Date   

Re: A54 bow thruster seal replacement?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Dean,

When I was troubleshooting my 1 year old replacement BT motor, those were the words out of the mouth of the lead tech at Sleipner USA (IMTRA). They had some trouble with lifepo4 equipped boats because they designed it to operate at much lower voltage than the lifepo4 batteries provided under load. Perhaps they were trying to get out of warranty work, but that's what they stated. Turns out my trouble was something else, btw.

Regarding the shutoff switch, apparently newer A54s came with an emergency shutoff switch in the bow locker. Olivier suggested in his survey that I install one. I did a bit of asking around and my understanding is there was an A54 that had the solenoids melt closed (probably due to high amperage as a result of low voltage) and thereafter it was recommended that you have the emergency shutoff switch and run the genset and chargers when you're using the BT. It was third hand, but I also definitely have read, more than once, the recommendation to run the genset/chargers in docking operations.

I had the Sleipner shutoff switch but it's not that waterproof and quickly failed in that sometimes wet bow locker. I now have three 450A fuses, one for each pair of batteries, installed.  I also have a third battery switch at the passage berth dedicated to turning off the BT power in an emergency.

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 5:22 PM Dean Gillies <stella@...> wrote:
Hi Scott,

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 11:53 AM, Scott SV Tengah wrote:
That said, lower than 22v is very plausible with normal batteries.
In an Amel, yes, but not always.
A fully charged 115Ah AGM (such as Rolls S12-128AGM) will deliver 67A for two minutes while retaining terminal voltage above 12V.  Put 12 of these in a 2S6P arrangement and you get 400A at 24V. That's almost 10kW delivered to the cable with terminal voltage above 24V. In an Amel the voltage drop at 400A would be around 2V, hence 22V delivered to the BT. However, in a boat where the batteries are located close to the BT, then the voltage drop in the cable can be much less, so the delivered voltage to the BT will be much closer to 24V. 

I find it difficult to believe Sleipner would produce a "24V" BT which does not operate reliably if powered with 24V which is exactly what LIthium batteries would provide in an Amel cabling setup.

Btw I didn't quite understand ... why (and where) did Amel ask you to install a shut off switch? I understand there is no breaker/fusing on the BT cables, which is interesting in itself.

Cheers, Dean
SV Stella A54-154


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Bow Thruster Issue SM 292

Matt Salatino
 

That’s exactly what Amel suggested we do when running the bow thruster.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Dec 14, 2020, at 10:57 PM, Karen Smith via groups.io <karenharmonie@...> wrote:

Heinz,

If I understand your problem, when you run the bow thruster, your instruments shut down, and the bow thruster stops after a few seconds.

It sounds like the high power draw of the bow thruster (>480 Amps) is pulling down the voltage of the batteries to the point where the instruments shut down.  My first guess is that that problem is the batteries are weak.  

It will not completely fix the problem, but a help would be to run the generator with all battery chargers whenever you are running the bow thruster.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: Bow Thruster Issue SM 292

Karen Smith
 

Heinz,

If I understand your problem, when you run the bow thruster, your instruments shut down, and the bow thruster stops after a few seconds.

It sounds like the high power draw of the bow thruster (>480 Amps) is pulling down the voltage of the batteries to the point where the instruments shut down.  My first guess is that that problem is the batteries are weak.  

It will not completely fix the problem, but a help would be to run the generator with all battery chargers whenever you are running the bow thruster.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: A54 bow thruster seal replacement?

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Scott,

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 11:53 AM, Scott SV Tengah wrote:
That said, lower than 22v is very plausible with normal batteries.
In an Amel, yes, but not always.
A fully charged 115Ah AGM (such as Rolls S12-128AGM) will deliver 67A for two minutes while retaining terminal voltage above 12V.  Put 12 of these in a 2S6P arrangement and you get 400A at 24V. That's almost 10kW delivered to the cable with terminal voltage above 24V. In an Amel the voltage drop at 400A would be around 2V, hence 22V delivered to the BT. However, in a boat where the batteries are located close to the BT, then the voltage drop in the cable can be much less, so the delivered voltage to the BT will be much closer to 24V. 

I find it difficult to believe Sleipner would produce a "24V" BT which does not operate reliably if powered with 24V which is exactly what LIthium batteries would provide in an Amel cabling setup.

Btw I didn't quite understand ... why (and where) did Amel ask you to install a shut off switch? I understand there is no breaker/fusing on the BT cables, which is interesting in itself.

Cheers, Dean
SV Stella A54-154


Re: Onan Generator removal

Karen Smith
 

Chris,

Not exactly what you were asking for, but hopefully some help nonetheless.  Just a couple months ago we removed our MDKD 6.5 KVA generator from our engine room past our Volvo.

Before the lift, I stripped off all the bolted on bits I could.  Fuel filter, exhaust manifold, etc. and unbolted it from the pan so we weren’t lifting that as well.  It would have fit without all this, but is still seemed a good idea.

We tied a line from the crane hook, down into the engine room so the hook was up and out of the way. A piece of plywood leaned up against the engine served as a skid so it didn’t bounce against the Volvo. Some kind of solid guide on the port side of the cockpit opening would be a good idea to keep the lift line from abrading the engine room insulating foam.  

Thera was a LOT of extra room, not a squeak fit at all.


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: A54 bow thruster seal replacement?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Dean, 


I agree that at higher voltages, current should just go down. 

That said, lower than 22v is very plausible with normal batteries. Put that big of a load on even a big lead acid bank and I would expect a big voltage drop. 

Amel suggested I add the emergency shut off switch. I believe it's for that reason. 


On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 14:32 Dean Gillies <stella@...> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 04:07 AM, Scott SV Tengah wrote:
Sleipner said that they spec theirs to expect 21-22 volts or thereabouts under load and we are closer to 24.5-25
Scott, that's an interesting point.  
The cabling to the BT is 70sqmm (according to Amel drawings), and the run must be about 10m or so?  The voltage drop in the cable at say 360A (8kW@24V) will be about 1.5V, plus a bit for connections and internal resistance of the battery. So the voltage will definitely be higher than 22V, but should be less than 24V.  However, I don't believe the BT will be damaged in any way by a 24V drive. It should just take less current.   Don't forget that many (most?) BT installations have dedicated LA batteries in close proximity, with minimal voltage drop in cabling. Amel's are a little unusual in having the batteries so far away from the BT.  If the Sleipner product did not work properly at 24V I would be very surprised. I suspect their comment reflects their view that it will "still work" down at those voltages rather than not working at 24V.

Lithium is still on my mind!
Cheers
Dean
SV Stella A54-154
 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: A54 bow thruster seal replacement?

Dean Gillies
 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 04:07 AM, Scott SV Tengah wrote:
Sleipner said that they spec theirs to expect 21-22 volts or thereabouts under load and we are closer to 24.5-25
Scott, that's an interesting point.  
The cabling to the BT is 70sqmm (according to Amel drawings), and the run must be about 10m or so?  The voltage drop in the cable at say 360A (8kW@24V) will be about 1.5V, plus a bit for connections and internal resistance of the battery. So the voltage will definitely be higher than 22V, but should be less than 24V.  However, I don't believe the BT will be damaged in any way by a 24V drive. It should just take less current.   Don't forget that many (most?) BT installations have dedicated LA batteries in close proximity, with minimal voltage drop in cabling. Amel's are a little unusual in having the batteries so far away from the BT.  If the Sleipner product did not work properly at 24V I would be very surprised. I suspect their comment reflects their view that it will "still work" down at those voltages rather than not working at 24V.

Lithium is still on my mind!
Cheers
Dean
SV Stella A54-154
 


Re: Onan Generator removal

Mark Erdos
 

Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfUXTi_UXn0&ab_channel=SailingSVDelos

 

 

With best regards,

 

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Doucette
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 9:01 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Generator Removal

 

Does anyone know if you can remove an Onan Type 7MDKAV-2317 MDKAV 7 kW 50 Hz Diesel out of a later model SM without removal of the Yanmar engine?  If you have done this would love to here your experiences. 

Thanks!
Chris

Amarok SM385


Re: Super Maramu Spinnaker Halyard Bracket Shackle Size

Mark McGovern
 

Chris,

I guess you are the SM owner that I met at Bert Jabin's that had his masts down.

If you ever need any pics of your masts I have a ton of them.  Just ask me. ;)

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Super Maramu Spinnaker Halyard Bracket Shackle Size

Chris Doucette
 

Hmm this picture looks surprisingly familiar--- no wait! that is my mast!  lol  


Re: A54 bow thruster seal replacement?

 

Yes, using a piece of the right size steel bar. It was a lot of pressure with a mechanical puller.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 11:24 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Ok, we're now digging into it and here's where we're stuck:

We removed the two large bolts that go into the shaft and it seems the shaft does not want to drop even after some copious PB Blaster. Are we missing something or is it just that the lower unit / motor junction is heavily corroded? 

Bill - did you remove the motor and use a puller to apply force directly to the shaft itself? The mechanic working with me is a bit afraid to put too much force on the shaft itself.

Thanks!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Super Maramu Spinnaker Halyard Bracket Shackle Size

Mark McGovern
 

Does anyone know the correct size shackle to fit the spinnaker halyard bracket on the main mast on the SM?  It's the shackle circled in the picture below:



Thanks,
Mark

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Bow Thruster Issue SM 292

heinz@quetzal.berlin
 

There was no problem on my Super maramu 2000 I did it in May

Heinz sm2000, quetzal, 292




Am 14.12.2020 um 20:01 schrieb Chris Doucette <amaroksailing@...>:

Does anyone know if you can remove an Onan Type 7MDKAV-2317 MDKAV 7 kW 50 Hz Diesel out of a later model SM without removal of the Yanmar engine?  If you have done this would love to here your experiences. 

Thanks!
Chris

Amarok SM385

--
Hello 
Since yesterday when I tried to park in a box in a marina in Auckland my bow thruster motor failed. 
If I turn the beam to the left or right the whole power supply breaks down for a moment. After that the power is back. 
I took the rudder off and it can be turned perfectly by hand. 
But the same happens with the engine. No power for a few seconds, all instruments off, no rotation of the motor. 
Does anyone know this problem. 
Does anyone know how I can find out if it's the motor or maybe a relay that doesn't work. 
Can I test the motor without a relay, maybe on the 4 cables marked D1, D2, and A1, A2?
I am grateful for a quick answer.
Heinz SY Quetzal, SM 2000, 292


Generator Removal

Chris Doucette
 

Does anyone know if you can remove an Onan Type 7MDKAV-2317 MDKAV 7 kW 50 Hz Diesel out of a later model SM without removal of the Yanmar engine?  If you have done this would love to here your experiences. 

Thanks!
Chris

Amarok SM385


Re: Secondary Saltwater Manifold SMs & 54s, and possibly some Santorins, Mangos, and Maramus

 

Yes,

For the 54 we are finalizing a design that will look like the following. I expect that it will mount slightly higher than the original where there is 10mm clearance between the Cockpit drain and the bulkhead insulation. The cockpit drain will be in front of the Blue Coupling. It will ship with a new 35mm hose that connects to the Primary Saltwater Manifold. Other issues are still being worked out and a test install will be done on a 54. It will likely be Jan or Feb of next year before the 54 is available to purchase. The SM should be available sooner. 

I need to find a SM owner willing to test the install before it is available for ordering. Someone in Europe would be best.

Below is the 54 design as it is currently:
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 12:25 PM Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:
Dear Bill,

thanks a lot for this project.

I am interested.

But mine looks a bit different (1 connector right of the cockpit drain, 3 (4) left, no connector behind the cockpit drain).
That is why I like to see it in advance.

Best regards and a Merry Christmas to all
Stefan
A 54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


 


Re: Secondary Saltwater Manifold SMs & 54s, and possibly some Santorins, Mangos, and Maramus

Stefan Schaufert
 

Dear Bill,

thanks a lot for this project.

I am interested.

But mine looks a bit different (1 connector right of the cockpit drain, 3 (4) left, no connector behind the cockpit drain).
That is why I like to see it in advance.

Best regards and a Merry Christmas to all
Stefan
A 54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


 


Re: Secondary Saltwater Manifold SMs & 54s, and possibly some Santorins, Mangos, and Maramus

Peter Tiner
 

Yes interested.

Thanks Bill

\Peter  SY Maiken A54 #52


Re: Secondary Saltwater Manifold SMs & 54s, and possibly some Santorins, Mangos, and Maramus

 

I have created some confusion regarding SMs. Early model SMs have only a Primary Saltwater Manifold. 
Later model SMs and all 54s have a Primary Saltwater Manifold and a Secondary Saltwater Manifold. 
At this time I am only working on the Secondary Saltwater Manifolds.  

image.png

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 8:30 AM Stefano Biffi <cptbiffi@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill, I am interested 
Ciao 

Stefano
N’EVEREST Super Maramu 185
Dry dock Magra river Italy 

Il giorno 14 dic 2020, alle ore 15:10, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> ha scritto:


We have done some measurements and have a solution for the SM. We are still working on the A-54. Hopefully, within a week, we will have a tentative solution for the A-54 and will release ordering information for both.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 6:41 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:
Hi Bill and Ameliens,

Interested...Thanks for your efforts on this project! 
I’m specially interested in the primary Manyfold.

Marry Christmas and Healthy New Year to everybody; stay save
Ruedi 
SY WASABI
A54 #55

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2020 um 17:10
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: [AmelYachtOwners] Secondary Saltwater Manifold SMs & 54s, and possibly some Santorins, Mangos, and Maramus

Most SM & 54 owners are aware that sooner or later they will need to replace the Secondary Saltwater Manifold which was made by Amel from copper pipe.
Here is a view of the original SM Secondary Saltwater Manifold:
<image.png>


There have been some very good after-market stainless steel manifolds produced by various sources including the one below made by Emek Marine for around 1,000 euro. The one below was installed on BeBe SM 387.
<image.png>


I have taken on the project to find the best replacement for this manifold. Many of you are aware that Amel has switched to a PVC manifold for saltwater distribution and eliminated both the Primary and Secondary Saltwater Manifolds that are common in SMs and 54s. The supplier to Amel is SOFOMARIN, France. I have been working with SOFOMARIN to design a suitable replacement for the Secondary Saltwater Manifold in SMs & 54s. What is shown below is 60cm wide and will fit all of the SM hoses and will work on the 54 by keeping one of the far left outlets closed and capped. All of the hose barb connectors included are an exact match to the original hoses used in SMs and 54s. If you are not in Europe, the 35mm hose barb on the right side is virtually impossible to find.
<image.png>


The above PVC manifold will cost around 350 euros from SOFOMARIN in France. Before I take this to the next level, I would like to see how much interest we have in this group. If any owner has the original copper Secondary Manifold, I believe you should consider this replacement. 

Please reply with "interested" if you are interested. 

Thanks, 

Bill
 
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


Re: A54 bow thruster seal replacement?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Perfect. I remember seeing photos before but couldn't remember where. Your pics and Bill's pics help immensely. 

Thank you. 

As an aside - our flexible coupling cracked after about 2 years. Did you have the same issue? 

Our bow thruster is much more powerful after the lithium upgrade because there is almost no voltage drop. Sleipner said that they spec theirs to expect 21-22 volts or thereabouts under load and we are closer to 24.5-25.

This may be a hidden "disadvantage" of lithium. 

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 00:25 Peter Tiner <peter.tiner@...> wrote:
Hi

If I understand you right you are about to take the lower part out. If so you need to put pressure onto the pipe and not onto the shaft. Use a thick walled pipe and a plate on top of that and then place the puller bolt onto the plate leaving the shaft untouched.
Please also see thread "Bow thruster motor switch" #54459.  There are some pics there and if you like I can send you more.
Good luck!

\Peter sy Maiken A54 #52


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Secondary Saltwater Manifold SMs & 54s, and possibly some Santorins, Mangos, and Maramus

Stefano Biffi
 

Thanks Bill, I am interested 
Ciao 

Stefano
N’EVEREST Super Maramu 185
Dry dock Magra river Italy 

Il giorno 14 dic 2020, alle ore 15:10, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> ha scritto:


We have done some measurements and have a solution for the SM. We are still working on the A-54. Hopefully, within a week, we will have a tentative solution for the A-54 and will release ordering information for both.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 6:41 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:
Hi Bill and Ameliens,

Interested...Thanks for your efforts on this project! 
I’m specially interested in the primary Manyfold.

Marry Christmas and Healthy New Year to everybody; stay save
Ruedi 
SY WASABI
A54 #55

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2020 um 17:10
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: [AmelYachtOwners] Secondary Saltwater Manifold SMs & 54s, and possibly some Santorins, Mangos, and Maramus

Most SM & 54 owners are aware that sooner or later they will need to replace the Secondary Saltwater Manifold which was made by Amel from copper pipe.
Here is a view of the original SM Secondary Saltwater Manifold:
<image.png>


There have been some very good after-market stainless steel manifolds produced by various sources including the one below made by Emek Marine for around 1,000 euro. The one below was installed on BeBe SM 387.
<image.png>


I have taken on the project to find the best replacement for this manifold. Many of you are aware that Amel has switched to a PVC manifold for saltwater distribution and eliminated both the Primary and Secondary Saltwater Manifolds that are common in SMs and 54s. The supplier to Amel is SOFOMARIN, France. I have been working with SOFOMARIN to design a suitable replacement for the Secondary Saltwater Manifold in SMs & 54s. What is shown below is 60cm wide and will fit all of the SM hoses and will work on the 54 by keeping one of the far left outlets closed and capped. All of the hose barb connectors included are an exact match to the original hoses used in SMs and 54s. If you are not in Europe, the 35mm hose barb on the right side is virtually impossible to find.
<image.png>


The above PVC manifold will cost around 350 euros from SOFOMARIN in France. Before I take this to the next level, I would like to see how much interest we have in this group. If any owner has the original copper Secondary Manifold, I believe you should consider this replacement. 

Please reply with "interested" if you are interested. 

Thanks, 

Bill
 
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

3561 - 3580 of 59198