biggest problem with not starting the Gen is that you significantly shorten the life of your lead acid or gel batteries I'm not sure about lithiums just ask me how I know.........after killing 12 lead acid in just 2 seasons

Courtney

Trippin

54 #101 

-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jul 22, 2020 10:53 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A 55 # 9 : Chargeing and mastershunts

Craig, I have known Amel to "learn" and add recommendations that did not exist 30 years ago. I don't know when the generator recommendation started, but it in fact does exist.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 9:15 AM Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi John,
I stand corrected, thanks.

That you must leave the helm, go below and take, what?, 2-3 minutes to fire everything up, then return to begin docking strikes me as a procedure destined to be ignored.

Be that as it may, I can say with absolute certainty that Amel never gave that instruction for the SN ;-)
Cheers, Craig

I want to clean my fuel tank, I can only see one small cap that I assume is for the sending unit. Before I tear off the foam cover glued to the tank looking for a larger inspection port, I thought I would ask if one exists on the top of the tank.
 Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans

Hello Bill,

              Thank you very much for responding so swiftly.

   I am with my boat in Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands. I had assumed the small charger and the 24V to 220V inverter were part of Pure Magic's comfort package, but other than the manufacturers' operating manuals - which I have read - I am not aware of installation documentation specific to my boat. Pure Magic had one previous owner and it may help if I contact him to see if he can fill in the information. If the problem with switching on the small charger and immediately  tripping  the main 220V breaker in the autopilot compartment (and this developed only after mistakenly starting the genset with the small charger still switched on - which the SM manual expressly advises against) does not sound familar to any one, then I should probably choose between looking behind the 220V switch panel or inside the small charger for a short ( after isolating the boat from mains power) or involving a specialist electrician. I am curious to know what type of damage risk the SM manual is cautioning against when it stresses the importance of not starting the genset when there are appliances still switched on at the 220 V switch panel.Is it damage to the genset or damage to the appliances?

  If there is any other approach you would recommend I'd be grateful for your advice..

          Thanks again for your help,

             Chris Bromley

            

On July 22, 2020 at 12:35 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Chris,

I am not sure that anyone can help you here with confidence. Almost everything you listed is not original equipment. For instance a big question for me would be: Who added this equipment and is the installation documented?

Maybe we could suggest some help if you would state where you are. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 10:40 AM Christopher Bromley < bromleyc@...> wrote:

My SM Pure Magic, hull no. 433, is presently connected to shorepower @ 220V, 60 Hz. During a recent inspection I was asked to operate the Onan genset, but overlooked switching off the small battery charger on the 220V switchboard before running the genset for a few minutes. Everything controlled from the 220V swichboard is working normally except the small battery charger which usually starts off at about 35A. Now the main 220V breaker inside the rotary autopilot compartment trips off immediately if I switch on the small circuit breaker. Resetting this trip and leaving  the small charger off restores 220v & everything else on the 220V switchboard works as before. There is no sign or smell of overheated circuitry, but I think there must be a short circuit somewhere. I'd really appreciate advice on how to troubleshoot this problem or could the small charger be fried beyond repair? The small charger is a Victron Skylla-TG 24 100, if I'm looking at the right unit.
 Another couple of electrical  questions while on the forum: the large charger I only use with the genset. Typically the charger starts at about 80 - 90 A, but soon - within a minute or two - falls to 20- 30 A and tails off at less than 10A even though the battery bank is short of a full charge, perhaps down at 70%. Is there a simple adjustment I can make to the large charger to keep up its output until closer to a full charge or does the charger need a specialist electrician's attention? The large charger has operated in this way for at least a couple of years. It is a Chargemaster 24/40-3.
 Lastly, I'd like to be sure of correctly identifying the 24V to 220V inverter, the one described in the owner's manual as being capable of running the microwave long enough from the 24 V battery bank to make a cup of coffee, after which it shuts down. Where is it in the boat and how do I get the microwave to run off it rather than from shorepower or the genset? 
   Thank you for your advice,
      Chris Bromley

 

 

Chris,

On our SM, the main circuit breaker is also a GFCI.  On mine, this is indicated by a label reading "I∆n = 0.03A" on the circuit breaker, which means it has a 30mA ground fault limit.  Given that your breaker is tripping instantly and there is no sign of overcurrent (presumably the branch breaker for the charger is of a lower rating than the main one, so it should trip first), I bet you're seeing a ground fault.  This could be due to a failure inside the charger or something entirely unrelated.  Is the charger specified to accept both 50Hz and 60Hz AC?

Ryan and Kelly

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:49 PM Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Chris,
I agree with Bill, although I would note the Victron is the large 100amp charger and the Chargemaster is the small 40amp one - you may have reversed that in your post. A starting point may be to check the connections at the circuit breaker of whichever unit it is that's tripping the mains and at the unit itself. 
Both units are 3 stage chargers and the step down points are controlled by the battery voltage, not by the % charge, so, no, you can't adjust for that. There are some adjustments you can make that are covered in your instruction manuals, but it's unlikely any are needed.
Sorry, but can't help with where your inverter is.
Assume you're in the US with 60Hz - where?
Craig 

Chris,
I agree with Bill, although I would note the Victron is the large 100amp charger and the Chargemaster is the small 40amp one - you may have reversed that in your post. A starting point may be to check the connections at the circuit breaker of whichever unit it is that's tripping the mains and at the unit itself. 
Both units are 3 stage chargers and the step down points are controlled by the battery voltage, not by the % charge, so, no, you can't adjust for that. There are some adjustments you can make that are covered in your instruction manuals, but it's unlikely any are needed.
Sorry, but can't help with where your inverter is.
Assume you're in the US with 60Hz - where?
Craig 

My SM Pure Magic, hull no. 433, is presently connected to shorepower @ 220V, 60 Hz. During a recent inspection I was asked to operate the Onan genset, but overlooked switching off the small battery charger on the 220V switchboard before running the genset for a few minutes. Everything controlled from the 220V swichboard is working normally except the small battery charger which usually starts off at about 35A. Now the main 220V breaker inside the rotary autopilot compartment trips off immediately if I switch on the small circuit breaker. Resetting this trip and leaving  the small charger off restores 220v & everything else on the 220V switchboard works as before. There is no sign or smell of overheated circuitry, but I think there must be a short circuit somewhere. I'd really appreciate advice on how to troubleshoot this problem or could the small charger be fried beyond repair? The small charger is a Victron Skylla-TG 24 100, if I'm looking at the right unit.
 Another couple of electrical  questions while on the forum: the large charger I only use with the genset. Typically the charger starts at about 80 - 90 A, but soon - within a minute or two - falls to 20- 30 A and tails off at less than 10A even though the battery bank is short of a full charge, perhaps down at 70%. Is there a simple adjustment I can make to the large charger to keep up its output until closer to a full charge or does the charger need a specialist electrician's attention? The large charger has operated in this way for at least a couple of years. It is a Chargemaster 24/40-3.
 Lastly, I'd like to be sure of correctly identifying the 24V to 220V inverter, the one described in the owner's manual as being capable of running the microwave long enough from the 24 V battery bank to make a cup of coffee, after which it shuts down. Where is it in the boat and how do I get the microwave to run off it rather than from shorepower or the genset? 
   Thank you for your advice,
      Chris Bromley

I have been playing around at trying to identify the leak to no avail. So the next step will be as you suggest. I will disconnect the battery positive cables and the remove all the negative cables from the big switch and reconnect one by one to identify the circuit at fault.

Nick 

Amelia

AML54-0197

On 22 Jul 2020, at 17:46, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:



Nick,

I did it by unbolting at least one of the main switches and pulling it aside. 

You can also remove the positive wire from the battery bank to the switch by unbolting it at the junction block inside the battery compartment and also remove the positive wire on the starter battery. An alternative in the battery bank which may be easier is to remove the positive wire from the battery post each of your 6 pairs of batteries (the one to the junction block).

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 11:23 PM ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks Bill,

Alas it is not the Macerators. I hate working in the space for the main battery on/off as it is so easy to short out the positive to negative with a ratchet handle... maybe I can cover the positive with plastic sheet or something...

Nick 

Stern to in Finikas Syros waiting for the Meltemi to ease just a tad...

Amelia AML54-019

On 22 Jul 2020, at 00:43, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:



Ofer & Nick,

Remember, the minus Masse Light means there is a connection between 24-volts negative to the Amel bonding system. The most common issue is a Jabsco Macerator pump that has developed a leak at the seal, causing a connection to the Amel Bonding. Start by disconnecting the green/yellow wire from each macerator pump. If the light no longer comes ON, you have found it. Replace that macerator pump and reconnect the green/yellow wires.

If it was not the macerator pump and the light is ON for the (-) side, it is more difficult because the individual 24-volt breakers only turn OFF the positive side (+). For a negative side (-) Masse fault, you will need to disconnect the negative wires from the negative main battery switch. On most Amels, this is the lower switch. When the light goes out, you have narrowed your search to one main circuit.

If the (+) side is ON, try turning OFF each breaker throughout the boat one at a time. Don't forget breakers for the windlass, winches, and breakers in the engine room. Do this with all breakers.

I hope this helps you.

	CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  Website: www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com

View My Training Calendar

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:32 PM ofer magen <ofermagen@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,

We had the same problem.

It took long time to solve , because the light was not always ON.

The way to find where  a bad contact between the minus and the grounding system is, is to start from the main switches near the batteries, disconnect each of the cables while checking the light. Ones you find a cable that if  disconnected the is OFF, look for the equipment down the cable and check the contacts and put corrosion x.

We found the problem in the forward locker . We had a leak of water from the new Bad! installed windlass rubber deck switches that created humidity on all electrical motors in the locker.

Good luck with the challenge.

You can call me if you want more info.

Ofer Magen

A 54 160 2010

Cyprus.

+972528795540