Date   

Re: VP TMD 22 muffler

Ryan Meador
 

We just went through this replacement process a few months ago.  If you're willing to spend the money, probably the best option is to have a new one fabricated in metal or fiberglass so you can continue to use it as a step.  I wasn't able to find anything off the shelf that would work for that, and in the interests of time and money, we went with a Vetus.  Specifically, we ordered a model LSG75 and then added the SET0004 connection (because the two connections are different sizes on our boat, but the mufflers all come with the same size on both ends).  I think one could just as easily order an LSG90 with a SET0003 and swap the connections as appropriate, but Defender has the former combination in stock and doesn't stock the latter.

It was a real pain to get the exhaust hose to bend in such a way that it will connect to the muffler, but with a little application of heat and a lot of choice words, we got it in.  I was initially concerned about the strain the hose continuously applies to the muffler, but it seems fine.  We replaced the exhaust mixing elbow at the same time with a stainless one so that we hopefully never have to touch this system again.  It is hard to retrain your muscle memory to avoid stepping on the muffler!

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Salem, MA, USA


On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 12:51 PM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill
We are preparing Kerpa for Our next trip which is planned to go to The Amazon then slowly north to Trinidad for Lay-up, but after that we plan/hope (Covid19 allow  to spend a few years in the Pacifics so probably better to replace it now when I have time. Is Vetus the best Option for a Muffler? 
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


Re: LiFePO4 Conversion on sv BeBe - SM#387

Dan Carlson
 

Hello Stephan, attached is a photo from the underside of the arch, with the new panels.  

I had some one cut some 25mm (1") by 35mm (1.5") by 10cm spacer blocks from teak. These raise the new panels to the top of the existing frame. I kept the back and sides of the new panels within the edges of the existing frame but the front edge of the panels over hangs. I still have plenty of room between the front to the solar panels and the backstays.

I through bolted the new panels through the blocks and the flange on the frame. 

Best regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 8:52 AM Stephen Davis <flyboyscd@...> wrote:

Hi Dan,

Congratulations on your recent LIFePO4 upgrade. We just spent months going through Alaska with a slowly failing lead acid battery bank, and have also decided to upgrade now that we are in Washington State for the winter. In our case, we were fortunate to have all modern programmable charging sources which will be compatabible with the 8 Battleborn 24v batteries which are arriving tomorrow. We have a much older SM, and will take this opportunity to re-wire most of the older heavy gauge wiring, and clean up the old mess a little bit. 


We are also planning to increase our solar capacity as well, and that brings up a question I’m hoping you can answer. We have the same Emek arch which is installed on BeBe, and I was wondering how you modified the top frame of the arch to accommodate the larger panel size? Any information you can provide on that subject would be greatly appreciated. 


Regards,
Steve Davis
Aloha, SM 72
Port Townsend, WA


Re: Fusion Marine Stereo (24 volt?)

Ryan Meador
 

The Fusion stereos (and presumably other brands of actual marine stereos) have two major advantages of car stereos: 1) they use class D amplifiers, which use significantly less power compared to class A/B/AB usually found in car stereos, and 2) they have multi-zone audio support.  You can fake the multi-zone thing with the front/rear fader adjustment of a car stereo, but it's clunky and causes the volume on both sets of speakers to change, so you're constantly adjusting to get it right.  True multi-zone means independent volume control, and you can even mount a remote control panel.  Some support 3+ zones, so you could add speakers to every cabin if you so desired.  I had one of these on my previous boat and I really liked it.

If you find a 24V marine stereo, please let me know.  I've been looking for one ever since I bought my SM and haven't been able to find any.  It would be fantastic to remove the power loss of the converter, and also be able to listen to the stereo without powering up the instruments.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Salem, MA, USA


On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 1:50 PM Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:
For more pover in the speakers and in the Beach i take 

B&O Beolith 


This is a serpiced moment when you here this saund 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: C-Drive drain plug o-ring

Mark McGovern
 

Oops.  I replied with the drain plug size/thread pitch. Unfortunately, I don't have any record of the o-ring size. 

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: LiFePO4 Conversion on sv BeBe - SM#387

Matt & Michelle Day
 

Dan,

In addition to Steve's question above, I am hoping you can provide a couple of further insights into your design process.

What drove your decision in using prismatic cells verses off-the-shelf size 31 batteries (i.e. Battle Born batteries)?  Cost?  Flexibility?  

Did the time trade to assemble the prismatic cells payoff in your cost trade?

Many thanks!

Matt


Re: C-Drive drain plug o-ring

Mark McGovern
 

Ian,

I'm 99% sure it's M20 x 2.5 thread pitch.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


C-Drive drain plug o-ring

Ian Townsend
 
Edited

Does anyone know the size of the SM c-drive drain plug o-ring?


Ian
SM153
Loca Lola II


Re: LiFePO4 Conversion on sv BeBe - SM#387

Stephen Davis
 

Hi Dan,

Congratulations on your recent LIFePO4 upgrade. We just spent months going through Alaska with a slowly failing lead acid battery bank, and have also decided to upgrade now that we are in Washington State for the winter. In our case, we were fortunate to have all modern programmable charging sources which will be compatabible with the 8 Battleborn 24v batteries which are arriving tomorrow. We have a much older SM, and will take this opportunity to re-wire most of the older heavy gauge wiring, and clean up the old mess a little bit. 


We are also planning to increase our solar capacity as well, and that brings up a question I’m hoping you can answer. We have the same Emek arch which is installed on BeBe, and I was wondering how you modified the top frame of the arch to accommodate the larger panel size? Any information you can provide on that subject would be greatly appreciated. 


Regards,
Steve Davis
Aloha, SM 72
Port Townsend, WA


Re: Valsat 03 dimesions

michael winand
 

We have a 7 inch raymarine axiom. A 9 inch would also fit. We used a cover plate. Of 250mm by 160mm

 Michael  Nebo sm251


On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 10:29 am, Slavko D.
<slavko@...> wrote:
Hello,

as I can not go to the boat in next weeks (corona lockdown in Slovenia) I would like to ask if anyone have the dimension of GPS Valsat03 that I will replace with chartplotter.

Thank you.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279


Re: LiFePO4 Conversion on sv BeBe - SM#387

hanspeter baettig
 

Hello Daniel
many thank for your calculation sheet. If I calculated right; without shipment, without you new solarpaels; the cost for your LiFePO4 project was 7154 US$, without your personal labor. Is this is this correct ?
This is quite expensive if I calculate the new Onan Genset MDKDL for 9500 € without installation I installed last October by Pochon, via Didie in Le Marin, Marinique. I run the Gen every 2nd day for about 1-2 hours, depending the Peak Watt I get from my Solar like you had 450 Peak Watt.
My question and also quit some European Amel Owners ; what was your personal motivation to change to LiFePO4 ?
PS you have a very good SM from the old Owners of BeBe we now him :-)
hope to see you once and would like you to welcome you both on a old SM in damn good shape
Greetings
Hanspeter
SM16, Tamango 2
Bequia

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Sonntag, 18. Okt, 2020 um 23:52, Dan Carlson schrieb:

Hello Hanspeter,
As I purchased things over a period of time from multiple sources I never kept a complete tally.  But here are the main components listed (in USD):
1) Batteries from Electric car parts were $108 ea for the first 24 and $115 for the second 8. The first batch was shipped to Panama (with other items) for $300+? The second shipment in the USA was $140
2) Orion Jr2 BMS was $562 and I was able to pick it up from the manufacturer in Chicago area.
3) Wakespeed 500 alternator controller was $490, 
4) Sterling alternator protection device was $90
5) Victron items: Multi+ inverter/charger $1300, BMV712 monitor$200, Venus GX monitor $300.  
6) assorted relays, fuses,buss bars, cables, wires ... + $700?
7) New solar panels and MPPT added this year were $800 for the panels w/shipping, and $325 for the MPPT.

Clearly the cost can vary greatly based in where you are located.  I was able to source very effectively from the US and carry most items with me to Panama last year the rest was arranged through one shipment through Marine Warehouse. And this year's expansion was also easy to source as the boat was in Maryland. 

I do have the original 3 solar panels with 405 watts of capacity and the matching Victron Blue Solar MPPT for sail and can deliver them I. The Caribbean later this season :-) 

Best regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387
Currently in the Chesepeake Bay




On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 10:19 AM hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:
Hi Dan
very interesting information about you LiFeP04 Project. Will use it when I change to LiFeP.
Question:
How much was the total cost of this project. Without your personal work.
I hope you don‘t mind asking that.
Best regards
Hanspeter
SM 16, Tamango 2
St.Vincent & Grenadines without Covid 19

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Samstag, 17. Okt, 2020 um 21:19, Dan Carlson schrieb:

Here is a bit of summary of the LiFePO4 battery conversion that we have been through on BeBe over the last year.    I’ll start off with a bit about ourselves as context for some of our decisions. Then describe the key components and results. 

 

Lori and I have owned BeBe for 4 years now and have sailed 7 months each winter in the Caribbean. We have primarily lived on 24v/12v power with minimal use of the previous 1800w inverter.  I’ve recorded a lot of stats as we have sailed to understand how we use things and what we need.   We typically use ~120-140AH per day at anchor and ~240AH per day underway (We’ve logged about 24 overnight sails in our four years on BeBe).  BeBe has the Yanmar 100hp main engine w/ 175amp Leece Nevile alternator, 7kw Onan genset and 160LPH 230v Dessalator water maker.  BeBe came to us with 405watts of solar on an arch. We just replaced the three existing panels with 2 LG NeON 2 panels with 345watts each (total of 690watts).   We sailed the first three years with 630AH of DECA lead acid batteries and we limped into Shelter Bay Panama at the end of season three with 3 batteries with internal shorts and the rest with greatly reduced capacity.  We ran the genset every day and twice when it was cloudy.   I was suffering from severe energy insecurity!

 

My philosophy errs towards DIY so that I know my boat systems well.  And I have a background in science/technology with lots of technical problem solving, as well as a long history of home, auto and boat projects.   But this was one of the biggest,  most complex, and daunting for me.

 

We took the approach to build an LiFePO4 system based on Prismatic cells, built into a ‘battery,’  governed by a BMS (battery management system).

  1. Our new batteries are Fortune 100AH cells in a coated aluminum case, purchased from Electric Car Parts Co.  I started 2020 with 24 cells in a 3P8S configuration (3 cells of 3.2v ea in parallel and 8 of these sets of 3 in series) for nominal 24v and 300AH.  This fall I added 8 more cells and reconfigured to 4P8S with 400AH capacity.   The height of the Fortune 100 is 305mm (12in) which is a couple of MM taller than the lip of the battery box so the lid securely holds the batteries in place.  I made custom buss bars with 1”x1/8” copper bar, and I reused the buss bars from the previous configuration to double the thickness bridging across the cell groups. (way more than adequate)
  2. I chose the ORION Jr2 BMS as it appeared to have the most capability and configurability for an application like mine.  It turns out that the amount of configurability was initially very daunting.  I know that you could get away with a lot less, but I still don’t know what capability I would want to give up or that I might want to take better advantage of in the future.   They do have good instructions to get started and have provided me with the support when needed.  But that are not geared up for end  users.  I can talk more on this in a separate thread if there is interest.
  3. Charging system changes:
    1. I replaced the original Dolphin 100A charger with a Victron Multi+ 3000/70/16/230-24v inverter/charger. The existing cables for the 100A Dolphin are barely sufficient.  Due to the heat concern in the engine room and the cable size I have limited the charging output to 60A charging. I think that the heaviest use and most likely failure mode to the unit will be due to charging usage and although the unit has cooling fans and protection circuits to limit output based on heat, I prefer to err on the safe side. We have not come near taxing the limits of the inverter.
    2. I have kept the original Dolphin 30A charger as emergency/supplement.  I only use it for short periods when charging with the generator to supplement the Victron charging. I plan to replace this soon with a similar size LiFPO configured charger.
    3. BeBe has the Leece Nevile 175A large body alternator.  I added a WakeSpeed 500 alternator controller, which I highly recommend.  I also added an Sterling Alternator Protection Device.  The WS500 is derated to 75% output and additionally has a temperature sensors on the alternator body which could derate further.  It pulls a little over 100 amps when running at 1500 rpm or above.  The highest operating temperature I have measured on the alternator is 165F.  One feature that I really like is a hard switch with sets the alternator at the ‘float’ voltage of 26.72v.  This really reduces the charging output and limits any risk of over charging.   I only flip the switch to ‘Charge’ mode when I am paying attention to what is going on when motoring. 

                                                               i.      Installation note:  Both the Victron Multi+ and the WS500 need information from the battery shunt.  I ran a 4-wire run from the shunt behind the battery box to the engine room to provide voltage and current information to the WS500 and voltage info to the Multi+.  

    1. The solar (pv) panels are controlled by a Victron Smart Solar 100/50 MPPT.  I had to upgrade the MPPT for the new larger (higher voltage) panels.  There is a fuse between the solar panels and the battery buss, and there is also a new 40amp Solid State DC relay between the solar panels and the MPPT that would allow the battery BMS to cut the solar charging if needed to prevent over charging of the batteries.
  1. System Monitoring and Control
    1. I replaced the Link10 battery monitor with a Victron BMV712 (Bluetooth enabled battery monitor)  Mounted on the 24v panel in existing hole.
    2. I added a Victron Venus GX monitor mounted on the bulkhead in the cabinet above the sink (to starboard of autopilot computer).  The Venus GX does not have a screen (Lori said no more displays in her galley!).  But everything is accessible via wifi from any of our laptops, iPads, mobile phones.  In addition it can be connected thru wifi to the external Victron VRM Portal to monitor your boat remotely.   I set this up over the summer with a wifi hotspot, but unfortunately halfway through the summer something consumed all of the data on the hotspot and my visibility went dark.    The Venus GX has wired communications from the MPPT, BMV and the Multi+.  I use it to remotely turn the Multi+ Inverter/Charger on and off.     I generally check the BMV or SmartSolar MPPT directly with the Bluetooth connection vs going through the Venus GX.   There is also the capability to establish a CanBUS network that includes the battery BMS and the WS500 alternator controller but I have not really explored the why and how to approach this yet.
  2. Other Bits of Kit:
    1. Contactors/Relays – Contrary to it’s name the BMS (battery management system) does not control your battery charging.  You primarily control that through the battery charging profiles that you set up in your battery chargers, solar MPPT and alternator regulator.  The BMS protects your battery system from over-charging or discharging, that can send signals to charging devices or activate relays to disconnect the charge or discharge sources when limits are reached.  This requires a large contactor/relay on the main battery.  I used a TYCO Kilovac EV200 500+amp 12-900v contactor.  This is a big chunk and consumes about 2AH per day.  Normally you would have one on the charge circuit and one on the discharge circuit but the Victron Multi+ confounds this (one set of wires for both charge and discharge), so I just use two small solid state relays SSR-25DD to relay the signal from the BMS to the main contactor.   I also installed an HB Controls HBC-D1D40A solid state DC relay on the positive cable from the solar panels to the MPPT to handle the Charge control from the BMS. The HB relay has a substantial heat sink to dissipate any heat generated by the load when there is a steady 70+v @ 10amp current flowing under full sun.
    2. Fuses – I added a very large fuse on the main battery for protection.   From BlueSea I selected the POWR-GARD JLLN 400A-P.   This is a 400A Class T fuse.  I would not use less than a CLASS T fuse on the battery.  And make sure your supplier provides you with the ‘time-current’ performance curves on the fuse.  The Amel SM bow thruster draws 400amps!  This fuse can handle that, and the fuse holder is also appropriately sized.   I also have a 200amp ANL fuse on the Multi+ battery cable.
  3. How I operate now:  I monitor both the battery voltage and cumulative current flow in/out of the battery bank on the Victron BMV712.  Every morning I record the battery bank voltage before sunrise and the cumulative Ahs drawn.  This gives me some benchmarks for future reference to cross check state of charge.  I have typically charged the battery bank when it gets down between 25.5v and 26.0v (this is somewhere around 15%-30% SOC.  During a period at anchor  I try to balance the battery SOC, my water tank level and planned activities to decide which days to run the generator.   I will typically run the generator for slightly over 90 minutes to allow me to produce approximately 270 liters of water and put 90+ amp-hours of charge back into the battery (usually twice a week at anchor).  At least once a month I try to top charge the battery up to about 27.4v – 27.5v (which is about 90% to 95% SOC). This helps to keep all of the cells in balance with eachother.  I keep the WS500 alternator controller switch set to the “float” when starting the motor and then based on battery SOC I will decide if I want to use the alternator to “Charge” the battery.  One trick here is that if I am motoring early in the day and ‘charge’ up the battery to high, the battery voltage will put the Solar MPPT into “float” mode and then I can lose much of the solar benefit for the rest of the day unless I rest the solar MPPT.   One other downside of not running the engine or generator to charge the batteries on a frequent basis we now need to plan for heating the water in the water heater.

 

Results:  I used to live with energy anxiety with my lead acid batteries.  Now I have a lot more capacity and confidence.  When I had 630AH of LA batteries the most that I ever used was 140AH. Last year with 300AH of LiFPO I regularly used more than 200AH before charging. Now I can comfortably use 300AH.  I used to run the generator every day.  Last season during two months of covid lock-down on anchor I ran the generator every 3rd or 4th day for water making and to top up the batteries.   This year with the increase in solar from 405watts to 690watts , only the need to make water will dictate when we need to run the generator.   And with the increased solar and battery capacity I can begin to look into induction cooking, and how to best rewire the inverter into the 230v circuit to enable use to easily run the hot water heater, washing machine, dishwasher, and even an AC in a pinch.   We don’t have unlimited energy but we are now very happy with our new limits/horizons. 

 

As I said this project was very challenging.  There are many decisions that you need to make along the way and every decision you make has many implications.  I’m far from an expert and definitely did not evaluate all of the possibilities fully.  I feel that I did navigate my way through to a solution that is best for our specific boat and style of living.  It did take me some time to get comfortable with all of the new systems.   Be aware of your comfort zone as you decide how to move forward.  

 

Happy to answer questions or provide additional information that can be of value.  But the best source of general information is the FaceBook group “Lithium batteries on a boat”.

 

Regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387


Valsat 03 dimesions

Slavko Despotovic
 

Hello,

as I can not go to the boat in next weeks (corona lockdown in Slovenia) I would like to ask if anyone have the dimension of GPS Valsat03 that I will replace with chartplotter.

Thank you.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279


Re: C-Drive Oil drain - Alternative

eric freedman
 

If you look at the drawing of the drive, the drain hole is slightly above the forward end of the bottom reservoir.
Unless you put a small pump hose in the drain hole there will always be a bit of emulsified oil there.
The few times I had water in the oil, I drained the C drive. sucked out the remaining oil/water.
I then put diesel in the drive. Let it sit for a while drained it , pumped out the balance and let it dry- drain for a bit,' Then new seals and Gear Oil.
Fair Winds,
Eric
Sm 376

On October 18, 2020 at 2:53 PM "Craig Briggs via groups.io" <sangaris@...> wrote:

Hi Porter,

There may be some other factors at play: 
- Not just density of water and oil, but one may need to consider emulsified oil/water as a third player. Mine has been like grease and sinks under water.
- the oil reservoir tank being about 1 foot above the water line (at least on my SN and likely your 54) gives the oil a "head" vs the water, so at the lip seal that would offset the density difference to some degree. Picture a ten foot tall pipe full of oil immersed in a bucket of water; even though the oil is less dense it will "leak" out into the water.
- the wipers on the seals are designed to microscopically "pump" the fluid being retained back where it came from. That's why your drive shaft into the top of the "C" drive isn't oily. At the same time, if there's fluid on the outside, the seal will tend to "pump" it to the inside. This, if I recall, is the crux of José Venegas' recommendation for water-water-oil.  That is, keep "pumping" water away from the oil, which does allow a miniscule amount of oil through before the outside oil-facing seal "pumps" it all back, lubricating all 3 seals to prevent scoring of the bronze wearing-out-bearing.  

As to "losing oil", I think if the seals were really shot it could be possible (and you'd likely see a slick around the boat). More likely, if the reservoir is down it's either a normal temperature expansion or contraction or, perhaps an initial underfill with some air working its way out. More likely, is "gaining oil" as water is "pumped" into the lower unit.

Finally, can only guess, but seeing a small bit of "milk" after changing lip seals could, I suppose, be an initial "seating" of the seals, but perhaps more likely it is just some emulsified water/oil getting flushed free by the fresh oil that was added. That's why I rise everything with diesel fuel, run the engine and drain a couple of times before adding fresh oil.

That being said, I have hauled every three years for 20 years and always had some milky ness at the end. I'm curious to see if having adopted José's water-water-oil last March will keep me milk free - so far so good.
Cheers,
Craig --
SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL

 


Re: LiFePO4 Conversion on sv BeBe - SM#387

Dan Carlson
 

Hello Hanspeter,
As I purchased things over a period of time from multiple sources I never kept a complete tally.  But here are the main components listed (in USD):
1) Batteries from Electric car parts were $108 ea for the first 24 and $115 for the second 8. The first batch was shipped to Panama (with other items) for $300+? The second shipment in the USA was $140
2) Orion Jr2 BMS was $562 and I was able to pick it up from the manufacturer in Chicago area.
3) Wakespeed 500 alternator controller was $490, 
4) Sterling alternator protection device was $90
5) Victron items: Multi+ inverter/charger $1300, BMV712 monitor$200, Venus GX monitor $300.  
6) assorted relays, fuses,buss bars, cables, wires ... + $700?
7) New solar panels and MPPT added this year were $800 for the panels w/shipping, and $325 for the MPPT.

Clearly the cost can vary greatly based in where you are located.  I was able to source very effectively from the US and carry most items with me to Panama last year the rest was arranged through one shipment through Marine Warehouse. And this year's expansion was also easy to source as the boat was in Maryland. 

I do have the original 3 solar panels with 405 watts of capacity and the matching Victron Blue Solar MPPT for sail and can deliver them I. The Caribbean later this season :-) 

Best regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387
Currently in the Chesepeake Bay




On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 10:19 AM hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:
Hi Dan
very interesting information about you LiFeP04 Project. Will use it when I change to LiFeP.
Question:
How much was the total cost of this project. Without your personal work.
I hope you don‘t mind asking that.
Best regards
Hanspeter
SM 16, Tamango 2
St.Vincent & Grenadines without Covid 19

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Samstag, 17. Okt, 2020 um 21:19, Dan Carlson schrieb:

Here is a bit of summary of the LiFePO4 battery conversion that we have been through on BeBe over the last year.    I’ll start off with a bit about ourselves as context for some of our decisions. Then describe the key components and results. 

 

Lori and I have owned BeBe for 4 years now and have sailed 7 months each winter in the Caribbean. We have primarily lived on 24v/12v power with minimal use of the previous 1800w inverter.  I’ve recorded a lot of stats as we have sailed to understand how we use things and what we need.   We typically use ~120-140AH per day at anchor and ~240AH per day underway (We’ve logged about 24 overnight sails in our four years on BeBe).  BeBe has the Yanmar 100hp main engine w/ 175amp Leece Nevile alternator, 7kw Onan genset and 160LPH 230v Dessalator water maker.  BeBe came to us with 405watts of solar on an arch. We just replaced the three existing panels with 2 LG NeON 2 panels with 345watts each (total of 690watts).   We sailed the first three years with 630AH of DECA lead acid batteries and we limped into Shelter Bay Panama at the end of season three with 3 batteries with internal shorts and the rest with greatly reduced capacity.  We ran the genset every day and twice when it was cloudy.   I was suffering from severe energy insecurity!

 

My philosophy errs towards DIY so that I know my boat systems well.  And I have a background in science/technology with lots of technical problem solving, as well as a long history of home, auto and boat projects.   But this was one of the biggest,  most complex, and daunting for me.

 

We took the approach to build an LiFePO4 system based on Prismatic cells, built into a ‘battery,’  governed by a BMS (battery management system).

  1. Our new batteries are Fortune 100AH cells in a coated aluminum case, purchased from Electric Car Parts Co.  I started 2020 with 24 cells in a 3P8S configuration (3 cells of 3.2v ea in parallel and 8 of these sets of 3 in series) for nominal 24v and 300AH.  This fall I added 8 more cells and reconfigured to 4P8S with 400AH capacity.   The height of the Fortune 100 is 305mm (12in) which is a couple of MM taller than the lip of the battery box so the lid securely holds the batteries in place.  I made custom buss bars with 1”x1/8” copper bar, and I reused the buss bars from the previous configuration to double the thickness bridging across the cell groups. (way more than adequate)
  2. I chose the ORION Jr2 BMS as it appeared to have the most capability and configurability for an application like mine.  It turns out that the amount of configurability was initially very daunting.  I know that you could get away with a lot less, but I still don’t know what capability I would want to give up or that I might want to take better advantage of in the future.   They do have good instructions to get started and have provided me with the support when needed.  But that are not geared up for end  users.  I can talk more on this in a separate thread if there is interest.
  3. Charging system changes:
    1. I replaced the original Dolphin 100A charger with a Victron Multi+ 3000/70/16/230-24v inverter/charger. The existing cables for the 100A Dolphin are barely sufficient.  Due to the heat concern in the engine room and the cable size I have limited the charging output to 60A charging. I think that the heaviest use and most likely failure mode to the unit will be due to charging usage and although the unit has cooling fans and protection circuits to limit output based on heat, I prefer to err on the safe side. We have not come near taxing the limits of the inverter.
    2. I have kept the original Dolphin 30A charger as emergency/supplement.  I only use it for short periods when charging with the generator to supplement the Victron charging. I plan to replace this soon with a similar size LiFPO configured charger.
    3. BeBe has the Leece Nevile 175A large body alternator.  I added a WakeSpeed 500 alternator controller, which I highly recommend.  I also added an Sterling Alternator Protection Device.  The WS500 is derated to 75% output and additionally has a temperature sensors on the alternator body which could derate further.  It pulls a little over 100 amps when running at 1500 rpm or above.  The highest operating temperature I have measured on the alternator is 165F.  One feature that I really like is a hard switch with sets the alternator at the ‘float’ voltage of 26.72v.  This really reduces the charging output and limits any risk of over charging.   I only flip the switch to ‘Charge’ mode when I am paying attention to what is going on when motoring. 

                                                               i.      Installation note:  Both the Victron Multi+ and the WS500 need information from the battery shunt.  I ran a 4-wire run from the shunt behind the battery box to the engine room to provide voltage and current information to the WS500 and voltage info to the Multi+.  

    1. The solar (pv) panels are controlled by a Victron Smart Solar 100/50 MPPT.  I had to upgrade the MPPT for the new larger (higher voltage) panels.  There is a fuse between the solar panels and the battery buss, and there is also a new 40amp Solid State DC relay between the solar panels and the MPPT that would allow the battery BMS to cut the solar charging if needed to prevent over charging of the batteries.
  1. System Monitoring and Control
    1. I replaced the Link10 battery monitor with a Victron BMV712 (Bluetooth enabled battery monitor)  Mounted on the 24v panel in existing hole.
    2. I added a Victron Venus GX monitor mounted on the bulkhead in the cabinet above the sink (to starboard of autopilot computer).  The Venus GX does not have a screen (Lori said no more displays in her galley!).  But everything is accessible via wifi from any of our laptops, iPads, mobile phones.  In addition it can be connected thru wifi to the external Victron VRM Portal to monitor your boat remotely.   I set this up over the summer with a wifi hotspot, but unfortunately halfway through the summer something consumed all of the data on the hotspot and my visibility went dark.    The Venus GX has wired communications from the MPPT, BMV and the Multi+.  I use it to remotely turn the Multi+ Inverter/Charger on and off.     I generally check the BMV or SmartSolar MPPT directly with the Bluetooth connection vs going through the Venus GX.   There is also the capability to establish a CanBUS network that includes the battery BMS and the WS500 alternator controller but I have not really explored the why and how to approach this yet.
  2. Other Bits of Kit:
    1. Contactors/Relays – Contrary to it’s name the BMS (battery management system) does not control your battery charging.  You primarily control that through the battery charging profiles that you set up in your battery chargers, solar MPPT and alternator regulator.  The BMS protects your battery system from over-charging or discharging, that can send signals to charging devices or activate relays to disconnect the charge or discharge sources when limits are reached.  This requires a large contactor/relay on the main battery.  I used a TYCO Kilovac EV200 500+amp 12-900v contactor.  This is a big chunk and consumes about 2AH per day.  Normally you would have one on the charge circuit and one on the discharge circuit but the Victron Multi+ confounds this (one set of wires for both charge and discharge), so I just use two small solid state relays SSR-25DD to relay the signal from the BMS to the main contactor.   I also installed an HB Controls HBC-D1D40A solid state DC relay on the positive cable from the solar panels to the MPPT to handle the Charge control from the BMS. The HB relay has a substantial heat sink to dissipate any heat generated by the load when there is a steady 70+v @ 10amp current flowing under full sun.
    2. Fuses – I added a very large fuse on the main battery for protection.   From BlueSea I selected the POWR-GARD JLLN 400A-P.   This is a 400A Class T fuse.  I would not use less than a CLASS T fuse on the battery.  And make sure your supplier provides you with the ‘time-current’ performance curves on the fuse.  The Amel SM bow thruster draws 400amps!  This fuse can handle that, and the fuse holder is also appropriately sized.   I also have a 200amp ANL fuse on the Multi+ battery cable.
  3. How I operate now:  I monitor both the battery voltage and cumulative current flow in/out of the battery bank on the Victron BMV712.  Every morning I record the battery bank voltage before sunrise and the cumulative Ahs drawn.  This gives me some benchmarks for future reference to cross check state of charge.  I have typically charged the battery bank when it gets down between 25.5v and 26.0v (this is somewhere around 15%-30% SOC.  During a period at anchor  I try to balance the battery SOC, my water tank level and planned activities to decide which days to run the generator.   I will typically run the generator for slightly over 90 minutes to allow me to produce approximately 270 liters of water and put 90+ amp-hours of charge back into the battery (usually twice a week at anchor).  At least once a month I try to top charge the battery up to about 27.4v – 27.5v (which is about 90% to 95% SOC). This helps to keep all of the cells in balance with eachother.  I keep the WS500 alternator controller switch set to the “float” when starting the motor and then based on battery SOC I will decide if I want to use the alternator to “Charge” the battery.  One trick here is that if I am motoring early in the day and ‘charge’ up the battery to high, the battery voltage will put the Solar MPPT into “float” mode and then I can lose much of the solar benefit for the rest of the day unless I rest the solar MPPT.   One other downside of not running the engine or generator to charge the batteries on a frequent basis we now need to plan for heating the water in the water heater.

 

Results:  I used to live with energy anxiety with my lead acid batteries.  Now I have a lot more capacity and confidence.  When I had 630AH of LA batteries the most that I ever used was 140AH. Last year with 300AH of LiFPO I regularly used more than 200AH before charging. Now I can comfortably use 300AH.  I used to run the generator every day.  Last season during two months of covid lock-down on anchor I ran the generator every 3rd or 4th day for water making and to top up the batteries.   This year with the increase in solar from 405watts to 690watts , only the need to make water will dictate when we need to run the generator.   And with the increased solar and battery capacity I can begin to look into induction cooking, and how to best rewire the inverter into the 230v circuit to enable use to easily run the hot water heater, washing machine, dishwasher, and even an AC in a pinch.   We don’t have unlimited energy but we are now very happy with our new limits/horizons. 

 

As I said this project was very challenging.  There are many decisions that you need to make along the way and every decision you make has many implications.  I’m far from an expert and definitely did not evaluate all of the possibilities fully.  I feel that I did navigate my way through to a solution that is best for our specific boat and style of living.  It did take me some time to get comfortable with all of the new systems.   Be aware of your comfort zone as you decide how to move forward.  

 

Happy to answer questions or provide additional information that can be of value.  But the best source of general information is the FaceBook group “Lithium batteries on a boat”.

 

Regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387


Re: C-Drive Oil drain - Alternative

Craig Briggs
 
Edited

Hi Porter,

There may be some other factors at play: 
- Not just density of water and oil, but one may need to consider emulsified oil/water as a third player. Mine has been like grease and sinks under water.
- the oil reservoir tank being about 1 foot above the water line (at least on my SN and likely your 54) gives the oil a "head" vs the water, so at the lip seal that would offset the density difference to some degree. Picture a ten foot tall pipe full of oil immersed in a bucket of water; even though the oil is less dense it will "leak" out into the water.
- the wipers on the seals are designed to microscopically "pump" the fluid being retained back where it came from. That's why your drive shaft into the top of the "C" drive isn't oily. At the same time, if there's fluid on the outside, the seal will tend to "pump" it to the inside. This, if I recall, is the crux of José Venegas' recommendation for water-water-oil.  That is, keep "pumping" water away from the oil, which does allow a miniscule amount of oil through before the outside oil-facing seal "pumps" it all back, lubricating all 3 seals to prevent scoring of the bronze wearing-out-bearing.  

As to "losing oil", I think if the seals were really shot it could be possible (and you'd likely see a slick around the boat). More likely, if the reservoir is down it's either a normal temperature expansion/contraction or, perhaps an initial underfill with some air working its way out. More likely, it is "gaining oil" as water is "pumped" into the lower unit.

Finally, can only guess, but seeing a small bit of "milk" after changing lip seals could, I suppose, be an initial "seating" of the seals, but perhaps more likely it is just some emulsified water/oil getting flushed free by the fresh oil that was added. That's why I rinse everything with diesel fuel, run the engine in gear and drain a couple of times before adding fresh oil.

That being said, I have hauled every three years for 20 years and always had some milkyness at the end. I'm curious to see if having adopted José's water-water-oil last March will keep me milk free - so far so good.
Cheers,
Craig --
SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Fusion Marine Stereo (24 volt?)

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

For more pover in the speakers and in the Beach i take 

B&O Beolith 


This is a serpiced moment when you here this saund 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: C-Drive Oil drain - Alternative

Porter McRoberts
 

Thanks Craig. 

So it’s entirely possible we had a small ingress of seawater while the seals “seated,” and that settles at the lowest point in the system, certainly not in the reservoir/expansion tank (and thus not seen). The key for me going forward, it would seem, would be to keep an eye on the volume of the reserve, if it increases...the ingress likely continues.   
I’m trying to think of the tank height relative to waterline, I think it’s slightly above, which if the densities of these two fluids were the same would result in relative positive pressure of the system compared to the seawater. Is the key to the ingress problem that the oil is significantly less dense and so even with the column above the waterline, there remains a relative tendency of ingress vs egress?  Does anyone ever “loose oil?”  

This should be at the crux of the seal orientation debate I would think. 

Thankfully, still lubricious,

Porter 

Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Oct 18, 2020, at 4:20 AM, Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris@...> wrote:

Hi Porter et al,
There is no "circulating system" in the "C" drive like an engine has with an oil pump and channels and holes for for pressurized oil flow. It's just a hollow structure around the gears and bearings that creates a bath of oil. The hoses at the top simply allow for expansion into the reservoir as the oil warms slightly and, while there may be minor circulation of oil due to convection, that's just incidental. Pretty much analogous to the lower unit of a 2-cycle outboard... 
--
Cheers, Craig - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: VP TMD 22 muffler

Paul Osterberg
 

Thanks Bill
We are preparing Kerpa for Our next trip which is planned to go to The Amazon then slowly north to Trinidad for Lay-up, but after that we plan/hope (Covid19 allow  to spend a few years in the Pacifics so probably better to replace it now when I have time. Is Vetus the best Option for a Muffler? 
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


Re: Registering an SM in Canada

Paul Guenette
 

Dealing with Transport Canada can be challenging, frustrating and a bit of a crap shoot. A lot of how easy or difficult your registration process goes will simply be determined by who ends up in charge of your file. 

Carefully read the Transport Canada forms on how and what they want for ships measurements. They are not looking for the actual length of your boat, (look really carefully at the forms). If you do a search on the Transport Canada site you are able to look at other Amel that are registered in Canada. You will find a lot of the Amels have something in the range of the following measurements:  Length 14.85 meters,  Breath 4.60 meters,  Depth 3.29 meters,  Gross Tonnage 17.97,  Net Tonnage 17.08,  Brake Power 73.6 KW.  

There are advantages, as mentioned by others above, of registering your Amel in a country other than Canada. It depends on where you plan to sail. 

Congratulations and Good Luck,

Fair winds, Paul
Aramis, SM 2000 - 444


Re: Genoa Chain Plate bolts Leaking in aft hanging closet

Paul Guenette
 

Here is some information on Butyl Tape.

https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/

I used Butyl tape on my previous sailboat and was really happy with the results. Not all Butyl tapes are equal, there are different qualities of Butyl tape. I found the above link a good place to source it from. 

Fair winds, Paul

Aramis, SM 2000 - 444
currently moored in Comox, BC Canada


Re: Fusion Marine Stereo (24 volt?)

Ian Townsend
 

I replaced my previous Pioneer with Fusion AV-650. It is mounted in the open cabinet area in the main salon on portside. My biggest complaint is that the BT does not carry far. This could be a function if its placement or the unit itself. 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...>
Date: 2020-10-18 12:04 (GMT-05:00)
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Fusion Marine Stereo (24 volt?)

Hi Kevin,

 

The power to the radio goes through a 24-12 vdc convertor.

 

In regard to the Fusion stereo: IMO good speakers but overprice radio/receiver (unless you plan to mount it outside). I would suggest a standard known brand car radio with BT and a USB input on the front. This way you can plug any device into it. I have been using for 9 years an Alpine CDE series unit and am very happy with it. It was about 1/3 the price of Fusion. I looked long and hard at the Fusion line before buying Alpine. The ability to mix the sound output to my preference was the selling point of Alpine.

 

Most reputable car audio manufacturers will spray their circuitry with silicone to avoid corrosion – think of an install in a convertible in a coastal area. This is the same process touted by Fusion and is commonplace in most other manufacturers. Marketing spin can work wonders for sales.

 

As an added thought, I replaced the interior speakers of my SM with 6X9’s. These offer a much better full range of sound. There is plenty of room to make this upgrade. You will need to make the hole larger for the interior speakers.

 

Replacing the cockpit speakers needs a little care since the speakers have magnets and can interfere with the compass, especially the port side.  I used Fusion 4” speakers – they are almost a perfect fit to the original hole Amel cut for the original speakers and will not affect the accuracy of the compass.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Schmit
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2020 4:32 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Fusion Marine Stereo (24 volt?)

 

I was wondering if anyone has successfully sourced a  24 volt Fusion Marine stereo ?  I could only find 12 volt systems on line.

Thanks.

Kevin