Date   

Re: Self Insurance

Patrick McAneny
 

Teun, I have often thought if we as sizable sub group of Amel owners approached an Insurance Co. with a group buy ,if it would be possible to obtain better coverage at a better price. The same way groups obtain group medical insurance at a better rate than individuals. 
Just a thought,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Teun BAAS <teun@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, May 18, 2020 12:41 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Self Insurance

Hi Pat & Kent,
 
Since we might be able to make the point of: A) AMEL boats; B) AMEL owners - and therefore a lower risk (????) - combined with thoughts/approach similar to your concept below it might make sense to research a synthetic form by approaching an insurance company for a joint?
 
F.e: no USA insurance company is willing to write/cover my ASTON MARTIN but HAGERTY in MI specializes in this and insured at a lower premium than my the main USA insurers carry my BMW/AUDI.
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
In storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
May 18, 2020 09:38:21
 
USA cell: +1 832 477 8842
AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909
 
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 05:56
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Self Insurance
 
This is a rough outline of a self insurance or shared risk co-op, that I sent Kent and thought I would share with the group. It was prompted by the hassle I have had with obtaining insurance, the restrictions and expense.  Bill suggested self insuring and just buying liability insurance, however in the event of a total loss, it would be a big financial hit, that I could not afford. However, if I could share that risk with even ten others or better yet many more, it would soften the loss. When you consider how few Amel's have been lost outside of a hurricane zone, the risk seems very low, and yet we need to insure against such a great financial lose.
 
1. A  LLC. formed
 
2. An administrator and board to accept membership ,assess deposit amount , administer funds and assess claims.
 
3. A one time deposit could be a percentage of agreed fixed value, perhaps 2 or 2.5% ,eg. $200,000 boat would amount to a $5000 deposit into the fund
 
4. Coverage would be for total loss , fixed value minus say 10% deductible. Figuring most owners could absorb some loss ,and insurance companies have deductibles as well. Hurricane zones excluded.
 
5. Perhaps lightning strike coverage , perhaps coverage would be ,replace with new equipment ,minus a 30 % deductible.This would probably be the largest source of loss. May have a surcharge or higher deductible for Florida locations.
 
6. All funds would be in an interest bearing account,if you can find anyone paying interest.
 
7. Upon leaving the group , the owner would receive a 50% refund of his deposit assuming they had no claims. 
 
8. Perhaps a .20% of fixed value annual fee to go to cost of administration .eg. $3000,000. boat x.20% = $600. annual fee
 
Assuming 200 owners/members at average boat value of $300,000 x 2.5 % = $7,500 deposit or $1,500,000.00 in funds.
a $300,000. loss of a boat would break down to a loss of $1,350. for each of the 200 members.
 
This could even work on a smaller scale . If ten owners shared responsibility for loss. $300,000 minus deductible of 10% ,would be $ 270,000.000 divided by ten owners or $27,000 per owner. Its all about spreading the risk.
 
I wonder why no group has formed a risk co-op as yet. Maybe because insurance used to be less restrictive and more reasonably priced .
 
Stay Safe,
Pat
SM 123
Shenanigans
 
 


A54 top loading fridge /freezer strut

Sv Garulfo
 

Hello

Could anyone please confirm the details for the strut of the top loading fridge/freezer of the AMEL 54? And suggest a provider/ website?

Thanks for your help
Best
Soraya


Garulfo A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia


Re: Hot Water Heater Power Consumption

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Hier follow this link 
You can find a boiler 
230v /24 v 
From 20-60 l 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Self Insurance

Teun BAAS
 

Hi Pat & Kent,

 

Since we might be able to make the point of: A) AMEL boats; B) AMEL owners - and therefore a lower risk (????) - combined with thoughts/approach similar to your concept below it might make sense to research a synthetic form by approaching an insurance company for a joint?

 

F.e: no USA insurance company is willing to write/cover my ASTON MARTIN but HAGERTY in MI specializes in this and insured at a lower premium than my the main USA insurers carry my BMW/AUDI.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

May 18, 2020 09:38:21

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 05:56
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Self Insurance

 

This is a rough outline of a self insurance or shared risk co-op, that I sent Kent and thought I would share with the group. It was prompted by the hassle I have had with obtaining insurance, the restrictions and expense.  Bill suggested self insuring and just buying liability insurance, however in the event of a total loss, it would be a big financial hit, that I could not afford. However, if I could share that risk with even ten others or better yet many more, it would soften the loss. When you consider how few Amel's have been lost outside of a hurricane zone, the risk seems very low, and yet we need to insure against such a great financial lose.

 

1. A  LLC. formed

 

2. An administrator and board to accept membership ,assess deposit amount , administer funds and assess claims.

 

3. A one time deposit could be a percentage of agreed fixed value, perhaps 2 or 2.5% ,eg. $200,000 boat would amount to a $5000 deposit into the fund

 

4. Coverage would be for total loss , fixed value minus say 10% deductible. Figuring most owners could absorb some loss ,and insurance companies have deductibles as well. Hurricane zones excluded.

 

5. Perhaps lightning strike coverage , perhaps coverage would be ,replace with new equipment ,minus a 30 % deductible.This would probably be the largest source of loss. May have a surcharge or higher deductible for Florida locations.

 

6. All funds would be in an interest bearing account,if you can find anyone paying interest.

 

7. Upon leaving the group , the owner would receive a 50% refund of his deposit assuming they had no claims. 

 

8. Perhaps a .20% of fixed value annual fee to go to cost of administration .eg. $3000,000. boat x.20% = $600. annual fee

 

Assuming 200 owners/members at average boat value of $300,000 x 2.5 % = $7,500 deposit or $1,500,000.00 in funds.

a $300,000. loss of a boat would break down to a loss of $1,350. for each of the 200 members.

 

This could even work on a smaller scale . If ten owners shared responsibility for loss. $300,000 minus deductible of 10% ,would be $ 270,000.000 divided by ten owners or $27,000 per owner. Its all about spreading the risk.

 

I wonder why no group has formed a risk co-op as yet. Maybe because insurance used to be less restrictive and more reasonably priced .

 

Stay Safe,

Pat

SM 123
Shenanigans

 

 


Re: Zink Anode for SPURS Line Cutter

Teun BAAS
 

Hi Alexander,

 

I am aware of all the anodes you mention but, maybe a dumb question, where is the anode on the ONAN Generator?

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

May 18, 2020 09:18:17

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alexander Hofmann via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2020 23:57
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Zink Anode for SPURS Line Cutter

 

Bonjour Olivier, hello Rudi and Scott,

I want to add my observations of some years: The zinc anode of the Spurs line cutter is completely away after a year, if you do not have the zinc anode on the nose of (in my case folding) propeller. This means, the protection of the big 2 anodes on the rudder blade is most seemingly not enough to protect the line cutter (and the propeller I believe) from corrosion.
After installing the zinc anode on the propeller (instead of the 'red nose plastic' - as Olivier says), which by the way is quite easy also in diving, I detect no corrosion anymore at the zinc anode of the Spurs line cutter.
I am happy now with a full set of zinc anodes from bow to aft, on (1) the bow thruster, (2) the Onan Generator, (3) the spurs line cutter, (4) the nose of the Propeller and (5) the 2 big ones at the rudder blade.

This should last and avoid any corrosion easily a year!

Best regards
Alexander Hofmann, SY Oceanica I, Amel 54#156


Re: Near constant hot water without a generator - Here is how i did it.

Ryan Meador
 

There's nothing special about "AC" vs "DC" for these heater elements, but the voltage does matter, and in common boating usage these current types imply a voltage as well.  The element is just a resistor, so to achieve the desired number of watts, the resistance is sized for a specific voltage.  If you run a 240V element at 24V, you'll get 1/10th the rated output (and vice versa will likely explode).  The other electronics involved (like the thermostat) may actually care about AC vs DC and the voltage; I'm not sure.

Some marine water heaters have two ports so you can have both AC and DC elements at the same time.  I've heard using a DC water heater element as a wind generator's dump load works well.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:25 AM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Our water heater is an Isotherm.
I haven’t looked at the element nut size.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On May 18, 2020, at 7:36 AM, Eric Meury <ericmeury@...> wrote:

hey matt. 

im not 100% sure if there is a difference but i do know that my AC element way to many watts going out.  This is the unit i purchased.  https://globalsolarsupply.com/product/diversion-load-water-heating-element-60a12v-30a24v/

it will work for 12 or 24 volt.  I think if you goole the type of water heater you have you can find out the size of the element.   You will most likely need the professional tool to remove the water heater element.  The cheap home ones will simply not do the job.  at least on my tank that was the case.  ...What brand of water heater do you have?


Re: My Plotter has stopped providing CTS information

John Clanton <jclanton@...>
 

Bob,

 

A few things to check:

  • My 55 has a heading sensor in the forward cabin bilge storage.  That is the first thing I would check.  At delivery, Kevin made a point of warning us to keep any ferrous metal at least three feet away from the sensor.
  • I am not on my boat, but in looking at the manual, there is a section under initial setup that should indicate if it is receiving heading sensor information.
  • Easiest way - Email Stephane at Pochon (stephane@...) with the question.  Include hull number, Furuno model number.

 

 

John W. Clanton

S/V Devereux, 55, No. 65

Antibes, France


Self Insurance

Patrick McAneny
 

This is a rough outline of a self insurance or shared risk co-op, that I sent Kent and thought I would share with the group. It was prompted by the hassle I have had with obtaining insurance, the restrictions and expense.  Bill suggested self insuring and just buying liability insurance, however in the event of a total loss, it would be a big financial hit, that I could not afford. However, if I could share that risk with even ten others or better yet many more, it would soften the loss. When you consider how few Amel's have been lost outside of a hurricane zone, the risk seems very low, and yet we need to insure against such a great financial lose.

1. A  LLC. formed
 
2. An administrator and board to accept membership ,assess deposit amount , administer funds and assess claims.
 
3. A one time deposit could be a percentage of agreed fixed value, perhaps 2 or 2.5% ,eg. $200,000 boat would amount to a $5000 deposit into the fund
 
4. Coverage would be for total loss , fixed value minus say 10% deductible. Figuring most owners could absorb some loss ,and insurance companies have deductibles as well. Hurricane zones excluded.
 
5. Perhaps lightning strike coverage , perhaps coverage would be ,replace with new equipment ,minus a 30 % deductible.This would probably be the largest source of loss. May have a surcharge or higher deductible for Florida locations.
 
6. All funds would be in an interest bearing account,if you can find anyone paying interest.
 
7. Upon leaving the group , the owner would receive a 50% refund of his deposit assuming they had no claims. 
 
8. Perhaps a .20% of fixed value annual fee to go to cost of administration .eg. $3000,000. boat x.20% = $600. annual fee
 
Assuming 200 owners/members at average boat value of $300,000 x 2.5 % = $7,500 deposit or $1,500,000.00 in funds.
a $300,000. loss of a boat would break down to a loss of $1,350. for each of the 200 members.
 
This could even work on a smaller scale . If ten owners shared responsibility for loss. $300,000 minus deductible of 10% ,would be $ 270,000.000 divided by ten owners or $27,000 per owner. Its all about spreading the risk.
 
I wonder why no group has formed a risk co-op as yet. Maybe because insurance used to be less restrictive and more reasonably priced .
 
Stay Safe,
Pat
SM 123
Shenanigans
 
 


Re: My Plotter has stopped providing CTS information

 

Bob, is it possible that the heading sensor is disconnected or not working?

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 11:23 PM Bob Grey via groups.io <renaissanceiii=yahoo.com.au@groups.io> wrote:
Good morning Captains, I have an interesting problem on my Amel 55, The Furuno plotter has stopped providing Course to Steer information when I select a waypoint. One day it just stopped, and I'm not sure why, everything else works fine just no CTS on the display information.

Any ideas??

Bob Grey
Amel 55 #25
Renaissance 3


Re: anchor wash safety note

greg greg
 

in my experience the problem arises when AWP is not used frequently enough. it gets clogged with sea debris and requires the full refurbishing some time. the good thing is it't bronze and can be repaired :)
 


Re: Near constant hot water without a generator - Here is how i did it.

Matt Salatino
 

Our water heater is an Isotherm.
I haven’t looked at the element nut size.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On May 18, 2020, at 7:36 AM, Eric Meury <ericmeury@...> wrote:

hey matt. 

im not 100% sure if there is a difference but i do know that my AC element way to many watts going out.  This is the unit i purchased.  https://globalsolarsupply.com/product/diversion-load-water-heating-element-60a12v-30a24v/

it will work for 12 or 24 volt.  I think if you goole the type of water heater you have you can find out the size of the element.   You will most likely need the professional tool to remove the water heater element.  The cheap home ones will simply not do the job.  at least on my tank that was the case.  ...What brand of water heater do you have?


Re: Zink Anode for SPURS Line Cutter

Alexander Hofmann
 

Bonjour Olivier, hello Rudi and Scott,

I want to add my observations of some years: The zinc anode of the Spurs line cutter is completely away after a year, if you do not have the zinc anode on the nose of (in my case folding) propeller. This means, the protection of the big 2 anodes on the rudder blade is most seemingly not enough to protect the line cutter (and the propeller I believe) from corrosion.
After installing the zinc anode on the propeller (instead of the 'red nose plastic' - as Olivier says), which by the way is quite easy also in diving, I detect no corrosion anymore at the zinc anode of the Spurs line cutter.
I am happy now with a full set of zinc anodes from bow to aft, on (1) the bow thruster, (2) the Onan Generator, (3) the spurs line cutter, (4) the nose of the Propeller and (5) the 2 big ones at the rudder blade.

This should last and avoid any corrosion easily a year!

Best regards
Alexander Hofmann, SY Oceanica I, Amel 54#156


Re: Zink Anode for SPURS Line Cutter

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hi Olivier
Thank you. Yes you are completely right. I forgot that U-shaped plastic part which isolate the SPURS from the bonded shaft. 
Have a nice day 
Ruedi

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of "Beaute Olivier via groups.io" <atlanticyachtsurvey@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Sonntag, 17. Mai 2020 um 11:31
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Zink Anode for SPURS Line Cutter

Hello Rudi and Scott,

the reason for the zinc on the SPURS rope-cutter is that it is attached to the fixed blade which is in fact isolated from the prop shaft by a plastic U-shaped part (you will have a close look next time)  Therefore, this fixed blade is not correctly bonded to the rudder zincs, and it is important to keep its zinc in good condition.
The purpose of the plastic part is to reduce friction betwen the shaft and the fixed blade.

Have a nice day.

Olivier.


Re: Near constant hot water without a generator - Here is how i did it.

Eric Meury
 

hey matt. 

im not 100% sure if there is a difference but i do know that my AC element way to many watts going out.  This is the unit i purchased.  https://globalsolarsupply.com/product/diversion-load-water-heating-element-60a12v-30a24v/

it will work for 12 or 24 volt.  I think if you goole the type of water heater you have you can find out the size of the element.   You will most likely need the professional tool to remove the water heater element.  The cheap home ones will simply not do the job.  at least on my tank that was the case.  ...What brand of water heater do you have?


Re: My Plotter has stopped providing CTS information

Mark Erdos
 

Bob,

 

 

I don’t have a Furuno plotter but I am wondering if you can restore the default settings.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Grey via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2020 6:23 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] My Plotter has stopped providing CTS information

 

Good morning Captains, I have an interesting problem on my Amel 55, The Furuno plotter has stopped providing Course to Steer information when I select a waypoint. One day it just stopped, and I'm not sure why, everything else works fine just no CTS on the display information.

Any ideas??

Bob Grey
Amel 55 #25
Renaissance 3


My Plotter has stopped providing CTS information

Bob Grey
 

Good morning Captains, I have an interesting problem on my Amel 55, The Furuno plotter has stopped providing Course to Steer information when I select a waypoint. One day it just stopped, and I'm not sure why, everything else works fine just no CTS on the display information.

Any ideas??

Bob Grey
Amel 55 #25
Renaissance 3


Re: Insurance

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,

I think we would quickly find out why insurance companies are trying to get out of the game.

As to self insurance, ie carrying the risk myself. I don't, but if I took my premiums over 12 years collectively they would have over-subsrcibed my claims noticeably, even if a 50K lightning one was included. On shore in NZ is reasonable. Go off shore and up goes the premium

Kind Regards

Danny

On 18 May 2020 at 13:22 "karkauai via groups.io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Given the insurance problems everyone is having, I thought I'd see if there is enough interest and/or expertise to pursue an AYOG self-insurance program.
Pat (Shenanigans) and I have talked about it a little. Here's the gist of what we discussed:

1. A buy-in of some percentage of your boat's  value that would be enough to cover the first year.  For example, a $300,000 SM owner might pay 2% or $6,000. If we had 200 similar owners, we'd have $1,200,000 to pay out.

2. It would' be a high deductible coverage  designed primarily to pay for total loss. Maybe something like 20% of the boat's value.

3. The most common claim would probably be lightening damage, which often amounts to $50,000 or more.  Our plan might pay for half of a major claim like that?

4. Boat's would have to be out of the hurricane zones during the season.  Any other restrictions?

5. Yearly Assessments could replenish what was paid out  Or we could continue to pay in until the principle was self-sustaining. That would require investing the funds and a whole added layer of complexity.

6. A rotating Board of unpaid members would oversee the plan (maybe a LLC?), and an administrator would be hired to do the paperwork.

7. Owners would purchase their own liability insurance.

This is all just a very rough framework that can be built on, scrapped and something else adopted, or what ever seems appropriate.  Any and all thoughts and suggestions are encouraged. I'm hoping we might have an owner or two that have some insurance or legal expertise to help us understand the potential pitfalls and options available.

Thanks for your ideas.
Kent
Kristy
S M 243


Re: Onan ballbearing check and valves values

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello and thanks 4 your answers.

But the question was:

Is there a procedure to check the generator bearings for wear? As mentioned in the manual / service plan?

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54#39 
Martinique 

On Sun, May 17, 2020, 18:41 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
Sorry, guys. I did exactly the same thing as Gary Silver, and the bearing was never installed.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 12:45 PM Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Gary,
It's been awhile, but I replaced the rotor bearing on my Northern Lights 6kw genset in situ with little difficulty. The rotor remains bolted to the flywheel as you remove the end with the bearing - no external support needed. I recall I did the old put-it-in-the-freezer trick to shrink the bearing and it slid in with no press needed.  That was at about 3000 hours; now I'm at 7500 and am overdue, so will tackle again soon. (I'm getting a very slight vibration with heavy loads.)
If you want to remove the rotor, as I did because it needed rewinding from salt water corrosion shorting the wires ($176 in La Paz VZ), it's heavy but quite manageable by hand. However it doesn't sound like you'd need to remove it for the 2500 hr. (if I recall correctly) bearing replacement..
Cheers, Craig


Re: SN, SM, & 54 owners: If your outhaul line has ever slipped, this is a great idea

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Very interesting Bill. The amount of tension required to avoid the line slipping has always been a concern. Who knows when we’ll be back on board. But I will take a look and see if its something we would pursue.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2020 5:38 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] SN, SM, & 54 owners: If your outhaul line has ever slipped, this is a great idea

 

The photo below is of an Amel 55. I have been aboard several 55's but never really noticed the fairleads near the outhaul winch. The way these fairleads are placed causes the outhaul winch to have a much better grasp of the outhaul line. If we could make this change on models previous to the 55, we could reduce the amount of tension on the outhaul line.

 

If anyone is so inclined to take on this project I will be happy to assist.

 

image.png

 

It would be a perfect job with cutting, welding, and painting, but maybe there is a much simpler way to accomplish this.

image.png

 

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar


Insurance

karkauai
 

Hi All,
Given the insurance problems everyone is having, I thought I'd see if there is enough interest and/or expertise to pursue an AYOG self-insurance program.
Pat (Shenanigans) and I have talked about it a little. Here's the gist of what we discussed:

1. A buy-in of some percentage of your boat's  value that would be enough to cover the first year.  For example, a $300,000 SM owner might pay 2% or $6,000. If we had 200 similar owners, we'd have $1,200,000 to pay out.

2. It would' be a high deductible coverage  designed primarily to pay for total loss. Maybe something like 20% of the boat's value.

3. The most common claim would probably be lightening damage, which often amounts to $50,000 or more.  Our plan might pay for half of a major claim like that?

4. Boat's would have to be out of the hurricane zones during the season.  Any other restrictions?

5. Yearly Assessments could replenish what was paid out  Or we could continue to pay in until the principle was self-sustaining. That would require investing the funds and a whole added layer of complexity.

6. A rotating Board of unpaid members would oversee the plan (maybe a LLC?), and an administrator would be hired to do the paperwork.

7. Owners would purchase their own liability insurance.

This is all just a very rough framework that can be built on, scrapped and something else adopted, or what ever seems appropriate.  Any and all thoughts and suggestions are encouraged. I'm hoping we might have an owner or two that have some insurance or legal expertise to help us understand the potential pitfalls and options available.

Thanks for your ideas.
Kent
Kristy
S M 243