Date   
Re: SSB Ground

Wolfgang Weber
 

Testing with SWR- Meter from exampel Diawa is an easy test or look for help by a local HAM-radio Club. Try to google your Location and Ham-radio Club.  
Wolfgang Do8ww 
SY Elise Amel 54#162

Re: SSB Ground

Daniel Frey
 
Edited

I would test the SWR (stand wave ratio) of your system. It tells you how much energy which is going out is reflected. With a device like this: (there are others which can do the same)

https://www.radioworld.co.uk/daiwa_cn-101l_meter_1_8-150mhz

And by the way: do you speak loud and clear when you transmit, and close to the microphone... ? 😉

Did you mention what type/brand of SSB you have?

Re: SSB Ground

Herbert Lackner
 

Joerg, 

* what cable did you use for connecting the antenna with the tuner? should be a GTO-15 and no coax / copper cable. This is sometimes the problem.
* make sure that this cable is away from other metallic objects and that it is as short as possible, it is already part of the antenna - and the area where most of the power is transmitted
* connection from this cable to the antenna (and tuner) is critical! minimum resistance necessary!

checking/measuring/testing the system (standing wave ratio etc.) needs some specific technical HAM radio knowledge.

herbert, SN120

Re: SSB Ground

Joerg Esdorn
 

Thanks very much everyone for responding.  I had thought I would disconnect the tank from the common ships ground and connect it to the SSB ground.  I have been checking my connections since the boat was new in 2016 and replaced the cable from the transmitter to the tuner, replaced the antenna cable from the tuner to the whip - connection to the whip was not good, replaced the cable connecting the Dynaplates to the tuner with copper tape.  All these things have made a difference between nobody hearing me to people now hearing me ok some of the time.  But as I said in the original post, I still often  have the situation where I can hear another boat quite well yet they cannot hear me.  This indicates to me that my transmission isn’t as good as that of the other boat.  I have been told that the whip antenna is not as good as the insulated backstay on most boats in low frequencies - the MedNet mostly operates on the 6 MHz band.  So that may be one reason.  Dave, many thanks for sending the troubleshooting articles.  What instruments do I need to test the system?  

Re: Changing engine bearings Amel Mango Perkins 4.236

Ellen Cahill
 

Hi Frederic,

Did amel supply these parts for you? I'm hoping to replace the same mounts in the coming weeks as the engine is out of our Mango.

Thanks,
Ellen

Re: SSB Ground

Herbert Lackner
 

HF shall do no harm neither to the Amel bonding system nor to all connected metals, even if transmitting with high power. It is the DC connection that has to be avoided, and this DC connection will be created by attaching tuner ground to the bonding system. To avoid that this connection has to be "DC separated" by capacitors (HF coupling capacitors, bunch of them soldered together), then the bonding system can be used as a nice HF ground without negative impact.  Only if there is no dynaplate!

herbert, SN120

Re: SSB Ground

Dave Ritten
 

Hi Joerg I believe that it is hard to improve on a direct connection system using dynaplates. If the connections are good and the dynaplates are relatively clean then I am not sure that extending the ground by adding capacitively coupled (internal foil) or bulk (tanks/engine) will increase performance. A while back I came across an article (which now I can't find!) which was doing a relative test of a KISS counterfoil and other options, they found that a simple connection to a bronze through hole gave very good performance.  I would first be focussing on power to the radio, cabling connections and condition, antenna etc. No doubt you have been through those tests but I attach a useful article that gives some guidelines about trouble shooting marine systems. Having a good SWR meter and a dummy load are invaluable tools in working through a process of elimination. In my experience bad connections due to crimp only PL251 connectors and corroded terminals/cable often is a problem on TX. All PL251 connectors must be soldered. Replacing the ATU/antenna connection and checking that it's routing is clear is also another gotcha. Antennae also fail - try the antenna test in the article. When trying to fine tune a system the biggest issue is measurement - how do you actually know that your system is underperforming when there are so many variables like propagation conditions etc. You have to rely on distant boats to call out what your transmission is like and that is very subjective based on their opinion, location and their receiver etc. I discovered a neat trick recently - there is a global network of enthusiasts who run software defined radios (SDR) that you can connect to over the internet. These SDR's were developed in NZ and known as the kiwisdr. Basically you fire up a browser on your laptop, connect to one of the kiwisdr hosts like https://ve3sun.com/KiwiSDR/  and then you can select an active receiver close to you and tune it to whatever HF frequency you want. You can then listen on your laptop to what that receiver is picking up. You then setup to transmit on that frequency and away you go - you can listen to yourself, as received by that site. This allows you to make incremental changes to your system and see if they make any difference. You can change frequencies and start running really definitive tests. You can change receivers to see how far you can transmit! For example you could attach a temporary strap to your fuel tank and see if that makes a difference, or get a sheet of copper and hang it over the side of the boat. I hope that this helps, at least I am sure that you will find it interesting to play with the kiwisdr network as it is fascinating to listen to what you can pick up on radio receivers scattered around the world.
Best Rgds

   --
Dave Ritten
Auckland
Prospective SM Owner

Re: SSB Ground

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello Joerg,

all the metal parts of your AMEL 55 (including your fuel tank) are connected together with the green/yellow wiring net and with the zinc anodes of your rudder EXCEPT the SSB ground-plates, tuner and transceiver.

DON'T CONNECT the SSB ground plates to anything else, especially the general zinc ground circuit !!!

You would then send a lot of power to all these metal parts while transmitting (moreover if you speak loud!).

The HF-SSB radio system must absolutely be isolated from anything else, including yourself (don't touch the antenna while trasmitting).

Moreover, connecting to something which is not in contact with water (your fuel tank) would not dispatch more power (the purpose of the ground plates is to dispatch the excess of power while transmitting).

You'd better:
- check all your connections on the SSB system
-clean the ground plates thoroughly (with some acid stuff in order to remove the scaling)
-check the continuity (0 Ohm) between the ground plates and the copper strap in the lazarette and the transceiver ground terminal
-check the good contact on your whip antenna

Good luck and be prudent with electrics.

Olivier.

Re: SSB Ground

 

Heinz,

I believe most of that area in an SM is a false floor that is glassed in above the actual hull.

Bill
--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 2:00 PM heinz@... <heinz@...> wrote:
I was suggested by an expert to line the entire floor of the stern locker with copper foil and then solder it to the ground of the antenna

Fair Winds HEINZ 
Quetzal, Sm 2000, 292

Am 30.01.2020 um 20:06 schrieb Daniel Frey <Daniel.m.frey@...>:



[Edited Message Follows]

On my boat 90% of Electric and electronic Problems are Connection Problems. This also applies to the SSB radio installation. I would check all the connections from start to end for corrosion and weak contacts.

And remember: the antenna starts with the wire from the tuner to the whip antenna (or isolated stag): no contact or approximity to other wires.

If not done already, check the SWR (stand wave ratio) of Your installation with an appropriate device. It gives you a hint of how much of the radios Energy that should go out is reflected.


Re: SSB Ground

heinz@quetzal.berlin
 

I was suggested by an expert to line the entire floor of the stern locker with copper foil and then solder it to the ground of the antenna

Fair Winds HEINZ 
Quetzal, Sm 2000, 292

Am 30.01.2020 um 20:06 schrieb Daniel Frey <Daniel.m.frey@...>:



[Edited Message Follows]

On my boat 90% of Electric and electronic Problems are Connection Problems. This also applies to the SSB radio installation. I would check all the connections from start to end for corrosion and weak contacts.

And remember: the antenna starts with the wire from the tuner to the whip antenna (or isolated stag): no contact or approximity to other wires.

If not done already, check the SWR (stand wave ratio) of Your installation with an appropriate device. It gives you a hint of how much of the radios Energy that should go out is reflected.

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello Bill,

nothing to add so far. That's just a perfect information.

Olivier

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He all when the flap is not in stock by Amel , maybe you find it here 

Best 
Elja 
SY Balu 
SM 222

https://www.segelladen.de/Inhalt-untergruppen17/spiegeldurchfuehrung.htm

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Re: SSB Ground

Daniel Frey
 
Edited

On my boat 90% of Electric and electronic Problems are Connection Problems. This also applies to the SSB radio installation. I would check all the connections from start to end for corrosion and weak contacts.

And remember: the antenna starts with the wire from the tuner to the whip antenna (or isolated stag): no contact or approximity to other wires.

If not done already, check the SWR (stand wave ratio) of Your installation with an appropriate device. It gives you a hint of how much of the radios Energy that should go out is reflected.

If Nothing helps, open the tuner and check whether everything is ok or there are signs of Burning.

Re: SSB Ground

Herbert Lackner
 

to be more specific:  Your ground is the sea. So you need a good electrical (HF - high frequency connection) to sea-water. This is done by your dynaplate. If you connect your bonding system you will make your HF connection to the sea better, but you will probably connect Battery (-) via the tuner to the bonding system, this is what you do not want. But you can do that, if you make sure that there is only a HF connection from tuner to the bonding system, this can be done by making the connection using capacitors. They will block any DC connection but will allow HF. This is the typical installation on steel hull boats.

If you glue copper foil to your bottom you are building big capacitors (foil - grp - water) that also allow HF running through it. Just adding metal (like your tank) without connection to the water does not really help...

herbert, SN120

Re: SSB Ground

Herbert Lackner
 

Hi Joerg,

in my opinion there should be no need of adding additional ground, make sure that the connections are clean, no corrosion on any contacts, from tranceiver to tuner to antenna!, and also check the ground connections for contact / corrosion. Also check the dynaplate if it is clean and not painted...  Transmitting problems are very often connection problems on the path to the antenna (antenna - tuner connection...)

If you decide to add anything else to your ground system that is connected to the bonding system (and this is the only thing that will make your ground better, or - of course - copper foil) then make sure that you put capacitors between tuner and bonding so that there is no DC connection between your tuners ground and the bonding so that only HF can pass.

Kali Mera has no dynaplate, I use the bonding as HF ground, but separate it with capacitors so that omly HF can pass it, that works fine and does not change the Amel bonding philosophy. Bills idea is also good, but it might be a too small area for effective grounding.

herbert, SN120

Re: Steyr motor turbocharger complete

ngtnewington Newington
 

On Amelia we have the  Volvo Penta D3 110. 

In the Volvo manual that came with the boat, in it’s  original Amel folder, there was a note to say that as a matter of maintenance one should spray  lubricant like WD40, onto the actuator lever on the turbo and work it as it has a tendency to seize.

This is something that I regularly do.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece.

On 30 Jan 2020, at 16:58, Jose Alegria <Josealegr@...> wrote:

Thank you Mark


Jose Alegria
Amel55 #03-MERIT
+351918663037



No dia 30/01/2020, às 17:38, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> escreveu:


Sorry I have not responded sooner, have been off the boat without internet for a bit.  On the Volvo D3 – 110 you can see the round vacuum actuator attached to a rod that leads up to an eccentric or cam on the turbo.  Although Volvo calls this a variable geometry actuator, fancy terminology for a way to change the angle of the blades to change the amount of boost pressure as engine load changes.  Mine was sticking and giving an engine error code.  Virtually every company I talked with said the turbo had to be rebuilt.  I found a very helpful Volvo dealership that sent me the attached service bulletin.  I sprayed the actuator and eccentric then worked both back and forth with a screwdriver to free it up, my problem was solved.  This may be the issue you are having. 

--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54
<D3 Turbo Actuator Service, 29-0-002A.pdf>

Re: Steyr motor turbocharger complete

Jose Alegria
 

Thank you Mark


Jose Alegria
Amel55 #03-MERIT
+351918663037
Josealegr@...



No dia 30/01/2020, às 17:38, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> escreveu:



Sorry I have not responded sooner, have been off the boat without internet for a bit.  On the Volvo D3 – 110 you can see the round vacuum actuator attached to a rod that leads up to an eccentric or cam on the turbo.  Although Volvo calls this a variable geometry actuator, fancy terminology for a way to change the angle of the blades to change the amount of boost pressure as engine load changes.  Mine was sticking and giving an engine error code.  Virtually every company I talked with said the turbo had to be rebuilt.  I found a very helpful Volvo dealership that sent me the attached service bulletin.  I sprayed the actuator and eccentric then worked both back and forth with a screwdriver to free it up, my problem was solved.  This may be the issue you are having. 


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54
<D3 Turbo Actuator Service, 29-0-002A.pdf>

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

To try and mitigate this problem a 12 V normally open (NO) valve could be connected to the muffler drain.  12 V power can be obtained from a ship’s system such as the engine exhaust fan that only operates when the engine is running.  When the engine runs and the valve is energized, it will close blocking the drain line and keeping the engine exhaust contained; with the engine off and power removed the valve would return to its NO position and allow any water in the muffler or any water that subsequently enters the muffler to drain to the bilge.  Ahead of the solenoid valve I would install a manual ball valve as a backup in case the solenoid fails and not knowing what kind of contaminants are in the muffler consider installing a small filter.

 

I ran this idea by another forum member that is very knowledgeable about all things Amel.  His comment was “Do you think your idea is childproof?”.  It is not completely childproof since it is an active system however it is a way to mitigate the problem and I believe follows the KISS principle.  Additionally, it would be relatively inexpensive to implement while providing an alternative safeguard for the very expensive engine repair.


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54

Re: SSB Ground

 

Joerg,

I am no SSB expert. Sometimes I think there is as much art to "fine-tuning" an SSB system as there is science. Maybe you need advice from one of those "artists."

You want to be careful in connecting anything that is connected to the bonding system and I believe your fuel tank is bonded. If so, connecting to it will connect you to everything that is bonded. Several SSB experts that I know suggest using resin to attach copper foil to the inside of the hull below the waterline to increase the ground area. Check the area I shaded which is inside your watertight steering compartment. I believe this is the actual hull rather than a false bottom. This area should be close enough to your Tuner to connect. Maybe covering this area with copper foil will give you a better ground. 
image.png

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:59 AM Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
On my boat, I have the Amel provided SSB installation with the whip antenna and 2 dynaplates on the skeg as ground.  I've participated in the MedNet a bit over the last couple of years and have noticed that I often can hear boats yet they cannot hear me or can hear only a weak signal.  More often then not, my transmission seems to come in weak.  I have spoken to a number of SSB experts in the last couple of years and made some modifications to the installation which have been somewhat successful.  I still think that I my SSB creates a weaker signal than most others.  I've now spoken to another expert here on the US West Coast who suggests to increase the amount of ground the boat has by connecting more metal inside the boat to the ground system.  I'm thinking of connecting the fuel tank to the SSB ground, for example.  The connection would be by 7 cm wide copper tape - so it's not an easy thing to do as the fuel tank and the Antenna tuner are separated by a watertight bulkhead.  Has anyone done this or done something else that has helped?  

Many thanks for any advice!  Cheers Joerg

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53, Kincsem


Re: Steyr motor turbocharger complete

Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

Sorry I have not responded sooner, have been off the boat without internet for a bit.  On the Volvo D3 – 110 you can see the round vacuum actuator attached to a rod that leads up to an eccentric or cam on the turbo.  Although Volvo calls this a variable geometry actuator, fancy terminology for a way to change the angle of the blades to change the amount of boost pressure as engine load changes.  Mine was sticking and giving an engine error code.  Virtually every company I talked with said the turbo had to be rebuilt.  I found a very helpful Volvo dealership that sent me the attached service bulletin.  I sprayed the actuator and eccentric then worked both back and forth with a screwdriver to free it up, my problem was solved.  This may be the issue you are having. 


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54