On Oct 29, 2019, at 5:45 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Dave,

   I would like to eventually replace the entire liner in my boat as well so am curious about how the job went?  The flat areas of the overhead look pretty straight forward but what about the areas such as the pass thru which are a compound shape?  What techniques did you use to get the fabric to fit the compound shape and have you had any problems?   I would also like to identify the best adhesive to use for the job.   I like your idea of going with a lighter colour.  

   If you can positively identify the location of the handrail bolts, you can cover your cuts through the liner for access by using varnished wooden blocks that will also allow future access.   African Mah

ogany selected for colour should match the rest of the interior pretty well I think.  If done well these blocks can actually improve the overall appearance.  You can use either round head, flat head or oval head screws that are left exposed to secure the blocks which makes future removal for inspection very easy.  

James Alton

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

Preveza,  Greece

   

On Oct 29, 2019, at 7:43 PM, david bruce <davidcbruce57@...> wrote:

Hi Miles,  Just a thought here.  I also have a small leak there and have temporarily sealed it externally so can not speak to the logistics of the headliner directly.  Liesse has had the entire headliner in all cabins replaced with a lighter white headliner which really serves to open and brighten the spaces. If you are doing an entire space i personally might take the opportunity to go lighter.  I haven t tackled a true leak repair yet largely because it looks like i will have to in some way mar this really nice headliner, but know i m just kicking the can down the road here.

Best, 
Dave 
Liesse
SN006

On Oct 29, 2019, at 3:02 PM, smiles bernard via Groups.Io <smilesbernard@...> wrote:



Hello 

A leak on the stainless grab rails on the aft cabin top has lead to some discolouration of the headliner during previous ownership. 

I’m hoping to leave the Headliner trim on the vertical window sections in place as it’s not stained at all but also I can’t see any easy way of removing this other than taking the windows out to expose, I presume, hidden screws that hold internal ply backing in place. 

Has anyone tried this ?

I’m considering not gluing new headliner directly but instead templating thin ply then covering this and screwing the ply sections to the roof. Hopefully this will work ok 🤞

Also does anyone have any experience of a good headliner match for the vintage Maramus ?

Many thanks in advance

Miles 
Maramu 162

On 30 Oct 2019, at 13:41, smiles bernard via Groups.Io <smilesbernard=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Ian
Many thanks for this response
Can I just confirm how you managed to remove the ply window panels?
Sounds like you are saying that as soon as the window screws and bolts were out then the ply panel could be pulled free from inside?
I had assumed there would be some blind screws hidden behind the window acrylic
If not then that is good news. Just take all screws and through bolts out and pull the ply free
Redo headliner around the windows then replace ply
I was going to do exactly the same wrt ply panels on Velcro 👍👍
Many thanks again
Miles

On 30 Oct 2019, at 08:57, Ian <parkianj@gmail.com> wrote:

On 30 Oct 2019, at 08:57, Ian <parkianj@gmail.com> wrote:

On 30 October 2019 at 21:26 JOHN HAYES <johnhayes862@...> wrote:

No we regularly get 50  plus knots in cook strait that are easier to deal with from a northerly direction than from the south. (Nothing between us and the Antarctic ). which means the wind cold and more constant or less gusty. In early July had 55 knots for three days trying to head north to Tonga past the kermadec islands. 

I’m always happier to sail in 50 knots than be anchored waiting for an anchor to drag!

My boat is based in Wellington. Ie 41 degrees south and while in a westerly wind flow the winds alter course and are either north or south because of mountains and a wind funnel affect between the north and south islands 

This is not territory for Mediterranean day sailors ........and I regret to say the new Amel designs which seem oriented to that market

My Santorin has proved safe though not always comfortable in these conditions ie 50 plus knots and 6 to 8 m waves. The point is to understand such conditions are not uncommon and a prudent skipper needs to be sure his boat ( and crew ) are up to the task. You may have noticed about a month ago a 47 foot yacht sank 35 miles off bream head off the bay of islands 

The skipper died three crew rescued by helicopter...... in 50 knot winds. Not sure what brand of boat but I’ll bet money it was not a Santorin........ check it out in google or the yachting blogs

Answering your second question yes

And why would you not if you no your going to get caught in such conditions??  I’n my view it’s important to know that the skipper boat and crew are up for whatever might get thrown at them

And Hans Peter while your thinking spare a thought for one James Cook who 250 years ago wandered these parts in a small square rigged ship no engine no charts no sat nav or gps radio etc etc. got to tell you having followed some of his foot steps that he was an astonishingly competent seaman, sailor and navigator.

Best

John Hayes 

Nga Waka sn41

 

On 29/10/2019, at 10:32 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Sorry John 55 Kn = 10 Bft

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 22:27, hanspeter baettig schrieb:


Hi John
Two questions only.
You sailed headwinds in 55 kn , means 12 Btf. or you where at ancer in a shelterd bay
2.You tryed your Santorin by purpose in 50 kn of wind?
fair winds Hanspeter
waiting for a genious reply!
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16
Martinique
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 18:06, JOHN HAYES schrieb:

Gidday Orion 

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and  confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice.  All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000. 

An extravagance!!!  Should have set up with cover cost .....,

Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m  10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa  $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000 

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent  and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has 

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed.  We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem

Have I over capitalised?  To secure insurance for off shore  cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k 

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration 

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes 

Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington  

 

On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin < poonz1@... > wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion

</hanspeter.baettig@...>

On 29/10/2019, at 10:32 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Sorry John 55 Kn = 10 Bft

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 22:27, hanspeter baettig schrieb:


Hi John
Two questions only.
You sailed headwinds in 55 kn , means 12 Btf. or you where at ancer in a shelterd bay
2.You tryed your Santorin by purpose in 50 kn of wind?
fair winds Hanspeter
waiting for a genious reply!
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16
Martinique
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 18:06, JOHN HAYES schrieb:

Gidday Orion 

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and  confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice.  All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000. 

An extravagance!!!  Should have set up with cover cost .....,

Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m  10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa  $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000 

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent  and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has 

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed.  We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem

Have I over capitalised?  To secure insurance for off shore  cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k 

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration 

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes 

Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington  

On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion

On Oct 29, 2019, at 7:43 PM, david bruce <davidcbruce57@...> wrote:

Hi Miles,  Just a thought here.  I also have a small leak there and have temporarily sealed it externally so can not speak to the logistics of the headliner directly.  Liesse has had the entire headliner in all cabins replaced with a lighter white headliner which really serves to open and brighten the spaces. If you are doing an entire space i personally might take the opportunity to go lighter.  I haven t tackled a true leak repair yet largely because it looks like i will have to in some way mar this really nice headliner, but know i m just kicking the can down the road here.

Best, 
Dave 
Liesse
SN006

On Oct 29, 2019, at 3:02 PM, smiles bernard via Groups.Io <smilesbernard@...> wrote:



Hello 

A leak on the stainless grab rails on the aft cabin top has lead to some discolouration of the headliner during previous ownership. 

I’m hoping to leave the Headliner trim on the vertical window sections in place as it’s not stained at all but also I can’t see any easy way of removing this other than taking the windows out to expose, I presume, hidden screws that hold internal ply backing in place. 

Has anyone tried this ?

I’m considering not gluing new headliner directly but instead templating thin ply then covering this and screwing the ply sections to the roof. Hopefully this will work ok 🤞

Also does anyone have any experience of a good headliner match for the vintage Maramus ?

Many thanks in advance

Miles 
Maramu 162