Date   

Re: Turbo question

Mark McGovern
 

The rust is normal and the pitting does not look terrible.  The exhaust housing is made from cast iron so it will start the rust the second you stop cleaning it unless you coat it with something. I wouldn't worry about it as it certainly is not the cause of your reduced maximum engine RPM.

As long as the turbocharger shaft spins freely (at least a little bit) and if there is not excessive "play" in the shaft if you grab it with two fingers and try to move it laterally back and forth, then the turbocharger is probably fine.  This assumes that the compressor wheel on other side of the turbocharger is OK.

What did it look like before it was cleaned?  If it looked like Delos' turbocharger completely filled with coked up crud (shown below) than it probably was the culprit:

 
Also, what does the exhaust elbow look like?


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Turbo question

Rob Hughes
 

I think i found the cause of the corrosion on the turbo. this is the picture of our old exhaust elbow. we had replaced I think sea water was spraying in onto the inside of the turbo housing 


Re: Turbo question

eric freedman
 

Rob,
while you have the Turbo off, You might paint it with automotive exhaust header paint.
Once it is heated up it cured and you will never have a rusty turbo.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite

On September 24, 2020 at 2:49 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Rob,

 

The most concerning part of this picture is the fan. The fan should be clean and you should be able to flick it with your fingertip and watch it spin. If it doesn’t spin freely, the problem with your lack of getting RPM is indeed the turbo. You are probably also blowing out smoke as you increase the RPM with a damaged turbo.

 

You have just found out how expensive turbos are for a marine engine. Save your old one and hunt for an automotive turbo repair shop during your travels. They are common. The chances are it can easily be rebuilt for not much money (under $200).

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob Hughes via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 12:10 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Turbo question

 



This is my 6 yr old turbo from Volvo tamd22 after being cleaned. I have a loss of rpm only able to get 2200. Is this rust color normal? I'm wondering about all the pitting. I have a new turbo on order. Just want to see if I have another issue that needs addressing. And if anyone has pictures of their turbo after cleaning could you share that please.


 

 


Re: Turbo question

Mark Erdos
 

Rob,

 

The most concerning part of this picture is the fan. The fan should be clean and you should be able to flick it with your fingertip and watch it spin. If it doesn’t spin freely, the problem with your lack of getting RPM is indeed the turbo. You are probably also blowing out smoke as you increase the RPM with a damaged turbo.

 

You have just found out how expensive turbos are for a marine engine. Save your old one and hunt for an automotive turbo repair shop during your travels. They are common. The chances are it can easily be rebuilt for not much money (under $200).

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob Hughes via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 12:10 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Turbo question

 



This is my 6 yr old turbo from Volvo tamd22 after being cleaned. I have a loss of rpm only able to get 2200. Is this rust color normal? I'm wondering about all the pitting. I have a new turbo on order. Just want to see if I have another issue that needs addressing. And if anyone has pictures of their turbo after cleaning could you share that please.


Looking for late model SM 2000

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

My wife and I are former SM owners who miss the life and our Amel.  We have been shopping for 50 foot plus boat for several months and nothing comes close to our Amel.  We're interested in late model SM 2000.  

Ben and Gayle Driver
formerly SM 2000 #347

 


Re: servicing mainsail fuller and outhaul

Scott SV Tengah
 

My "middle aged" A54 has the front cover that you guys reference. 

I drilled a few additional holes in the bottom of the rest of the cover. The original Amel setup has one small hole and when I opened up all of the covers to service the outhaul motor/gearbox, there was some water pooling.

I do believe that water can readily enter from the top near the shaft. Specifically if it runs down the outhaul rope track. When we give the boat a good freshwater wash, water definitely streams out of the holes I drilled.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Amel 54 alternator belts

ngtnewington Newington
 

HI Barry,

The trick is to buy an off the shelf small pulley. I think that Leece-Neville only do the one I bought, because I looked at the Pulley options on their website.  The shaft on the 175 A alternator is imperial 7/8 inch so you cannot just buy any old pulley, and they have a funny keyway. Anyhow they are easy to buy on eBay USA.

The small pulley nut can be undone with a ring spanner and an 8mm alan key that slots into the alternator shaft end. I cut off a section of alan key and slotted it into a ratchet handle as it requires considerable force to remove. Like 100 ft lbs!

The big pulley is easy to take off, just undo the four bolts and gently prise it off. It has a male flange/hub that sets into the crank pulley about 3mm.  If you actually have the small pulley to give to the machine shop it sure makes it easy to explain what you want. 

If you are going Lithium, you will clearly need a special regulator for the alternator with a heat sensor so it does not overheat, and you should maybe think about ducting cooling air directly at the alternator.

I wish I could  go back to the boat and fit it all and make sure it all works well. My original set up had two idler pulleys one top and one bottom. This improves the wrap, however the belt has a slack side and a tight side, and I was always told to only add the idler to the slack side, if possible. So I experimented with the old set up removing the idler on the tight side  ( bottom one), to no real improvement. My current view is that without any idler the wrap is 160 degrees, and with the top idler only, which is the slack side, it will be a bit better at say 170 degrees. These are both very good wraps.

How to decide on the pulley you need

I went about it by seeing what pulley Leece-Neville could supply. This pretty much nailed it as the biggest they had was the K section 8 rib one.

Then I looked at various websites that sell high output alternator kits and conversions and cribbed the Micro v belts that were used, and looked at the size of drive pulleys they used.

Many of these alternators are running very small pulleys like 50mm,  the drive pulleys are typically 150mm.

So they get the 3:1ratio from 150mm drive pulley and 50mm alt pulley.

We are much better off as the 230mm pulley machines down to 200mm, and we need 3:1 so 67mm would do it. The one I bought is 69mm max diameter but 63.5mm across the grooves. If making from new one could have 230mm drive pulley and a 75mm alt pulley. But that would be expensive and frankly unnecessary.

There are two forces to consider; We are think the small pulley as there is never a problem with the big one.

1. Belt wrap, i.e. friction. This is how much belt is in contact with the pulley. So the circumference of the pulley  x the proportion of the pulley wrap. So 160 degrees wrap is 160/360 x 2 x 3.14 x radius

2. then there is the lever effect which is also the radius. Imagine the belt being your arm and the radius being the length of the wrench, a short wrench needs a stronger arm.

3. then there is the width of the belt, i.e. number of ribs. 6,8, 10 or even 12.

Clearly by going for smaller pulleys you add load on the belt. Not only from less surface area in contact with the pulley but also the shorter turning moment.

Looking at these web sites they all use serpentine (micro v belts) and either 6, 8 or 10 ribbed belts. 

Having decided that we are in the right ball park, and seeing as Leece-Neville sell that pulley a their top one I was happy with the engineering choice.

Then I thought it would be interesting to calculate how many KW such a belt would support;

Now I am not 100% sure, so any engineer who knows better please correct me but

by the tables I think that the 8 rib belt should be able to run 8 X 0.41KW assuming 120 degree wrap and a belt tension of 10kg per rib on a 45mm pulley.

That is 3280 Watts with a belt tension of 80Kg. However we have better wrap so could add 40% = 4592 watts. 

This is 170A  at 27v for a 45mm pulley, but we are running a 63.5mm pulley so the radius is increased from 22.5 to 31.5 which is another 40%. Which works out to 238A at 27v.

So in conclusion we could reduce the belt tension slightly by experiment. You want it so that it does not slip at maximum output. I intend to watch the belt, run the engine at say 1500 rpm and engage the bow thruster. If it does not slip then, reduce the tension slightly until you get slip then tighten it a bit. I have a Kriket tension gauge. I reckon it will be at about 75kg. Which is pretty tight, but the belt gates specs about 100kg.

It has been a fun project.

Nick (in the UK)

Amelia AML 54-019 in Leros.




On 24 Sep 2020, at 14:18, Barry Connor via groups.io <connor_barry@...> wrote:




Begin forwarded message:

From: Barry Connor <connor_barry@...>
Date: September 24, 2020 at 09:14:24 AST
To: ngtnewington@...
Subject: Re:  Amel 54 alternator belts

Hi again Nick,
Just wanted to add.
In my project changing to Lithium with Oliver on “Vela Nautica” help and guidance I was going to disconnect the engine alternator from the charging system.
Thanks to you I will now add the engine alternator back into the system with a charge controller for the Lithium batteries.
I have added the pulley and belt you showed to my Ebay buy list. Just got to find a machine shop here in very expensive Le Marin to machine the engine pulley.
Thanks and Very Best Regards

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique



Amel 54 alternator belts

Barry Connor
 




Begin forwarded message:

From: Barry Connor <connor_barry@...>
Date: September 24, 2020 at 09:14:24 AST
To: ngtnewington@...
Subject: Re:  Amel 54 alternator belts

Hi again Nick,
Just wanted to add.
In my project changing to Lithium with Oliver on “Vela Nautica” help and guidance I was going to disconnect the engine alternator from the charging system.
Thanks to you I will now add the engine alternator back into the system with a charge controller for the Lithium batteries.
I have added the pulley and belt you showed to my Ebay buy list. Just got to find a machine shop here in very expensive Le Marin to machine the engine pulley.
Thanks and Very Best Regards

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique


Re: converting 24v alternator to ribbed micro v (serpentine)

Barry Connor
 

Thank you Nick,
This is excellent information.
Early 2019 I had my engine serviced at Marina de Ragusa in Sicily, the technicians told me the pulleys were wrong. I didn’t want to try and replace the pulleys with no engineering knowledge.
You have just solved the problem for all early 54 owners. Thank you again.
Very Best

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique 


On Sep 24, 2020, at 08:00, ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:


Hi fellow Amel owners.

 I have never been happy with the Leece-Neville 24v 175A alternator set up on Amelia presumably as supplied by Amel. 

Namely a double V belt pulley of 230mm diameter driving a 85mm diameter pulley on the alternator. These pulleys were supplied for B section belts, i.e. 17mm across the top. There was endless belt dust and short belt life. I checked the specs on B section belts and the minimum pulley diameter should be 112mm although it is possible to buy a cogged belt that can run on a minimum 91mm diameter pulley, however in general 112mm diameter is the smallest for B section belts. So this 85mm diameter pulley was wrong for such big belts.


I found on eBay Leece-Neville part number K176101466, priced $30. This is a K section 8 groove pulley with 63mm diameter.  The bore is 7/8 inch with keyway to fit the alternator. The pulley was new and unused.

Micro v belts can go round much smaller pulleys. I think for the K section it is a minimum of 45mm. So no problem going round a 63mm pulley.

I then took the original 230mm double groove pulley, that bolts to the Volvo crankshaft to my local machine shop in the UK who milled it down to match the Leece-Neville one I bought. He did a superb job for £60. 

Please see the photos of the big pulley that has been machined down from 230mm to 200mm.

So I calculate that I now have a pulley ratio of 3.14 whilst before it was 2.7. Thus at idle (725 rpm on the engine) the alternator now runs at 2300 rpm and will be charging nicely. Where as before in idle it was running at 1957 rpm. The alternator only kicks in at 2000 rpm. So in the boat manoeuvring situation we will now have proper charge, and we all know how much power the Bowthruster uses.

The alternator is rated for a maximum RPM of 8000. The Volvo D3 has maximum rpm of about 2700 so I calculate that the maximum engine rpm will have to be 2547.

Seeing as that is really thrashing the engine and I never run it it that level apart from the once a year blast out. I will put a small sticker at the helm saying Max RPM 2500.

Total cost in US$ including new Gates Fleetrunner belt about $125.

Obviously when I get back to the boat I will have to align the alternator, but note how now both pulley are exactly the same width. It will be much easier than before where one pulley was 47mm and the other 52mm. The machine shop supplied me with a few spacers, washers of different thickness, to help but I may well have to have a washer made  for the final alignment.

Nick (in the UK)

S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 in Leros Gr







<IMG_4059.jpeg>
<IMG_4060.jpeg>
<IMG_4061.jpeg>


converting 24v alternator to ribbed micro v (serpentine)

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi fellow Amel owners.

 I have never been happy with the Leece-Neville 24v 175A alternator set up on Amelia presumably as supplied by Amel. 

Namely a double V belt pulley of 230mm diameter driving a 85mm diameter pulley on the alternator. These pulleys were supplied for B section belts, i.e. 17mm across the top. There was endless belt dust and short belt life. I checked the specs on B section belts and the minimum pulley diameter should be 112mm although it is possible to buy a cogged belt that can run on a minimum 91mm diameter pulley, however in general 112mm diameter is the smallest for B section belts. So this 85mm diameter pulley was wrong for such big belts.


I found on eBay Leece-Neville part number K176101466, priced $30. This is a K section 8 groove pulley with 63mm diameter.  The bore is 7/8 inch with keyway to fit the alternator. The pulley was new and unused.

Micro v belts can go round much smaller pulleys. I think for the K section it is a minimum of 45mm. So no problem going round a 63mm pulley.

I then took the original 230mm double groove pulley, that bolts to the Volvo crankshaft to my local machine shop in the UK who milled it down to match the Leece-Neville one I bought. He did a superb job for £60. 

Please see the photos of the big pulley that has been machined down from 230mm to 200mm.

So I calculate that I now have a pulley ratio of 3.14 whilst before it was 2.7. Thus at idle (725 rpm on the engine) the alternator now runs at 2300 rpm and will be charging nicely. Where as before in idle it was running at 1957 rpm. The alternator only kicks in at 2000 rpm. So in the boat manoeuvring situation we will now have proper charge, and we all know how much power the Bowthruster uses.

The alternator is rated for a maximum RPM of 8000. The Volvo D3 has maximum rpm of about 2700 so I calculate that the maximum engine rpm will have to be 2547.

Seeing as that is really thrashing the engine and I never run it it that level apart from the once a year blast out. I will put a small sticker at the helm saying Max RPM 2500.

Total cost in US$ including new Gates Fleetrunner belt about $125.

Obviously when I get back to the boat I will have to align the alternator, but note how now both pulley are exactly the same width. It will be much easier than before where one pulley was 47mm and the other 52mm. The machine shop supplied me with a few spacers, washers of different thickness, to help but I may well have to have a washer made  for the final alignment.

Nick (in the UK)

S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 in Leros Gr









Re: Pasarelle / swim ladder SM

Mark Barter
 

The previous owner of Nunky replaced the boards with Flexi Teak and it looks great. I am back at the boat next week so I will take some photos of what he did. I will also measure it. 
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: Fuel Line

Mark Barter
 

Hi Mark,

It is the fuel line that runs from the fuel shut off valve along the side of the fuel tank to the first filter.

Thanks

--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: Turbo question

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

No i clean the Turbo make nwe seals and it works perfekt
Elja

SM Balu 222


Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Turbo question

Paul Osterberg
 

This is how mine is, just some corrosion at the valve, have decided to put it back and ser if it works now after cleaning, else buy a new one.
Paul on sykerpa SM 259 


Re: Pasarelle / swim ladder SM

Cathy & Guillaume
 

Hi Alan,

Here are a couple of pictures of ours, if it can help. The wheels were changed by me and are not original (couldn’t find them). Not on the boat at the moment, so cannot take dimensions. 

Guillaume 
Carpathia III - SM2K #293
Now in Athens


Re: Pasarelle / swim ladder SM

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Dave,
That would be great !
No rush, I'm not going anywhere for a while !
Look forward to the photos and drawing.
Cheers
Alan
ELYSE SM437


Re: Pasarelle / swim ladder SM

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Danny,
I'll let you know.
Alan


Re: After market engine mounts ? #replacement

Craig Briggs
 

The Amel "C" drive design presents a novel marine engine mount configuration, namely, there is absolutely no thrust component and the mounts are not fastened to the engine!

Conventional "factory spec" mounts for marine (propulsion) engines are designed to handle three components; vibration dampening, torsional resistance and mostly, a huge thrust resistance. Without the requirement for withstanding a thrust component, I would posit that "factory supplied" mounts are over specified for an Amel ("C" drive).

In fact, the "Amel way" (on "C" drive boats) does not even attach any "engine mounts" to the engine!  Instead the the engine is "hard bolted" to the frame carrying both the engine and "C" drive and the entire frame is connected to the hull with "engine mounts" (the "C" drive has it's own "engine mounts" to the frame). These "engine mounts" might more appropriately be called "vibration dampeners".  

So, for example, Yanmar "factory spec"  "engine mounts" are designed for four independent attachment points to the engine stringers to resist the full HP thrust of the propeller and handle torsion and vibration. On the Amel "C" drive, there are six "engine mounts" - four attachment points that are not independent with respect to the engine and two more for the "C" drive. Clearly a different engineering situation.

Just food for thought.  
Cheers, Craig  - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Turbo question

Rob Hughes
 

yes i have the tamd pb


Re: Turbo question

Alain Blanchard
 

Hello Rob

I remember this video about turbo. It might Help ... There are 4 videos  on the subject. 


Alain


Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 24 sept. 2020 à 02:59, Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> a écrit :

 Question??? Are you sure of the engine desig?  TMD22 is the usual engine , not the TAMD...

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, OPUA,NZ


On 24/09/2020, at 10:10 AM, Rob Hughes via groups.io <svluna01@...> wrote:


<Screenshot_20200923-170405.png>


This is my 6 yr old turbo from Volvo tamd22 after being cleaned. I have a loss of rpm only able to get 2200. Is this rust color normal? I'm wondering about all the pitting. I have a new turbo on order. Just want to see if I have another issue that needs addressing. And if anyone has pictures of their turbo after cleaning could you share that please.

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