Date   

locked Re: Barred from St Maarten

eric freedman
 

Hi Amo,

Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate them.

I have been coming to St Maarten for over 22 years and know many people in office and

In official positions.

Hank from Avocation is a friend of mine and it just hurt me to hear his tale.

When I get back to my favorite island , please drop by Kimberlite for a beer.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Arno Luijten
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 8:25 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Barred from St Maarten

 

Hi Eric,

I'm a resident of St. Maarten.
I will not try to defend the gouvenment of St. Maarten as these are as incompentent as they get in the Caribbean. However the current situation in the world makes even the most "civilised" country a madhouse for regulations. Please show me a country that hasn't come up with measures that seem downright silly at this point in time. None of the country's (if you want to call them that) in the Caribbean is prepared for these kind of problems, so please cut them some slack. It's not easy for the officials to apply the rules if the government changes them almost every hour.
The fact that St. Maarten uses double standards is a fact know to everyone in the Caribbean and there are very few Island that act differently. It how the Caribbean operates, no thanks to the former colonists.

So I feel sorry for you that your plans are blocked for now but you are not the only one and everybody is trying to circumvent the rules in ways they see fit. So I would not like to be a "official" at this point in time no matter how crazy they can be during normal times.
The support St. Maarten gets from the Dutch government (being part of the same Kingdom) is quite sad as well.

So if this a a proof of anything it's the proof we still have a long way to go as humanity to properly rule the world.

Just my two cents.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


locked Re: Barred from St Maarten

eric freedman
 

Good afternoon Alexandre,

Thank You for keeping an eye on Kimberlite !!

 

I completely understand the logic about not letting anyone on to the island. However Hank offered to self quarantine outside the bridge for 14 days.

 

Secondly did you notice this in his email? I cannot understand why this anomaly happened – I guess money talks.

 

What I left out in my article is that I watched the Mega Yacht “Seven Sins” make the bridge the day after I arrived and was at anchor refused entry.  So they can break the rules for some boats, but not others. Please pass this on to your friend. They can make exceptions for those who have money, but not for friends like me. The boat had several guests and more crew aboard and came from St. Bart’s, one of the infected islands.  I made sure I did not stop in a French island, but that did not matter after all, did it?. I tell the people from SXM who have responded with the same reply, “Don’t make excuses for your badly trained and surly customs agents.”  The locals never have to deal with them and we know better. So don’t buy that cr*p about they are just following the rules. Bull*hit!

 

My town on Long Island, Huntington, is the epicenter of the virus on Long Island with more than 1000 cases.

New York state had almost 2000 deaths yesterday. We are all aware of the hazards of the virus. The projection for the USA and the peak of the deaths in the USA will occur about April 14 with about 2500 deaths that day. It just annoyed me that they let the big yacht in and did not allow Hank to stay at anchor for 14 days.

 

Please stay safe and say hello to my friends on the island.

 

I am looking forward to seeing you soon.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

 


locked Re: Barred from St Maarten

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Eric,

I'm a resident of St. Maarten.
I will not try to defend the gouvenment of St. Maarten as these are as incompentent as they get in the Caribbean. However the current situation in the world makes even the most "civilised" country a madhouse for regulations. Please show me a country that hasn't come up with measures that seem downright silly at this point in time. None of the country's (if you want to call them that) in the Caribbean is prepared for these kind of problems, so please cut them some slack. It's not easy for the officials to apply the rules if the government changes them almost every hour.
The fact that St. Maarten uses double standards is a fact know to everyone in the Caribbean and there are very few Island that act differently. It how the Caribbean operates, no thanks to the former colonists.

So I feel sorry for you that your plans are blocked for now but you are not the only one and everybody is trying to circumvent the rules in ways they see fit. So I would not like to be a "official" at this point in time no matter how crazy they can be during normal times.
The support St. Maarten gets from the Dutch government (being part of the same Kingdom) is quite sad as well.

So if this a a proof of anything it's the proof we still have a long way to go as humanity to properly rule the world.

Just my two cents.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


locked Re: Barred from St Maarten

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Eric, 


Advocation has been the gossip of the island. 

But I think, he needs to understand that since the 22nd, the island is in complete shut down, no one, not even the “resident” are allowed to come in.  

This was announced 5 days before he arrived…. 


It is for safety measures.  Sint Maarten has very little medical resources and can not take any chances… 

Already our case jump from 6 to 16 plus as many on the French side.  

That is 3 time the world average...  

People on critical condition on the French side are flown to Guadeloupe where they usually arrive too late.  

One just died yesterday on the Dutch Side.  


About boats passing the bridge: 

vessels already here have the right to pass the bridge, just like people can use their dinghy or people can walk in the street.  


Being in Sint Maarten, I am very impressed on how the government is taking initiatives, sure they are strict,  but I think proportional to the risk and its consequences.  Keep in mind Hurricane Irma is a very vivid memory in all of us.  


On a personal note; I haven’t been able/allowed to go back to Kimberlite, but I checked with binocular.  

When the curfew is lift, I will be glad to assist.  


Sincerely, Alexandre




On Wednesday, April 1, 2020, 10:57:49 PM UTC, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:


 

 

Hi,

I was planning on flying down to Kimberlite which is in St Maarten last Tuesday. Unfortunately the island was closed as of last Monday.
Since Pantaenius is not renewing any policies, I need an out of water survey. It looks like I won’t be able to get to St Marten till June, my policy expires June 10. I spoke to my friends on the island and even my friend ,chief inspector of police, said there was nothing he could do for me.

 

Please read what happened to my friend Hank Schmitt he Owns OPO which finds crew for boat owners at no cost to the owners. Please read the link when he attempted to land on St Maarten—also read his additional

Comments at the end –

The “Friendly Island”  B.S.

Please pass it on.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

Dear OPO Members and Fellow Sailors,

These are trying times, especially when you are denied entry into you winter home port of refuge. For pictures and full story can be found at:

WaveTrain: https://wavetrain.net/2020/03/29/evicted-from-sxm-virus-tales-from-the-caribbean/

This is Charlie Doane’s Blog and safe to open. It will also be included in the April 1st “OPO Notice to Mariners” along with other news which you will get if you are an OPO member.

Enjoy

And stay safe!

Hank Schmitt

OPO

What I left out in my article is that I watched the Mega Yacht “Seven Sins” make the bridge the day after I arrived and was at anchor refused entry.  So they can break the rules for some boats, but not others. Please pass this on to your friend. They can make exceptions for those who have money, but not for friends like me. The boat had several guests and more crew aboard and came from St. Bart’s, one of the infected islands.  I made sure I did not stop in a French island, but that did not matter after all, did it?. I tell the people from SXM who have responded with the same reply, “Don’t make excuses for your badly trained and surly customs agents.”  The locals never have to deal with them and we know better. So don’t buy that cr*p about they are just following the rules. Bull*hit!

 


locked Re: Barred from St Maarten

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 


Courtney you made. Bless you and your family. I called to you on vhf outside of St.Pierre. I'm so happy that you made it safely. What a journey! We were heading to Trinidad before they closed the border. We diverted to St.Anne Martinique. Here we stay for how long who knows? For all those stranded sailors keep safe and well. A well stocked Amel is a good place to be. This too will pass. 

Chuck and Kim 
Joy #388


On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 7:42 PM Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
We we’re headed to Saint Martin when all of this started we left Martinique on Sunday the 15th and then sale up to Dominica the situation there was that we were going to have to self quarantine to go on the island so the next day we sailed to Isle de Saints.  We grabbed a mooring ball and before we had finished tying off our mooring lines local officials came to the boat and told us we had to leave at that point we were supposed to drop our kids off in Antica the upcoming Saturday and then spend the next week heading to Saint Martin so glad we made the decision just to sell straight to Saint Thomas or the kids were able to fly home on Saturday ( new flights were less than the refunds for the Antigua tix)
Cindy and I decided it was best to bring Trippin back to the states.  So we spent the next 9 days sailing to Brunswick with one overnight in the Ragged Islands 
Quite an unexpected and unplanned 1800 mile journey.  I write this while taking the 1000 miles back to home which will take hours not days 
Cheers 🥂 to all of you stay safe 
Courtney 
Trippin 
54#101
Brunswick GA


On Apr 1, 2020, at 6:57 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:



 

 

Hi,

I was planning on flying down to Kimberlite which is in St Maarten last Tuesday. Unfortunately the island was closed as of last Monday.
Since Pantaenius is not renewing any policies, I need an out of water survey. It looks like I won’t be able to get to St Marten till June, my policy expires June 10. I spoke to my friends on the island and even my friend ,chief inspector of police, said there was nothing he could do for me.

 

Please read what happened to my friend Hank Schmitt he Owns OPO which finds crew for boat owners at no cost to the owners. Please read the link when he attempted to land on St Maarten—also read his additional

Comments at the end –

The “Friendly Island”  B.S.

Please pass it on.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

Dear OPO Members and Fellow Sailors,

These are trying times, especially when you are denied entry into you winter home port of refuge. For pictures and full story can be found at:

WaveTrain: https://wavetrain.net/2020/03/29/evicted-from-sxm-virus-tales-from-the-caribbean/

This is Charlie Doane’s Blog and safe to open. It will also be included in the April 1st “OPO Notice to Mariners” along with other news which you will get if you are an OPO member.

Enjoy

And stay safe!

Hank Schmitt

OPO

What I left out in my article is that I watched the Mega Yacht “Seven Sins” make the bridge the day after I arrived and was at anchor refused entry.  So they can break the rules for some boats, but not others. Please pass this on to your friend. They can make exceptions for those who have money, but not for friends like me. The boat had several guests and more crew aboard and came from St. Bart’s, one of the infected islands.  I made sure I did not stop in a French island, but that did not matter after all, did it?. I tell the people from SXM who have responded with the same reply, “Don’t make excuses for your badly trained and surly customs agents.”  The locals never have to deal with them and we know better. So don’t buy that cr*p about they are just following the rules. Bull*hit!

 


locked Re: Barred from St Maarten

Courtney Gorman
 

We we’re headed to Saint Martin when all of this started we left Martinique on Sunday the 15th and then sale up to Dominica the situation there was that we were going to have to self quarantine to go on the island so the next day we sailed to Isle de Saints.  We grabbed a mooring ball and before we had finished tying off our mooring lines local officials came to the boat and told us we had to leave at that point we were supposed to drop our kids off in Antica the upcoming Saturday and then spend the next week heading to Saint Martin so glad we made the decision just to sell straight to Saint Thomas or the kids were able to fly home on Saturday ( new flights were less than the refunds for the Antigua tix)
Cindy and I decided it was best to bring Trippin back to the states.  So we spent the next 9 days sailing to Brunswick with one overnight in the Ragged Islands 
Quite an unexpected and unplanned 1800 mile journey.  I write this while taking the 1000 miles back to home which will take hours not days 
Cheers 🥂 to all of you stay safe 
Courtney 
Trippin 
54#101
Brunswick GA


On Apr 1, 2020, at 6:57 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:



 

 

Hi,

I was planning on flying down to Kimberlite which is in St Maarten last Tuesday. Unfortunately the island was closed as of last Monday.
Since Pantaenius is not renewing any policies, I need an out of water survey. It looks like I won’t be able to get to St Marten till June, my policy expires June 10. I spoke to my friends on the island and even my friend ,chief inspector of police, said there was nothing he could do for me.

 

Please read what happened to my friend Hank Schmitt he Owns OPO which finds crew for boat owners at no cost to the owners. Please read the link when he attempted to land on St Maarten—also read his additional

Comments at the end –

The “Friendly Island”  B.S.

Please pass it on.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

Dear OPO Members and Fellow Sailors,

These are trying times, especially when you are denied entry into you winter home port of refuge. For pictures and full story can be found at:

WaveTrain: https://wavetrain.net/2020/03/29/evicted-from-sxm-virus-tales-from-the-caribbean/

This is Charlie Doane’s Blog and safe to open. It will also be included in the April 1st “OPO Notice to Mariners” along with other news which you will get if you are an OPO member.

Enjoy

And stay safe!

Hank Schmitt

OPO

What I left out in my article is that I watched the Mega Yacht “Seven Sins” make the bridge the day after I arrived and was at anchor refused entry.  So they can break the rules for some boats, but not others. Please pass this on to your friend. They can make exceptions for those who have money, but not for friends like me. The boat had several guests and more crew aboard and came from St. Bart’s, one of the infected islands.  I made sure I did not stop in a French island, but that did not matter after all, did it?. I tell the people from SXM who have responded with the same reply, “Don’t make excuses for your badly trained and surly customs agents.”  The locals never have to deal with them and we know better. So don’t buy that cr*p about they are just following the rules. Bull*hit!

 


locked Barred from St Maarten

eric freedman
 

 

 

Hi,

I was planning on flying down to Kimberlite which is in St Maarten last Tuesday. Unfortunately the island was closed as of last Monday.
Since Pantaenius is not renewing any policies, I need an out of water survey. It looks like I won’t be able to get to St Marten till June, my policy expires June 10. I spoke to my friends on the island and even my friend ,chief inspector of police, said there was nothing he could do for me.

 

Please read what happened to my friend Hank Schmitt he Owns OPO which finds crew for boat owners at no cost to the owners. Please read the link when he attempted to land on St Maarten—also read his additional

Comments at the end –

The “Friendly Island”  B.S.

Please pass it on.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

Dear OPO Members and Fellow Sailors,

These are trying times, especially when you are denied entry into you winter home port of refuge. For pictures and full story can be found at:

WaveTrain: https://wavetrain.net/2020/03/29/evicted-from-sxm-virus-tales-from-the-caribbean/

This is Charlie Doane’s Blog and safe to open. It will also be included in the April 1st “OPO Notice to Mariners” along with other news which you will get if you are an OPO member.

Enjoy

And stay safe!

Hank Schmitt

OPO

What I left out in my article is that I watched the Mega Yacht “Seven Sins” make the bridge the day after I arrived and was at anchor refused entry.  So they can break the rules for some boats, but not others. Please pass this on to your friend. They can make exceptions for those who have money, but not for friends like me. The boat had several guests and more crew aboard and came from St. Bart’s, one of the infected islands.  I made sure I did not stop in a French island, but that did not matter after all, did it?. I tell the people from SXM who have responded with the same reply, “Don’t make excuses for your badly trained and surly customs agents.”  The locals never have to deal with them and we know better. So don’t buy that cr*p about they are just following the rules. Bull*hit!

 


test

eric freedman
 

 


Re: WOB Corrosion

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Kent. I would stay with the bronze WOB. It saved you this time. Without it that corosion would have happened somewhere else.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 31 March 2020 at 10:34 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Gary and Danny,
I am certain that you are right about the WOB acting as the sacrificial anode.
If this had gone on any longer, might have had catastrophic failure of the WOB.  What damage would have occurred if that had happened?  I think that the shaft zinc might be a good solution. Serving the same purpose as the prop zinc.  With added protection I think the stainless WOB would be OK. Thoughts?
Kent
Kristy
SM 243

On Mar 30, 2020 1:33 PM, "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:55 AM, karkauai wrote:
bottom line for me is that while hull potential is a good measure of overall bonding efficacy, we must REGULARLY measure continuity at ALL metals exposed to sea water to confirm that they are protected.  It goes on my quarterly maintenance list today.

Hi Kent:  What a great find and a great discussion along with Joel's post.  Sooooo valuable.  Thanks for sharing.  Glad you got that WOB (wearing out bearing) out.  It is still a bit of a mystery to me as to why only that corroded.  The color (salmon like) looks like de-zincification.  I am only speculating but, since brass is copper and zinc, the zinc in the brass was the least noble element in that vicinity (i.e.the prop, c-drive shaft etc.) Everything must have all been more noble metals, so with no continuity of the C-drive to the normal sacrificial anodes (on the rudder), the WOB became the sacrificial anode for your C-drive.  I guess it only corroded where it was in contact with sea water and hence the lack of corrosion "inside" the lip seals etc. 

Again, thanks for you invaluable reminder about preventative diagnostics on our bonding system. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona    (Puerto Del Rey Marina, in-accesible due to Puerto Rico's COVID-19 quarantine)
SM 2000 # 335



Re: WOB Corrosion

karkauai
 

Gary and Danny,
I am certain that you are right about the WOB acting as the sacrificial anode.
If this had gone on any longer, might have had catastrophic failure of the WOB.  What damage would have occurred if that had happened?  I think that the shaft zinc might be a good solution. Serving the same purpose as the prop zinc.  With added protection I think the stainless WOB would be OK. Thoughts?
Kent
Kristy
SM 243

On Mar 30, 2020 1:33 PM, "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:55 AM, karkauai wrote:
bottom line for me is that while hull potential is a good measure of overall bonding efficacy, we must REGULARLY measure continuity at ALL metals exposed to sea water to confirm that they are protected.  It goes on my quarterly maintenance list today.

Hi Kent:  What a great find and a great discussion along with Joel's post.  Sooooo valuable.  Thanks for sharing.  Glad you got that WOB (wearing out bearing) out.  It is still a bit of a mystery to me as to why only that corroded.  The color (salmon like) looks like de-zincification.  I am only speculating but, since brass is copper and zinc, the zinc in the brass was the least noble element in that vicinity (i.e.the prop, c-drive shaft etc.) Everything must have all been more noble metals, so with no continuity of the C-drive to the normal sacrificial anodes (on the rudder), the WOB became the sacrificial anode for your C-drive.  I guess it only corroded where it was in contact with sea water and hence the lack of corrosion "inside" the lip seals etc. 

Again, thanks for you invaluable reminder about preventative diagnostics on our bonding system. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona    (Puerto Del Rey Marina, in-accesible due to Puerto Rico's COVID-19 quarantine)
SM 2000 # 335



Re: prop zincs ,WOB Corrosion, more than you ever wanted to know about...and a message to Kent from Olivier

karkauai
 

Thank you Joel.  As usual, your perspective is extremely valuable to us all.  I appreciate the Amel design and rarely deviate from it.  Since mine is a MaxProp, I can still put a zinc in it and still claim it is the Amel way.
It occurs to me that if I hadn't been using the prop zinc, things might have been worse, since that was the only thing protecting the CDrive.  I have been very good about checking the bonding system once a year since I had the electrolytic damage to the prop shaft, and checking hull potential every month and anytime I time up to a dock.  That's apparently not often enough, hence my moving it to the quarterly maintenance list

When I check hull potential, I do turn everything off and back on one at a time.  So far no surprises!

Thanks again, and Iris says Hi!
Kent
Kristy
SM243

On Mar 29, 2020 5:13 PM, amelforme <jfpottercys@...> wrote:

Hello everyone and here is yet another installment of more than you ever wanted to know about…

During my first visit to Chantiers Amel in the early 1980’s  I spent several hours each day under the tutelage of Jacques Carteau, the Technical Manager at Amel. His job was to take Captain Amel’s thoughts and ideas and turn them into the diagrams, lofts and procedural instructions to make these ideas into a boat. At that time, Mr. Carteau knew more about everything Amel than anyone else at the shipyard. Mr. Carteau could tell I was enthusiastic to learn about all the technical and construction details and, over the years, gave me an incredible education about just about everything that happened, start to finish, when building an Amel boat. Amel insiated that anyone who made representations about their boats to really know what they were talking about and they spent lots of time over the years making sure I was fully familiar with the entire boat and all systems aboard.

 

There were in depth instructions about all the systems. He explained that Amel boats, every one/every model, had a full earth return/full floating DC electrical system. Simply, this means every bit of electrical energy comes out of the batteries , supplies power to the device to which it is connected and then returns left over energy back to the batteries. If this system is not corrupted, it just about precludes electrolytic corrosion.

When I asked why none of the Sharki, Maramu or Mango boats had zincs on the prop shafts or propellers, even the ones on the way to be launched, he took me to his office and showed me the diagrams for the galvanic anode/zinc system we all have on our Amel boats. This joins every piece of metal near or below the waterline and carries any stray current back to the two zincs on the rudder. He explained in great detail ( I should have taken notes as details dim after nearly 40 years ) how this system was perfectly galvanically balanced and no additional zincs were needed anywhere. He also explained that to introduce more zincs can have a negative effect on the whole system and actually cause metal wasting when the system goes out of balance. It was all kinda like alchemy to me but, hey, this was Mr. Carteau, Amel’s right hand man.

 

Why all this explanation? Because it is imperative to the good health of our boats that these carefully conceived systems be kept as designed and well maintained. Keeping connections clean and securely fastened is imperative. Don’t let someone totally unfamiliar with the totality of these systems ever give you guidance about changing them to something they are more familiar with. Over the years I can’t tell you how many times that shipyard/repair managers have called me  to tell me how stupid the Amel drive system is, how the bow thruster was conceived by a moron and built by a monkey, or that all those wires carrying DC electricity back to batteries was just plain old stupid and entirely unneeded…I could bore you with more but you get the picture.

 

I call it “The not invented here syndrome”. If some well experienced marine tech sees something unfamiliar, well, it can’t be any good and probably doesn’t work well for very long and blah blah blah.  Don’t let people like this on your boat.

 

Oh, in closing, no Amel built boat with an Autoprop ever left the factory with a zinc on the prop. Not one. Only got the red plastic cap. Honestly, you really don’t need a zinc. Some folks follow the if enough is plenty, more is better rule and put a zinc on. Probably won’t hurt anything but it does not help anything either. Just to be safe incase my recollections are suffering from geezage, I checked in with Olivier. He said the ONLY boats that had zincs on the props were boats with a Maxprop and only because they didn’t make a plastic cap as a replacement and the stuff inside the prop lasts longer if foreign bodies are kept out.

 

Kent, Olivier suggested the next time you do your testing, do it while turning on just one electrical device at a time and see if there is any major difference and if so, investigate that fully. Kent, your boats first owners were nice folks but not mechanically sympathetic. You are to be highly commended for your rescue of and continued efforts to improve KRISTY.

 

Have fun with your Amel boats everybody!

Joel        

 

       JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C.

                                           THE  EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

  UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                   Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 2:30 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] WOB Corrosion

 

Oops forgot to attach pic:

 

 

On Mar 29, 2020 1:53 PM, "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Thanks, Mark.  Interesting to know.  I have a MaxProp Classic.  They sell stainless steel hex bolts for the zinc.

Anyone have suggestions for something I can put between the zinc and aft side of the prop to improve contact?

 

I was able to remove the bad WOB by drilling two holes and using screws to pull it out.  It came out with just a little coaxing.

 

See pic.  The galvanic damage extended about half way through the WOB.

 

I tested continuity between the prop shaft and bonding system and found NO LOAD!!!

Further investigation showed bad connections between the CDrive and engine bed.  After cleaning those up, still NO LOAD. Cable was bad, too, inside the connectors.

I've now confirmed no resistance between the prop shaft and the rudder zincs.

 

If this had been worse, I could have had catastrophic failure of the WOB, and who knows what kind of other damage...I got lucky this time.

 

Soooo, bottom line for me is that while hull potential is a good measure of overall bonding efficacy, we must REGULARLY measure continuity at ALL metals exposed to sea water to confirm that they are protected.  It goes on my quarterly maintenance list today.

 

Kent

SV Kristy

SM 243

 

On Mar 29, 2020 1:17 PM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Hi Kent, 

 

I do like the Dremel idea; it will allow you to section the WOB and remove it like a dentist removes a wisdom tooth. 

 

I wanted to let you know that every time I have ordered prop shaft zincs they have come with the plastic screws.  The zinc has exhibited “normal” wear but has never fallen off.  The Autoprop website has a video showing the rebuild of an H5 and references removing the plastic screws when disassembling the prop.  I believe metal screws provide a preferential contact area on the mounting tabs enhancing the destruction of the tabs whereas the plastic screws spread out the contact area to the body of the zinc – just a SWAG.

 

Good luck with your project.


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54

 

 



Re: WOB Corrosion

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi again Gary and Kent, further to my last. I do depart from Amel advice regarding zincs. Because the c drive, the shaft and the propeller are so critical I always have a shaft zinc between the prop and the c drive. Yes the Amel bonding system makes this unnecessary, but only if all the connections are always perfect and in my long experience it is very difficult on a boat to be certain that all connections are always perfect. This is my backup defence. I know it can be argued that this means I am "over zincing" but I prefer that risk to the other. I have the plastic cone on the prop.

Kind regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl 

On 31 March 2020 at 06:33 "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:55 AM, karkauai wrote:
bottom line for me is that while hull potential is a good measure of overall bonding efficacy, we must REGULARLY measure continuity at ALL metals exposed to sea water to confirm that they are protected.  It goes on my quarterly maintenance list today.

Hi Kent:  What a great find and a great discussion along with Joel's post.  Sooooo valuable.  Thanks for sharing.  Glad you got that WOB (wearing out bearing) out.  It is still a bit of a mystery to me as to why only that corroded.  The color (salmon like) looks like de-zincification.  I am only speculating but, since brass is copper and zinc, the zinc in the brass was the least noble element in that vicinity (i.e.the prop, c-drive shaft etc.) Everything must have all been more noble metals, so with no continuity of the C-drive to the normal sacrificial anodes (on the rudder), the WOB became the sacrificial anode for your C-drive.  I guess it only corroded where it was in contact with sea water and hence the lack of corrosion "inside" the lip seals etc. 

Again, thanks for you invaluable reminder about preventative diagnostics on our bonding system. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona    (Puerto Del Rey Marina, in-accesible due to Puerto Rico's COVID-19 quarantine)
SM 2000 # 335


Re: WOB Corrosion

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Gary, I think you have put your finger on it. That erosion of the exterior of the WOB is something I have never seen and your reasoning that the least noble metal eroded sounds right. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. However bronze alloys come in a variety of compositions, I believe some with zinc and some not.(but I am no expert on alloys) I always thought the WOB was a bronze, if so it would seem likely that Kents did indeed contain zinc. Whatever I am sure you have picked the cause. Once again we see good reason to stay with the Amel original. If the bronze WOB had been replaced with a stainless what may have happened?

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 31 March 2020 at 06:33 "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:55 AM, karkauai wrote:
bottom line for me is that while hull potential is a good measure of overall bonding efficacy, we must REGULARLY measure continuity at ALL metals exposed to sea water to confirm that they are protected.  It goes on my quarterly maintenance list today.

Hi Kent:  What a great find and a great discussion along with Joel's post.  Sooooo valuable.  Thanks for sharing.  Glad you got that WOB (wearing out bearing) out.  It is still a bit of a mystery to me as to why only that corroded.  The color (salmon like) looks like de-zincification.  I am only speculating but, since brass is copper and zinc, the zinc in the brass was the least noble element in that vicinity (i.e.the prop, c-drive shaft etc.) Everything must have all been more noble metals, so with no continuity of the C-drive to the normal sacrificial anodes (on the rudder), the WOB became the sacrificial anode for your C-drive.  I guess it only corroded where it was in contact with sea water and hence the lack of corrosion "inside" the lip seals etc. 

Again, thanks for you invaluable reminder about preventative diagnostics on our bonding system. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona    (Puerto Del Rey Marina, in-accesible due to Puerto Rico's COVID-19 quarantine)
SM 2000 # 335


Re: WOB Corrosion

Gary Silver
 

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:55 AM, karkauai wrote:
bottom line for me is that while hull potential is a good measure of overall bonding efficacy, we must REGULARLY measure continuity at ALL metals exposed to sea water to confirm that they are protected.  It goes on my quarterly maintenance list today.

Hi Kent:  What a great find and a great discussion along with Joel's post.  Sooooo valuable.  Thanks for sharing.  Glad you got that WOB (wearing out bearing) out.  It is still a bit of a mystery to me as to why only that corroded.  The color (salmon like) looks like de-zincification.  I am only speculating but, since brass is copper and zinc, the zinc in the brass was the least noble element in that vicinity (i.e.the prop, c-drive shaft etc.) Everything must have all been more noble metals, so with no continuity of the C-drive to the normal sacrificial anodes (on the rudder), the WOB became the sacrificial anode for your C-drive.  I guess it only corroded where it was in contact with sea water and hence the lack of corrosion "inside" the lip seals etc. 

Again, thanks for you invaluable reminder about preventative diagnostics on our bonding system. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona    (Puerto Del Rey Marina, in-accesible due to Puerto Rico's COVID-19 quarantine)
SM 2000 # 335


Re: Where to put the life raft

eric freedman
 

Hi Gary,

That is a nice place to store a life raft. However if you have even had your total boat under water, As I have, you will probably lose the raft. That’s why I keep mine in the port locker.

 

I recall many waves submerging the boat to a point where I had to hold my breath in the cockpit till the water subsided. The first thing I then saw were just the 2 masts sticking out of the water and no boat visible, that was really a cool sight..

FYI, it takes about 20-30 seconds for the cockpit to drain.

 

No water down below,  nothing was flying around and no cabinets opened. That lasted for 36 hours.

Thank You Captain Henry !!!

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gary Wells
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 9:41 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Where to put the life raft

 

So, this might sound a bit unconventional but I keep my hard cased Winslow below decks in the wet locker next to the nav station ... except when actually sailing.
The hard case is a bit cumbersome weighing in at 69 lbs but even though it's hard plastic, the sticker says "do no store outside". 
It's six years old and still in great shape except for some UV damage to the nylon tether cover.

When we are sailing, and this came about because of the ARC's "15 seconds to the rail" rule, I set it on the port side of the aft deck.  It fits perfectly between the cabin top cleat and the grab rail.  I do use a soft rubber "grate" (maybe it's a former dish-drying rack) underneath to prevent scratching the deck and also let water flow beneath it.
It's held in place with a ratchet tie down from the cleat, over the top and back down to the rail and then "x" it back.  The aft mizzen shroud is involved to stabilize it. and the tether is connected to the cleat.


The setup works fine and to get the raft in the water is a single cut through the strap then toss it in over the railing (I guess if you had time  you could just undo the ratchet straps :))

I've never taken a dedicated picture of the setup, but I sure will when we get going next month. 

 

Important for me is that it is ~readily~ available; no hoisting, opening lockers or struggle.  Secondarily, it is temporary .. only when we are actively cruising... I even have a canvas cover for it when we are at anchor so the sun won't bake it any more than necessary. 

Just an option.

Oh, and +1 on the Winslow.  I was present when they serviced mine and got to watch it inflate and then I poked around into all the pockets and did a 'test grab' of some of the boarding lines.  I'm glad I chose it.  The 6 person looks just right, and roomy .. for the two of us :)

Cheers :)

Gary W. 
SM 209, Adagio
Georgia, USA


Re: WOB Corrosion

eric freedman
 

Kent,

In that case I would drill and tap it in 3 or 4 places.

You will need a small wrench to turn the tap.

Use brass screws in case they  break—or possibly drill it and insert a few  eazy outs to pull the bearing out . It seems like you will have to drill deeply to get the bearing . Worse case it is rotten all the way through and then you will have to grind it out.

 

Was there any brass in the drain oil?

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 9:18 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] WOB Corrosion

 



Thanks for your replies.

Eric, I am able to turn it on the shaft with rotational  pressure using a screw driver, but I can’t get any purchase on the WOB, as it crumbles when any aftward pressure is applied. I may have to grind it out but will need to get a flexible shaft for my Dremel.  

 

Danny, I didn’t replace the prop zincs about a month ago when it disappeared, as I knew I was going to haul out and was going on the assumption that I really didn’t need it anyway.

 

Paul, as Eric said, if you varnish or paint with enamel (fingernail polish works, too) around the holes, they last twice as long.  You said you had plastic bolts holding your prop zinc on.  It should have three hex head stainless steel bolts which would help make contact with the prop.

 

Gary, the set screws are gone, their holes were so brittle that with  just a little pressure they crumbled.

 

I will check continuity between the prop shaft and zincs.  If I find no continuity, that would explain the problem.  If there is good continuity, does anyone have an explanation why the rudder zincs are wearing normally but I have this problem with the WOB?

 

Kent Robertson

S/V Kristy

SM 243



On Mar 28, 2020, at 4:30 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:



Hi Kent,

Wow,

That looks like a delicate job. Good luck with the work.

 

Looking at the picture again, had to tried to put a screwdriver or small chisel in the place where the set screw was and try to rotate the bearing, If you can get it to rotate. Possibly you can get some purchase on the lip of the bearing and pry it out. If I see the photo correctly, a pair of channel lock pliers might allow rotation and removal.

 

If that doesn’t work and  you have a flex shaft attachment for a dremel tool that would make the work a lot easier. As a jeweler that is the way I would VERY carefully grind out the remains of the bearing.

Another possibility is to drill and tap it in a few places and try  to pull it out with the screws installed in the tapped holes. Use brass screws I case they break off.

 

 

If you cover the bolts on the prop shaft zincs with varnish or nail polish, the area around the screws last a lot longer.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 3:32 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] WOB Corrosion

 

Hi All,

I’m hauled out for bottom paint and servicing the Amel-supplied WOB and bow thruster seals.  It has been 4.3 years as I have had Island 44 on the bottom, and it lasts that long.  No water ingress and no oil loss.”, so I haven’t done the service until now.  Please see the pic of the WOB.  It is crumbling apart as if it were damaged by corrosion/electrolysis.  The hull potential has been perfect at -980mv every time I’ve checked it, and the rudder zincs have lasted almost a year with normal erosion.  I have used prop zincs on it since I had the prop shaft electrolysis a few years ago.  They have disappeared after a few months, mostly because they erode at the bolt hole edges and fall off, rather than completely erode away.

It’s going to be a bitch to get out, but bigger question is why did it corrode?  Any thoughts?  

Thanks in advance,
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

<image001.jpg>


Re: prop zincs ,WOB Corrosion, more than you ever wanted to know about...and a message to Kent from Olivier

amelforme
 

Hello everyone and here is yet another installment of more than you ever wanted to know about…

During my first visit to Chantiers Amel in the early 1980’s  I spent several hours each day under the tutelage of Jacques Carteau, the Technical Manager at Amel. His job was to take Captain Amel’s thoughts and ideas and turn them into the diagrams, lofts and procedural instructions to make these ideas into a boat. At that time, Mr. Carteau knew more about everything Amel than anyone else at the shipyard. Mr. Carteau could tell I was enthusiastic to learn about all the technical and construction details and, over the years, gave me an incredible education about just about everything that happened, start to finish, when building an Amel boat. Amel insiated that anyone who made representations about their boats to really know what they were talking about and they spent lots of time over the years making sure I was fully familiar with the entire boat and all systems aboard.

 

There were in depth instructions about all the systems. He explained that Amel boats, every one/every model, had a full earth return/full floating DC electrical system. Simply, this means every bit of electrical energy comes out of the batteries , supplies power to the device to which it is connected and then returns left over energy back to the batteries. If this system is not corrupted, it just about precludes electrolytic corrosion.

When I asked why none of the Sharki, Maramu or Mango boats had zincs on the prop shafts or propellers, even the ones on the way to be launched, he took me to his office and showed me the diagrams for the galvanic anode/zinc system we all have on our Amel boats. This joins every piece of metal near or below the waterline and carries any stray current back to the two zincs on the rudder. He explained in great detail ( I should have taken notes as details dim after nearly 40 years ) how this system was perfectly galvanically balanced and no additional zincs were needed anywhere. He also explained that to introduce more zincs can have a negative effect on the whole system and actually cause metal wasting when the system goes out of balance. It was all kinda like alchemy to me but, hey, this was Mr. Carteau, Amel’s right hand man.

 

Why all this explanation? Because it is imperative to the good health of our boats that these carefully conceived systems be kept as designed and well maintained. Keeping connections clean and securely fastened is imperative. Don’t let someone totally unfamiliar with the totality of these systems ever give you guidance about changing them to something they are more familiar with. Over the years I can’t tell you how many times that shipyard/repair managers have called me  to tell me how stupid the Amel drive system is, how the bow thruster was conceived by a moron and built by a monkey, or that all those wires carrying DC electricity back to batteries was just plain old stupid and entirely unneeded…I could bore you with more but you get the picture.

 

I call it “The not invented here syndrome”. If some well experienced marine tech sees something unfamiliar, well, it can’t be any good and probably doesn’t work well for very long and blah blah blah.  Don’t let people like this on your boat.

 

Oh, in closing, no Amel built boat with an Autoprop ever left the factory with a zinc on the prop. Not one. Only got the red plastic cap. Honestly, you really don’t need a zinc. Some folks follow the if enough is plenty, more is better rule and put a zinc on. Probably won’t hurt anything but it does not help anything either. Just to be safe incase my recollections are suffering from geezage, I checked in with Olivier. He said the ONLY boats that had zincs on the props were boats with a Maxprop and only because they didn’t make a plastic cap as a replacement and the stuff inside the prop lasts longer if foreign bodies are kept out.

 

Kent, Olivier suggested the next time you do your testing, do it while turning on just one electrical device at a time and see if there is any major difference and if so, investigate that fully. Kent, your boats first owners were nice folks but not mechanically sympathetic. You are to be highly commended for your rescue of and continued efforts to improve KRISTY.

 

Have fun with your Amel boats everybody!

Joel        

 

       JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C.

                                           THE  EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

  UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                   Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 2:30 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] WOB Corrosion

 

Oops forgot to attach pic:

 

 

On Mar 29, 2020 1:53 PM, "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Thanks, Mark.  Interesting to know.  I have a MaxProp Classic.  They sell stainless steel hex bolts for the zinc.

Anyone have suggestions for something I can put between the zinc and aft side of the prop to improve contact?

 

I was able to remove the bad WOB by drilling two holes and using screws to pull it out.  It came out with just a little coaxing.

 

See pic.  The galvanic damage extended about half way through the WOB.

 

I tested continuity between the prop shaft and bonding system and found NO LOAD!!!

Further investigation showed bad connections between the CDrive and engine bed.  After cleaning those up, still NO LOAD. Cable was bad, too, inside the connectors.

I've now confirmed no resistance between the prop shaft and the rudder zincs.

 

If this had been worse, I could have had catastrophic failure of the WOB, and who knows what kind of other damage...I got lucky this time.

 

Soooo, bottom line for me is that while hull potential is a good measure of overall bonding efficacy, we must REGULARLY measure continuity at ALL metals exposed to sea water to confirm that they are protected.  It goes on my quarterly maintenance list today.

 

Kent

SV Kristy

SM 243

 

On Mar 29, 2020 1:17 PM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Hi Kent, 

 

I do like the Dremel idea; it will allow you to section the WOB and remove it like a dentist removes a wisdom tooth. 

 

I wanted to let you know that every time I have ordered prop shaft zincs they have come with the plastic screws.  The zinc has exhibited “normal” wear but has never fallen off.  The Autoprop website has a video showing the rebuild of an H5 and references removing the plastic screws when disassembling the prop.  I believe metal screws provide a preferential contact area on the mounting tabs enhancing the destruction of the tabs whereas the plastic screws spread out the contact area to the body of the zinc – just a SWAG.

 

Good luck with your project.


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54

 

 


Re: Cleaning the worst parts of an Amel

Arlo
 

Well I wanted to test the bonding for my keel bolt this weekend, so I finally did the dreded annual bilge cleaning. Since we previously had a grease based stuffing box, needless to say it was a messy job. So glad we upgraded to a dripless system. (We have a Mango). I did find a host of stuff in the bilge when I used the shop vac, including a flashlight from the previous owner, several caps from oil and antifreeze containers, and assorted screws, zip ties, and a few hand tools....oh and about 1 inche of thick greasy muck. But the bilge is now clean and I am happy to say that the bonding to the keel bolt tested perfect. I also installed a galvanic isolator since I am at the dock.  By the way cleaning the bilge really does rank up there as the top job I dislike.....but glad its done. :)


Re: WOB Corrosion

karkauai
 

Oops forgot to attach pic:


On Mar 29, 2020 1:53 PM, "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:
Thanks, Mark.  Interesting to know.  I have a MaxProp Classic.  They sell stainless steel hex bolts for the zinc.
Anyone have suggestions for something I can put between the zinc and aft side of the prop to improve contact?

I was able to remove the bad WOB by drilling two holes and using screws to pull it out.  It came out with just a little coaxing.

See pic.  The galvanic damage extended about half way through the WOB.

I tested continuity between the prop shaft and bonding system and found NO LOAD!!!
Further investigation showed bad connections between the CDrive and engine bed.  After cleaning those up, still NO LOAD. Cable was bad, too, inside the connectors.
I've now confirmed no resistance between the prop shaft and the rudder zincs.

If this had been worse, I could have had catastrophic failure of the WOB, and who knows what kind of other damage...I got lucky this time.

Soooo, bottom line for me is that while hull potential is a good measure of overall bonding efficacy, we must REGULARLY measure continuity at ALL metals exposed to sea water to confirm that they are protected.  It goes on my quarterly maintenance list today.

Kent
SV Kristy
SM 243

On Mar 29, 2020 1:17 PM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Hi Kent, 

 

I do like the Dremel idea; it will allow you to section the WOB and remove it like a dentist removes a wisdom tooth. 

 

I wanted to let you know that every time I have ordered prop shaft zincs they have come with the plastic screws.  The zinc has exhibited “normal” wear but has never fallen off.  The Autoprop website has a video showing the rebuild of an H5 and references removing the plastic screws when disassembling the prop.  I believe metal screws provide a preferential contact area on the mounting tabs enhancing the destruction of the tabs whereas the plastic screws spread out the contact area to the body of the zinc – just a SWAG.

 

Good luck with your project.


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54



Re: WOB Corrosion

karkauai
 

Thanks, Mark.  Interesting to know.  I have a MaxProp Classic.  They sell stainless steel hex bolts for the zinc.
Anyone have suggestions for something I can put between the zinc and aft side of the prop to improve contact?

I was able to remove the bad WOB by drilling two holes and using screws to pull it out.  It came out with just a little coaxing.

See pic.  The galvanic damage extended about half way through the WOB.

I tested continuity between the prop shaft and bonding system and found NO LOAD!!!
Further investigation showed bad connections between the CDrive and engine bed.  After cleaning those up, still NO LOAD. Cable was bad, too, inside the connectors.
I've now confirmed no resistance between the prop shaft and the rudder zincs.

If this had been worse, I could have had catastrophic failure of the WOB, and who knows what kind of other damage...I got lucky this time.

Soooo, bottom line for me is that while hull potential is a good measure of overall bonding efficacy, we must REGULARLY measure continuity at ALL metals exposed to sea water to confirm that they are protected.  It goes on my quarterly maintenance list today.

Kent
SV Kristy
SM 243

On Mar 29, 2020 1:17 PM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Hi Kent, 

 

I do like the Dremel idea; it will allow you to section the WOB and remove it like a dentist removes a wisdom tooth. 

 

I wanted to let you know that every time I have ordered prop shaft zincs they have come with the plastic screws.  The zinc has exhibited “normal” wear but has never fallen off.  The Autoprop website has a video showing the rebuild of an H5 and references removing the plastic screws when disassembling the prop.  I believe metal screws provide a preferential contact area on the mounting tabs enhancing the destruction of the tabs whereas the plastic screws spread out the contact area to the body of the zinc – just a SWAG.

 

Good luck with your project.


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54