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Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

CW Bill Rouse
 

Mark, I posted a photo (not a good one) earlier in this thread.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 1:23 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

If someone could please post a picture of the foam, this would be very helpful to me.

 

I will soon be replacing the Antenna (main mast), cables and VHF. I plan to thread the new cable from the top of the mast attaching it to the old cable while it is removed. If I can, I would like to keep the foam. I think I could add this as the new cable is being inserted but it is unclear how the foam is attached.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us
Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Then you have to go to Victron , they have a seperate BMS
one for all batteries ,
and then you have all in one hand
Charger/ inverter
Solar regulation
and altinator .

One other question
What happens with the Li Batteries and the BMS
when you take a flshlighit ?

Elja
SM Balu 222


Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Mark Erdos
 

If someone could please post a picture of the foam, this would be very helpful to me.

 

I will soon be replacing the Antenna (main mast), cables and VHF. I plan to thread the new cable from the top of the mast attaching it to the old cable while it is removed. If I can, I would like to keep the foam. I think I could add this as the new cable is being inserted but it is unclear how the foam is attached.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us
Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Arno Luijten
 

Quote:
"In the long run it is even more advisable to abandon the traditional car batterie style and take one 24 volt 400, 500 or 600Ah lithium batterie instead building it up from 12 or 24 volt sections. "

At first I had the same opinion about this. However I did think this over a bit and now I'm not so sure anymore. The point being that with a set of "autonomous" 24 volt batteries you do build in a level of redundancy. If one of the batteries/BMS-es fails you still have the others left. With one BMS. etc. you create a critical path.

I'm not saying that should be avoided at all costs but it does add food for thought into to the discussion. For me I think this technology is still not fully mature in the marine environment. One way to get around the 70-80% problem is sizing you battery system so you don't need the top 20-30% and can never charge them up to 100%. To do this you need a BMS that can (actively) balance cells at any state of charge. I only found one company that sells those at the moment. It also make LiPo even more expensive.

Cheers,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121
Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Mark Pitt
 

Hi Tom and Kirstin,

I also have had at least a dozen shutdowns in the 17 years that I have owned Sabbatical III and in every case there was a shutdown code, including shutdowns due to a faulty sensor.  So this is a new one for me.

Having a spare central board is a good idea, although now that our circumnavigation is done, not as crucial.  I heard that they are quite expensive.  My wife and I are only summer livesboards now.

Mark Pitt
SV Sabbatical III, SM419, Rhode Island


On Aug 13, 2020, at 1:09 PM, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

Hey Mark- your post caught my eye because we are hull #422....,Bill's approach (eliminate sensors one by one) is what we do on L'ORIENT. I'm troubled by the lack of a diagnostic code, though. We've probably had 15-20 genset shutdowns in the 10 years we've owned the boat; never was there no code. Since it's really easy, at some point I'd swap out the central board (if you have one). I think this is a vital spare part to have on a SM because of how much you depend on 220 v (unless you've done a major lithium conversion).

Tom and Kirstin
SM 2K 422
Hanalei Bay, Kauia

Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hi,

In the long run it is even more advisable to abandon the traditional car batterie style and take one 24 volt 400, 500 or 600Ah lithium batterie instead building it up from 12 or 24 volt sections. 

I would prefer a central based BMS controller supervising the hole batterie at once, not packages without com port where one cell does not know what the other does. 

And you should look at the guaranteed capacity. Means this battleborn has only 90% capacity, according to their discharge graph. In my eyes thats a hint for low quality? 
A good quality batterie, with good chemistry inside, will guarantee 100 to 108% capacity.

There is no "drop in batterie" that is misleading because in the end you need to setup all the electronics, chargers, BMS aso. to lithium. That is the real change. Not in what plastic case the cells are packed.

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 





On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 07:21 Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Battle  Born was not very explicit about it in the Zoom meeting last week but in the long run it is very much advisable to use the 24 volt units instead of the 12 volt units. 

Using 24 volt units makes sure you will balance cells across 24 volts instead of 2 x 12 volt leaving a potential unbalance between the two 12 volt banks.
For capacity the answer is simple, as much as you wallet can last. You will always find ways to spend the available capacity in the end, so more is better. 

For your chargers you will need to investigate if you can set them to the exact same charging parameters. That may be difficult.
Also think about your charging regime. Again Battle Born was not very explicit about this but if you boat is connected to shore power for extended periods, you should lower your float voltage to reduce the state of charge to 70-80%. This can be difficult to achieve if you have several charge sources as this means adjusting it very precisely, up to tenths of volts accurate.
I did not like the way Battle Born played down this issue but Lithium batteries do not like to be kept at 100% charge level for extended periods. Even Tesla has extended logic in their battery management to handle this issue. So when Battle Born claims it has superior cells that do not suffer from this problem, I’m skeptical.

Just my 2 cents....

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121
Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Yes, and you should cut the altinator so that batteries are not always loaded in full during a long drive
Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Thomas Kleman
 

Hey Mark- your post caught my eye because we are hull #422....,Bill's approach (eliminate sensors one by one) is what we do on L'ORIENT. I'm troubled by the lack of a diagnostic code, though. We've probably had 15-20 genset shutdowns in the 10 years we've owned the boat; never was there no code. Since it's really easy, at some point I'd swap out the central board (if you have one). I think this is a vital spare part to have on a SM because of how much you depend on 220 v (unless you've done a major lithium conversion).

Tom and Kirstin
SM 2K 422
Hanalei Bay, Kauia
Re: 175A alternator belts

Alan Leslie
 

We have the 175A LN alternator on a Yanmar 4JH3TE with double pulleys on the LN Alternator, and single on the 12V alternator.
All three belts are the same... Dayco cogged belts, no idlers, A section belts
Sorry not on the boat can't give you the specs, but they're probably on file on the site somewhere 
I'll check tomorrow
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Re: 175A alternator belts

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello,

I got and tested the Optibelt pullys for 90mm discs. 
And to be tightened over their back. 

Did not change anything. Still dust and wear. 

I will switch to serpentine belts. Can' t be worse.

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 08:25 ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have adjusted the alignment and it is spot on. 
My theory is that I have been using B section belts (17mm) and the alt pulley has 84mm diameter. (This was what was on the boat when I bought her in 2017.) and  according to belt specs The minimum diameter pulley should be 112mm.
Now Optibelt do a 17mm B section belt that can cope with 90mm pulley. I have ordered a pair but that is still larger than my 83mm.
If my theory is correct then I will have to machine the pulleys to accept 13mm belts such that they do not bottom out as 13mm belts can cope with smaller pulley diameters. 
Alternatively get a 112mm pulley for the alternator but then pulley ratio will be close to 2:1 not 3:1
Or switch to a serpentine belt which involve new pulleys for both alternator and the engine.

So my first port of call is to find out what pulleys other Amel owners are using.
Nick
Amelia AML54-019
Simi Greece

On 13 Aug 2020, at 15:09, Bill Hall <billhall95688@...> wrote:


Hi Nick

Have you checked the pully alignment?  Miss alignment will cause excessive belt wear

Hope this helps

Bill Hall
Looking to own an Amel

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:24 AM ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

The saga goes on. The belts for my 24v Leece Neville 175a alternator do not last and produce dust.
So I have been scratching my head....and coming to some conclusions....

 But before I go on can someone with the 175a 24v twin belt pulley set up let me know what pulley diameters you are using and what width belt and if you use cogged belt with the idlers or not?
Nick
S/Y Amelia
Simi Greece
AML54-019
Re: 175A alternator belts

ngtnewington Newington
 

I have adjusted the alignment and it is spot on. 
My theory is that I have been using B section belts (17mm) and the alt pulley has 84mm diameter. (This was what was on the boat when I bought her in 2017.) and  according to belt specs The minimum diameter pulley should be 112mm.
Now Optibelt do a 17mm B section belt that can cope with 90mm pulley. I have ordered a pair but that is still larger than my 83mm.
If my theory is correct then I will have to machine the pulleys to accept 13mm belts such that they do not bottom out as 13mm belts can cope with smaller pulley diameters. 
Alternatively get a 112mm pulley for the alternator but then pulley ratio will be close to 2:1 not 3:1
Or switch to a serpentine belt which involve new pulleys for both alternator and the engine.

So my first port of call is to find out what pulleys other Amel owners are using.
Nick
Amelia AML54-019
Simi Greece

On 13 Aug 2020, at 15:09, Bill Hall <billhall95688@...> wrote:


Hi Nick

Have you checked the pully alignment?  Miss alignment will cause excessive belt wear

Hope this helps

Bill Hall
Looking to own an Amel

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:24 AM ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

The saga goes on. The belts for my 24v Leece Neville 175a alternator do not last and produce dust.
So I have been scratching my head....and coming to some conclusions....

 But before I go on can someone with the 175a 24v twin belt pulley set up let me know what pulley diameters you are using and what width belt and if you use cogged belt with the idlers or not?
Nick
S/Y Amelia
Simi Greece
AML54-019
Re: 175A alternator belts

Bill Hall
 

Hi Nick

Have you checked the pully alignment?  Miss alignment will cause excessive belt wear

Hope this helps

Bill Hall
Looking to own an Amel

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:24 AM ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

The saga goes on. The belts for my 24v Leece Neville 175a alternator do not last and produce dust.
So I have been scratching my head....and coming to some conclusions....

 But before I go on can someone with the 175a 24v twin belt pulley set up let me know what pulley diameters you are using and what width belt and if you use cogged belt with the idlers or not?
Nick
S/Y Amelia
Simi Greece
AML54-019
Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Arno Luijten
 

Battle  Born was not very explicit about it in the Zoom meeting last week but in the long run it is very much advisable to use the 24 volt units instead of the 12 volt units. 

Using 24 volt units makes sure you will balance cells across 24 volts instead of 2 x 12 volt leaving a potential unbalance between the two 12 volt banks.
For capacity the answer is simple, as much as you wallet can last. You will always find ways to spend the available capacity in the end, so more is better. 

For your chargers you will need to investigate if you can set them to the exact same charging parameters. That may be difficult.
Also think about your charging regime. Again Battle Born was not very explicit about this but if you boat is connected to shore power for extended periods, you should lower your float voltage to reduce the state of charge to 70-80%. This can be difficult to achieve if you have several charge sources as this means adjusting it very precisely, up to tenths of volts accurate.
I did not like the way Battle Born played down this issue but Lithium batteries do not like to be kept at 100% charge level for extended periods. Even Tesla has extended logic in their battery management to handle this issue. So when Battle Born claims it has superior cells that do not suffer from this problem, I’m skeptical.

Just my 2 cents....

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121
Re: Run 2500w inverter always even on shore power?

Billy Newport
 

Agreed Scott,
Separate charger/inverter is the way to go with Victron and solves this problem once and for all. Just adding sensors all over my boat to measure anything I can think of at the moment. Added a shore power sensor yesterday. My Climma uses about 4kw normally but does spike to 9k briefly on startup I'm assuming. You're victron should have data on its power draw, do you have 24 hours of graphs you can post out of interest? You could get it from VRM Portal if you have a CCGX/GX pushing it up to VRM.
175A alternator belts

ngtnewington Newington
 

The saga goes on. The belts for my 24v Leece Neville 175a alternator do not last and produce dust.
So I have been scratching my head....and coming to some conclusions....

But before I go on can someone with the 175a 24v twin belt pulley set up let me know what pulley diameters you are using and what width belt and if you use cogged belt with the idlers or not?
Nick
S/Y Amelia
Simi Greece
AML54-019
Re: new Rigg on SM2000

Denis Foster
 

Thank s for this information. I will look at it.
Regards
Denis 

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 13 août 2020 à 08:27, Eloi Bamberg <eloi.bamberg@...> a écrit :

The cables comes from www.wdi.de

Eloi

Re: new Rigg on SM2000

Eloi Bamberg
 

The cables comes from www.wdi.de

Eloi
Re: Switch to LiFePO4

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Look at the BattleBorn site; you will find an area which says ‘ask us’.  They should know the answer as they support Victron.

Good luck and keep us posted...

Jean-Pierre Germain, SY Eleuthera, SM007, NZ


On 13 Aug 2020, at 12:04, karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...> wrote:



Hi All, especially those who have switched to Lithium
I am going to take the leap when we get back to the Chesapeake in October.
I currently have:
**105A Magnun Charger/4000W inverter with remote control  panel
**80A Victron Skylla-i Charger with remote monitor
**Balmar 75 A alternator with Balmar MaxCharge MC-624 P-type multistage external regulator
**850 Watts solar panels in three series pairs, each pair with its own Victron MPPT 75 I 15 Charge Controller with Bluetooth dongle, and Victron Bluetooth network that monitors temp and voltage and sends to the MPPTs. The Bimini solar panel pair almost always has a shadow on one of the panels and doesn't produce much at all. I'm considering putting another MPPP 75 I 15 Charge Controller on that pair so each panel will operate independently.

I won't go to electric oven or use the batteries to run the AC, at least not yet, so my inverter use is exclusively to run small appliances and microwave. And I will probably make water with my 24v Desallator with the batteries. I do understand that I have to run beefier cables if I make the next transition to running larger 220v appliances.

I think I will use the Battle Borne batteries.  With above caveats, would you recommend 300, or 400AHr? Any reason I can't add another 100AHr later?  12v series pairs or 24v batteries? If 24v, how would you start engines is start battery failed?

So, other than buying batteries and configuring my chargers and charge controllers, what else do I need to make the transition to LiFePO4?

Can the Skylla-i and Magna MS-PE chargers be configured to work together so that I can charge with 185A when running the generator? How?

I am based in St Michaels, MD, across the bay from Annapolis. Do you know of an electrician in the area who can help me with configuring the system and installation of further equipment needed?  Have you worked with Peter Kennedy in Annapolis (PKYS)?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Kent and Iris
Kristy
SN 243


_._,_.
Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello Scott,

Better feed the foam line back into the mast. Imagine 20m wire swinging in the mast, that might also ruin the wires, beside possible noise. 

To feed the foam line back is no big deal.

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 15:16 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
After struggling with the mizzen for a while, we got it to work. On my main, we did as Oliver did and it made it super easy. To clarify further:

Inside each conduit there is a thinner line and a thicker line. The thinner line has the foam bits on it. So we tied a messenger line to the bottom of this thinner line and I pulled out the thinner line/foam bits from the top of the mast. The cable went through almost like butter after that. 

We ended up leaving just the newly fed messenger line in the main along with the original amel messenger line (without foam) as I've been told that others have done that without noise issues. If we get noise, I'll just try to feed the lines with the foam bits back down the mast later.

Hope this helps someone!


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Switch to LiFePO4

karkauai
 


Hi All, especially those who have switched to Lithium
I am going to take the leap when we get back to the Chesapeake in October.
I currently have:
**105A Magnun Charger/4000W inverter with remote control  panel
**80A Victron Skylla-i Charger with remote monitor
**Balmar 75 A alternator with Balmar MaxCharge MC-624 P-type multistage external regulator
**850 Watts solar panels in three series pairs, each pair with its own Victron MPPT 75 I 15 Charge Controller with Bluetooth dongle, and Victron Bluetooth network that monitors temp and voltage and sends to the MPPTs. The Bimini solar panel pair almost always has a shadow on one of the panels and doesn't produce much at all. I'm considering putting another MPPP 75 I 15 Charge Controller on that pair so each panel will operate independently.

I won't go to electric oven or use the batteries to run the AC, at least not yet, so my inverter use is exclusively to run small appliances and microwave. And I will probably make water with my 24v Desallator with the batteries. I do understand that I have to run beefier cables if I make the next transition to running larger 220v appliances.

I think I will use the Battle Borne batteries.  With above caveats, would you recommend 300, or 400AHr? Any reason I can't add another 100AHr later?  12v series pairs or 24v batteries? If 24v, how would you start engines is start battery failed?

So, other than buying batteries and configuring my chargers and charge controllers, what else do I need to make the transition to LiFePO4?

Can the Skylla-i and Magna MS-PE chargers be configured to work together so that I can charge with 185A when running the generator? How?

I am based in St Michaels, MD, across the bay from Annapolis. Do you know of an electrician in the area who can help me with configuring the system and installation of further equipment needed?  Have you worked with Peter Kennedy in Annapolis (PKYS)?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Kent and Iris
Kristy
SN 243


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