Date   

K section belt power ratings for 24v alternator

ngtnewington Newington
 


Further to my note about converting from V belts to serpentine system on the Amel 54 and others.

I went on the Optibelt site and had a good look at the rating tables and the engineering section.

Very broadly, for 180 degree wrap and belt tension of 10 kg per rib and a small pulley of 63mm. There is a correction for less wrap but I did not do the calculation as it is minor for 160 degree wrap.

At 2000 rpm each rib can support 0.7kw, but it goes up with RPM so at 2300 it is about 0.8kw and at 6000 more like 2kw.

At 2000 rpm the alternator only just kicks in but 8 ribs could support 5.6 kw

At  2300 rpm it would be 6.4kw 

Seeing at the Leece-Neville maximum output is 175A at 24v which is 4.2kw  the the K section 8 rib is over engineered but in my book that is no bad thing.

I guess there is a small efficiency loss but I think that is only about 1%

I am delighted just in case I want to upgrade to an even more powerful alternator in the future. Maybe if I were to go Lithium for example.

The other thing is that Amel provided idler pulleys, top and bottom on my boat. The idlers are about 50mm diameter. The Optibelt site clearly states that if idlers are used they should be double the diameter of the small pulley or larger. They also state that if possible they should be only on the slack side and that they cause belt life to be shorter. To be fair the belt deflection was minor.  And I think they are talking about an idler with a lot of wrap. See photo.

Given the over engineering of the K section 8 rib belt I will probably do away with both the idlers.

My conclusion is that Amel got the engineering of the 24v 175A alternator all wrong on the early 54’s. It has taken me three years to figure this out, primarily because I assumed that Amel would have got it right. Especially as there were no problems with earlier Amels that had the same alternator. Some bright spark cocked up the pulley engineering.

Nick

S/Y Amelia Aml 54-019

Leros Gr.


Re: How to prime fresh water on an Amel 55, anyone?

Matt Salatino
 

It works, even if you fill from a bucket, but if pressurized water, remember to remove it, as it will keep the pressure switch turned off. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 28, 2020, at 11:06 AM, Billy Newport <billy@...> wrote:

Thats a good tip with the hose to re-pressurize/reprime also.


Re: How to prime fresh water on an Amel 55, anyone?

Billy Newport
 

Thats a good tip with the hose to re-pressurize/reprime also.


Re: How to prime fresh water on an Amel 55, anyone?

Billy Newport
 

John and Matt were correct.  Moving the switch on the d square reprimed the system.


Indicator lamp 24V panel

Arnold Mente
 

Hello Amelians,
 
does anyone know the diameter for the signal lights of pressurized water and bilge pump on the 24V panel of the SM?
 
Thanks for the help, I'm far away from the boat at the moment.
 
 
--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Re: Ankerwinde Amel euros

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Hallo Vallentin ,
Tut mir Leid aber da habe ich keine Fotos von , und da ich das Schiff nicht mehr habe kann ich auch keine Fotos machen .

Aber am Ende ist es doch relativ einfach , wenn du das Loch festgelegt hast damit die Kette in den läuft lässt du die Kette so lange reinlaufen bis sich ein haufen bildet und die Kette nicht mehr runterfällt .
Dann die Kette wieder raus und an dieser Stelle den Ball positionieren damit doe Kette auf den Ball läuft und wegen der Rundung des Balles sich besser verteilt und nich auf einer Stelle sich ein Haufen bildet

Ich hoffe das war verständlich
Für fragen jederzeit gerne

Grüße Elja


Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: generator pcb board

eric freedman
 

Jeff,
If you are busy UPS it to me.
When do you head to PR?
Will you be bust Oct 29- Nov 9?
Best Eric

On September 28, 2020 at 2:00 AM JEFFREY KRAUS <jmkraus@...> wrote:

Eric,
I'll bring my defective board to you
Jeff

 


Re: generator pcb board

JEFFREY KRAUS
 

Eric,
I'll bring my defective board to you
Jeff


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Stefan,

Actually the B&G version got some pretty bad press. I have no first hand experience so I cannot confirm.
If your plotter supports video-in you could consider this one: https://echopilot.com/products/fls-platinum-engine/

This company has been working on this stuff for quite some time and what I've seen they get pretty decent reviews.

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: How to prime fresh water on an Amel 55, anyone?

Matt Salatino
 

Yes, 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2020, at 10:41 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Do yo add water?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 9:03 PM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill, my fw pump isn’t self priming. It’s easy to prime, but needs help if the lines go empty.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2020, at 9:57 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

The switch on the side of the Square D pressure switch is to turn ON the pump motor when circumstances prohibit the motor from turning on. I do not see who this will help in priming. The OEM pump on the 50 and 55 are self-priming. To prime turn, the pump ON at the DC panel and open the galley tap. It might take a few minutes.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 6:14 PM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If it’s anything like our 50, there is a lever on the pressure switch plumbed into the fresh water pump. Turn the breaker on, then lift the lever. The pump should start. This might or might not prime the system. If it does, fine. If not, put a hose from the dock into the hose outlet. We have one in the cockpit and by the bow locker for the anchor wash. This will pressurize the system. Then you’re back in business. As soon as the system is pressurized, remove the dock hose. Things should now work.
Don’t ask now I know this....:-)

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Billy Newport <billy@...> wrote:

We turned off the fresh water pump from the DC panel and let a tap run which lowered the water pressure to 0 before doing some plumbing work today. I expected that when I turned back on the fresh water pump breaker, the pump would repressurize the circuit but turning on the breaker didn't do anything. The fresh water pump isn't starting.

How do I get the fresh water system going again? The Amel manual has very little if nothing about it or at least than I can find.

Any help apprec,
Billy

Amel 55#56


Anyone know who owns Triton?

Rob Hughes
 

I'm trying to find out who the owner of Triton is. the boats is here in Grenada. Where in the Same Marina and I have a few questions thanks.


Re: How to prime fresh water on an Amel 55, anyone?

 

Do yo add water?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 9:03 PM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill, my fw pump isn’t self priming. It’s easy to prime, but needs help if the lines go empty.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2020, at 9:57 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

The switch on the side of the Square D pressure switch is to turn ON the pump motor when circumstances prohibit the motor from turning on. I do not see who this will help in priming. The OEM pump on the 50 and 55 are self-priming. To prime turn, the pump ON at the DC panel and open the galley tap. It might take a few minutes.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 6:14 PM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If it’s anything like our 50, there is a lever on the pressure switch plumbed into the fresh water pump. Turn the breaker on, then lift the lever. The pump should start. This might or might not prime the system. If it does, fine. If not, put a hose from the dock into the hose outlet. We have one in the cockpit and by the bow locker for the anchor wash. This will pressurize the system. Then you’re back in business. As soon as the system is pressurized, remove the dock hose. Things should now work.
Don’t ask now I know this....:-)

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Billy Newport <billy@...> wrote:

We turned off the fresh water pump from the DC panel and let a tap run which lowered the water pressure to 0 before doing some plumbing work today. I expected that when I turned back on the fresh water pump breaker, the pump would repressurize the circuit but turning on the breaker didn't do anything. The fresh water pump isn't starting.

How do I get the fresh water system going again? The Amel manual has very little if nothing about it or at least than I can find.

Any help apprec,
Billy

Amel 55#56


Re: generator pcb board

eric freedman
 

Bill,
Do you recall the mans first name? Was he from Holland? Sending a package to and from Colombia can cost over $200- A customs broker is also needed. If someone ships a board to me I will l include it in my next shipment the shipping costs will be nominal and the customs broker charge will be covered in my carnet. The board will also get to the repairman. It will be shipped to my office/apartment in Bogota.
Eric

On September 27, 2020 at 9:47 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Eric,

Great idea. I met a guy in Cartagena who did the same thing. 

Someone has got to have an old board that would send it to an address for you.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 6:52 PM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
I have a friend in Bogota that repairs expensive circuit boards. Mostly for mining and the oil business.
I asked him how he gets the schematics. He replied with the cheap labor in Colombia ($1.00 an hour)
he just has his technicians test every component on the board.
I would love to send him a defective board and see what he can do with it.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376

On September 26, 2020 at 7:31 PM rossirossix4 <rossidesigngroup@...> wrote:

Just a related comment...seems these boards fail alot....my MDKAV has this expensive board as well.  There has been at least one posting claiming that heat "melts" these boards.  When I run the generator and (almost always make water at the same time) I leave the engine room open (we are always at anchor or mooring ball so the noise to others is minimal).  That extractor fan is pretty feeble and I think the Dessalator motor likes to be cool as well.  Might make a difference.  My engine room has a 220V outlet mounted up high on the forward bulkhead and I have a 220 fan that is aimed at the Dessalator high pressure pump and in the general vacinity of the battery chargers.  Since this fan works anytime we are on shorepower or when the generator is producing 220 it might help.  Maybe I need to point another one at the generator control board area.  These portable plastic fans are cheap and also help when you are working in the engine room--can be run off the inverter or on shore power in those situations.

To ramble on a little more....a while back I wrote Fight Systems, Inc. that makes more reasonably priced replacement control boards for Onans and asked them if they could offer a board for MDKAVs and received the following reply"
Hi Bob, 

Thank you for reaching out to us. We consider many factors where looking at possible aftermarket replacement projects. The engineering process takes 6-8 months and costs well over $30,000, so we have to be sure a market exists that will allow for us to recover expenses in a reasonable amount of time. There are several drawbacks to designing a replacement for the 327-1533, the first is the customer case that the board rests in. That case will require an up front tooling cost of about $15,000 if we were to commission a plastic injection mold. That would be in addition to the $30,000 engineering investment. Unfortunately, at this time I am not confident we would be able to recoup our investment within a one year period based on the number of generators In the market that use this control. I wish it were as simple as snapping my fingers and having a replacement available. 

Regards,

Anthony Misiti
COO
Flight Systems
Maybe we could entice them with a pre purchase of a hundred or more.....seems like carrying a spare control board is a good idea.  Their boards run in the $250 to $300 range.

Bob and Suzanne Rossi, KAIMI SM 429

 


 


Re: How to prime fresh water on an Amel 55, anyone?

Matt Salatino
 

Bill, my fw pump isn’t self priming. It’s easy to prime, but needs help if the lines go empty.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2020, at 9:57 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

The switch on the side of the Square D pressure switch is to turn ON the pump motor when circumstances prohibit the motor from turning on. I do not see who this will help in priming. The OEM pump on the 50 and 55 are self-priming. To prime turn, the pump ON at the DC panel and open the galley tap. It might take a few minutes.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 6:14 PM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If it’s anything like our 50, there is a lever on the pressure switch plumbed into the fresh water pump. Turn the breaker on, then lift the lever. The pump should start. This might or might not prime the system. If it does, fine. If not, put a hose from the dock into the hose outlet. We have one in the cockpit and by the bow locker for the anchor wash. This will pressurize the system. Then you’re back in business. As soon as the system is pressurized, remove the dock hose. Things should now work.
Don’t ask now I know this....:-)

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Billy Newport <billy@...> wrote:

We turned off the fresh water pump from the DC panel and let a tap run which lowered the water pressure to 0 before doing some plumbing work today. I expected that when I turned back on the fresh water pump breaker, the pump would repressurize the circuit but turning on the breaker didn't do anything. The fresh water pump isn't starting.

How do I get the fresh water system going again? The Amel manual has very little if nothing about it or at least than I can find.

Any help apprec,
Billy

Amel 55#56


Re: How to prime fresh water on an Amel 55, anyone?

 

Yes, but if the pump is running, there is no need to move the over-ride switch on the side of the Square D pressure switch.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 6:18 PM John Clanton <jclanton@...> wrote:

Billy,

 

On the output side of the pump (where the pipes come in and go out), there is a pressure switch which turns the pump on and off as the pressure dictates.  When the pressure goes down to zero, there is a safety function on the pressure switch which keeps it off.  I am not on the boat now and so cannot provide photos, but have experienced what you are talking about.

 

The pressure switch mechanism is a grey plastic box about 3” by 3” by 3”, and has the Square D (manufacturer) logo on the top.  On the right side, of the pressure switch mechanism, towards the base of it, is a small chrome/stainless steel round rod/lever that when pulled up, will manually start the pressure pump, and after a moment or two, it will maintain the pressure normally.

 

Specific instructions (from memory) are:

  • Be sure all the water taps are closed.
  • Turn the 24v water pump breaker on (you won’t see a light illuminated until the pump actually turns on).
  • Go down into the engine room and put your hand on the right side of the grey Square D pressure switch.  With a flashlight, you can probably look at the lower right side of the pressure switch and see the chrome lever.
  • Pull the lever up, it only needs to move a half inch or so, and the pump should engage.
  • On my boat, there is a pressure gauge on the top of the pump that shows the pressure in the freshwater circuit downstream of the pressure pump.
  • If you hold the lever up for 5 -10 seconds, the system should engage normally without you needing to keep holding the lever.

 

This is all that should be required to get the system back into “normal” mode.  Both the pump and the pressure switch are very reliable, and shouldn’t need to be adjusted or rebuilt for 10+ years.

 

That being said, anytime the system is drained/relieved of pressure, the manual lever will have to be engaged to get the pump re-engaged.

 

Best of luck.

 

 

John W. Clanton

S/V Devereux, A55, No. 65

Currently in Antibes, France

 

 



Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited.


Re: How to prime fresh water on an Amel 55, anyone?

 

The switch on the side of the Square D pressure switch is to turn ON the pump motor when circumstances prohibit the motor from turning on. I do not see who this will help in priming. The OEM pump on the 50 and 55 are self-priming. To prime turn, the pump ON at the DC panel and open the galley tap. It might take a few minutes.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 6:14 PM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If it’s anything like our 50, there is a lever on the pressure switch plumbed into the fresh water pump. Turn the breaker on, then lift the lever. The pump should start. This might or might not prime the system. If it does, fine. If not, put a hose from the dock into the hose outlet. We have one in the cockpit and by the bow locker for the anchor wash. This will pressurize the system. Then you’re back in business. As soon as the system is pressurized, remove the dock hose. Things should now work.
Don’t ask now I know this....:-)

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Billy Newport <billy@...> wrote:

We turned off the fresh water pump from the DC panel and let a tap run which lowered the water pressure to 0 before doing some plumbing work today. I expected that when I turned back on the fresh water pump breaker, the pump would repressurize the circuit but turning on the breaker didn't do anything. The fresh water pump isn't starting.

How do I get the fresh water system going again? The Amel manual has very little if nothing about it or at least than I can find.

Any help apprec,
Billy

Amel 55#56


Re: Volvo 24v alternator exciter

 

There is a relay that uses the start engine 12v circuit to close the other side of the relay which is supplied with 24 volts. That is how the "excite circuit" works for the 24-volt alternator on all model Amels that I am familiar with that have 24-volt banks and alternators. Here are a few photos:
image.png
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 1:57 PM Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
24 V alternator recently requires higher RPM before producing voltage. Any suggestions about where to start troubleshooting? Exciter circuitry? Thanks!
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM240






Re: Ankerwinde Amel euros

Aquarius 136 <v@...>
 

Lieber Elja,

Vielen Dank für Nachricht, das macht mich um einiges schlauer. Große Hilfe!

Ich habe noch eine andere Euros Ankerwinsch Konstruktion geschickt bekommen und bei denen fällt die Kette in das Vorschiff compartment was unter den 2 Kästen liegt. Dann kann u.U. natürlich Wasser an der Ankerkette entlang bis zur Bilge fließen.

Die Lösung wie Du sie beschreibst mit Ball im abgeschlossenen Ankerkasten hört sich für mich ein wenig sicherer an.

Wenn Du mir davon noch ein oder zwei Fotos schicken könntest, wenn auch immer möglich, wäre es toll.

Viele Gruesse
Valentin


Re: generator pcb board

 

Eric,

Great idea. I met a guy in Cartagena who did the same thing. 

Someone has got to have an old board that would send it to an address for you.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 6:52 PM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
I have a friend in Bogota that repairs expensive circuit boards. Mostly for mining and the oil business.
I asked him how he gets the schematics. He replied with the cheap labor in Colombia ($1.00 an hour)
he just has his technicians test every component on the board.
I would love to send him a defective board and see what he can do with it.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376

On September 26, 2020 at 7:31 PM rossirossix4 <rossidesigngroup@...> wrote:

Just a related comment...seems these boards fail alot....my MDKAV has this expensive board as well.  There has been at least one posting claiming that heat "melts" these boards.  When I run the generator and (almost always make water at the same time) I leave the engine room open (we are always at anchor or mooring ball so the noise to others is minimal).  That extractor fan is pretty feeble and I think the Dessalator motor likes to be cool as well.  Might make a difference.  My engine room has a 220V outlet mounted up high on the forward bulkhead and I have a 220 fan that is aimed at the Dessalator high pressure pump and in the general vacinity of the battery chargers.  Since this fan works anytime we are on shorepower or when the generator is producing 220 it might help.  Maybe I need to point another one at the generator control board area.  These portable plastic fans are cheap and also help when you are working in the engine room--can be run off the inverter or on shore power in those situations.

To ramble on a little more....a while back I wrote Fight Systems, Inc. that makes more reasonably priced replacement control boards for Onans and asked them if they could offer a board for MDKAVs and received the following reply"
Hi Bob, 

Thank you for reaching out to us. We consider many factors where looking at possible aftermarket replacement projects. The engineering process takes 6-8 months and costs well over $30,000, so we have to be sure a market exists that will allow for us to recover expenses in a reasonable amount of time. There are several drawbacks to designing a replacement for the 327-1533, the first is the customer case that the board rests in. That case will require an up front tooling cost of about $15,000 if we were to commission a plastic injection mold. That would be in addition to the $30,000 engineering investment. Unfortunately, at this time I am not confident we would be able to recoup our investment within a one year period based on the number of generators In the market that use this control. I wish it were as simple as snapping my fingers and having a replacement available. 

Regards,

Anthony Misiti
COO
Flight Systems
Maybe we could entice them with a pre purchase of a hundred or more.....seems like carrying a spare control board is a good idea.  Their boards run in the $250 to $300 range.

Bob and Suzanne Rossi, KAIMI SM 429

 


Re: How to prime fresh water on an Amel 55, anyone?

John Clanton
 

Billy,

 

On the output side of the pump (where the pipes come in and go out), there is a pressure switch which turns the pump on and off as the pressure dictates.  When the pressure goes down to zero, there is a safety function on the pressure switch which keeps it off.  I am not on the boat now and so cannot provide photos, but have experienced what you are talking about.

 

The pressure switch mechanism is a grey plastic box about 3” by 3” by 3”, and has the Square D (manufacturer) logo on the top.  On the right side, of the pressure switch mechanism, towards the base of it, is a small chrome/stainless steel round rod/lever that when pulled up, will manually start the pressure pump, and after a moment or two, it will maintain the pressure normally.

 

Specific instructions (from memory) are:

  • Be sure all the water taps are closed.
  • Turn the 24v water pump breaker on (you won’t see a light illuminated until the pump actually turns on).
  • Go down into the engine room and put your hand on the right side of the grey Square D pressure switch.  With a flashlight, you can probably look at the lower right side of the pressure switch and see the chrome lever.
  • Pull the lever up, it only needs to move a half inch or so, and the pump should engage.
  • On my boat, there is a pressure gauge on the top of the pump that shows the pressure in the freshwater circuit downstream of the pressure pump.
  • If you hold the lever up for 5 -10 seconds, the system should engage normally without you needing to keep holding the lever.

 

This is all that should be required to get the system back into “normal” mode.  Both the pump and the pressure switch are very reliable, and shouldn’t need to be adjusted or rebuilt for 10+ years.

 

That being said, anytime the system is drained/relieved of pressure, the manual lever will have to be engaged to get the pump re-engaged.

 

Best of luck.

 

 

John W. Clanton

S/V Devereux, A55, No. 65

Currently in Antibes, France

 

 



Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited.

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