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Re: Excessive usage of water maker membranes
Ken,
We do not have a pre-pump. I was unaware of the air issue. For the most part I do not see air in the system (via the float gauge). Once and a while there is air during the start up if the sea-chest filter is not all the way full. But, this is not the norm.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia www.creampuff.us
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Ken Powers SV Aquarius
Hello Mark, |
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Re: Excessive usage of water maker membranes
Thomas Peacock
My only thought is like others, make certain that there is no chlorine. Obviously, there shouldn’t be if all you do is make RO water. Do you ever put water in the tank from the marina? We often have both RO and shore water, tough to tell how much chlorine, although you can buy test strips. I will sometimes flush with a couple of gallons of RO water drawn from the control panel tap, rather than flush with water from the tank.
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Assuming the above is useless advice, you might try looking at https://www.genesysro.com/uploads/docs/STUDY%20OF%20THE-PHYSICAL-AND-CHEMICAL-DAMAGE-ON-REVERSE-OSMOSIS-MEMBRANES-DETECTED-BY-AUTOPSIES-NURIA.pdf This details some of what can go wrong, including post-mortem pictures. Interestingly, there are several causes for physical damage to the membranes (as opposed to chemical) that might have some bearing on your issue. Tom Peacock SM 240 Aletes, San Juan PR Waiting to fly back down to PR next month
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Re: Excessive usage of water maker membranes
Mark & Debbie Mueller
As it has been said earlier in this post hydrocarbons (oil, fuel, etc.), chlorine, and over pressure are by far the biggest killers of RO membranes. Operationally, never exceeding the rated capacity of the water maker based on the flowmeter and never exceeding the maximum pressure as shown on the gauge is the rule. If in a brackish water situation maximum flow will be achieved at far lower pressures than what would normally be seen in the “green” pressure zone i.e. it takes less pressure to make RO water when there is less salt in the feed water. The way you described the operation of your water maker seems to meet all the manufacturer’s recommendations; you might look to an over pressure condition. According to Dow a major manufacturer of the membranes the nominal operating pressure is 800 psig (55 bar). If you could get a pressure gauge that shows actual pressure & connect it to your system you could verify that your Dessalator gauge is reading accurately and not showing a lower than normal pressure reading causing you to apply a higher than recommended pressure causing damage to the membranes. -- Mark Mueller Brass Ring A54 |
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Re: Excessive usage of water maker membranes
Mohammad Shirloo
Hi Paul;
Was there a specific issue that you were dealing with that led Martin to give you that advice?
Happy Sailing;
Mohammad and Aty B&B Kokomo AMEL 54 #099
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 2:44 AM To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Excessive usage of water maker membranes
Mohammad,
I was told by Martin to run the water maker with the pressure at the beginning of the green zone. It also says this in the manual.
Cheers, Paul S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Mohammad Shirloo
Hi;
When we first purchased Kokomo, I had detailed discussions with Martin, the head tech at Dessalator, about the environments that the water maker could be used and best practices. The following was my takeaway:
We have done the above for 5 seasons of about 5 months each. The pre-filters typically last a whole season. We never put any water in the tank other than from the water maker. The water quality is always below 250 PPM. When we purchased Kokomo, the water maker had only 60 hours on it. So, I’m fairly sure that our membranes are original from 2008 and therefore 12 years old. The water maker now has around 550 hours. I was told that after 500 hours, the quality will probably start to drop. Our usage has solely been in the Med.
Happy Sailing;
Mohammad and Aty B&B Kokomo AMEL 54 #099
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Mark Erdos via groups.io
Hi Colin,
Yes, I re-read that part and it is a little confusing how I wrote it. In marina, we do a fresh water flush aobut once a week. We do not run the water maker in that environment.
Thanks for the insight, I guess I need to be more fussy about where we run it. I thought the pre-filter would help a lot. I guess not.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io]
On Behalf Of islandpearl2_sm2k332
Hi Mark
We had the 100L/Hr Duo on Island Pearl II and went around the work in three years with a new 2016 set of membranes. Those membranes were still perfect at the end of our trip doing a full 100L/Hr easily on the a/c current but slightly down to 75L/hr on the DC current motor.
We were absolutely fussy about the cleanliness of ocean water before running it and were sometimes scoffed at by others eg in Rodrigues (Indian Ocean) for lifting anchor, risking losing our good spot to go out to sea every four-five days to make water whilst other cruiser friends simply made water inside the large seawater harbour where we felt the water was not up to scratch. Also, we never took the boat out onto the hard for a season, even though we had planned to do this in the Caribbean in 2019.
If you are careful like this, which I suspect you are, then there must be something else at play with your system and I look forward to hearing about that from other more experienced cruisers here.
Also, since we have communicated often and I admire your equally careful approach to looking after Creampuff, I highly suspect that when you refer to "running your watermaker at least once per week in marina's", that you actually meant "doing a freshwater flush cycle" in the marina from your tank as per the manual requirements.... rather than actually making water from the extremely dirty marina seawater which would totally explain everything about your problems, but which I am equally sure you would never have done.
Colin Streeter Brisbane ex Island Pearl II
On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:10 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:
-- Colin Streeter 0411 016 445
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Cleaning the prop
Covid- project - getting replacement prop to shine again...
Using grandmothers old recipe (toothpaste) and it takes its time... any better ideas around? Best Alexander SY Antinea SM #231 |
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Locked
Re: Off Topic, but vital info
The original posting has nothing to do with Amel Yachts. I am locking this message topic. As a reminder: We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond. Members will register with their given names rather than aliases. Members who currently own an Amel should always sign postings with their given name, boat name, Amel model, and hull number.
On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:14 AM martin haméline <marafiki37@...> wrote:
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Re: 𝗭𝗢𝗢𝗠 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿
Rink De Haan
Hi Bill
I am also interested.
Topic for me could be: changing the old B&G network to NME2000 and current systems.
Best regards
Rink
Amel SM2k #330 Razors Edge
Van: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> namens CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Verzonden: Saturday, April 18, 2020 4:13:41 PM Aan: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io> Onderwerp: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] 𝗭𝗢𝗢𝗠 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿
All,
I am going to wait a few more days to be able to get some more comments. I have been contacted by one group member who is an experienced ZOOM administrator and has a commercial account with ZOOM. This will benefit all of us.
Those interested please reply to this thread with their suggested topic(s), or any other suggestions. Once I have those suggestions, I will produce a "poll" of suggested date/times and topics.
When the above is completed, I plan to turn it over to the volunteer owner/administrator.
I am looking forward to this.
Bill
On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 8:26 AM Brian Riggs <7briggs@...> wrote:
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Re: 𝗭𝗢𝗢𝗠 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿
Very interested. The two topics? 1- how to fix, repair or replace info for everything. 2- where to source any relevant parts. I know were surrounded by knowledge and good people. So many have documentation on how to teach us. Now we need a central, and user friendly info site. Randall A54-#56 On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 4:14 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
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Locked
Re: Off Topic, but vital info
Sounds like a Political conspiracy
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Is this the purpose of Amel Owners forum? On Apr 19, 2020, at 11:01 AM, arthur saftlas <art@...> wrote:
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Locked
Off Topic, but vital info
arthur saftlas <art@...>
This video interview answers the question, What in this world is really going on?
A famous doctor answers this on a little known channel, because it is against the mainstream. Please watch and share once you realize this is vital information. |
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Re: 𝗭𝗢𝗢𝗠 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿
Thanks Bill
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Agree and interested Martin Hameline VoileOVent Maramu On Apr 19, 2020, at 10:40 AM, Marco Mancini <marcomancini61@...> wrote:
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Re: 𝗭𝗢𝗢𝗠 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿
Marco Mancini
Thanks Bill will be of course a nice initiative to meet the Amel community.
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cheers Marco Mancini SM Desiree 304
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Re: Excessive usage of water maker membranes
Miles
Hi Mark, I once ruined a set of membranes by putting chlorinated dock water in the boat and then back flushing. Since then any shore water that goes into the boat first goes through a “whole house” filter that removes chlorine. To check this, I have test stripes that measure the amount of chlorine in water. The test kit is sold in tropical fish stores. My filters are over 10 years old. I have been told that the more the filters are used, the longer they will last. When I don’t use the water maker much, the TDS goes up toward 300. When I use the water maker for my total supply off-shore or in a very clean harbor, the TDS goes back down toward 200. I agree with the comments. I also run the water without pressure for several minutes when I turn it on to get all the fresh water from the back flushing out. I agree with Alan that the pressure with fresh water could be damaging. Regards, Miles s/y Ladybug, sm216, locked down in Le Marin, Martinique
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Re: 𝗭𝗢𝗢𝗠 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿
Anthony Wetmore
We would definitely be interested in this as new Santorin owners since December. We have much to learn.
Tony Wetmore Notorious |
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Re: Shaft and propeller for Sharki - R&D project.
Diego de Miguel (Sailing Living Lab) Amel Sharki
Merci Philippe!
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Re: Shaft and propeller for Sharki - R&D project.
Diego de Miguel (Sailing Living Lab) Amel Sharki
Merci Dominique!
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Re: 𝗭𝗢𝗢𝗠 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿
PAOLO CUNEO
Hi Bill, Hi all,
No matter the topics, it is a fantastic opportunity to get closer to our great community. I am in by all means! Paolo Cuneo SM 454 “ Whisper” Inviato da iPad |
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Re: 𝗭𝗢𝗢𝗠 𝗴𝗲𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿
Charles Bell
Interested, please invite me,
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Re: Excessive usage of water maker membranes
Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
Mohammad,
I was told by Martin to run the water maker with the pressure at the beginning of the green zone. It also says this in the manual.
Cheers, Paul S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mohammad Shirloo
Sent: 19 April 2020 08:32 To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Excessive usage of water maker membranes
Hi;
When we first purchased Kokomo, I had detailed discussions with Martin, the head tech at Dessalator, about the environments that the water maker could be used and best practices. The following was my takeaway:
We have done the above for 5 seasons of about 5 months each. The pre-filters typically last a whole season. We never put any water in the tank other than from the water maker. The water quality is always below 250 PPM. When we purchased Kokomo, the water maker had only 60 hours on it. So, I’m fairly sure that our membranes are original from 2008 and therefore 12 years old. The water maker now has around 550 hours. I was told that after 500 hours, the quality will probably start to drop. Our usage has solely been in the Med.
Happy Sailing;
Mohammad and Aty B&B Kokomo AMEL 54 #099
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Erdos via groups.io
Hi Colin,
Yes, I re-read that part and it is a little confusing how I wrote it. In marina, we do a fresh water flush aobut once a week. We do not run the water maker in that environment.
Thanks for the insight, I guess I need to be more fussy about where we run it. I thought the pre-filter would help a lot. I guess not.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of islandpearl2_sm2k332
Hi Mark
We had the 100L/Hr Duo on Island Pearl II and went around the work in three years with a new 2016 set of membranes. Those membranes were still perfect at the end of our trip doing a full 100L/Hr easily on the a/c current but slightly down to 75L/hr on the DC current motor.
We were absolutely fussy about the cleanliness of ocean water before running it and were sometimes scoffed at by others eg in Rodrigues (Indian Ocean) for lifting anchor, risking losing our good spot to go out to sea every four-five days to make water whilst other cruiser friends simply made water inside the large seawater harbour where we felt the water was not up to scratch. Also, we never took the boat out onto the hard for a season, even though we had planned to do this in the Caribbean in 2019.
If you are careful like this, which I suspect you are, then there must be something else at play with your system and I look forward to hearing about that from other more experienced cruisers here.
Also, since we have communicated often and I admire your equally careful approach to looking after Creampuff, I highly suspect that when you refer to "running your watermaker at least once per week in marina's", that you actually meant "doing a freshwater flush cycle" in the marina from your tank as per the manual requirements.... rather than actually making water from the extremely dirty marina seawater which would totally explain everything about your problems, but which I am equally sure you would never have done.
Colin Streeter Brisbane ex Island Pearl II
On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:10 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:
-- Colin Streeter 0411 016 445 -- Cheers Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 |
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Re: Excessive usage of water maker membranes
Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
Mark,
Mine recently went bad after just a few months use. It turns out that there was a boat upwind of us in the anchorage leaking diesel. I’m told that any kind of fuel leak is very bad for membranes and can destroy them quickly. If you are using your water maker in a marina on a regular basis then I would think there is a possibility that it may be a small quantity of hydrocarbons in the water on a regular basis getting into your membranes.
Cheers, Paul S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Erdos
Sent: 19 April 2020 01:22 To: AmelYachtOwners@groups.io Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Excessive usage of water maker membranes
I need a little help with water maker usage and maintenance, please.
Cream Puff has a 24v D60 water-maker. My problem is we seem to be going through membranes at the rate of a pair a year. I have read where others have used the same set of membranes for years and still get drinkable water. This is not the case with us. We are in our 5th year of full time cruising and are now on our 6th set of membranes.
When I last change membranes in Colombia, this was about March 2019. Our current membranes are just over a year old. The PPMs are starting to creep up a bit now and we have gone from the 300 range to the 500 range. We notice a change in drinking quality over 600 PPMs. This is when we usually change the membranes.
We run the water-maker at least once a week when in a marina, flush it with the fresh water rinse. I have a double charcoal filter set up for the tank rinse. When on anchor it is run just about every day. I am careful to watch the pressure and water making float gauge. I normally set it at 55 liters per hour and this put the pressure in lower side of the green range.
Any ideas why our membranes are not lasting or why our PPMs creep up?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia
-- Cheers Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 |
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