Date   

Re: Bow Thruster Amps rating.

Bob Chapman
 

My belief, from many years in both aerospace and industrial electrical engineering, is that one should only put one terminal under a fastener (screw or bolt or nut). When there are more than one, it significantly increases the chance that a wire will wiggle, particularly where there is any vibration, thus loosening the whole “stack”.  Then the added resistance due to the looseness will quickly lead to a red-hot stack If there’s much current flowing in the stack.  I clearly remember ordering silver bars drilled and tapped to use as common bars. Wasn’t so very expensive. 

On Oct 30, 2020, at 3:58 PM, Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:



Hi Chris,   Please share pictures of how things look after you “unstack” the main switches.  I have been considering that as well. 

 

Here are a few responses to your ideas: 

  1. I would prefer to leave the very heavy bow-thruster cables as is on the Main switch.  I don’t want to add anything in that heavy load circuit that I can avoid.  
  2. I read a few concerns about ANL fuses for heavy load circuits and recommendations to use Class T for those.  I have one 400A class T from Blue Sea on the positive battery cable.  The inverter/charger, solar MPPT etc are also fused separately (200A ANL on the Victron Multi-Plus 3000/70/16)

 

Would also be interested in more information on where you mount and how you wire your rotary switch when you get that installed.

 

Thanks and regards,  Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, sm #387

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Doucette
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 8:55 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Group Moderators <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow Thruster Amps rating.

 

 

Thanks everyone!  My setup has me in 4 groups of 100AH 12V Battle Borns @24v (400AH).  I have each group's positives and negatives aggregating to corresponding bus bars that then lead to the battery box posts.  I have an AMP ANL-style fuse holder in-line on the positive bus bar.  Everything I touch on this boat is going to be fused / breakered out appropriately.  I'll start with the 500amp and move up to 600 if needed.  

 

Bill Kinney- basically doing what you have done with your 24v / 12v distribution. I am going to work backwards from distribution and  "Unstack" the main Amel switches and move all the cables to bus bars (4 of them Engine Pos, Engine Neg, House load Pos, House Neg.) proper fusing closest to distribution and breakered out for switching. Same goes with any of the 12v distributions. All with appropriate marine wire, fittings, and labeling. 

 

On the AC side I am removing the Amel Auto Priority Gen / Shore Power priority switch (yes it has severed her well so far) in favor of a manual rotary Gen-Off_Shore switch..  Just for my peace of mind. 

Chris 

 


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

eric freedman
 

Did you speak with Amel and ask why the packing did not come in precut?
For the last 18 years mine was always precut.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberite

On November 1, 2020 at 2:45 PM "Paul Stascavage via groups.io" <pstas2003@...> wrote:

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com

 


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hello Paul,

It’s an easy task; arm yourself with a very sharp knife. Remove all the old packing. (I use a dental pick) Wrap the new material around the rudder shaft and cut diagonally at about 1 mm longer than needed. With a wooden block of suitable size (no wider than the groove), tamp down the first layer.  Add Teflon grease atop this first layer.  Do the same for the second layer ensuring the cut is 120 degrees away from the first cut.  

Idem. For 3rd layer.

Install the white nylon nut and tighten accordingly.  Sea trial when able… retighten if needed.


Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera, SM007 New Zealand



On 2 Nov 2020, at 08:45, Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003@...> wrote:

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Karen Smith
 

The exact metric size packing that Amel ships can be the very devil to source in the US, but the closest inch size works fine. If I recall Amel supplies 8mm packing, and 5/16 inch packing is within 1% of that.  But measure before you buy, my memory isn't 100% on 8mm or 10mm...

Far better to cut by wrapping it around the shaft than to do it by measure.  If you do perfectly square cuts on a length of packing exactly equal to the shaft OD, the cuts will gap apart on the outside of the packing with is significantly longer in circumference than the shaft.

Bill
Harmonie
SM160
Annapolis, MD.


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Alan Leslie
 

You can buy stuffing box packing from any decent chandler, it's not Amel specific. 
We did ours 7 years ago and it hasn't leaked since.
Agree with Danny, used the shaft as a template, cut diagonally and it doesn't have to be dead on accurate, insert the three rings so the cuts are 120 degrees off from each other and you will have no problems.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

 

C=pi*diameter

Measure the diameter

Length of packing=

(3.14159265359* diameter)

Let me know the answer. 😃

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Nov 1, 2020, 1:45 PM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Paul Stascavage
 

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Jarek Zemlo
 

Hi,

I purchased for my SM also 1 x 70cm from SAV AMEL. This is perfectly normal as the stuffing material is supplied in 1 single length that will have to be re-cut into 3 pieces.

Regards
Jarek Zemlo
S/Y NOA BLUE


Re: .Re: LiFePO4 Conversion on sv BeBe - SM#387

Philippe Belloir
 





Philippe Belloir  
+33 781 709 791


-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>
Date : 31/10/2020 11:38 (GMT+01:00)
À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] .Re: LiFePO4 Conversion on sv BeBe - SM#387

We have 450ah victron smart lithium and during fault testing have run the bow thruster on our a54 with engine off. Voltage stays well above 24v so amperage is not spiking as it would with lead acid. 

The wind lass draws much less wattage and more than once have used it with engine off to shorten scope when our desired 7:1 swings a bit close to the neighbors. 

This is all with a set of batteries that have been used for 2 years full time live aboard and cycled over 100 thousand amp hours total. 

So my experience is that, yes , the high amp problem will be solved. 



--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Karen,

I wrap the length around the rudder shaft and cut it on the diagonal. An alternative is to find a tube the same diameter and use that for your cutting template. I would not use a straight cut. Also when you fit the rings stagger the cuts. It doesn't need to be perfect to the mm as the crush effect on tightening seals it aided by the diagonal cut which by its very nature helps the seal, that's why the diagonal cut is the recommended method.

I have never had problems with initial leaking, once installed that is it. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 01 November 2020 at 12:28 "Karen Smith via groups.io" <karenharmonie@...> wrote:

One long piece spiraled around the shaft will most certainly NOT work.  If Amel is not cutting it to length for you, it kind of defeats the purpose of buying from them!

It needs to be accurately cut to length--exactly one shaft diameter.  I have cut mine straight, and that works.  A bevel is fine if you can do it accurately.  If you try to cut it yourself, it's a bad idea to cut it "a little long" and then trim it to exact length.  If you try to cut a millimeter or two off at a time it's very hard to keep the end from crushing and fraying, and that makes a bad fit, and a bad fit means leaks.

A good article on the details of how to cut it with some things that make a good (or bad!) job:   https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/what-are-key-steps-cutting-packing-optimum-performance

It's not rocket science, but it is technique sensitive.  You can use the rudder shaft to size the rings, but it is awkward at best and hard to do a good job.  

In my experience with this rudder shaft, and others, it takes some time for the packing to "settle in."  For the first couple days of active steering underway you will have to keep a close eye on it and be ready to tighten it further if it starts to drip--no matter how tight you think you got it on the first go.   After a few days of sailing it will likely be done, and will then be good for thousands of miles without further attention.

Bill Kinney
SM #160
Harmonie
Annapolis, MD.


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Karen Smith
 
Edited

One long piece spiraled around the shaft will most certainly NOT work.  If Amel is not cutting it to length for you, it kind of defeats the purpose of buying from them!

It needs to be accurately cut to length--exactly one shaft circumference.  I have cut mine straight, and that works.  A bevel is fine if you can do it accurately.  If you try to cut it yourself, it's a bad idea to cut it "a little long" and then trim it to exact length.  If you try to cut a millimeter or two off at a time it's very hard to keep the end from crushing and fraying, and that makes a bad fit, and a bad fit means leaks.

A good article on the details of how to cut it with some things that make a good (or bad!) job:  https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/what-are-key-steps-cutting-packing-optimum-performance

It's not rocket science, but it is technique sensitive.  You can use the rudder shaft to size the rings, but it is awkward at best and hard to do a good job.  

In my experience with this rudder shaft, and others, it takes some time for the packing to "settle in."  For the first couple days of active steering underway you will have to keep a close eye on it and be ready to tighten it further if it starts to drip--no matter how tight you think you got it on the first go.   After a few days of sailing it will likely be done, and will then be good for thousands of miles without further attention.

Bill Kinney
SM #160
Harmonie
Annapolis, MD.


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

eric freedman
 

I always received 3 individual pieces cut at a diagonal to the correct length.
Fair Winds.
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite

On October 31, 2020 at 5:15 PM "Paul Stascavage via groups.io" <pstas2003@...> wrote:

Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com

 


Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Paul Stascavage
 

Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


Re: Genoa Chain Plate bolts Leaking in aft hanging closet

Matt Salatino
 

I apologize for not jumping into this fray.
My experience with sealing chainplates with 5200 were less than good. It s difficult to find things that adhere well to stainless steel. The native oxide prevents good adhesion.
After much research, I found a GE silicone product that actually had adhesion to stainless steel, printed on its applications. After using this, 6 years later, no leaks.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt
A50 #27

On Oct 31, 2020, at 10:01 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Ken,

I realize that we all use what we have available or can get when we are in remote areas, but, 5200? I am guessing if it seals the leak you have, you'll never get the chainplate off, and if it does not stop the leak, you will never get the chainplate off without taking some of the hull with it.

I hope that this seals the leak for you,
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 3:40 AM Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
1.  Remove Rub Rail starting from Aft.  
2.  Remove all four lower bolts, then remove the upper single bolt holding the chainplate.
3.  Clean hole and bolt with acetone.
4.  Clean the Chainplate, Bolts, and Nuts.  Also clean the gelcoat where Chainplate will be attached.
5.  Verify no damage or pitting on all Stainless surfaces. 
6.  Put good amount of 5200 into holes.  Use a small toothbrush or q-tip to make sure that 5200 is completely covering the walls of bolt hole.
7.  Made the same pattern of 5200 which was originally on the chainplate. 
8.  Set the Chainplate in place and replace upper single bolt and nut. 
9.  Replace the 4 lower bolts and nuts.
10.  Clean up the huge mess of 5200.
11.  Glue interior back together with 3M Super 77 Spray Adhesive.  
12.  Replace Rub Rail rubber piece, this was fairly easy.

Job, start to finish, should take about 3 hours.   if you have all the materials at hand.
1. 5200, Butyl Tape, or 4200
2. 3M SUPER 77 Spay Adhesive
3. Proper sized wrenches (two)
4. A friend that can handle some choice words, and he may also repeat these words, over and over.
5. Acetone.
6. Rags, and paper towels.
7. Large screwdriver to start the Rub Rail Removal.
8. Something like a screwdriver with a blunt face and a plastic hammer to push the Rub Rail back into place.
<DSC08731.JPG><DSC08688.JPG>


Re: Genoa Chain Plate bolts Leaking in aft hanging closet

James Alton
 

Ken,

   Great news!  Glad to hear that your all back together and that you decided to rebed the whole chainplate.   You should be leak free in that area for a couple of decades or so.   Try to avoid getting oil/diesel on any of the polyurathenes such as 5200 which can permanently soften them! I know how challenging it can be to acquire materials in other countries and that sometimes you just have to use what you can find.  The 5200 should give you good service in this application.   For the record, I have not had much luck with the Sikaflex caulkings though I tend to stick to what I find that does work and not change so my Sikaflex experience is limited to maybe half a dozen jobs.  My favourite caulkings to date are:  3M 101 original polysulfide caulking,  (No longer available unfortunately) West Marine Polyether Multicaulk in white and black and the  Dow Corning Mil-spec 3145 gray silicone caulking which is the ultimate for many applications but the adhesion is so good that you can literally remove the gel coat when you take up hardware so cut it loose with a sharp putty knife rather than just prying.  The 3145 can also take a LOT of heat so heating does not do much to aid in removal.   The Multicaulk is much weaker so hardware is easy to remove,  even easier than the 4200.  The Multicaulk is not destroyed by occasional exposure to oils.  I would consider stocking some of the Butyl tape the next time you come across a good source.  Butyl is great for temp. sealing jobs and seems to be storable forever so you will always have a sealant on board that is not cured in the tube.  I can understand why so many are recommending this type of sealant but I just don’t like the black sticky lines that are left when bedding with this material.  Functionally it seems to work very well.

  Hopefully you are back in the water or getting close.  Looking forward to your next episode.

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Oct 31, 2020, at 4:14 AM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

 
Well, I ended up using 5200.  I bought some Sikaflex 295 (which is supposed to be like 4200) to do the job, as I could not find 4200 or Butyl Tape for sale anywhere in Krabi Thailand.  But, after I pulled the chainplate off, with the help of a friend, found that the new batch of SikaFlex had already gone off.  So, my friend helper, who has owned a boat for 40 years said WHY ARE YOU USING SIKAFLEX anyway...  That stuff is crap!  
 
Then he said a few things like -  
When was the last time you had the chainplate off?....  I answered - Well, never!
So, when's the next time you are going to take it off?...  I answered - Hopefully never!
 
Sounds like you need to use 5200, and I'll tell you another thing...  There is no way you're not going to be able to get the chainplate off if you need to...  
 
I had some 5200 in my fridge, so I pulled it out, and sealed it up....  After making a huge mess.  The job was done....  It was a pretty easy job, including removing and replacing the Rub Rail, it took about 3 hours.  The hardest job was cleaning up the extra 5200.
 
Ken


Re: New 175 am alternator

Karen Smith
 

This isn't advice, just our experience.  

Our boat was one of what seems to have been few SMs that were delivered with the "standard" 50 Amp alternator.  For the way we use our boat, that has been completely sufficient.  It supplies all the power we need when motoring, with enough left over to run the watermaker, or top off the batteries.  It's rare that we leave an anchorage with less than 80% charge in our batteries, so we are not normally asking the main engine alternator to deliver very much in the way of charge.  If we actually need to bulk charge the batteries while underway, we use the generator.


Re: Genoa Chain Plate bolts Leaking in aft hanging closet

Dan Carlson
 

Hi Ken, 

We had some slight seapage on the port side chain plate ( in the head storage compartment).  My remedy two years ago was to peal back the liner, thoroughly clean all around the bolts on the inside of the hull, then seal all around with silicone sealant. Then re-attach the liner. We have had no further issues. 

I thought that taking the rub rail apart to address from the outside was asking for more problems.  

I do not think that there is a structural issue with the chain plates just over time to seal has failed.

Thanks for posting the photos. That confirms what I expected to see from the drawings that I had seen.

Best regards Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387



On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 4:40 AM Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
1.  Remove Rub Rail starting from Aft.  
2.  Remove all four lower bolts, then remove the upper single bolt holding the chainplate.
3.  Clean hole and bolt with acetone.
4.  Clean the Chainplate, Bolts, and Nuts.  Also clean the gelcoat where Chainplate will be attached.
5.  Verify no damage or pitting on all Stainless surfaces. 
6.  Put good amount of 5200 into holes.  Use a small toothbrush or q-tip to make sure that 5200 is completely covering the walls of bolt hole.
7.  Made the same pattern of 5200 which was originally on the chainplate. 
8.  Set the Chainplate in place and replace upper single bolt and nut. 
9.  Replace the 4 lower bolts and nuts.
10.  Clean up the huge mess of 5200.
11.  Glue interior back together with 3M Super 77 Spray Adhesive.  
12.  Replace Rub Rail rubber piece, this was fairly easy.

Job, start to finish, should take about 3 hours.   if you have all the materials at hand.
1. 5200, Butyl Tape, or 4200
2. 3M SUPER 77 Spay Adhesive
3. Proper sized wrenches (two)
4. A friend that can handle some choice words, and he may also repeat these words, over and over.
5. Acetone.
6. Rags, and paper towels.
7. Large screwdriver to start the Rub Rail Removal.
8. Something like a screwdriver with a blunt face and a plastic hammer to push the Rub Rail back into place.


Re: Genoa Chain Plate bolts Leaking in aft hanging closet

 

Ken,

I realize that we all use what we have available or can get when we are in remote areas, but, 5200? I am guessing if it seals the leak you have, you'll never get the chainplate off, and if it does not stop the leak, you will never get the chainplate off without taking some of the hull with it.

I hope that this seals the leak for you,
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 3:40 AM Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
1.  Remove Rub Rail starting from Aft.  
2.  Remove all four lower bolts, then remove the upper single bolt holding the chainplate.
3.  Clean hole and bolt with acetone.
4.  Clean the Chainplate, Bolts, and Nuts.  Also clean the gelcoat where Chainplate will be attached.
5.  Verify no damage or pitting on all Stainless surfaces. 
6.  Put good amount of 5200 into holes.  Use a small toothbrush or q-tip to make sure that 5200 is completely covering the walls of bolt hole.
7.  Made the same pattern of 5200 which was originally on the chainplate. 
8.  Set the Chainplate in place and replace upper single bolt and nut. 
9.  Replace the 4 lower bolts and nuts.
10.  Clean up the huge mess of 5200.
11.  Glue interior back together with 3M Super 77 Spray Adhesive.  
12.  Replace Rub Rail rubber piece, this was fairly easy.

Job, start to finish, should take about 3 hours.   if you have all the materials at hand.
1. 5200, Butyl Tape, or 4200
2. 3M SUPER 77 Spay Adhesive
3. Proper sized wrenches (two)
4. A friend that can handle some choice words, and he may also repeat these words, over and over.
5. Acetone.
6. Rags, and paper towels.
7. Large screwdriver to start the Rub Rail Removal.
8. Something like a screwdriver with a blunt face and a plastic hammer to push the Rub Rail back into place.


Re: New 175 am alternator

Rink De Haan
 

Dear Stefan

I am no expert on this but when I was researching for a new 24v alternator for our 2001 SM with the Yanmar 75hp engine the Prestolite dealer advised me to stay with the original size.  
The snap in replacement for the original is 

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?pf=true&item_detail_id=32807&item=66021507&product=ALTERNATOR

For me completely sufficient and working like a dream. 


But also interested in the advise of others 


Best regards 

Rink

SM2k #330 Razor’s Edge





Re: New 175 am alternator

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He Stefan and Anne

i would also like to see my Volvo Penta TMD 222 and 98
for under SM 222 bj 1998
At 175 AH, I'd be a little nervous about the power of 75 p of the engine, because a 175 Altinator also takes power from the engine.
i've been watching Alpha/110 or 24/150
they have a good cargo glider who makes the altinator have a three-step load and the altinator produce high AH by smal
upm / min .

https://www.mastervolt.de/light machine-24v/

But the tape doesn't fit and something needs to be changed.

I would be grateful for experiences from the gupp ?

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

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