Date   

Re: Prop Shaft Squeak

James Lochhead
 

Hi Dennis,

Yep tried that.  I need to do a rebuild on the alternator anyway.  Did you have any issues sourcing the bearings?
--

James
Maramu #147 (1984)


Re: Prop Shaft Squeak

James Lochhead
 

Thanks James,  I used your easier method last time.  Might try the "fancy" method now as it did not solve the issue.   Then if it continues at least I know it is not that.
--

James
Maramu #147 (1984)


Re: Prop Shaft Squeak

James Lochhead
 


-- Thanks Nick.  Your description is perfect.  I will have another go at the alignment.  Due to location and with no assistance around at the time I did it myself with only advice from other cruisers.

It is out of the water currently so I will try your proposal of the temporary bearing while out first when I get back to the boat and then check again once I get back in the water.  Will also get the prop shaft checked.

I have one other question if you could help.  Due to the prop shaft generator the belt pulley sits between the vetus coupling and the transmission.  I have attached some photos from another post that shows the arrangement.  from memory the 4 bolts shown on the photo "vetus coupler" bolt through the coupling and the pulley holding it all in place.
When measuring the the alignment access to the back of the transmission is limited due to the generator pulley.  I am not sure if there is enough length in the shaft to pull it forward without the pulley in place.  Do you have any thoughts on this?

Also it is only at certain revs that the squeak was occurring.  Very low revs and then between 1500-1800.

James
Maramu #147 (1984)


Re: Power Failure

 

Dennis, that created a dead short of the house bank. Something melted because there is enough amperage in the house bank to weld. Look for a burned wire. Also, try to find the shunt for the battery monitor. It may have blown because on your boat it is probably rated at 12 volts 200 amps or less...a dead short would have been more than 200 amps. It will be on the negative side. I am not sure if it will look burned, but you should check for continuity between the two large posts. I am not sure, but I think if the shunt is burned, the monitor will still work because of which side of the shunt it is connected. The shunt will look something like this and will be located close to the batteries:
image.png

It will be wired something like this:
image.png

Good luck.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 1:42 PM Bill Fletcher <bll.fletcher@...> wrote:
You need to get a meter and check the voltage at the main on off switch inside the engine compartment. If there is no voltage there there may be a fuse on the battery terminals that have blown. It is a place to start. 
Bill fletcher
Maramu sn179

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 10:26 AM sbmesasailor via Groups.Io <sbmesasailor=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Electrical issues are not my strong suit.  I had my house battery alternator off for a rebuild.  I took my Maramu out for a day sail and upon return to the harbor, my house power failed -everything, not even a dome light will come on.  Battery monitor showed 95% charge so the batteries were not spent.  In the engine compartment I discovered that a cable from the alternator had grounded to the mounting bracket which is bolted to the engine mounts.  I hope I have just blown a main fuse somewhere but I don't know where to begin my search.  Any ideas?

Thanks
Dennis
Libertad
Maramu #121


Re: Greasing stegring cables

 

Pat,

Steve would know better than any of us.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 10:20 AM Stephen Davis <flyboyscd@...> wrote:
Hi Pat,

I would suggest you do not attempt to add a grease fitting to the Racks. The steel racks take up almost all the room inside the black housing they are fitted into, and I’m not sure you can find a place to put the nipple.  Even if you could, the grease is not going to circulate adequately around the racks. When I took my racks apart, they were still packed full of grease after 27 years. If you are losing a lot of grease from your racks, something is probably not right, and you should take them apart. If you are just losing very small amounts of grease, don’t worry, the racks are very full of grease. 

Just my two cents worth, but having replaced my entire steering system (racks, pinion, and cables), I have a fairly good understanding of how it works. 

Regards,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Ko  Olina, Hawaii

On Nov 24, 2019, at 4:07 AM, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Bill , I may go ahead and try to add a nipple,if as you said the wall is too thin to tap , I will seal it by other means. I will in the future tie the wheel off center to spread the wear as per another owners suggestion a week or so back,a good idea. If the rack is steel, do you think it possible to replace the worn metal through welding in new material and then fashioning new teeth by filing.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 4:19 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

Pat,

I haven't considered that. I assume that you are referring to the racks...the steering cable is sealed.

I assume that the "leaking grease" is coming from the rack housing at one end or the other. If I recall these ends are not perfectly sealed. And as the toothed rack moves back and forth, it could push excess grease toward the ends of the rack housing.

Keep in mind that it is the steel toothed racks inside each rack housing that will fail with excess wear and that excess wear will be very close to the center of each rack. I believe this is wear caused by the autopilot "back and forth motion." It may also be caused by securing the helm in a center position while anchored.

Amel SAV said that they are going to be sourcing these steel toothed racks and have them available, even though the original manufacturer, Ultraflex, has stopped producing them. See the worn rack below:
<image.png>


One rack has teeth pointed upward, the other rack teeth are pointed downward. Tooth orientation, along with primarily 
center wear, should be considered when adding grease/fitting.
<image.png>

Translation:Corrugated Washer ---- Teflon half-rings

<image.png>


Possibly, the cover shown below can be drilled to inject grease. If so, this would be a fairly easy modification that could possibly add years of service to the racks. 
I am worried that the metal is to thin to take a thread tap. If that is true, possibly it could be drilled, grease injected and a rubber plug inserted. I know there are a few owners who can answer this question. We may need a volunteer to study this further.
<image.png>



--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 1:55 PM Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill, For some years now I have had a minor leak of grease from the rack&pinion . What do you think about adding a nipple to put a little grease back into the unit .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

The cables are sealed.

The racks and pinion have to be disassembled to add grease. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 7:32 AM Arthur Sundqvist <arthur@...> wrote:
How and where do I Grease the Steering Cables?
arthur sundqvist
sm435. Vista
Fair winds.....
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>


Re: Power Failure

Bill Fletcher
 

You need to get a meter and check the voltage at the main on off switch inside the engine compartment. If there is no voltage there there may be a fuse on the battery terminals that have blown. It is a place to start. 
Bill fletcher
Maramu sn179

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 10:26 AM sbmesasailor via Groups.Io <sbmesasailor=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Electrical issues are not my strong suit.  I had my house battery alternator off for a rebuild.  I took my Maramu out for a day sail and upon return to the harbor, my house power failed -everything, not even a dome light will come on.  Battery monitor showed 95% charge so the batteries were not spent.  In the engine compartment I discovered that a cable from the alternator had grounded to the mounting bracket which is bolted to the engine mounts.  I hope I have just blown a main fuse somewhere but I don't know where to begin my search.  Any ideas?

Thanks
Dennis
Libertad
Maramu #121


Re: Greasing stegring cables

Patrick McAneny
 

Steve, I have only over the years lost no more than a 1/4 of a cup if that. Based on what you describe there seems to be adequate lubrication to spare, and as much as I am not looking for any additional projects ,I think I will then put this one on  the back burner.
Thanks for the insight,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Davis <flyboyscd@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Nov 24, 2019 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

Hi Pat,

I would suggest you do not attempt to add a grease fitting to the Racks. The steel racks take up almost all the room inside the black housing they are fitted into, and I’m not sure you can find a place to put the nipple.  Even if you could, the grease is not going to circulate adequately around the racks. When I took my racks apart, they were still packed full of grease after 27 years. If you are losing a lot of grease from your racks, something is probably not right, and you should take them apart. If you are just losing very small amounts of grease, don’t worry, the racks are very full of grease. 

Just my two cents worth, but having replaced my entire steering system (racks, pinion, and cables), I have a fairly good understanding of how it works. 

Regards,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Ko  Olina, Hawaii

On Nov 24, 2019, at 4:07 AM, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> wrote:


Bill , I may go ahead and try to add a nipple,if as you said the wall is too thin to tap , I will seal it by other means. I will in the future tie the wheel off center to spread the wear as per another owners suggestion a week or so back,a good idea. If the rack is steel, do you think it possible to replace the worn metal through welding in new material and then fashioning new teeth by filing.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 4:19 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

Pat,

I haven't considered that. I assume that you are referring to the racks...the steering cable is sealed.

I assume that the "leaking grease" is coming from the rack housing at one end or the other. If I recall these ends are not perfectly sealed. And as the toothed rack moves back and forth, it could push excess grease toward the ends of the rack housing.

Keep in mind that it is the steel toothed racks inside each rack housing that will fail with excess wear and that excess wear will be very close to the center of each rack. I believe this is wear caused by the autopilot "back and forth motion." It may also be caused by securing the helm in a center position while anchored.

Amel SAV said that they are going to be sourcing these steel toothed racks and have them available, even though the original manufacturer, Ultraflex, has stopped producing them. See the worn rack below:
<image.png>


One rack has teeth pointed upward, the other rack teeth are pointed downward. Tooth orientation, along with primarily 
center wear, should be considered when adding grease/fitting.
<image.png>

Translation:Corrugated Washer ---- Teflon half-rings

<image.png>


Possibly, the cover shown below can be drilled to inject grease. If so, this would be a fairly easy modification that could possibly add years of service to the racks. 
I am worried that the metal is to thin to take a thread tap. If that is true, possibly it could be drilled, grease injected and a rubber plug inserted. I know there are a few owners who can answer this question. We may need a volunteer to study this further.
<image.png>



--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 1:55 PM Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill, For some years now I have had a minor leak of grease from the rack&pinion . What do you think about adding a nipple to put a little grease back into the unit .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

The cables are sealed.

The racks and pinion have to be disassembled to add grease. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 7:32 AM Arthur Sundqvist <arthur@...> wrote:
How and where do I Grease the Steering Cables?
arthur sundqvist
sm435. Vista
Fair winds.....
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>


Re: Greasing stegring cables

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

For everyone having rack problems, they are cast aluminium on our SM. Little wear showing on mine. 

Cheers

Jean-Pierre Germain. SY Eleuthera, SM 007



On 25/11/2019, at 3:07 AM, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> wrote:


Bill , I may go ahead and try to add a nipple,if as you said the wall is too thin to tap , I will seal it by other means. I will in the future tie the wheel off center to spread the wear as per another owners suggestion a week or so back,a good idea. If the rack is steel, do you think it possible to replace the worn metal through welding in new material and then fashioning new teeth by filing.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 4:19 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

Pat,

I haven't considered that. I assume that you are referring to the racks...the steering cable is sealed.

I assume that the "leaking grease" is coming from the rack housing at one end or the other. If I recall these ends are not perfectly sealed. And as the toothed rack moves back and forth, it could push excess grease toward the ends of the rack housing.

Keep in mind that it is the steel toothed racks inside each rack housing that will fail with excess wear and that excess wear will be very close to the center of each rack. I believe this is wear caused by the autopilot "back and forth motion." It may also be caused by securing the helm in a center position while anchored.

Amel SAV said that they are going to be sourcing these steel toothed racks and have them available, even though the original manufacturer, Ultraflex, has stopped producing them. See the worn rack below:
<image.png>


One rack has teeth pointed upward, the other rack teeth are pointed downward. Tooth orientation, along with primarily 
center wear, should be considered when adding grease/fitting.
<image.png>

Translation:Corrugated Washer ---- Teflon half-rings

<image.png>


Possibly, the cover shown below can be drilled to inject grease. If so, this would be a fairly easy modification that could possibly add years of service to the racks. 
I am worried that the metal is to thin to take a thread tap. If that is true, possibly it could be drilled, grease injected and a rubber plug inserted. I know there are a few owners who can answer this question. We may need a volunteer to study this further.
<image.png>



--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 1:55 PM Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill, For some years now I have had a minor leak of grease from the rack&pinion . What do you think about adding a nipple to put a little grease back into the unit .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

The cables are sealed.

The racks and pinion have to be disassembled to add grease. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 7:32 AM Arthur Sundqvist <arthur@...> wrote:
How and where do I Grease the Steering Cables?
arthur sundqvist
sm435. Vista
Fair winds.....
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>


Power Failure

sbmesasailor
 

Electrical issues are not my strong suit.  I had my house battery alternator off for a rebuild.  I took my Maramu out for a day sail and upon return to the harbor, my house power failed -everything, not even a dome light will come on.  Battery monitor showed 95% charge so the batteries were not spent.  In the engine compartment I discovered that a cable from the alternator had grounded to the mounting bracket which is bolted to the engine mounts.  I hope I have just blown a main fuse somewhere but I don't know where to begin my search.  Any ideas?

Thanks
Dennis
Libertad
Maramu #121


Re: Antal 120x18 Composite Fibre jib block

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Duane, sorry for the late reply, I have been at sea voyaging. Try washing the salt out with a fresh water hose and then when its  dry, spray it with silicone. A salt build up will stop or create friction in:blocks, cars, swivels and travelers.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 10 November 2019 at 02:26 "Duane Siegfri via Groups.Io" <carlylelk@...> wrote:

I'm wondering if the Antal 120x18 jib blocks on Wanderer need some TLC.  If you try to spin the sheave, there is too much friction to permit it to spin.  It can be turned with thumb and forefinger with enough resistance that one must grip tightly.

I looked on the Antal site but did not find a maintenance manual.  

Can anyone comment on the maintenance for this block?

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Prop Shaft Squeak

sbmesasailor
 

Hi James,

I believe you have a shaft alternator right?  Try disconnecting the belt and see if the squeak stops.  We had a squeak and it was the alternator bearings.

Dennis
Libertad
Maramu #121


Re: Greasing stegring cables

Stephen Davis
 

Hi Pat,

I would suggest you do not attempt to add a grease fitting to the Racks. The steel racks take up almost all the room inside the black housing they are fitted into, and I’m not sure you can find a place to put the nipple.  Even if you could, the grease is not going to circulate adequately around the racks. When I took my racks apart, they were still packed full of grease after 27 years. If you are losing a lot of grease from your racks, something is probably not right, and you should take them apart. If you are just losing very small amounts of grease, don’t worry, the racks are very full of grease. 

Just my two cents worth, but having replaced my entire steering system (racks, pinion, and cables), I have a fairly good understanding of how it works. 

Regards,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Ko  Olina, Hawaii

On Nov 24, 2019, at 4:07 AM, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> wrote:


Bill , I may go ahead and try to add a nipple,if as you said the wall is too thin to tap , I will seal it by other means. I will in the future tie the wheel off center to spread the wear as per another owners suggestion a week or so back,a good idea. If the rack is steel, do you think it possible to replace the worn metal through welding in new material and then fashioning new teeth by filing.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 4:19 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

Pat,

I haven't considered that. I assume that you are referring to the racks...the steering cable is sealed.

I assume that the "leaking grease" is coming from the rack housing at one end or the other. If I recall these ends are not perfectly sealed. And as the toothed rack moves back and forth, it could push excess grease toward the ends of the rack housing.

Keep in mind that it is the steel toothed racks inside each rack housing that will fail with excess wear and that excess wear will be very close to the center of each rack. I believe this is wear caused by the autopilot "back and forth motion." It may also be caused by securing the helm in a center position while anchored.

Amel SAV said that they are going to be sourcing these steel toothed racks and have them available, even though the original manufacturer, Ultraflex, has stopped producing them. See the worn rack below:
<image.png>


One rack has teeth pointed upward, the other rack teeth are pointed downward. Tooth orientation, along with primarily 
center wear, should be considered when adding grease/fitting.
<image.png>

Translation:Corrugated Washer ---- Teflon half-rings

<image.png>


Possibly, the cover shown below can be drilled to inject grease. If so, this would be a fairly easy modification that could possibly add years of service to the racks. 
I am worried that the metal is to thin to take a thread tap. If that is true, possibly it could be drilled, grease injected and a rubber plug inserted. I know there are a few owners who can answer this question. We may need a volunteer to study this further.
<image.png>



--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 1:55 PM Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill, For some years now I have had a minor leak of grease from the rack&pinion . What do you think about adding a nipple to put a little grease back into the unit .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

The cables are sealed.

The racks and pinion have to be disassembled to add grease. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 7:32 AM Arthur Sundqvist <arthur@...> wrote:
How and where do I Grease the Steering Cables?
arthur sundqvist
sm435. Vista
Fair winds.....
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>


Re: Greasing stegring cables

 

Pat,

I do not think it is possible to "replace the worn metal through welding in new material and then fashioning new teeth by filing."

Let me know how you fair on adding a grease port.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:07 AM Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill , I may go ahead and try to add a nipple,if as you said the wall is too thin to tap , I will seal it by other means. I will in the future tie the wheel off center to spread the wear as per another owners suggestion a week or so back,a good idea. If the rack is steel, do you think it possible to replace the worn metal through welding in new material and then fashioning new teeth by filing.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 4:19 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

Pat,

I haven't considered that. I assume that you are referring to the racks...the steering cable is sealed.

I assume that the "leaking grease" is coming from the rack housing at one end or the other. If I recall these ends are not perfectly sealed. And as the toothed rack moves back and forth, it could push excess grease toward the ends of the rack housing.

Keep in mind that it is the steel toothed racks inside each rack housing that will fail with excess wear and that excess wear will be very close to the center of each rack. I believe this is wear caused by the autopilot "back and forth motion." It may also be caused by securing the helm in a center position while anchored.

Amel SAV said that they are going to be sourcing these steel toothed racks and have them available, even though the original manufacturer, Ultraflex, has stopped producing them. See the worn rack below:
image.png

One rack has teeth pointed upward, the other rack teeth are pointed downward. Tooth orientation, along with primarily 
center wear, should be considered when adding grease/fitting.
image.png
Translation:Corrugated Washer ---- Teflon half-rings

image.png

Possibly, the cover shown below can be drilled to inject grease. If so, this would be a fairly easy modification that could possibly add years of service to the racks. 
I am worried that the metal is to thin to take a thread tap. If that is true, possibly it could be drilled, grease injected and a rubber plug inserted. I know there are a few owners who can answer this question. We may need a volunteer to study this further.
image.png


--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 1:55 PM Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill, For some years now I have had a minor leak of grease from the rack&pinion . What do you think about adding a nipple to put a little grease back into the unit .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

The cables are sealed.

The racks and pinion have to be disassembled to add grease. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 7:32 AM Arthur Sundqvist <arthur@...> wrote:
How and where do I Grease the Steering Cables?
arthur sundqvist
sm435. Vista
Fair winds.....


Re: Greasing stegring cables

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill , I may go ahead and try to add a nipple,if as you said the wall is too thin to tap , I will seal it by other means. I will in the future tie the wheel off center to spread the wear as per another owners suggestion a week or so back,a good idea. If the rack is steel, do you think it possible to replace the worn metal through welding in new material and then fashioning new teeth by filing.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 4:19 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

Pat,

I haven't considered that. I assume that you are referring to the racks...the steering cable is sealed.

I assume that the "leaking grease" is coming from the rack housing at one end or the other. If I recall these ends are not perfectly sealed. And as the toothed rack moves back and forth, it could push excess grease toward the ends of the rack housing.

Keep in mind that it is the steel toothed racks inside each rack housing that will fail with excess wear and that excess wear will be very close to the center of each rack. I believe this is wear caused by the autopilot "back and forth motion." It may also be caused by securing the helm in a center position while anchored.

Amel SAV said that they are going to be sourcing these steel toothed racks and have them available, even though the original manufacturer, Ultraflex, has stopped producing them. See the worn rack below:
image.png

One rack has teeth pointed upward, the other rack teeth are pointed downward. Tooth orientation, along with primarily 
center wear, should be considered when adding grease/fitting.
image.png
Translation:Corrugated Washer ---- Teflon half-rings

image.png

Possibly, the cover shown below can be drilled to inject grease. If so, this would be a fairly easy modification that could possibly add years of service to the racks. 
I am worried that the metal is to thin to take a thread tap. If that is true, possibly it could be drilled, grease injected and a rubber plug inserted. I know there are a few owners who can answer this question. We may need a volunteer to study this further.
image.png


--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 1:55 PM Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill, For some years now I have had a minor leak of grease from the rack&pinion . What do you think about adding a nipple to put a little grease back into the unit .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

The cables are sealed.

The racks and pinion have to be disassembled to add grease. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 7:32 AM Arthur Sundqvist <arthur@...> wrote:
How and where do I Grease the Steering Cables?
arthur sundqvist
sm435. Vista
Fair winds.....


Re: Prop Shaft Squeak

James Alton
 

James,

   I replaced the original Amel engine mounts on my Maramu #220 this year.  The part you have circled is the bronze stern tube which will extend into the hull.  It appeared that mine was bonded and glassed into the hull, it needs to be a rigid connection.  The stern tube provides the attachment for the short pc.  hose that the stuffing box gland attaches to, it is not supposed to be a bearing.  There should be relatively even clearance between the stern tube and the shaft which allows for some engine movement without the shaft touching anywhere.  As I understand things the cutlass bearing on our boats forms the aft bearing and the transmission bearing provides the front bearing to support the shaft.  Nick already mentioned the two most likely causes of your squeak but I will try to elaborate a little more.  Engine alignment is more than just getting the two faces of the coupling mated within a few thousandths, you also need to position shaft so that it is riding close to the center of the bronze stern tube so that it cannot touch.  The fancy way to set up this alignment is to remove the stuffing box and the short pc. of  hose and fit something solid like round rod of the right OD to hold rigidly hold the shaft in the very center of the stern tube, then to adjust your engine so that it is the correct height and also correctly positioned Port and Stb.  Once this is done you can do your actual alignment to get the coupling faces aligned.  An easier method that seems to work fine and can be done in the water is to decouple the shaft and by HAND force the shaft coupling to go as far as it will go up down and Port/Stb.  You will feel solid contact as you force the coupling to it’s limits as it touches the inside of the stern tube.  Note the relative displacement of the couplings to Port/Stb. and Up/Down and adjust the engine so that the displacement is the same top and bottom and side to side which will put the shaft pretty close to the center of the hole in the stern tube.  Once this is done,  align your coupling faces.  Also I initially only did a rough alignment on my engine because I knew that the new mounts would settle a bit and they did.  So after 50 hours I did a second alignment and sure enough the whole engine had settled a bit so brought it up.  

   As to the other possible causes of the squeak,  as Nick alluded is that the shaft could be bent.  You can often tell this when sailing with the engine off and the wheel turning.  If the back of the engine is moving around much in time with the shaft rotation, you could have a bent shaft,  if it is nice and smooth then probably not.

   One final possible cause of a squeak can be from having the stuffing box too tight.  With the new teflon packings you can pretty much tighten to the point where you don’t have any leakage but if you go too far the box begins to heat up, grab and squeak.  

Best of luck,

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220
Preveza,  Greece


On Nov 23, 2019, at 11:35 PM, James Lochhead <j_lochhead@...> wrote:

HI,

The attached photo is of the stuffing box and where the shaft on my maramu exits the boat.  Is the circled part another bearing that is glassed into the hull?

We have a "sqeak" or hum when the prop shaft is spinning at certain revs (both with engine and when sailing and free spinning) that we have not been able to diagnose.

The problem started following the failure of our engine mounts.  The engine mounts have been replaced and the cutless bearing was replaced at next haul out, however a squeak has remained on our last short cruise before hauling out again.  I have checked the engine alignment, the stuffing was replaced, but the squeak remained.

We will be back on the boat again in the new year and would like to eliminate the cause for this before going back in the water and if this is a bearing then possibly order one now.

--

James
Maramu #147 (1984) <Shaft photo.pdf>


Re: Prop Shaft Squeak

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi James,

1.  If the boat is ashore I would check that the shaft is true. You would need to pull it and take it to a machine shop.

2. I would check the engine alignment again. It is not easy to get spot on. One of the tricks I have learned is to decouple the shaft from the transmission and centre it within the stern tube. Then align the engine to the shaft.

On some systems the shaft is floating around and can be moved a lot as there is no bearing at the engine end of the stern tube. This would be the case with a modern drip free lip seal style stern gland. From the photo I think this is what you have. If there is shaft wiggle then make up a nylon bearing that slots into the stern tube at the front end, this involves removing the shaft seal, and sliding the nylon bearing over the shaft and into the stern tube. So there is a cutlass bearing aft and another nylon temporary bearing forward. This then centres the shaft spot on within the stern tube. With the shaft centred you then align the engine to it. It needs to be spot on. Then obviously remove the temporary nylon bearing, and put back the shaft seal.

The problem is that  it is much easier to do out of the water but the hull may take up a slightly different shape ashore, although if it has been carefully chocked and is nice and level a solid hull like a Maramu will probably not move much.

If in the water, I have used a  greased tape or plastic wrapped around the shaft and pushed into the cutlass bearing to reduce the flow. This works quite well, but water leaking into the boat adds a bit of stress.

There are other techniques, but this is my preferred.

Nick

S/Y Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece.




On 24 Nov 2019, at 03:35, James Lochhead <j_lochhead@...> wrote:

HI,

The attached photo is of the stuffing box and where the shaft on my maramu exits the boat.  Is the circled part another bearing that is glassed into the hull?

We have a "sqeak" or hum when the prop shaft is spinning at certain revs (both with engine and when sailing and free spinning) that we have not been able to diagnose.

The problem started following the failure of our engine mounts.  The engine mounts have been replaced and the cutless bearing was replaced at next haul out, however a squeak has remained on our last short cruise before hauling out again.  I have checked the engine alignment, the stuffing was replaced, but the squeak remained.

We will be back on the boat again in the new year and would like to eliminate the cause for this before going back in the water and if this is a bearing then possibly order one now.

--

James
Maramu #147 (1984) <Shaft photo.pdf>


Prop Shaft Squeak

James Lochhead
 

HI,

The attached photo is of the stuffing box and where the shaft on my maramu exits the boat.  Is the circled part another bearing that is glassed into the hull?

We have a "sqeak" or hum when the prop shaft is spinning at certain revs (both with engine and when sailing and free spinning) that we have not been able to diagnose.

The problem started following the failure of our engine mounts.  The engine mounts have been replaced and the cutless bearing was replaced at next haul out, however a squeak has remained on our last short cruise before hauling out again.  I have checked the engine alignment, the stuffing was replaced, but the squeak remained.

We will be back on the boat again in the new year and would like to eliminate the cause for this before going back in the water and if this is a bearing then possibly order one now.

--

James
Maramu #147 (1984)


Re: Supermaramu wire sizes?

 

I guess I should have just sent you the links.😀

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 5:33 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Thanks for the follow up Bill,  I did read about Scott on Tengh rewiring with 2x50mm2 for his 5000w inverter.  I believe others have installed the 3000w with the 100A wire. Can't recall the size inverter that Delos installed or if they rewired.  

I did a double take on the resulting wire size from your calculations and I redid them myself and cross checked on a different calculator before I realized that the wire length should be entered in meters not feet.  This results in a wire size of 50mm2 or 1AWG (actually 42.4mm2) for a 4 meter wire.  That is why I wanted to confirm the wire sizes.  My guestimate is that the 100Amp charger has a 50mm2 wire as it looks close to the size of another labeled 50mm wire on the boat.  Then the existing 1800watt inverter looks slightly smaller, like it has a 35mm2 wire and the wire to the inverter looks even smaller, perhaps 25mm.  The wire to the alternator is just a bit larger than the 100A charger, so that could be 70mm2, which would be appropriate for the 175 amp.   The wire to the bow thruster (longest run and highest current @ 300-400A) looks like a 4/0AWG length of have which is between the standard sizes of 95mm2 and 120mm2.

I'm pretty comfortable with the calculations, and I am really just looking for confirmation on the existing wire sizes.

Best regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387



On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 1:52 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@... wrote:
Dan,

Yes, the Amels that I have seen have increased the size of the wiring.

You might want to look at this:https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/dc-to-ac-amperage-conversion-run-through-an-inverter.html
3000 watts = 13.64 amps of 220 volts:
image.png
So the short answer is, assuming that the 24 volt wiring for the 100 charger watt was designed for 100 amps. You should NOT use that wire because you should expect a maximum of around 140 amps. Not good! So, replacement is going to be required. Since replacement is required, calculate the wiring size needed for the inverter/charger using an online calculator...here is one:  https://www.solar-wind.co.uk/info/dc-cable-wire-sizing-tool-low-voltage-drop-calculator  
image.png
I am not sure about the length of the cable run...I used 12 feet...it could be 15 feet.

The result above shows required wire is 120 mm2 = 12.4mm diameter, which is about 1/2" diameter

Hope this helps.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 11:30 AM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Hi Bill, yes I'm well aware of the different cable sizing standards.  But was looking for the reference data for the actual cables in the SM.  

The existing cables are well shielded and have shrink wrap covering right up to the terminal lug so the actual wire is not accessible for direct measurements. 

I am just trying to understand the sizes with respect to the various loads.  Several of boats have talked  of replacing the original Dolphin 100A with a 3000watt Victron Multi or Quatro and I wanted to understand the impact in terms of current load and voltage drop potential.  

Regards, Daniel Carlson

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 7:04 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@... wrote:
Dan,

I am sure that you know this: In Europe the wire is sized in square mm. 

You might want to measure the diameter of the existing wire, calculate the area of the cross-section in square mm, then if you need AWG, use an online conversation chart to get to AWG. Here is one: 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 5:32 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Hello SM owners,

Does anyone know the original
wire sizes for the following:
1) 100 amp charger to battery switch
2) 30 amp charger to battery switch
3) Battery switch to bow thruster

The wiring does not appear to be labeled. And I'm not a good judge by eye.

I'm in Panama right now trying to search the forum from my phone with my cell connection isn't working for me.

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on SM #387, sv BeBe


Re: Supermaramu wire sizes?

Dan Carlson
 

Thanks for the follow up Bill,  I did read about Scott on Tengh rewiring with 2x50mm2 for his 5000w inverter.  I believe others have installed the 3000w with the 100A wire. Can't recall the size inverter that Delos installed or if they rewired.  

I did a double take on the resulting wire size from your calculations and I redid them myself and cross checked on a different calculator before I realized that the wire length should be entered in meters not feet.  This results in a wire size of 50mm2 or 1AWG (actually 42.4mm2) for a 4 meter wire.  That is why I wanted to confirm the wire sizes.  My guestimate is that the 100Amp charger has a 50mm2 wire as it looks close to the size of another labeled 50mm wire on the boat.  Then the existing 1800watt inverter looks slightly smaller, like it has a 35mm2 wire and the wire to the inverter looks even smaller, perhaps 25mm.  The wire to the alternator is just a bit larger than the 100A charger, so that could be 70mm2, which would be appropriate for the 175 amp.   The wire to the bow thruster (longest run and highest current @ 300-400A) looks like a 4/0AWG length of have which is between the standard sizes of 95mm2 and 120mm2.

I'm pretty comfortable with the calculations, and I am really just looking for confirmation on the existing wire sizes.

Best regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387



On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 1:52 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@... wrote:
Dan,

Yes, the Amels that I have seen have increased the size of the wiring.

You might want to look at this:https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/dc-to-ac-amperage-conversion-run-through-an-inverter.html
3000 watts = 13.64 amps of 220 volts:
image.png
So the short answer is, assuming that the 24 volt wiring for the 100 charger watt was designed for 100 amps. You should NOT use that wire because you should expect a maximum of around 140 amps. Not good! So, replacement is going to be required. Since replacement is required, calculate the wiring size needed for the inverter/charger using an online calculator...here is one:  https://www.solar-wind.co.uk/info/dc-cable-wire-sizing-tool-low-voltage-drop-calculator  
image.png
I am not sure about the length of the cable run...I used 12 feet...it could be 15 feet.

The result above shows required wire is 120 mm2 = 12.4mm diameter, which is about 1/2" diameter

Hope this helps.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 11:30 AM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Hi Bill, yes I'm well aware of the different cable sizing standards.  But was looking for the reference data for the actual cables in the SM.  

The existing cables are well shielded and have shrink wrap covering right up to the terminal lug so the actual wire is not accessible for direct measurements. 

I am just trying to understand the sizes with respect to the various loads.  Several of boats have talked  of replacing the original Dolphin 100A with a 3000watt Victron Multi or Quatro and I wanted to understand the impact in terms of current load and voltage drop potential.  

Regards, Daniel Carlson

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 7:04 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@... wrote:
Dan,

I am sure that you know this: In Europe the wire is sized in square mm. 

You might want to measure the diameter of the existing wire, calculate the area of the cross-section in square mm, then if you need AWG, use an online conversation chart to get to AWG. Here is one: 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 5:32 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Hello SM owners,

Does anyone know the original
wire sizes for the following:
1) 100 amp charger to battery switch
2) 30 amp charger to battery switch
3) Battery switch to bow thruster

The wiring does not appear to be labeled. And I'm not a good judge by eye.

I'm in Panama right now trying to search the forum from my phone with my cell connection isn't working for me.

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on SM #387, sv BeBe


Re: Greasing stegring cables

 

Pat,

The potential grease port location I spoke of may be easy to reach on one rack, but I am not sure about the other. See below.
image.png

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 3:19 PM CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Pat,

I haven't considered that. I assume that you are referring to the racks...the steering cable is sealed.

I assume that the "leaking grease" is coming from the rack housing at one end or the other. If I recall these ends are not perfectly sealed. And as the toothed rack moves back and forth, it could push excess grease toward the ends of the rack housing.

Keep in mind that it is the steel toothed racks inside each rack housing that will fail with excess wear and that excess wear will be very close to the center of each rack. I believe this is wear caused by the autopilot "back and forth motion." It may also be caused by securing the helm in a center position while anchored.

Amel SAV said that they are going to be sourcing these steel toothed racks and have them available, even though the original manufacturer, Ultraflex, has stopped producing them. See the worn rack below:
image.png

One rack has teeth pointed upward, the other rack teeth are pointed downward. Tooth orientation, along with primarily 
center wear, should be considered when adding grease/fitting.
image.png
Translation:Corrugated Washer ---- Teflon half-rings

image.png

Possibly, the cover shown below can be drilled to inject grease. If so, this would be a fairly easy modification that could possibly add years of service to the racks. 
I am worried that the metal is to thin to take a thread tap. If that is true, possibly it could be drilled, grease injected and a rubber plug inserted. I know there are a few owners who can answer this question. We may need a volunteer to study this further.
image.png


--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 1:55 PM Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill, For some years now I have had a minor leak of grease from the rack&pinion . What do you think about adding a nipple to put a little grease back into the unit .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Nov 23, 2019 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Greasing stegring cables

The cables are sealed.

The racks and pinion have to be disassembled to add grease. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 7:32 AM Arthur Sundqvist <arthur@...> wrote:
How and where do I Grease the Steering Cables?
arthur sundqvist
sm435. Vista
Fair winds.....