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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
I do not think anyone argued the value of Julie's book. Some people wrote to me about it because they felt it was too commercial. "Too" is in the mind of individuals i We are currently working on a solution that will satisfy those for and against promoting commercial interests. We envision creating a sub-group for commercial postings that members would need to opt-in to the group. I may be a few days or a few weeks. --
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 10:57 AM Brian Riggs <7briggs@...> wrote:
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Re: Mobile communications - 4G, WiFi
Hi Micky,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I would love to give you that feedback, but we don’t step aboard until mid March. I would give a full report after that, though..... ~~~⛵️~~~Matt
On Jan 23, 2020, at 4:23 PM, mik-ball Ball <mik-ball@...> wrote:
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Re: Mobile communications - 4G, WiFi
Hi Matt , Thanks for letting us know what Amel have fitted to your boat , could you comment on how effective it is and in what situations you use it , ie berthed in home marina , visiting other marinas ,, in Europe or Elsewhere , Many Thanks , Micky Ball (Future Amel SM owner )
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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
Hi Kelly. Sorry we missed you guys in the Boston area this summer. Not quite sure what is meant by other AMEL-adjacent pursuits. I have seen several forum members who are quite active, who provide much-needed free and timely guidance to others, often help out when we need parts custom manufactured (and always provide this service at cost) or mention their relevant support services (after giving free advice). However, the post we are debating is form a source that is quite different. This was someone, not active on the forum, not an owner, who posted purely for selling reasons. This is what I take umbrage with. Apologies if I have missed or misinterpreted something Ian & Margaret S/V Loca Lola II SM153 Bahamas
On Jan 23, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Kelly Ran <naryllek@...> wrote:
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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
I’m sorry Kelly. I did mean you then! I guess I’m used to seeing Ryan and made the leap. Nice to meet you! Great minds and all that.....
Brent Cameron, Future Amel owner & Amel Owner's Registry Moderator
-- Brent Cameron Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
Brian Riggs
I've got both books in my Amazon cart now, and I'm looking forward to reading them. I would have never known about these two books without the blurb on here. I'm throwing my hand up in support of this type of advertising as well. Everything else has already been said. Cheer! Brian Riggs Future SM Owner Hampton Roads Area
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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
Kelly Ran
Hi Brent, I believe you were responding to me (Kelly), not my husband Ryan. We're both active on this list. Glad to hear we're in agreement, though. LOL! kelly (and ryan) SM233 Iteration Boston
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 11:26 AM Brent Cameron <brentcameron61@...> wrote:
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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
I also bought both books after seeing them advertised through this forum. Reading of another couple who sailed their Amel SM around the world is both informative and inspiring. After all this forum is about learning from other people’s experience and sharing information.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I support this form of advertisement. Ross and Donna SV INTREPID KIWI SM2K #356
On Thursday, January 23, 2020, 5:26 pm, Brent Cameron <brentcameron61@...> wrote:
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Re: Mobile communications - 4G, WiFi
Amel currently installs the World Pepwave, combined WiFi, 3g, 4g system. At least that is what they installed on our boat, completed last September.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
~~~⛵️~~~Matt
On Jan 23, 2020, at 6:25 AM, David Crisp <david@...> wrote:
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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
Ryan, I fully agree with you on this. I also read her first book and found it quite interesting… especially the parts about buying the Amel at the factory in La Rochelle and their very first experience in a Bay of Biscay storm taking it away and then learning more as they went on. I don’t see any difference either with some of the other posts here as you suggest. If it was a book about just sailing or something else and had no ties to Amel, then that would be different but, in my mind at least, it isn’t any different than other posters who loosely (in context) advertise their services or YouTube channels (which very often contain exactly the same kind of helpful advice as is found on these forums). I do very much appreciate that we aren’t subjected to a lot of advertising here but a single post taking about a new book about a trip doing what many of us buy Amel’s for that took place on an Amel is not out of place and I think people were too quick to shut it down without also looking at all of the other similar posts that others have no issue with. I think that anything that contributes to the brand or to our further understanding of the boats is fair game on these forums. I like the posts talking about the surveys, sails, schools, brokerages, maintenance and even just sailing places videos. Frankly, far more has already been written on this than the original post even took up. Anyway, that’s my two cents. For those who are triggered by these discussions, there is a link you can click when you first see the topic to “mute this topic” and you will never see anything on it (or Antennas if you like!) ever again. LOL
Brent Cameron, Future Amel owner & Amel Owner's Registry Moderator
-- Brent Cameron Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Mobile communications - 4G, WiFi
Ryan Meador
David, since you seem to be so interested in having an external LTE antenna (which I've never found the need for), might I suggest you get one of those hockey-puck portable hotspots? I've had good luck putting it in a waterproof bag and sending it up the mast on a halyard when I want to use it and bringing it back down to charge. That would also give you easy access to the SIM card. I stand by my original recommendation as a better, permanent solution. Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration Boston, MA, USA
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:29 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:
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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
Kelly Ran
FWIW I appreciated the original post. I bought Julie's first book and will consider buying the sequel. I had some minor quibbles with the first book, but in general, it was a pleasant read. I should think it pertains to all of our interests (and benefits us by raising Amel's profile). Not sure how this is any different from others advertising their Amel-adjacent pursuits. Thanks all! kelly + ryan SM233 Iteration Boston
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 9:33 AM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
The posting was removed, the person posting was talked to and their status set to "moderated." Best, CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 1:33 AM Dave Ritten <daveritten@...> wrote:
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Re: Mobile communications - 4G, WiFi
Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
David,
In my experiences, in the Med 3/4G has worked well, in the Caribbean wifi has given me a better service. If you do use wifi be aware that systems that use a USBL cable to connect to a receiver integrated in the base of an antenna, such as Redbox, will not work very well if the cable is too long. I have used Digital Yacht (coax to the antenna) and Bullet, also known as Webcatcher, and currently in use (RJ45 cable with PoE to the antenna) without problems but had no end of trouble with Redbox (USBL). I have never used a directional antenna. When I bought the Webcatcher in Martinique (Diginav in Le Marin) it came with a choice of three antenna sizes, and I took the middle one which was a good compromise between vertical beam width and range. Note that in rolly bays vertical beam width does become significant. This system has not failed me in four years. Note that my priority has always been reliability, then cost.
Cheers, Paul S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Crisp
Since my original post I have read the responses (thank you all) and trawled the web. There maybe others like me treading this path so I thought I’d share what I’ve learned/concluded so far. One caveat, I’m a very modestly technically literate sailor, definitely not an RF, electronics or networking engineer. If I have made any silly errors please let me know, I’m keen to learn.
I’m not currently aboard so doing much of my layout thinking from memory.
To recap the requirement: I’m going to be cruising the Mediterranean and want to be able to access the internet. Ideally, I’d like to able to get weather forecasts whilst coastal sailing offshore/between islands, subject to the limits of 4G coverage of course. Budget: Conscious that cheapest isn’t always the best, I’d rather spend a bit more to get performance and quality than save a bit but regret it later.
(a) Prioritise 4G/LTE over Wi-Fi. A number of people have commented how Wi-Fi systems are often overloaded and slow, that 4G provides better data rates.
(b) It’s more cost effective (and satisfying) to assemble my own system than buying a turnkey setup (e.g. DigitalYacht, Red Box etc). I’ve found a couple of exceptions to this but they have a major downside with the SIM card being badly located – more on this later.
(c) Antenna Use an external omni-directional antenna (vs. one down below).
Keep the cable run from antenna to modem/router as short as possible to minimise losses. Mounting the antenna high up is less important than keeping the cable run short. This leads me to thinking possible locations for the antenna are: mizzen spreader / aft rail or arch / between the backstays. Least attractive is on top of the mizzen mast due to the distance.
Use LMR-400 coax cable if the cable routing permits.
To get the benefit of 4G/LTE a MIMO antenna is needed. The Poynting OMNI-402 gets very good reviews on build quality but it’s expensive at UK£290 (https://www.solwise.co.uk/4g-antenna-omni-402). One or two articles seem to challenge the benefit of a MIMO antenna https://seabits.com/poynting-omni-antenna-testing/ and https://novaroundbritain.home.blog/2019/10/18/internet/ and maybe a simpler OMNI-291 (UK£144) SISO antenna would deliver pretty much the same performance (still very good build quality) but at half the cost.
I have looked at a couple of integrated solutions such as the WEBBOAT 4G LITE from Glomex (€609) https://shop.glomex.it/en/webboat-coastal-internet/660-it1104-webboat-coastal-internet-4g-wi-fi.html and Solwise QuSpot omni LTE/4G (UK£452) https://www.solwise.co.uk/WI-AX11S which have the antenna, 4G modem (SIM card) and router all integrated into the antenna dome. These look cost effective, eliminate antenna cable losses and look simpler to install however it means regular access to the SIM card is a problem if installed on a spreader or between the backstays. Why the need for SIM card access? From what I can understand there’s a need to either return to the UK with my UK SIM card every few months to maintain the EU roaming or to buy a SIM card in each country as the EU roaming expires. Either way regular access to the SIM card is needed.
(d) 4G Modem/Router The Teltonika RUT 240 (UK£124) https://www.solwise.co.uk/4g-routers-rut240.html looks like it’ll do the job. The LAN port means I can one day connect an NMEA bridge should I want to. One could spend a little more and get the Teltonika 950 (UK£166) https://www.solwise.co.uk/4g-routers-rut950.html as this has 3 LAN ports which leave room for more expansion.
Location of the router will be determined by where the antenna cable enters from above (I’m not aboard at present). I’m assuming with a GRP structure WiFi propagation from the pilot berth or aft cabin (likely router locations) throughout the boat should be adequate, certainly to the saloon and aft cabin.
(e) WiFi Assuming marina/cafe provided WiFi data capacity will be usually poor I may still buy a WL-Patriot-DB (UK£87) https://www.solwise.co.uk/wireless-Patriot-DB to at least try in each location. This would plug into the WAN port of the router. It’s powered over ethernet which simplifies matters. I’d either locate it somewhere inside or stick it outside temporarily via a porthole maybe. It’s IP65 rated so if its outside in a rain shower it should be okay, but I’d be reluctant to mount it permanently outside.
Comments and suggestions encouraged. -- -- Cheers Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
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Re: Mobile communications - 4G, WiFi
David Crisp
Since my original post I have read the responses (thank you all) and trawled the web. There maybe others like me treading this path so I thought I’d share what I’ve learned/concluded so far. One caveat, I’m a very modestly technically literate sailor, definitely not an RF, electronics or networking engineer. If I have made any silly errors please let me know, I’m keen to learn.
I’m not currently aboard so doing much of my layout thinking from memory.
To recap the requirement: I’m going to be cruising the Mediterranean and want to be able to access the internet. Ideally, I’d like to able to get weather forecasts whilst coastal sailing offshore/between islands, subject to the limits of 4G coverage of course. Budget: Conscious that cheapest isn’t always the best, I’d rather spend a bit more to get performance and quality than save a bit but regret it later.
(a) Prioritise 4G/LTE over Wi-Fi. A number of people have commented how Wi-Fi systems are often overloaded and slow, that 4G provides better data rates.
(b) It’s more cost effective (and satisfying) to assemble my own system than buying a turnkey setup (e.g. DigitalYacht, Red Box etc). I’ve found a couple of exceptions to this but they have a major downside with the SIM card being badly located – more on this later.
(c) Antenna Use an external omni-directional antenna (vs. one down below).
Keep the cable run from antenna to modem/router as short as possible to minimise losses. Mounting the antenna high up is less important than keeping the cable run short. This leads me to thinking possible locations for the antenna are: mizzen spreader / aft rail or arch / between the backstays. Least attractive is on top of the mizzen mast due to the distance.
Use LMR-400 coax cable if the cable routing permits.
To get the benefit of 4G/LTE a MIMO antenna is needed. The Poynting OMNI-402 gets very good reviews on build quality but it’s expensive at UK£290 (https://www.solwise.co.uk/4g-antenna-omni-402). One or two articles seem to challenge the benefit of a MIMO antenna https://seabits.com/poynting-omni-antenna-testing/ and https://novaroundbritain.home.blog/2019/10/18/internet/ and maybe a simpler OMNI-291 (UK£144) SISO antenna would deliver pretty much the same performance (still very good build quality) but at half the cost.
I have looked at a couple of integrated solutions such as the WEBBOAT 4G LITE from Glomex (€609) https://shop.glomex.it/en/webboat-coastal-internet/660-it1104-webboat-coastal-internet-4g-wi-fi.html and Solwise QuSpot omni LTE/4G (UK£452) https://www.solwise.co.uk/WI-AX11S which have the antenna, 4G modem (SIM card) and router all integrated into the antenna dome. These look cost effective, eliminate antenna cable losses and look simpler to install however it means regular access to the SIM card is a problem if installed on a spreader or between the backstays. Why the need for SIM card access? From what I can understand there’s a need to either return to the UK with my UK SIM card every few months to maintain the EU roaming or to buy a SIM card in each country as the EU roaming expires. Either way regular access to the SIM card is needed.
(d) 4G Modem/Router The Teltonika RUT 240 (UK£124) https://www.solwise.co.uk/4g-routers-rut240.html looks like it’ll do the job. The LAN port means I can one day connect an NMEA bridge should I want to. One could spend a little more and get the Teltonika 950 (UK£166) https://www.solwise.co.uk/4g-routers-rut950.html as this has 3 LAN ports which leave room for more expansion.
Location of the router will be determined by where the antenna cable enters from above (I’m not aboard at present). I’m assuming with a GRP structure WiFi propagation from the pilot berth or aft cabin (likely router locations) throughout the boat should be adequate, certainly to the saloon and aft cabin.
(e) WiFi Assuming marina/cafe provided WiFi data capacity will be usually poor I may still buy a WL-Patriot-DB (UK£87) https://www.solwise.co.uk/wireless-Patriot-DB to at least try in each location. This would plug into the WAN port of the router. It’s powered over ethernet which simplifies matters. I’d either locate it somewhere inside or stick it outside temporarily via a porthole maybe. It’s IP65 rated so if its outside in a rain shower it should be okay, but I’d be reluctant to mount it permanently outside.
Comments and suggestions encouraged. David Crisp SV Wilna Grace Amel 54 #58
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Re: Crossing Pirate Waters
Dave Ritten
I hate this spam advertising. It feels bad. -- Dave Ritten Auckland Prospective SM Owner
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Re: Support the Amel Yacht Owners Group
#donation-request
This was awesome to see!!!!
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama www.creampuff.us
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On
Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
I closed the Donation because we have received about 3 year's worth of donations. Best,
On Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 4:36 PM main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
<main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
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Re: Mobile communications - 4G, WiFi
Good catch Gerard! I meant the Rod Antennas in your terminology of course. I was referring to the fact that rather than a simple 1/4 wavelength antenna that is Omni directional (like our sailing VHF/AIS antennas) or the ones you see on home routers, the Rod ones are relatively flat in the horizontal plane. Your highly directional antennas of course are much better but then need to be aimed at the source as your diagrams show. Sorry for the confusion. I’ll blame it on my iPhone! LOL.
Brent Cameron, Future Amel owner & Amel Owner's Registry Moderator
-- Brent Cameron Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Mobile communications - 4G, WiFi
Jorge, I use a UK three SIM for when I’m travelling in Europe and they have a wonderful roaming plan. I get about 20G for 15 British Pounds (you can even get unlimited for about twice that). and it works in over 90 countries including many of the islands in the Caribbean (not Bermuda or Mexico though). I got it on Amazon and I do the top ups from PayPal so it works even though I don’t have a Uk credit card or address.
Brent Cameron, Future Amel owner & Amel Owner's Registry Moderator
-- Brent Cameron Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Mobile communications - 4G, WiFi
Gerhard Mueller
Brent
Do you have mixed the idioms "directional antenna" and "rod antenna" perhaps? Please see the diagrams above to make things clear. Would you like I post a picture of a rod antenna and a directional antenna to see its difference? -- Gerhard Mueller Amel Sharki #60 Currently Kalamata, Greece
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