconnect to stop that from happening. Of course, that means the disconnects need to work perfectly. I think an additional safety measure would be to rig up a cheap piezo alarm that goes off when the BMS detects a fault. That would require human intervention, but at least if you're around, you have a chance to fix the problem if your automatic fault correction systems fail. 

I thought for the Mastervolt 24/110 the reg-on wire WAS the voltage sense wire? So if it's disconnected, the alternator would stop charging. But perhaps your loose connection showed (true voltage - 5v) or something, making the alternator think the battery bank wasn't fully charged?

Again, all these complexities lead me to choosing a single brand, to the extent possible, with a good warranty. I would rather not invoke the warranty, but I installed the system per their engineer's recommendations and if something went wrong, hopefully they will take responsibility. Try that with a Chinese battery combined with Brand X charger!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Scott SV Tengah
 

Joerg,

Thanks for the link. 

I think your charging takeaways are for extreme longevity. I'm curious what the data is with respect to how longevity is affected by high charge currents. I do know that cell imbalances are more likely to occur at very high charge rates. I think Delos has over 220amps of 230v chargers and only 400ah of battery capacity, so they're doing over .5C!

The 90% max charge makes sense for the "normal" charge. I do know that Victron requires 100% every once in a while to (1) reset the battery monitor and (2) allow for intra-battery cell balancing. My procedure is keep it below 80% except for the once a month or two 100% charge for reasons (1) and (2). Then once a year do the battery-by-battery rebalance with my little 1.5amp charger. Seems to work well so far, but then again I haven't done a full capacity test.

I don't think the requirement to have a buffer battery applies to Victron. On an over voltage condition, the VE.BUS BMS simply turns off chargers - it does not disconnect individual batteries. There are downsides to Victron's way of doing it, but it does remove the need for a buffer battery. 

Yes, lifepo4 is very intolerant of overcharging (over voltage) and taking the batteries too low (under voltage). One uncorrected fault and the battery could be dead. The BMS is supposed to monitor and trigger a response via the charge disconnect and load disconnect to stop that from happening. Of course, that means the disconnects need to work perfectly. I think an additional safety measure would be to rig up a cheap piezo alarm that goes off when the BMS detects a fault. That would require human intervention, but at least if you're around, you have a chance to fix the problem if your automatic fault correction systems fail. 

I thought for the Mastervolt 24/110 the reg-on wire WAS the voltage sense wire? So if it's disconnected, the alternator would stop charging. But perhaps your loose connection showed (true voltage - 5v) or something, making the alternator think the battery bank wasn't fully charged?

Again, all these complexities lead me to choosing a single brand, to the extent possible, with a good warranty. I would rather not invoke the warranty, but I installed the system per their engineer's recommendations and if something went wrong, hopefully they will take responsibility. Try that with a Chinese battery combined with Brand X charger!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Annapolis Boat Show

Patrick McAneny
 

Kent ,would Friday about 6:30 work for you & Iris.
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Sep 6, 2019 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Annapolis Boat Show

Hi Pat,
Tell us when and where, I will be there, Iris may be able to come too.
Kent
SN243/Kristy
.
On Sep 6, 2019, at 9:49 AM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

Speed of Life
Amel 50, #27

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 6, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> wrote:

Matt, Ok thats one vote for Fri. What is the name/model of your boat ?
Pat 
SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Sep 6, 2019 8:49 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Annapolis Boat Show

Cindy and I are driving in for the entire show. We have a previous engagement on Saturday, October 12, but Friday would be good.......

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 6, 2019, at 8:12 AM, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> wrote:

Diane and I will be sailing to the boat show this year, as we have for the last 35 yrs. We would be anchored in the main anchorage and would invite everyone out to the boat for drinks and pizza and we could do that. But it may be more convenient to meet at a local restaurant across the street from the show. Mangia Italian Grill has great pizza ,etc. and is only about 100 ft. from the show. Friday or Sat. about 6:30 would work for us ,Sat. may be busier . If anyone would be interested, lets get a head count .
Seya There,
Pat & Diane,
SV Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2019 9:29 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Annapolis Boat Show

Iris and I will be driving over to Annapolis for the show.  If there’s a get-together for dinner and/or drinks, we’d like to join in.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy SM243
St Michaels, MD

On Sep 4, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:

Mike,

No problem.  JL Mertz's Speedi-Sleeve idea is a good one too as the surface finish on the shaft is really not good enough to ensure a good seal with the oil seal. 

Regarding the Annapolis Boat Show, we will definitely be at the show but we are not sure if we will taking Cara or just driving.  It's such a zoo around there at that time and we can't take the days off work to get there early enough to be ensured of a decent anchoring spot.  Definitely let me know what the plans are as they develop!

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: Location of the fuse for the chain washing pump requested

Willem Kroes
 

Hi Bob and Suzanne,

Thanks for the info. I just answered Bill that I found the fuse in the engine compartment. "eau mer" was out. I pushed in 'in' and switching it on the light of the chain washing pump went on for a second or 4 and then the fuse came out again.

So may be it is possible that the pump is frozen by salt deposits as you suggested. Do I have to remove the casing of the pump before I can reach the vent blades?

So I have to find the pump. I will check the manual.


Best regards,

Willem

SM#351 KAVANGA

Re: Location of the fuse for the chain washing pump requested

Willem Kroes
 

Thanks Bill. I found the fuse in the engine compartment. "eau mer" was out. I pushed in 'in' and switching it on the light of the chain washing pump went on for a second or 4 and then the fuse came out again. Is it possible that the pump is frozen by salt deposits as Bob and Suzanne suggested?

Best regards,

Willem

SM#351 KAVANGA

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Joerg Esdorn
 

Thanks again, Scott, for all your thoughts and help on this topic.  I wanted to share with the group a quite technical article I downloaded quite some time ago based upon advice from the Delos guys.  They apparently relied on the guy who wrote the article quite a bit in putting together their system.  


There are several articles in the link but the first one is a good start - although quite technical.  My key takeaways include: 
 
*Charge current should not exceed 30% of the battery capacity - ie 30A for a 100 Ah battery
*batteries should not be charged to 100%, only 90% 
 
Another article linked here says that you have to have a system that takes up charge currents generated by any charging source in case the battery management system shuts down the batteries.  If you don’t, the charging sources (alternator, charger, combi) will blow up.  The guys at Delos, if I recall correctly, rigged up the starter battery to take up the charging current in this case.

One more thing:  according to the article, Lithium batteries are totally intolerant to overcharging whereas Lead Acid batteries give you some wiggle room.  This gave me particular thought because I had an episode of overcharging this summer because of a loose connection of the sensing wire of the alternator regulator.  Charging voltage was up over 31V for at least 10 minutes until I shut down the engine.  My gel batteries survived the episode without missing a beat.  Would Lithiums have been destroyed?  There's obviously a lot to learn about Lithium.  
 
Hope this helps!  

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in Cadiz
 
 
 
 

Re: Aqua Signal Series 44 LED port/starboard bow nav lights

Dan Carlson
 

Thanks Ryan,  that's very helpful.  

No issues with the wiring?  One of buyer commented on the wiring connections that came with the package.

Also, did you go with the black or white fixtures? 

Thanks and regards, Dan and Lori Carlson on SM #387, sv BeBe



On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 4:01 PM Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@... wrote:
I recently made the change to the series 44.  The mounting plate is not exactly the same -- you can't use the neat little slide on/off bracket.  Two of the screw holes do line up, though.  I drilled a third one for extra security, and I put cap nuts on the inside (the side facing the genoa furler) so nothing gets snagged on them.  It was a pretty quick and painless upgrade, once I had the right parts:

M4 screws, 16mm long, hex drive (3 per light)
washers for M4, 4.3mm ID, 9mm OD (I think 6 per light)
M4 cap nuts (3 per light)

All in 316 stainless, of course.  I sourced them from McMaster.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 2:07 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Dan,

 

I recently replaced the bulbs on my AS 40 with a colored LEDs. Didn't want to deal with retrofitting the mount.

https://store.marinebeam.com/aqua-signal-bi-color-led-replacement-bulb/

The housing leaked probably due to some submarining when we were sailing upwind in 45 knots, so I replaced the bulb, sealed it up and pray daily that it stays sealed. :)


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

With regard to:
Big Box Charger vs Charger/Inverter:  So far the discussion has been dominated by the Victron Charger/Inverter set up.   One of my cruiser friends (non-Amel) has switched his boat over to keeping the chargers and inverters separate, with good logic. Thoughts?  [...] What would Henri Amel do?

This may depend on one's boat and its wiring.

In our case, when we went all-MasterVolt in 2013, I wanted to install an inverter-charger.  If I recall correctly, with it came fancy advantages, such as being able to compensate for low-amperage shore connections, which we have come across of late in the Baltic and in the North Sea.

However, my electrician warned me against it.  I did not want to re-wire the boat and he said the existing engine room to battery box cables were not sufficient for the MV Charger/Inverter 100A/3500W we were considering at the time.  Not because of the nominal capacity, mind you, but because the inverter was able to supply double its rating for a limited time.  You'll recall Scott of Tengah's different course of action: "you need to break the epoxy seal between the engine compartment and the passage berth, located on the floor on the forward end of the “passage”. After this, you will re-epoxy the hole so the watertight separation is re-established".

One altermative the electrician gave was to install the charger/inverter in the wet locker, that is, close to the batteries, and with fat wiring, but when I asked what exactly did Henri Amel do for boats of our (now ancient) generation, the answers were, one, he put the inverter in the engine room; two, it was not a combo device; and three, it was the Xantrex 1800 (230v).  So that's exactly what we did.  The installation has proven to be bullet-proof.

Having said that, if I had the thicker cables, either because the boat came with them or because I was willing to break and re-do the epoxy seal, I would not hesitate to install a combo unit for the main charger.  Like Scott says, there is a smaller charger as backup anyway (a 30A MV in our case).  The advantages of these units when one has an integrated monitoring and control system, such as Scott's Victron or our MV are too many to be dismissed out of hand.

Cheers,

 

sv Peregrinus

currently Delfzijll, Frisia

Re: Annapolis Boat Show

Scott SV Tengah
 

Friday would work for us, too. It's my girlfriend and I. Boat name and model below. Thanks!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Annapolis Boat Show

karkauai
 

Hi Pat,
Tell us when and where, I will be there, Iris may be able to come too.
Kent
SN243/Kristy
.

On Sep 6, 2019, at 9:49 AM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

Speed of Life
Amel 50, #27

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 6, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> wrote:

Matt, Ok thats one vote for Fri. What is the name/model of your boat ?
Pat 
SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Sep 6, 2019 8:49 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Annapolis Boat Show

Cindy and I are driving in for the entire show. We have a previous engagement on Saturday, October 12, but Friday would be good.......

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 6, 2019, at 8:12 AM, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> wrote:

Diane and I will be sailing to the boat show this year, as we have for the last 35 yrs. We would be anchored in the main anchorage and would invite everyone out to the boat for drinks and pizza and we could do that. But it may be more convenient to meet at a local restaurant across the street from the show. Mangia Italian Grill has great pizza ,etc. and is only about 100 ft. from the show. Friday or Sat. about 6:30 would work for us ,Sat. may be busier . If anyone would be interested, lets get a head count .
Seya There,
Pat & Diane,
SV Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2019 9:29 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Annapolis Boat Show

Iris and I will be driving over to Annapolis for the show.  If there’s a get-together for dinner and/or drinks, we’d like to join in.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy SM243
St Michaels, MD

On Sep 4, 2019, at 10:23 AM, Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:

Mike,

No problem.  JL Mertz's Speedi-Sleeve idea is a good one too as the surface finish on the shaft is really not good enough to ensure a good seal with the oil seal. 

Regarding the Annapolis Boat Show, we will definitely be at the show but we are not sure if we will taking Cara or just driving.  It's such a zoo around there at that time and we can't take the days off work to get there early enough to be ensured of a decent anchoring spot.  Definitely let me know what the plans are as they develop!

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: Aqua Signal Series 44 LED port/starboard bow nav lights

Ryan Meador
 

I recently made the change to the series 44.  The mounting plate is not exactly the same -- you can't use the neat little slide on/off bracket.  Two of the screw holes do line up, though.  I drilled a third one for extra security, and I put cap nuts on the inside (the side facing the genoa furler) so nothing gets snagged on them.  It was a pretty quick and painless upgrade, once I had the right parts:

M4 screws, 16mm long, hex drive (3 per light)
washers for M4, 4.3mm ID, 9mm OD (I think 6 per light)
M4 cap nuts (3 per light)

All in 316 stainless, of course.  I sourced them from McMaster.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 2:07 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Dan,

 

I recently replaced the bulbs on my AS 40 with a colored LEDs. Didn't want to deal with retrofitting the mount.

https://store.marinebeam.com/aqua-signal-bi-color-led-replacement-bulb/

The housing leaked probably due to some submarining when we were sailing upwind in 45 knots, so I replaced the bulb, sealed it up and pray daily that it stays sealed. :)


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Aqua Signal Series 44 LED port/starboard bow nav lights

Scott SV Tengah
 
Edited

Dan,

 

I recently replaced the bulbs on my AS 40 with a colored LEDs. Didn't want to deal with retrofitting the mount.

https://store.marinebeam.com/aqua-signal-bi-color-led-replacement-bulb/

The housing leaked probably due to some submarining when we were sailing upwind in 45 knots, so I replaced the bulb, sealed it up and pray daily that it stays sealed. :)


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Matt Salatino
 

EXCELLENT Marine How To article.
Thanks!

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 6, 2019, at 12:10 PM, Brent Cameron <brentcameron61@...> wrote:

Dan, there are lots of people on the internet who make it seem easy and claim a high degree of success with various implementations of LiFePO4 but I urge a high degree of caution.  There is a very good article by Compass Marine on the pitfalls of a build it yourself system (and things to look out for if you proceed)  https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/If you fully understand all of this, then have at it… but I’d be very cautious. 

Brent Cameron, Future Amel owner & Amel Owner's Registry Moderator
On Sep 6, 2019, 9:27 AM -0400, Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...>, wrote:
Hi all,  I've been following the Lithium topic closely now and want to make the conversion this November when I return to BeBe.    As I have followed this thread and also talked with other cruisers that have converted in the past here are a couple questions that I would like to see some experience opinions on:
1)  Smart Batteries vs Smart BMS:  It seems most of the focus has been on the Smart Batteries from BattleBorn, Dragonfly or VE.  However, I have also come across some cruisers that have installed Winston or other LI batteries that are then controlled by a central BMS.  (this BMS will monitor each battery individually and can adjust the charge to the individual batteries to keep them in balance.  And then it also has over all cut in/cut out relays to protect the entire battery bank from over or under charge.   Has anyone had experience with this type of set up?
2) Big Box Charger vs Charger/Inverter:  So far the discussion has been dominated by the Victron Charger/Inverter set up.   One of my cruiser friends (non-Amel) has switched his boat over to keeping the chargers and inverters separate, with good logic.  He has redundant charging capabilities and then supplies all of his on-board 230 volt requirements from the inverter.  (He may have a jaded view as he lost his Big box charger/inverter a year or so ago and this convinced him that it was better not to have everything in one box).  Thoughts?  What would Henri Amel do?
3) Daily Life with LI:  At Anchor, Marina life, Passages, Storage?   I think battery management when I am active on the boat will be pretty straight-forward, but what I am less sure of is how to best manage the battery maintenance when I need to leave the boat for a period of time during the season, or when I put it up for and extended period (ie hurricane season), or  how to be confident that the batteries are not being over-charged in an extended motoring situation? 

Already the recent 'threads' are getting hard to navigate.   Would it make sense to divide some of these topics in separate threads?   i.e  batteries, charger/inverters, alternator controls, Life w/ LI?   

I really appreciate all the information that is available on this forum.  

Dan & Lori Carlson on SM#387, sv BeBe  - we have 405w of Solar and use about 4000 watts/day at anchor. 

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Scott SV Tengah
 

Glad to provide my experiences in hopes that it helps someone else. I have gotten so much value out of this forum that I'm happy to give back whenever I can, which admittedly isn't that often.

By the way, here's a Victron white paper I read re: generators. 

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/VE_Marine_generator_test_RVA_07-jan-2008.pdf

Our 11kw Onan runs most efficiently around 8kw. The slope of load vs. relative efficiency flattens out around 6-7kw. This is about where the generator sits when I have both the Quattro and Skylla chargers putting 200amps into the lithium batteries. We like to live comfortably, but we're also not-so-closet environmentalists. So we try to do what we can to reduce our impact. Solar plus concentrating our genset usage appears to allow us to live comfortably and minimize our impact.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul Brown
 

I agree with Scott entirely, from my experience now with five larger boats in the past 20 years and many issues with particularly batteries and chargers, when things go wrong it becomes a blame game and a continuous expense.

This Mastervolt 720ah lithium, charging and BMS system on my boat current boat has not missed a beat in the past 5 years and on the occasion when I have lacked knowledge to correct an issue and asked for MV technical assistance they have simply logged in remotely from their head office and checked and reprogrammed or updated firmware with ease via an internet connection and a phone conversation.

From this experience I recommend a system from one manufacturer, it may cost a little more but the service and warranty is solid 

I also experience the requirement for around 1000w/32A solar to manage off the grid for anchoring and sailing passages, the generator would only be required for a rare situation with all appliances running off inverters 

Thanks Scott again for you sharing 

Regards Paul - Fortuna II A55/#17


On 6 Sep 2019, at 5:46 pm, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Dan,

Answers to your questions:

1) As I mentioned, I didn't want to mess around with different manufacturers in case the expensive batteries died. I learned this from when I was working - to the extent possible, make sure you have one responsible party when there are many interconnected systems/processes. If you buy a Winston battery, which I considered, and it dies, they will certainly blame the Victron charger. Victron will claim their charger is perfect. You are now the one paying for a new one out of pocket. By going Victron on battery and charger and getting Victron to help me set it up, I am more likely to have the warranty honored.

Lithium requires enough thinking, I didn't want to try to invent more things than I needed to.

2) I have redundancy with my Skylla-i, as I described. I also envisioned using it to charge the bank and then running off inverter when in 110/220 60hz countries. See original text. It's not rocket science, so I would just re-wire if there's a failure. I also have the old 800w Mastervolt inverter as a backup.

3) See original text. I talk about my thoughts on this.

FYI we use close to 5kw a day, maybe a bit more. Solar provides most of it. I surmise if we didn't cook with induction/electric kettle/microwave and used the gas stove instead, we'd use a lot less. But induction is far superior, in my opinion. We keep the gas as a backup, however. Too many things need to go right for induction to work to rely on it exclusively.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Brent Cameron
 

Dan, there are lots of people on the internet who make it seem easy and claim a high degree of success with various implementations of LiFePO4 but I urge a high degree of caution.  There is a very good article by Compass Marine on the pitfalls of a build it yourself system (and things to look out for if you proceed)  https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/If you fully understand all of this, then have at it… but I’d be very cautious. 

Brent Cameron, Future Amel owner & Amel Owner's Registry Moderator

On Sep 6, 2019, 9:27 AM -0400, Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...>, wrote:
Hi all,  I've been following the Lithium topic closely now and want to make the conversion this November when I return to BeBe.    As I have followed this thread and also talked with other cruisers that have converted in the past here are a couple questions that I would like to see some experience opinions on:
1)  Smart Batteries vs Smart BMS:  It seems most of the focus has been on the Smart Batteries from BattleBorn, Dragonfly or VE.  However, I have also come across some cruisers that have installed Winston or other LI batteries that are then controlled by a central BMS.  (this BMS will monitor each battery individually and can adjust the charge to the individual batteries to keep them in balance.  And then it also has over all cut in/cut out relays to protect the entire battery bank from over or under charge.   Has anyone had experience with this type of set up?
2) Big Box Charger vs Charger/Inverter:  So far the discussion has been dominated by the Victron Charger/Inverter set up.   One of my cruiser friends (non-Amel) has switched his boat over to keeping the chargers and inverters separate, with good logic.  He has redundant charging capabilities and then supplies all of his on-board 230 volt requirements from the inverter.  (He may have a jaded view as he lost his Big box charger/inverter a year or so ago and this convinced him that it was better not to have everything in one box).  Thoughts?  What would Henri Amel do?
3) Daily Life with LI:  At Anchor, Marina life, Passages, Storage?   I think battery management when I am active on the boat will be pretty straight-forward, but what I am less sure of is how to best manage the battery maintenance when I need to leave the boat for a period of time during the season, or when I put it up for and extended period (ie hurricane season), or  how to be confident that the batteries are not being over-charged in an extended motoring situation? 

Already the recent 'threads' are getting hard to navigate.   Would it make sense to divide some of these topics in separate threads?   i.e  batteries, charger/inverters, alternator controls, Life w/ LI?   

I really appreciate all the information that is available on this forum.  

Dan & Lori Carlson on SM#387, sv BeBe  - we have 405w of Solar and use about 4000 watts/day at anchor. 

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada

Re: Aqua Signal Series 44 LED port/starboard bow nav lights

Gerhard Mueller
 

See here:
https://www.svb24.com/en/aqua-signal-series-44-led-port-light-black-housing.html

The 44 series has the same mounting plate and because they have LED lamps they use only 1 W power consumption.
--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece