Date   
Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

hanspeter baettig
 


Yes this is HP from Tamango 2
I got the chance to order the last piece of Steering material, racks and pinion from SAV. I told that to Bill and SAV will look for new mybe new sources. But; my steereing last for about 50000 nm and 29 years. I did not so much sailing because I was in the med for 20 Years.
the installation took me about 2 hours at Trinidad, with the help of Marc; Dynamic Mec. Chagarumas, Port of Spain
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Mittwoch, 13. Nov, 2019 um 20:22, CW Bill Rouse schrieb:

Mark,

I believe that the US distributor probably misstated what Ultraflex is doing, but since I am not speaking directly to Ultraflex, I cannot know for sure. Since Thierry BILLARD, manager of SAV at Amel is in discussions with Ultraflex, I feel it is improper for me to get directly involved. The answer to your question will come from an owner ordering the racks from Amel. I am sure we will know more soon.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 1:13 PM Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:
Bill,

Just to clarify, Ultraflex is committing to make one last batch of cables ONLY?  What about the rack and pinion gears?  From reading posts on steering failures on this forum it seems that the racks are prone to failure - even if their failure is preceded, and potentially caused by, cable failures. 

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

 

Arno,

Yes

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.AmelYachtOwnersSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 4:52 PM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Bill,

I may have missed the answer to this question but is this rack/cables also for the 54?

Regards,

Arno
SVLuna,
A54-121

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Bill,

I may have missed the answer to this question but is this rack/cables also for the 54?

Regards,

Arno
SVLuna,
A54-121

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Patrick McAneny
 

James , That seems like a good idea , I will begin to fix it off center.
I was wondering if the rack could be rehabbed ,is the rack cast metal or could  metal be welded and teeth fashioned .
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Nov 13, 2019 4:51 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Bill,

  That is interesting speculation about the smoothness of an autopilot affecting the life expectancy of the steering rack and makes sense to me.  I have also been concerned about the possible wear due to wind and wave while the boat is not underway.  I have started turning the wheel at least some off center before tying off the wheel so that the center wheel position on the rack is not being used sine this seems to be where the rack fails most often. I have found that turning the wheel fully to the stops and securing seems to remove essentially all of the movement in the steering system.  Do you or others have an opinion on what is the best course of action when securing the wheel at anchor or dockside to create the least amount of wear?

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220
Preveza,  Greece

On Nov 13, 2019, at 5:11 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

I realize that I was probably too conservative when I stated that "the steering rack normally lasts 20+ years." I think with very few exceptions, the rack has lasted closer to 30 years, than 20 years.

And, more importantly, I believe the smoother that autopilot shifts from port to starboard, the longer the rack will last. In the past 10-15 years most autopilots that I have seen have improved dramatically in the smoothing of this shift. For instance, when BeBe, SM387 was new, there was a Raymarine 400G course computer installed. I later installed the next generation of course computers, the Raymarine S3. There was a dramatic difference. Also, most 54's have Furuno autopilots with hydraulic steering. The hydraulic ram's shift is much smoother than the Raymarine electric motor drives. It is likely that 54s with Furuno hydraulic steering may never have the issue shown in the photo below. I believe that this extraordinary mid-rack wear is cause by the abrupt shift we find from older autopilots.
The rack below is worn in the center.
<worn out rack.JPG>
--  
 
Best,
 
CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

James Alton
 

Bill,

  That is interesting speculation about the smoothness of an autopilot affecting the life expectancy of the steering rack and makes sense to me.  I have also been concerned about the possible wear due to wind and wave while the boat is not underway.  I have started turning the wheel at least some off center before tying off the wheel so that the center wheel position on the rack is not being used sine this seems to be where the rack fails most often. I have found that turning the wheel fully to the stops and securing seems to remove essentially all of the movement in the steering system.  Do you or others have an opinion on what is the best course of action when securing the wheel at anchor or dockside to create the least amount of wear?

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220
Preveza,  Greece

On Nov 13, 2019, at 5:11 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

I realize that I was probably too conservative when I stated that "the steering rack normally lasts 20+ years." I think with very few exceptions, the rack has lasted closer to 30 years, than 20 years.

And, more importantly, I believe the smoother that autopilot shifts from port to starboard, the longer the rack will last. In the past 10-15 years most autopilots that I have seen have improved dramatically in the smoothing of this shift. For instance, when BeBe, SM387 was new, there was a Raymarine 400G course computer installed. I later installed the next generation of course computers, the Raymarine S3. There was a dramatic difference. Also, most 54's have Furuno autopilots with hydraulic steering. The hydraulic ram's shift is much smoother than the Raymarine electric motor drives. It is likely that 54s with Furuno hydraulic steering may never have the issue shown in the photo below. I believe that this extraordinary mid-rack wear is cause by the abrupt shift we find from older autopilots.
The rack below is worn in the center.
<worn out rack.JPG>
--  
 
Best,
 
CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

 

I realize that I was probably too conservative when I stated that "the steering rack normally lasts 20+ years." I think with very few exceptions, the rack has lasted closer to 30 years, than 20 years.

And, more importantly, I believe the smoother that autopilot shifts from port to starboard, the longer the rack will last. In the past 10-15 years most autopilots that I have seen have improved dramatically in the smoothing of this shift. For instance, when BeBe, SM387 was new, there was a Raymarine 400G course computer installed. I later installed the next generation of course computers, the Raymarine S3. There was a dramatic difference. Also, most 54's have Furuno autopilots with hydraulic steering. The hydraulic ram's shift is much smoother than the Raymarine electric motor drives. It is likely that 54s with Furuno hydraulic steering may never have the issue shown in the photo below. I believe that this extraordinary mid-rack wear is cause by the abrupt shift we find from older autopilots.
The rack below is worn in the center.

--  
 
Best,
 
CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

 

I am not sure, but I believe there is a good chance they are the same. check with SAV"at"Amel.fr

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 2:17 PM rob dillmann <rob.dillmann@...> wrote:
Dear Bill,

Are these cables the same as those used in an Amel Mango? 

Best regards,
Rob Dillmann 
Westwind Mango 43

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

Op 13 nov. 2019 om 12:09 heeft CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> het volgende geschreven:

All SN, SM & 54 owners:

If you recall, one owner attempted to order steering rack and/or cable parts from Amel and was told the parts were no longer available. As soon as I read this, I got in touch with Amel, who told me Ultraflex, the Italian rack and cable manufacturer, abruptly and without notice stopped production of these parts. I asked Amel for some help and they said that they were working on a solution. I continued to follow-up with Uflex, the US distributor for Ultraflex, Italy. I asked Uflex USA to get involved with Ultraflex and push them for a solution. I promised all of you that I would post any results here.

The following is from Uflex USA. If you need/want replacement steering rack or cable parts, you should probably order them now from SAV"at"Amel.fr. It seems as though the steering rack normally lasts 20+ years. Cables usually last longer. Without replacement parts you will be forced to install a major steering change.
Email message to me from Uflex USA:
Ultraflex, Italy is in contact with Chantier Amel in France, apparently they will be able to supply them a last batch of cables. 
Uflex USA, Inc.

6442 Parkland Drive

Sarasota, FL 34243

www.uflexusa.com

--
 
Best,
 
Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Re: 3-D printing of furler motor parts

Alan Leslie
 

Sav@... have a smaller inner diameter ring to fit that new motor.
I posted info on it some time ago
Alan 
Elyse SM437

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

rob dillmann
 

Dear Bill,

Are these cables the same as those used in an Amel Mango? 

Best regards,
Rob Dillmann 
Westwind Mango 43

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

Op 13 nov. 2019 om 12:09 heeft CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> het volgende geschreven:

All SN, SM & 54 owners:

If you recall, one owner attempted to order steering rack and/or cable parts from Amel and was told the parts were no longer available. As soon as I read this, I got in touch with Amel, who told me Ultraflex, the Italian rack and cable manufacturer, abruptly and without notice stopped production of these parts. I asked Amel for some help and they said that they were working on a solution. I continued to follow-up with Uflex, the US distributor for Ultraflex, Italy. I asked Uflex USA to get involved with Ultraflex and push them for a solution. I promised all of you that I would post any results here.

The following is from Uflex USA. If you need/want replacement steering rack or cable parts, you should probably order them now from SAV"at"Amel.fr. It seems as though the steering rack normally lasts 20+ years. Cables usually last longer. Without replacement parts you will be forced to install a major steering change.
Email message to me from Uflex USA:
Ultraflex, Italy is in contact with Chantier Amel in France, apparently they will be able to supply them a last batch of cables. 
Uflex USA, Inc.

6442 Parkland Drive

Sarasota, FL 34243

www.uflexusa.com

--
 
Best,
 
Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Mark McGovern
 

Bill,

Understood.

Thanks,
Mark
--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

karkauai
 

Thank you for doing this leg work Bill.

My steering functions, feels, and sounds fine.  Kristy is 19 years old and we are embarking on a planned Caribbean, S Pacific and Mediterranean cruise in a few weeks.
If you were in my shoes, would you order these spares now?  Would you carry them with you?

Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM 243

On Nov 13, 2019, at 2:13 PM, Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:

Bill,

Just to clarify, Ultraflex is committing to make one last batch of cables ONLY?  What about the rack and pinion gears?  From reading posts on steering failures on this forum it seems that the racks are prone to failure - even if their failure is preceded, and potentially caused by, cable failures. 

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

 

Mark,

I believe that the US distributor probably misstated what Ultraflex is doing, but since I am not speaking directly to Ultraflex, I cannot know for sure. Since Thierry BILLARD, manager of SAV at Amel is in discussions with Ultraflex, I feel it is improper for me to get directly involved. The answer to your question will come from an owner ordering the racks from Amel. I am sure we will know more soon.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 1:13 PM Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:
Bill,

Just to clarify, Ultraflex is committing to make one last batch of cables ONLY?  What about the rack and pinion gears?  From reading posts on steering failures on this forum it seems that the racks are prone to failure - even if their failure is preceded, and potentially caused by, cable failures. 

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: 3-D printing of furler motor parts

karkauai
 

Hi Tom,
I had new mounting discs made from 3/4” delrin by a machinist.  They were about $125 US each plus material.  I had to buy a 1 ft square of 3/4” delrin.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Nov 13, 2019, at 2:02 PM, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

My old furler motor (original) called it quits. While It will be rebuilt, tested, and become a spare, my spare furling motor (bought from Amel years ago) is slightly different in that the old motor's upper jacket which holds the white vinyl motor cover is slightly too big. It doesnt fit snugly on the new motor, which came without one. I measured what I need and have given the task to Ronan (Kent's 3-D printing vendor). We will see how this goes. Price was quoted as about $25 so why not ?

I'm also interested in making the upper and lower gear box mounting discs (that hold it in the mast).

I will supply pics in the event of success or remain completely silent if this ends up being a fools errand. 

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM 2K 422

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Mark McGovern
 

Bill,

Just to clarify, Ultraflex is committing to make one last batch of cables ONLY?  What about the rack and pinion gears?  From reading posts on steering failures on this forum it seems that the racks are prone to failure - even if their failure is preceded, and potentially caused by, cable failures. 

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

3-D printing of furler motor parts

Thomas Kleman
 

My old furler motor (original) called it quits. While It will be rebuilt, tested, and become a spare, my spare furling motor (bought from Amel years ago) is slightly different in that the old motor's upper jacket which holds the white vinyl motor cover is slightly too big. It doesnt fit snugly on the new motor, which came without one. I measured what I need and have given the task to Ronan (Kent's 3-D printing vendor). We will see how this goes. Price was quoted as about $25 so why not ?

I'm also interested in making the upper and lower gear box mounting discs (that hold it in the mast).

I will supply pics in the event of success or remain completely silent if this ends up being a fools errand. 

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM 2K 422

Sailing US to Europe 2020

Wolfgang Weber
 

Hello to the group,
I crossed the atlantic via Cape Verde to Martinique this year, sailed up to Boston and now to Fort Lauderdale.
I plan to sail back to europe in April 2020. If an Amel owner would like to join me - please write PM to webercardio at gmail dot com.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162 Fort Lauderdale

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Thanks Bill for your service

Best Elja

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Re: Keel bolt cover

 

That bolt stabilizes the C-Drive from torque. Below is a snip from my Amel Book, showing the bolt and its rubber bushing. It should be sealed with a flexible removable sealer. Black silicone RTV is one such material. If the aft part of the C-Drive can be moved to either side by 10mm, or more, the C-Drive Foot Rubber Bushing needs to be replaced. The rubber bushing replacement part is a piece of heavy duty 1” or 25mm hose. Recommendation is side to side movement of 5mm or less. The replacement procedure is fairly straight forward, generally easy, and in my Amel Book.

image.png

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 10:50 AM Mark Pitt <mark_pitt@...> wrote:
There is a keel bolt near the C drive that is covered in a thick black rubber sealant.  The sealant does not appear to be silicone based.  I have a tear in that black rubber cover, revealing the head of the bolt.  What product should be used to re-seal this bolt?  There are a number of “liquid rubber” products on the market.

 
Mark Pitt
Sabbatical III, SM419

Re: Important Update Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

 

All SN, SM & 54 owners:

If you recall, one owner attempted to order steering rack and/or cable parts from Amel and was told the parts were no longer available. As soon as I read this, I got in touch with Amel, who told me Ultraflex, the Italian rack and cable manufacturer, abruptly and without notice stopped production of these parts. I asked Amel for some help and they said that they were working on a solution. I continued to follow-up with Uflex, the US distributor for Ultraflex, Italy. I asked Uflex USA to get involved with Ultraflex and push them for a solution. I promised all of you that I would post any results here.

The following is from Uflex USA. If you need/want replacement steering rack or cable parts, you should probably order them now from SAV"at"Amel.fr. It seems as though the steering rack normally lasts 20+ years. Cables usually last longer. Without replacement parts you will be forced to install a major steering change.
Email message to me from Uflex USA:
Ultraflex, Italy is in contact with Chantier Amel in France, apparently they will be able to supply them a last batch of cables. 
Uflex USA, Inc.

6442 Parkland Drive

Sarasota, FL 34243

www.uflexusa.com

--
 
Best,
 
Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Keel bolt cover

Mark Pitt
 

There is a keel bolt near the C drive that is covered in a thick black rubber sealant.  The sealant does not appear to be silicone based.  I have a tear in that black rubber cover, revealing the head of the bolt.  What product should be used to re-seal this bolt?  There are a number of “liquid rubber” products on the market.

 
Mark Pitt
Sabbatical III, SM419