Date   

Re: A question to the hive mind re Amel 54 (Sleipner side power) Bow thruster capacitor please.

Scott SV Tengah
 

Porter, I replaced my Sidepower after the commutator cracked and it started eating brushes ($$$$$$).

Note that the Sleipner that Amel installed in my A54 (#69) has been superceded by another model. The solenoids are moved to the forward facing, referenced to your A54, side of the bowthruster. I am not sure if they updated the thermal sensor too. As an aside, if you ever need to replace your motor, you'll have to cut out a bit of the bow locker floor and also use some wood "shims" to push the bowthruster cover / stairs towards the front of the boat to accommodate the new solenoid location.

I've had a few outfits look at our NEW bowthruster because it was having intermittent issues. They cost me a lot of money and couldn't figure it out. Brad at IMTRA is generally quite helpful and their techs will give you step by step instructions. If you want to test yourself, try this: https://seatronic.no/productattachments/index/download?id=1080

You can bypass a lot of the sensors, including the thermal switch. That way, you at least isolate exactly what is wrong. FYI in our case, for the intermittently functioning NEW Sleipner, it turned out to be the tiniest bit of corrosion on the connectors between the big/long relay box and the solenoids. I'd suggest corrosion-x or silicone grease on those contacts.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 8:32 AM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mark. Thank you. 
Interestingly. The US contingent got back to me. They suggested the part was a heat sensor and sent a photo. The photo they sent was similar to what I have, but suffered in that it had an additional wire connection that then fed back to a relay. The part they showed me we do not have. 

I like safety features, however this scenario like engines, I’d rather ruin an engine saving the ship than ruin the ship saving an engine. 

I use the thruster when I can’t maneuver with the rudder and as sparingly as possible. 

There evidently is a sidepower outfit here in Tahiti. I’m going to ask them to have a look, if covid doesn’t stop us!  

Thanks again

Porter
A54-152



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Aug 23, 2020, at 5:08 AM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Very recently I had an opportunity to get familiar with our Sleipner bow thruster.  No such part was in the unit.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Volker, have you factored in the instalation cost of the new engine. This can be as high as the shelf price of the engine. 

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 23 August 2020 at 23:21 Volker <Puchta@...> wrote:

The Perkins M50 has run 4300 hours. It start still good on the first click, but creates some oil smoke and he oil consumption is at about 1 liter per 100 hours.
A complete rebuilt would cost about 50% of an brand new engine. Could be an option, but if you one day decide to sell the boat this would not benefit the selling price.

Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no 176


Re: A question to the hive mind re Amel 54 (Sleipner side power) Bow thruster capacitor please.

Porter McRoberts
 

Mark. Thank you. 
Interestingly. The US contingent got back to me. They suggested the part was a heat sensor and sent a photo. The photo they sent was similar to what I have, but suffered in that it had an additional wire connection that then fed back to a relay. The part they showed me we do not have. 

I like safety features, however this scenario like engines, I’d rather ruin an engine saving the ship than ruin the ship saving an engine. 

I use the thruster when I can’t maneuver with the rudder and as sparingly as possible. 

There evidently is a sidepower outfit here in Tahiti. I’m going to ask them to have a look, if covid doesn’t stop us!  

Thanks again

Porter
A54-152



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Aug 23, 2020, at 5:08 AM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Very recently I had an opportunity to get familiar with our Sleipner bow thruster.  No such part was in the unit.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Denis Foster
 

Besides the pollution compliance the main advantage of electronic common rail is that the engine runs better even if under loaded which is quite common with modern sailboats that are often « overpowered ». The mechanical injection pump is tuned for around 70-80% load. At the 20% 30% load it is usually feeding to much fuel with the risk of glazing. Some mechanics advise running at near maximum load every ten hours for around 30minutes. AKA « Italian tuning ».

Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Denis Foster
 

Hello,

I agree about the more robust system is mechanical injection found on old engines or still made for the non recreational market.

Besides the pollution compliance the main advantage is that the engine runs better even if under loaded which is quite common with modern sailboats that are often « overpowered ». The mechanical injection pump is tuned for around 70-80% load. At the 20% 30% load it is usually feeding to much fuel with the risk of glazing. Some mechanics advise running at near maximum load every ten hours for around 30minutes. AKA « Italian tuning ».

Modern common rail doesn’t need that apparently anymore.

These electronic diesel injectors can be all electronic or hydraulic electronically regulated. Both are sensible to lightning strike.

Once a mechanical diesel has started it only needs clean fuel and air to work. Very robust and reliable.



Denis



Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

 

I believe one answer could be that Amel is moving to off-the-shelf devices, rather than Amel-engineered devices for many things. The following is a list of such moves that I have noticed:
Amel Bow Thruster to Side-Power
Amel Genoa Furler to Bamar to Reckmann to ProFurl
Amel-assembled Main outhaul and furling motor assembled to a gearbox to a one-piece motor assembly
Amel-made freshwater level to off-the-shelf tank tenders
Amel-made breaker panels to off-the-shelf panels

I am sure the list is much longer. I believe it makes perfect sense. Many of these devices were not available for Amel to purchase when Amel decided to include them in their boats, or at the very least, what was available did not satisfy Captain Amel. Thus the Amel made and/or engineered devices. Today we have a different situation with what is available. Also, I assume that Amel realizes that the ethical liability to maintain and supply parts and replacements for in-house engineered, assembled, or made devices require a sizeable investment. Bottom Line is I totally understand Amel's movement to off-the-shelf devices and components.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 9:45 AM Denis Foster <deniswfoster@...> wrote:
What I meant is that Selden has had for many years a Mainsail hydraulic furling and outhaul in the boom.

And now they are selling a synchronised electric system for mainsail furling. I understood it uses load measuring to adapt the outhaul to the in mast furling.

Denis

Envoyé de mon iPhone



Re: A question to the hive mind re Amel 54 (Sleipner side power) Bow thruster capacitor please.

Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

Very recently I had an opportunity to get familiar with our Sleipner bow thruster.  No such part was in the unit.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Matt Salatino
 

We have a D.3  110 also. Our previous boat had a Yanmar without Turbo our common rail. It was every bit as smooth and quiet as our D3. Never had a sensor issue. Clean fuel is all it needed. 
To me, there are so many complex systems on out boats, the simpler any one component, the better. 
We like the D3 so far, but we’re only up to the 250 hour service interval. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 3:43 PM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Matt,

I'm not saying the mechanical injection is not preferable on a boat. But saying common rail was developed just to satisfy emission regulations is not true. It was obviously a added bonus that should be cared for if not for our children, but the efficiency, smoothness and power delivery of a modern common rail diesel is so much better then the classic stuff. Especially if you go into turbo-diesel territory.
So in a car its vastly preferably over the old technology. But I do agree, for a boat much less so. But keep in mind the following, there are still people that say a engine has no place on a sailing yacht and you should handle everything with your sails. I'm not one of them but my point is that what now is seen as normal used to be exotic and failure prone. Fact is that a huge number of boats use common rail now and it's not like they are all failing because of whatever.

My point is that when deciding for a new engine, look at the full package and decide on what you feel is important to you. I know there is one Yanmar engine where for many boats it is close to impossible to change the impeller as it sits on the other end of the engine. So if you are in the middle of wherever and need to change a failing impeller you will not be a happy camper. That does not make Yanmar a bad engine. They have a well deserved good reputation.

My own D3-110 has it flaws but I can't complain about the smoothness, efficiency and quietness of this engine. Thanks to being common rail.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Denis Foster
 

What I meant is that Selden has had for many years a Mainsail hydraulic furling and outhaul in the boom.

And now they are selling a synchronised electric system for mainsail furling. I understood it uses load measuring to adapt the outhaul to the in mast furling.

Denis

Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Output on SM

Thomas Peacock
 

Hi Alexander,

That looks like a proprietary (maybe Garmin?) receptacle for the main electrical supply for a chart plotter. If your chartplotter doesn’t plug into it, then it may be of no use. But you can always use the hole for another receptacle.

There must be wires coming out of the back. I would assume two of them are 12 volt power, maybe others go to a NMEA network. Have you checked where they go?

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

On Aug 23, 2020, at 9:39 AM, Alexander Schenk via groups.io <schenkschierloh=me.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hello,

Having purchased our SM last year and due to COVID-restrictions we are getting to know our boat better (and working on our extensive worklist) with every day we have the possibility to be on board.

I am currently looking fror to find out how to use a plotter or other electronic device in the cockpit.

I have found the following


Anybody any idea what this might be used for (plotter?, computer?)

I have already tried to contact the previous owner but to no avail so far.

Thankful for any idea.

Best
Alexander

SY Antinea
#231




<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg>
--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Denis,

Aha, so you are saying they are now using a hydraulic furling system for the main. Interesting as it seems the headsail furlers are still electric. I'm not sure if I like that added complexity.

Thanks for the info,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Matt,

I'm not saying the mechanical injection is not preferable on a boat. But saying common rail was developed just to satisfy emission regulations is not true. It was obviously a added bonus that should be cared for if not for our children, but the efficiency, smoothness and power delivery of a modern common rail diesel is so much better then the classic stuff. Especially if you go into turbo-diesel territory.
So in a car its vastly preferably over the old technology. But I do agree, for a boat much less so. But keep in mind the following, there are still people that say a engine has no place on a sailing yacht and you should handle everything with your sails. I'm not one of them but my point is that what now is seen as normal used to be exotic and failure prone. Fact is that a huge number of boats use common rail now and it's not like they are all failing because of whatever.

My point is that when deciding for a new engine, look at the full package and decide on what you feel is important to you. I know there is one Yanmar engine where for many boats it is close to impossible to change the impeller as it sits on the other end of the engine. So if you are in the middle of wherever and need to change a failing impeller you will not be a happy camper. That does not make Yanmar a bad engine. They have a well deserved good reputation.

My own D3-110 has it flaws but I can't complain about the smoothness, efficiency and quietness of this engine. Thanks to being common rail.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Output on SM

Alexander Schenk
 

Hello,

Having purchased our SM last year and due to COVID-restrictions we are getting to know our boat better (and working on our extensive worklist) with every day we have the possibility to be on board.

I am currently looking fror to find out how to use a plotter or other electronic device in the cockpit.

I have found the following


Anybody any idea what this might be used for (plotter?, computer?)

I have already tried to contact the previous owner but to no avail so far.

Thankful for any idea.

Best
Alexander

SY Antinea
#231


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Matt Salatino
 

Much of the expense is the labor involved, so the 50% component of the motor, isn’t so much. Also, you don’t rebuild everything. Some components will still be original. Are you going to rebuild the HP pump? The injectors? If so, the 50% difference declines...... given my life’s lessons with rebuild vs new, I’d go with new every time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Volker <Puchta@...> wrote:

The Perkins M50 has run 4300 hours. It start still good on the first click, but creates some oil smoke and he oil consumption is at about 1 liter per 100 hours.
A complete rebuilt would cost about 50% of an brand new engine. Could be an option, but if you one day decide to sell the boat this would not benefit the selling price.

Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no 176


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Volker
 

The Perkins M50 has run 4300 hours. It start still good on the first click, but creates some oil smoke and he oil consumption is at about 1 liter per 100 hours.
A complete rebuilt would cost about 50% of an brand new engine. Could be an option, but if you one day decide to sell the boat this would not benefit the selling price.

Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no 176


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He Matt

Thank you.
the hotel was a very helpful and very understandable answer!

Thanks Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Matt Salatino
 

Mechanical fuel injection is very reliable. It only needs clean fuel, and the lubricaring qualities of the fuel will keep the system happy for many years.
Commonrail fuel injection was developed to satisfy strict pollution requirements. The fuel is kept at high pressure behind all injectors (common rail) and the opening and closing of electronically controlled injectors is controlled by a computer. The computer can turn on and off the injectors rapidly, cycling the injectors multiple times during one combustion cycle. This allows the fuel to be burned to reduce pollution. 
Good on paper.
The problem arises if an electronic component, computer, injector, sensor, etc, fails. This requires an electronics tech to diagnose.
Also, and of most importance, a lightning strike can destroy the electronics, disabling the engine entirely. This can’t happen with mechanical fuel injection.
I was at the Annapolis Boat Show, admiring the Yanmar engines at their display. I asked a technician there what happens if the boat is struck by lightning. He replied that he just repaired a new engine that suffered a lightning strike. He replaced the computer, the injectors, and all sensors. The bill to the customer was $10,000.
A mechanically fuel injected engine would have no failure and subsequent repair bill.
Otherwise, no problems at all!😀

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:

Please one question .
What is the problem with the commonrail technik on a sail boat ?

Thanks Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet




Re: Re-power an Amel Sharki

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Please one question .
What is the problem with the commonrail technik on a sail boat ?

Thanks Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Denis Foster
 

Hello,

The Selden setup is like this or also a hydraulic in boom with a synchronised furling unfurling with The hydraulic in mast with only one button.

I think Selden has just released a synchronised Electrical version.

Regards

Denis
Ex Meltem #32


Envoyé de mon iPhone


Re: Furling main on Amel 60

Arno Luijten
 
Edited

Found this picture:



I'm intrigued by this. Why did they change the setup?

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

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