Date   

Re: Yanmar no start.

Eric Freedman
 

Hi Dan,

Did you ever check the filter inside the fuel tank?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Carlson
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 1:52 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Yanmar no start.

 

Thanks all for the helpful tips which also provides great emotional support :-) Nothing like a hick-up with your main engine out at anchor to get a little anxiety up.

 

All appears good now.

 

I changed both racor filters which had both been used since last changed. The in-use racor had noticably more dirt on it.  I also changed the fuel filters on both the Yanmar and Onan as they were right at a year since last change and the Yanmar had over 400 hrs due to above normal use on the long haul from the Caribbean to Chesapeake Bay in May and back after hurricane season this November. 

 

Both engines started and ran fine. 

 

I can suspect that a lot of extra motoring/motor-sailing, often when beating to the windward could have contributed to added gunk load on the fuel filters.  Also, in the last couple months we have had six rollicking reaches back and forth between Antigua and Barbuda with only about 200 liters sloshing around in the fuel tank. They were all sailing except the final 45 min to an hour using stirred up fuel to get into the anchorage. And the we just refueled last week as well, immediately motor-sailing for over a hour around to our anchorage.  Plenty of reasons to stir up the tank and add load to the fuel filters.

 

A few additional points:

- there were no issues with the Onan (but now with the LiFePo batteries it only had 100 hours over the last year and I'm sure that will go down more with my added solar capacity)

- no signs of water in the Racor bowls, or fuel drained from either the Yanmar or Onan fuel filters. 

- Fuel filters are Racor, Yanmar and Onan OEM parts.

- last month when I was down to about 180 liters in the tank, I opened the rear tank inspection port and could clearly see to the bottom of the tank and it was clean stainless steel. Could still be a little gunk in the corners or far forward. 

- I have been using Howes fuel treatment the last due refuelings, as well as a Valvetech biocide since Cartegena in Jan of 2020 (due to concerns with the hot humid environments we we're sailing in and also concerns about potentially having to purchase fuel with some bio-diesel in it)

- changing the Yanmar fuel filter is one of my less favorite maintenance tasks. Yes it's pretty straight forward and thanks for Bill Rouse simple instructions, but it's always a bit messy and I don't like the smell of diesel in the engine room.

- right now I'm chalking it up to restricted fuel flow due to dirty filters, but I guess that I was surprised to see it show up suddenly at idle.

 

Fair winds to all, 

 

Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387, currently in Antigua

 

 

 

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 11:18 AM Karen Smith via groups.io <karenharmonie=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Daniel,

I don't have any amazing magic things to add to what others have said, but I would STRONGLY discourage you from fiddling with the idle speed adjustment on the injection pump.  The inability to run stably at normal idle speed is a symptom, not the first cause of a failure.

This is not like the mixture adjustment on your outboard carburetor. It does not control the fuel flow itself, rather it controls the set point of a speed governor than then in turn adjusts the fuel rack.  Adjusting the idle speed adjustment is not typically done as part of a repair, but is part of the set up of the injection pump.

If you can get the engine running at a stable speed (slower is easier for this test) it might be worth opening the nut on the injectors, one at a time.  When disconnected, each injector should have a similar effect on the speed/smoothness of operation.  If one has little or no effect, then that injector is likely bad or clogged.

Another trick that can help sort out things, put a piece of clear plastic tubing into the system just before the lift pump.  If you see bubbles flowing by when running then you know you have an air leak that needs fixing.  If you see only clear fuel flow, then you can check off everything upstream of this as OK.  With your fuel tank nearly full, I doubt this is the problem, but it helps to be sure.

Last thing, I might have missed this, but if not yet done, changing the secondary fuel filter on the engine would be a good idea.  Again, not a likely, but a possible, cause of this kind of problem. For this filter, I would recommend (if possible) using a Yanmar OEM filter.  Some of the aftermarket filters have smaller elements and add excess restriction to fuel flow, especially after then get a bit of dirt in them. Normally problems with this filter are seen at high speed, not idle, but you have checked most all the easy boxes, so the less likely ones are what is left.

Tracking down fuel system issues like this can be a pain, but it will work out.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Charleston, SC


Yanmar no start.

Eric Freedman
 

HI,

Do you have an alarm or idiot light indicating that there is water in the Yanmar engine mounted filter?

If you do not you do not need to use that water sensing float  and the special filter for that.

You can just change over to a regular (cheaper)  Yanmar filter without the wiring. On my old engine 4jh3hte with a “B’ Panel there was no need for the water float.

Changing that special filter with the wires attached was always a messy job.

 

My 2 cents with respect to your original problem is that the O ring in the Racor filter or the Yanmar fuel filter started to leak .

Stick with the Howes Meaner power cleaner. It is good for all situations.

I also use 2 micron filters in my Racor filters.

10 micron is suggested but the 2 micron works perfectly well.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Carlson
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2021 1:52 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Yanmar no start.

 

Thanks all for the helpful tips which also provides great emotional support :-) Nothing like a hick-up with your main engine out at anchor to get a little anxiety up.

 

All appears good now.

 

I changed both racor filters which had both been used since last changed. The in-use racor had noticably more dirt on it.  I also changed the fuel filters on both the Yanmar and Onan as they were right at a year since last change and the Yanmar had over 400 hrs due to above normal use on the long haul from the Caribbean to Chesapeake Bay in May and back after hurricane season this November. 

 

Both engines started and ran fine. 

 

I can suspect that a lot of extra motoring/motor-sailing, often when beating to the windward could have contributed to added gunk load on the fuel filters.  Also, in the last couple months we have had six rollicking reaches back and forth between Antigua and Barbuda with only about 200 liters sloshing around in the fuel tank. They were all sailing except the final 45 min to an hour using stirred up fuel to get into the anchorage. And the we just refueled last week as well, immediately motor-sailing for over a hour around to our anchorage.  Plenty of reasons to stir up the tank and add load to the fuel filters.

 

A few additional points:

- there were no issues with the Onan (but now with the LiFePo batteries it only had 100 hours over the last year and I'm sure that will go down more with my added solar capacity)

- no signs of water in the Racor bowls, or fuel drained from either the Yanmar or Onan fuel filters. 

- Fuel filters are Racor, Yanmar and Onan OEM parts.

- last month when I was down to about 180 liters in the tank, I opened the rear tank inspection port and could clearly see to the bottom of the tank and it was clean stainless steel. Could still be a little gunk in the corners or far forward. 

- I have been using Howes fuel treatment the last due refuelings, as well as a Valvetech biocide since Cartegena in Jan of 2020 (due to concerns with the hot humid environments we we're sailing in and also concerns about potentially having to purchase fuel with some bio-diesel in it)

- changing the Yanmar fuel filter is one of my less favorite maintenance tasks. Yes it's pretty straight forward and thanks for Bill Rouse simple instructions, but it's always a bit messy and I don't like the smell of diesel in the engine room.

- right now I'm chalking it up to restricted fuel flow due to dirty filters, but I guess that I was surprised to see it show up suddenly at idle.

 

Fair winds to all, 

 

Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387, currently in Antigua

 

 

 

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 11:18 AM Karen Smith via groups.io <karenharmonie=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Daniel,

I don't have any amazing magic things to add to what others have said, but I would STRONGLY discourage you from fiddling with the idle speed adjustment on the injection pump.  The inability to run stably at normal idle speed is a symptom, not the first cause of a failure.

This is not like the mixture adjustment on your outboard carburetor. It does not control the fuel flow itself, rather it controls the set point of a speed governor than then in turn adjusts the fuel rack.  Adjusting the idle speed adjustment is not typically done as part of a repair, but is part of the set up of the injection pump.

If you can get the engine running at a stable speed (slower is easier for this test) it might be worth opening the nut on the injectors, one at a time.  When disconnected, each injector should have a similar effect on the speed/smoothness of operation.  If one has little or no effect, then that injector is likely bad or clogged.

Another trick that can help sort out things, put a piece of clear plastic tubing into the system just before the lift pump.  If you see bubbles flowing by when running then you know you have an air leak that needs fixing.  If you see only clear fuel flow, then you can check off everything upstream of this as OK.  With your fuel tank nearly full, I doubt this is the problem, but it helps to be sure.

Last thing, I might have missed this, but if not yet done, changing the secondary fuel filter on the engine would be a good idea.  Again, not a likely, but a possible, cause of this kind of problem. For this filter, I would recommend (if possible) using a Yanmar OEM filter.  Some of the aftermarket filters have smaller elements and add excess restriction to fuel flow, especially after then get a bit of dirt in them. Normally problems with this filter are seen at high speed, not idle, but you have checked most all the easy boxes, so the less likely ones are what is left.

Tracking down fuel system issues like this can be a pain, but it will work out.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Charleston, SC


Re: How much Solar?

Dan Carlson
 

Hi Scott,

Thanks for your ongoing engagement in the Amel topics on the forum. Providing both your experiences as well as questions for others. 

Regarding AC capacity: I have 90 amps which is all I have found that I need at this time. I have the 230v water-maker and so I need to run the generator 2 to 3 hours per week for the water maker. That leaves me with extra generator capacity to also run the water heater and either 30 or 60 amps of charging. That is more that enough charging for any shortfall in solar that I have here in the Caribbean. I can't remember the last time I ran the generator just for battery charging. 
Regarding the water heater; I've been working on the best way to wire in a switch to be able to supply the 230v panel from the inverter I just need the right piece of faceplate for mounting the switch to be able to complete the job. So far we've not had a strong need, as I do heat water a few times a week when we run the water maker, and also when we run the main engine for an hour when moving the boat around between anchorages that creates a tank of hot water that lasts us almost three days here in the Caribbean.

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 1:23 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

In FP and Hawaii, we were averaging 5500-6000wh per day. Most I've seen is a handful of days approaching 7000wh. As Mark mentioned, we have a lifepo4 bank (2.5 years now) and that makes a huge difference as you can see when you compare my data to Porter's with similar solar output and similar environmental conditions. I'm sure you all see that once you take a lead battery above 80%, the charge acceptance drops like a rock. And worse, you're supposed to keep lead at high SOC to prevent sulfation so a lot of your solar output will be wasted. With my bank, the full output of the solar (or the 200amps of AC-powered charging) is taken up by the batteries until the upper 90% SOC. And I try to keep the batteries between say 50-80% to maximize longevity, so literally every watt is being put into the batteries.

Another thing that Mark didn't mention, but makes a huge difference is that lifepo4 charging is much more efficient than lead charging. With lead, you lose about 20-30% of your the charge current through inefficiencies. read: heat. With lifepo4 over 2.5 years I'm losing about 2-3%, based on the cumulative data on kWh in compared to kWh out that is provided by my Victron MPPT.

Billy - I suspect something is wrong with your battery monitor? We have 450ah and with 2 fridges and a freezer running, we drop about 8% overnight or 36AH. Not sure if you have water cooled fridges on the 55, but the homemade Frankenstein brushless pump (detailed in another post) has reduced power consumption considerably. Freezer is colder, too! You also stated that you figure about 5kw a day, which should be 5000/25.6v = 195AH, which sounds more realistic. Or are you running other items that we're not? In any event, I don't think your 750w on gel will be enough to eliminate genset usage most days if you are anything like us. 2 fridges plus a freezer and computers on, electric kettle, microwave and plus, the admiral has gotten addicted to Ozark, so the TV is on quite a bit. :) That said, we also run the water maker off our batteries and the 2.2kw scuba compressor if the batteries get too full. But I still suspect 750w on gel won't be enough.

Dan - have you considered adding more AC-based charging capacity? If you have to run the genset, since you have lithium, which can accept high currents, might as well add as much charging capacity to reduce genset runtimes. Your calculated figures on $/hr for genset usage frightened me into looking at more solar! And it's not just the money, I am consciously trying to reduce ongoing maintenance. With our 200amps charging capacity, on the rare instances we run the genset, it's almost always for less than an hour. I suggest rewiring that water heater. We do, in fact, run the water heater on battery/inverter. Our heater is only 700w and I run it for say 20 minutes prior to each shower, which gives me just enough hot water for 2 people.

Eric - no need to add extra ventilation, at least on our passage berth mounted batteries. I have monitored individual battery temps via bluetooth and they rarely get above 30c. They only get hot (40c or so) when I'm running AC-based chargers at 200amps and try to take them to 90%+ in order to balance out the batteries and help the battery monitor reset.

Justin - do you have the hardtop panels on a separate MPPT? Once you get on your boat, I am really really curious to know how many AH you get out of them, compared to your aft panels. Another boat we met in FP has 2kw of solar on their decks and they produce about the same kWH per day as we do with only 960w of arch mounted solar. Much of that inefficiency is probably related to shading, but if you look at the specs on most panels, the power output drops about 0.3-0.5% PER degree C increase over 25degC. I measured the panel temps on mine and it's not much above ambient since they get cooled by the breeze blowing underneath them. I would love to add them but it would be a lot of brain damage for me, so I want to make sure it's worth the effort or maybe I just accept I'll have to run the genset every few weeks.  

Ken is very right with the weight balance issue! I am sick of scrubbing the port side gelcoat! 

At the end of the day, energy is like money - the more you have, the more you use!


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Yanmar no start.

Dan Carlson
 

Thanks all for the helpful tips which also provides great emotional support :-) Nothing like a hick-up with your main engine out at anchor to get a little anxiety up.

All appears good now.

I changed both racor filters which had both been used since last changed. The in-use racor had noticably more dirt on it.  I also changed the fuel filters on both the Yanmar and Onan as they were right at a year since last change and the Yanmar had over 400 hrs due to above normal use on the long haul from the Caribbean to Chesapeake Bay in May and back after hurricane season this November. 

Both engines started and ran fine. 

I can suspect that a lot of extra motoring/motor-sailing, often when beating to the windward could have contributed to added gunk load on the fuel filters.  Also, in the last couple months we have had six rollicking reaches back and forth between Antigua and Barbuda with only about 200 liters sloshing around in the fuel tank. They were all sailing except the final 45 min to an hour using stirred up fuel to get into the anchorage. And the we just refueled last week as well, immediately motor-sailing for over a hour around to our anchorage.  Plenty of reasons to stir up the tank and add load to the fuel filters.

A few additional points:
- there were no issues with the Onan (but now with the LiFePo batteries it only had 100 hours over the last year and I'm sure that will go down more with my added solar capacity)
- no signs of water in the Racor bowls, or fuel drained from either the Yanmar or Onan fuel filters. 
- Fuel filters are Racor, Yanmar and Onan OEM parts.
- last month when I was down to about 180 liters in the tank, I opened the rear tank inspection port and could clearly see to the bottom of the tank and it was clean stainless steel. Could still be a little gunk in the corners or far forward. 
- I have been using Howes fuel treatment the last due refuelings, as well as a Valvetech biocide since Cartegena in Jan of 2020 (due to concerns with the hot humid environments we we're sailing in and also concerns about potentially having to purchase fuel with some bio-diesel in it)
- changing the Yanmar fuel filter is one of my less favorite maintenance tasks. Yes it's pretty straight forward and thanks for Bill Rouse simple instructions, but it's always a bit messy and I don't like the smell of diesel in the engine room.
- right now I'm chalking it up to restricted fuel flow due to dirty filters, but I guess that I was surprised to see it show up suddenly at idle.

Fair winds to all, 

Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387, currently in Antigua



On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 11:18 AM Karen Smith via groups.io <karenharmonie=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Daniel,

I don't have any amazing magic things to add to what others have said, but I would STRONGLY discourage you from fiddling with the idle speed adjustment on the injection pump.  The inability to run stably at normal idle speed is a symptom, not the first cause of a failure.

This is not like the mixture adjustment on your outboard carburetor. It does not control the fuel flow itself, rather it controls the set point of a speed governor than then in turn adjusts the fuel rack.  Adjusting the idle speed adjustment is not typically done as part of a repair, but is part of the set up of the injection pump.

If you can get the engine running at a stable speed (slower is easier for this test) it might be worth opening the nut on the injectors, one at a time.  When disconnected, each injector should have a similar effect on the speed/smoothness of operation.  If one has little or no effect, then that injector is likely bad or clogged.

Another trick that can help sort out things, put a piece of clear plastic tubing into the system just before the lift pump.  If you see bubbles flowing by when running then you know you have an air leak that needs fixing.  If you see only clear fuel flow, then you can check off everything upstream of this as OK.  With your fuel tank nearly full, I doubt this is the problem, but it helps to be sure.

Last thing, I might have missed this, but if not yet done, changing the secondary fuel filter on the engine would be a good idea.  Again, not a likely, but a possible, cause of this kind of problem. For this filter, I would recommend (if possible) using a Yanmar OEM filter.  Some of the aftermarket filters have smaller elements and add excess restriction to fuel flow, especially after then get a bit of dirt in them. Normally problems with this filter are seen at high speed, not idle, but you have checked most all the easy boxes, so the less likely ones are what is left.

Tracking down fuel system issues like this can be a pain, but it will work out.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Charleston, SC


Re: Solid cockpit roof on Super Maramu

Alain Blanchard <akdf85@...>
 

Dear all

I Just bought Koriolys with this Hard top.


Alain
SM 146
Grui(France)
Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 4 févr. 2021 à 22:30, michael winand via groups.io <mfw642000@...> a écrit :

Thanks for your very detailed response, we are very interested in going to a hard top next time we have to replace the bimini.
Michael  Elaine. Nebo 


On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 11:25 pm, Ann-Sofie
<ann-sofie@...> wrote:

Hi Michael

To build a new roof from scratch is probably easier than renovate one. To shape the roof use either polyurethan insulation plates or Divinycell sheets and then laminate with 2-3 layers of epoxi and grp matt.
After that its time to shape the rail which is done using polyurethan insulation plates in small pieces, when the shape is ok, laminate the rail with 1 layer epoxi and grp matt.
Sand the roof and then put on epoxi filler to get a smooth surface, sand. 

Mill lines for cables and lights. Fill the space above the cables to create a smooth surface.

Paint with 2-component paint (International Perfection as one example) primer, 2 layers and sand. 2 or more layers of top paint Perfection.

How long time for this production, probably around 100-200 hours, much depending on the place of work. For us it took far more but much of that was down to the renovation part. 

Hope this will give you a hint of producing one your self.  Feel free to come back if you have any questions.

Regards,
Jonas

Den 2021-02-02 kl. 22:34, skrev michael winand via groups.io:
Thanks for sharing.  Could you please advise on the approximate hours to construct your own?
Thanks, Michael, Nebo sm251 


On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 2:53 am, Ann-Sofie
As per request we have made a short film about our cockpit roof on our SuperMaramu S/Y Lady Annila.
Please follow this URL https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i9dzki9zbz2s4mv/AAA1Nv70ovxLvpMuDCQHAUG1a?dl=0

Regards
Annsofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232, 1998
Present in Algarve, Portugal
-- 
Ann-Sofie Svanberg
Edificio Pluma
Rua Teofilo Braga 17-6a
8500-668 Portimao
Portugal

00351-914 879 021


Re: Yanmar no start.

Karen Smith
 

Daniel,

I don't have any amazing magic things to add to what others have said, but I would STRONGLY discourage you from fiddling with the idle speed adjustment on the injection pump.  The inability to run stably at normal idle speed is a symptom, not the first cause of a failure.

This is not like the mixture adjustment on your outboard carburetor. It does not control the fuel flow itself, rather it controls the set point of a speed governor than then in turn adjusts the fuel rack.  Adjusting the idle speed adjustment is not typically done as part of a repair, but is part of the set up of the injection pump.

If you can get the engine running at a stable speed (slower is easier for this test) it might be worth opening the nut on the injectors, one at a time.  When disconnected, each injector should have a similar effect on the speed/smoothness of operation.  If one has little or no effect, then that injector is likely bad or clogged.

Another trick that can help sort out things, put a piece of clear plastic tubing into the system just before the lift pump.  If you see bubbles flowing by when running then you know you have an air leak that needs fixing.  If you see only clear fuel flow, then you can check off everything upstream of this as OK.  With your fuel tank nearly full, I doubt this is the problem, but it helps to be sure.

Last thing, I might have missed this, but if not yet done, changing the secondary fuel filter on the engine would be a good idea.  Again, not a likely, but a possible, cause of this kind of problem. For this filter, I would recommend (if possible) using a Yanmar OEM filter.  Some of the aftermarket filters have smaller elements and add excess restriction to fuel flow, especially after then get a bit of dirt in them. Normally problems with this filter are seen at high speed, not idle, but you have checked most all the easy boxes, so the less likely ones are what is left.

Tracking down fuel system issues like this can be a pain, but it will work out.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Charleston, SC


Re: Amel wanted

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Here The link to Möck Yachtargecy 


I by Balu in 2015 by Mrs Möck 
Verry similar with Amel 

Best 
Elja SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: How much Solar?

Billy Newport
 
Edited

My last boat, I had 1200w of solar and each panel had its own mppt controller. I think I had 16 controllers, genasun typically with 2 victrons for the largest panels. Besides the insane wiring, I got 90A@12v out of that peak and it managed shade very well but that was expensive to do.

Here is a link to a phot album on Google of that boat.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YZv6xncC821Rquqn8


Re: Amel wanted

JB Duler
 

I reached out to Michel Charpentier last year as I was looking for boats in the Med.

He put me in touch with the Encasta folks (I think they bought him out). I was from impressed by the Encasta broker, total waste of time.

Understand brokers, they are salespeople paid on a commission basis.

But some brokers are exceptional (Joel Potter!), and you can figure that out within 5’.

Another value a broker brings is E&O (or errors and omissions) / professional liability insurance coverage. Do not be afraid to get a copy of their certificate of insurance.
On that document I would look at the limit: $1M is a minimum, $2-5M is better (if they sell bigger boats), and the name of the insurance company. Then look up the name of that insurance on AM Best.

Good insurance company (=A rated, enough capital, part of a big company): great

Bad insurance company (= B rating from AM Best, not enough capital, non admitted coverage, some Lloyds syndicates): red flag. Why? They may have had claims in the past, can’t get coverage from a good company, and they fall back on second tier companies.

Good luck!

On Feb 5, 2021, at 03:54, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:

Michel Charpentier is who put me together with our boat as well. Very very simple, trustworthy, defo look him up. 


--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Yanmar no start.

 

Hallo Daniel 
There are so many possible causes:
Here just some ideas to consider:
Did you Check the Air Filter? May be your Machine does Not get enough Air?

And, when it is running, what is the Color of the smoke/exhaust like?
More White than normal, and too less water circulation impeller Not okay,   
More Black than normal, the bearings ?/dichtungen, valves are Not tight
More blue than normal: Maybe the turbo charger is not tight or dirty?

Or, you got Bad Gasolina? Maybe diesel bacterias? There are cleaning products From liqui moly

Or, just as a last try before it does not Start : spray a Bit of Start Pilot into the carburator, but not too often, it may damage the machine.   

 Best wishes.
Goetz
SM #200 (PARSIFAL, actually in canarias) and succes.    


Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android



Von: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Februar 2021, 21:37
An: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Yanmar no start.

Thanks for the tips Bill and Steve,

I tried to trouble shoot the solenoid by having Lori actuate the stop button on the console while I monitored for the clicking down at the engine.  That sounded normal. I tried to start and again it cranked but did not catch.  But it sounded like it was just getting some combustion at the end, so one more try and it slowly caught and when I gave it some slight throttle in neutral it picked up. I ran it for 15  minutes at 1700 rpm to get to temperature. It had a little bit of load from the alternator, charging the Li batteries. After it reached temp I switched the alternator regulator to "float"/ no load, ran the rpms slowly up to 2500 and back down to 1000 rpm. After a minute there I put the throttle back to the idle position and the rpms decreased to about 500 and then the engine stopped. So it seems like I have a low rpm idle setting or fuel flow issue at idle. I think I can adjust the idle up slightly, but that doesn't account for the change in performance of the engine, both the unexpected stopping as well as the difficult starting. (I've never had to apply any throttle when starting in the past.)

Steve, I'm not sure if I can test that small of a change in the fuel pump performance on the boat. 

Also, the fuel injectors were rebuilt and the valves adjusted a a little less than two hundred hours ago. 

Does that trigger any more ideas? 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387.


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 4:23 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
My 8 Ball Crystal Ball says, "Check Back Later"😀

I wonder if the fuel flow stop solenoid or the stop button is not working and cutting off fuel?


image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 1:03 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Hello Yanmar diesel gurus.

Our Yanmar 4Jh3-HTE has never missed a beat, until today.

Engine started fine and operated for 30-40 mins to lift anchor exit anchorage and get underway. Mostly at 1200-1500rpm.  Normal shutdown, with a short rev to approx 2500rmp before return to idle for a minute or two then shutdown.  Temp and oil pressure all normal.

After approx 1 hr sail to next anchorage engine started fine and operated at approx 1500 rpm for 15 minutes into anchorage then idling while anchoring for approx 5 mins, 1200-1300rpm to back down anchor, then after a short idle another rev to approx 2800 rpm then return to idle. When the engine rpms returned to idle the engine just stopped.  After thinking through everything that just happened I attempted to restart the engine and it did not catch after approx 3-5 seconds of cranking.  

We had lunch and allowed the engine to cool for a little over an hour. I checked coolent level, oil level, fuel in racor, looked over the engine and then attempted to start with no luck.  Next I pumped the fuel priming pump on top of the filter a few times but I did not bleed any fuel out.  I attempted to start two more times with approximately 5 seconds of cranking each time with no success. No indication of any firing. 

Finally: I drained about 1/4 cup of clean fuel from the bottom of the fuel filter, then loosened the fuel bleed valve and pumped some more fuel out of the bleed valve. It did not appear that there was any noticable air in the system.  Cleaned up and retried with Lori cranking for 5 seconds while I pumped the priming pump. No success.

Fuel tank has over 500 liters.

I thought I'd  check in with other Amel owners to get inputs on the next steps for troubleshooting. 

Advice appreciated.

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387



Re: Amel wanted

 

Alex,

Although I believe your intentions were genuine, your posting is against our posting policy. I am going to remove this posting. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 6:13 AM Alexandre Uster von Baar via groups.io <uster=rocketmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Unfortunately, I NO LONGER can recommend Mr Charpentier. 

It is a bit long to read, but worth it.  

For those who speak French, there is the original transcript.  


Introduction: 

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT and SM2K #246 Agapanthe were destroyed during Hurricane Irma (Sept 2017) in Sint Maarten.  

Both vessels were considered by the insurance as “total loss”.   

A total loss means that it is more expensive to repair the boat than its market value.  


Being on the island I took many pictures of Aganpathe which I send them to Rafael (the owner in Chile).  

http://supermaramu2000.com/agapanthe/

Agapanthe did not sink, (only water intake from broken hatches), was demasted and the hull severely damages.  

I showed the pictures to friends (Amel owner and not) it was obvious the vessel could never be repaired to its original quality.  


As time went by, Rafael and I became friends (fight against the same insurance, etc.) I visited him in Santiago, Chile in 2019 and so on.  


In April 2020 (so 10 months ago), he contacted me saying his boat was for sale in France…. We were stunned.  


I went on Yachtworld, found his boat (same name, showing Hull #246).  


Next day, I decided to contact the broker, play ignorant and ask if that vessel had any damages…. 

By MISTAKE, I contacted the WRONG broker…. I emailed Mr Michel Charpentier.  


FACTS:

Here are the screenshot of the conversation -  starting from the bottom my question:  

Do you know the history of this boat?

Did she had damages (accident, etc.)?

Sincerely, Alexandre


His answer stunned me…. 

No damage, no accident

Boat in good structural condition

A new Genoa would be a good idea, as well as fuller motor maintenance.  

Sincerely MC


I could not believe that a broker I used to trust and recommend could write such reply:

Sorry, I sent to the wrong person (wrong boat).  

Boat destroyed during Hurricane Irma at Anse Marcel, Saint Martin, considered as a wreck by the insurance. 

I would have been surprised you represent such boat… 

Sincerely, Alexandre


His reply:

I visited the boat which is very well repaired.  They used the mats from another Super Maramu who sung, le Nikkimat. 

I would not be afraid to purchase such boat. 

The owner is a professional of boating.

Everything is a question of price. 


My reply

I owned Nikimat.  

I saw Agapanthe, (I am a friend of Raphel, the former owner), at the time I sent the pictures to surveyors/experts (especially the damages on the starboard side)…. The conclusion was that it would never be again an Amel, impossible to obtain a “Certificate of Navigation”, etc.  

The insurance said clearly it was a wreck.  

So even if purchased for 10.000, even if this Mr Philipe had the mast for free… I doubt.  

Personally, I think it is very important that the potential buyers are aware of the damages this boat had..like a plane who had an accident and was repaired.  And the price has to be proportional, which is not the case.  


His reply:

It is obvious that the owner will be informed by the accident.

Obvious that the price will be less.

But it is really well repaired.  

Sincerely Michel.

PS: I was contacted by Rafael.  



What a change of reply from starting with: 

No damage, no accident

Boat in good structural condition

Then when confronted with the reality, admitting he knew very well how Agapanthe was patched taking masts from Nikimat, etc.  

I don’t think he had any intention to ever reveal the boat had an accident.  



They are other people who contacted Mr Charpentier (knowing the full story) and receive similar reply, I hope they share their experience on the forum…. 


Sincerely, Alexandre

Former owner of NIKIMAT. 

Still in Sint Maarten.  



On Friday, February 5, 2021, 05:07:36 AM CST, Trevor Lusty <trevlusty@...> wrote:


Dear Julie,
                I have both purchased and sold a SM through Michel Charpentier and found him to be excellent, extremely knowledge, realistic, and of the highest integrity.
Good luck with your search.
Trevor Lusty
Ireland


Re: How much Solar?

Chantal & Alain sv Makemo
 

Hi Ken,

Thank you for sharing your positive experience with LifePo4 batteries.
Would you be kind to answer 2 questions about this marvelous change?
what did you change in your charger/ converter equipment Coming from AGM or Gel batteries ?

Regarding the cost of your 600Ah LifePo4, this is incredible to me (European) while I am trying to find the best price offered on the web w/o considering at this stage I would have to buy from the West Indies probably much expensive units. Where did you buy yours?

thanks so much for the great experience again
cheers
Alain
sv Makemo


Re: Amel wanted

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Michel Charpentier is who put me together with our boat as well. Very very simple, trustworthy, defo look him up. 


Re: Amel wanted

Trevor Lusty
 

Dear Julie,
                I have both purchased and sold a SM through Michel Charpentier and found him to be excellent, extremely knowledge, realistic, and of the highest integrity.
Good luck with your search.
Trevor Lusty
Ireland


Amel wanted

Julia Sloman
 

We are looking to buy an A54 (or possibly a late model SM) in Europe. Please reach out if you are contemplating selling and we are not already in contact. Thanks.


Re: How much Solar?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Justin,

We wired the arch panels in parallel to a junction box in the lazarette and then a pair of wires to one MPPT so theoretically they're more tolerant of partial shading. Ideally I have 3 MPPTs for the 3 panels but damn, that's a lot of wiring!

Do let us know how much relative power you get from the various panels. Even if our environmental conditions are different, the relative output should give us an idea of how effective surface mounted panels are vs. their output ratings. BTW - I am from the Bay Area, too, so I understand fog will have a bit of an impact on your output. :)

Good luck!

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 6:00 AM Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:

Scott –

 

The hard top panels are on a separate MPPT, and I definitely don’t expect them to perform to their “rating” per the heat challenge that all flush mounted panels have… the question will be just how much. As I mentioned, other Amel 50 owners have mounted up to a 1000w on the davits… I know I can eventually go to that but wanted to see what my real world performance was with 600 on the davits and the 575 on the roof… what I don’t know is if each panel on the rear has it’s own MPPT controller…

 

One thing I’m also trying to balance is needing to run the gen-set just enough to keep it happy… 😊

With the full induction galley (yay! No propane or waste heat), and an already power hungry boat like the Amel, I’m very curious to see how she plays out. Either way, your numbers give me hope.

 

I’m just over 2 years from quitting the job and pushing off, so I’ve got some time to sort out the boat, get to know her, and make any mods before then. I’ll get to spend 3 months this summer in new England cruising her (and working from her)… and then I’ll be shipping her back to the west coast (SFO – home is Sausalito)… once she’s back in the bay area I’ll have just over a year before leaving to make any final mods and set the last of my life in motion…

 

So much learning from all of you.

Thank you for your wisdom and example!

 


Cheers,

-Justin

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Scott SV Tengah
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:23 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] How much Solar?

 

Hi everyone,

In FP and Hawaii, we were averaging 5500-6000wh per day. Most I've seen is a handful of days approaching 7000wh. As Mark mentioned, we have a lifepo4 bank (2.5 years now) and that makes a huge difference as you can see when you compare my data to Porter's with similar solar output and similar environmental conditions. I'm sure you all see that once you take a lead battery above 80%, the charge acceptance drops like a rock. And worse, you're supposed to keep lead at high SOC to prevent sulfation so a lot of your solar output will be wasted. With my bank, the full output of the solar (or the 200amps of AC-powered charging) is taken up by the batteries until the upper 90% SOC. And I try to keep the batteries between say 50-80% to maximize longevity, so literally every watt is being put into the batteries.

Another thing that Mark didn't mention, but makes a huge difference is that lifepo4 charging is much more efficient than lead charging. With lead, you lose about 20-30% of your the charge current through inefficiencies. read: heat. With lifepo4 over 2.5 years I'm losing about 2-3%, based on the cumulative data on kWh in compared to kWh out that is provided by my Victron MPPT.

Billy - I suspect something is wrong with your battery monitor? We have 450ah and with 2 fridges and a freezer running, we drop about 8% overnight or 36AH. Not sure if you have water cooled fridges on the 55, but the homemade Frankenstein brushless pump (detailed in another post) has reduced power consumption considerably. Freezer is colder, too! You also stated that you figure about 5kw a day, which should be 5000/25.6v = 195AH, which sounds more realistic. Or are you running other items that we're not? In any event, I don't think your 750w on gel will be enough to eliminate genset usage most days if you are anything like us. 2 fridges plus a freezer and computers on, electric kettle, microwave and plus, the admiral has gotten addicted to Ozark, so the TV is on quite a bit. :) That said, we also run the water maker off our batteries and the 2.2kw scuba compressor if the batteries get too full. But I still suspect 750w on gel won't be enough.

Dan - have you considered adding more AC-based charging capacity? If you have to run the genset, since you have lithium, which can accept high currents, might as well add as much charging capacity to reduce genset runtimes. Your calculated figures on $/hr for genset usage frightened me into looking at more solar! And it's not just the money, I am consciously trying to reduce ongoing maintenance. With our 200amps charging capacity, on the rare instances we run the genset, it's almost always for less than an hour. I suggest rewiring that water heater. We do, in fact, run the water heater on battery/inverter. Our heater is only 700w and I run it for say 20 minutes prior to each shower, which gives me just enough hot water for 2 people.

Eric - no need to add extra ventilation, at least on our passage berth mounted batteries. I have monitored individual battery temps via bluetooth and they rarely get above 30c. They only get hot (40c or so) when I'm running AC-based chargers at 200amps and try to take them to 90%+ in order to balance out the batteries and help the battery monitor reset.

Justin - do you have the hardtop panels on a separate MPPT? Once you get on your boat, I am really really curious to know how many AH you get out of them, compared to your aft panels. Another boat we met in FP has 2kw of solar on their decks and they produce about the same kWH per day as we do with only 960w of arch mounted solar. Much of that inefficiency is probably related to shading, but if you look at the specs on most panels, the power output drops about 0.3-0.5% PER degree C increase over 25degC. I measured the panel temps on mine and it's not much above ambient since they get cooled by the breeze blowing underneath them. I would love to add them but it would be a lot of brain damage for me, so I want to make sure it's worth the effort or maybe I just accept I'll have to run the genset every few weeks.  

Ken is very right with the weight balance issue! I am sick of scrubbing the port side gelcoat! 

At the end of the day, energy is like money - the more you have, the more you use!


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: How much Solar?

Justin Maguire
 

Scott –

 

The hard top panels are on a separate MPPT, and I definitely don’t expect them to perform to their “rating” per the heat challenge that all flush mounted panels have… the question will be just how much. As I mentioned, other Amel 50 owners have mounted up to a 1000w on the davits… I know I can eventually go to that but wanted to see what my real world performance was with 600 on the davits and the 575 on the roof… what I don’t know is if each panel on the rear has it’s own MPPT controller…

 

One thing I’m also trying to balance is needing to run the gen-set just enough to keep it happy… 😊

With the full induction galley (yay! No propane or waste heat), and an already power hungry boat like the Amel, I’m very curious to see how she plays out. Either way, your numbers give me hope.

 

I’m just over 2 years from quitting the job and pushing off, so I’ve got some time to sort out the boat, get to know her, and make any mods before then. I’ll get to spend 3 months this summer in new England cruising her (and working from her)… and then I’ll be shipping her back to the west coast (SFO – home is Sausalito)… once she’s back in the bay area I’ll have just over a year before leaving to make any final mods and set the last of my life in motion…

 

So much learning from all of you.

Thank you for your wisdom and example!

 


Cheers,

-Justin

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Scott SV Tengah
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:23 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] How much Solar?

 

Hi everyone,

In FP and Hawaii, we were averaging 5500-6000wh per day. Most I've seen is a handful of days approaching 7000wh. As Mark mentioned, we have a lifepo4 bank (2.5 years now) and that makes a huge difference as you can see when you compare my data to Porter's with similar solar output and similar environmental conditions. I'm sure you all see that once you take a lead battery above 80%, the charge acceptance drops like a rock. And worse, you're supposed to keep lead at high SOC to prevent sulfation so a lot of your solar output will be wasted. With my bank, the full output of the solar (or the 200amps of AC-powered charging) is taken up by the batteries until the upper 90% SOC. And I try to keep the batteries between say 50-80% to maximize longevity, so literally every watt is being put into the batteries.

Another thing that Mark didn't mention, but makes a huge difference is that lifepo4 charging is much more efficient than lead charging. With lead, you lose about 20-30% of your the charge current through inefficiencies. read: heat. With lifepo4 over 2.5 years I'm losing about 2-3%, based on the cumulative data on kWh in compared to kWh out that is provided by my Victron MPPT.

Billy - I suspect something is wrong with your battery monitor? We have 450ah and with 2 fridges and a freezer running, we drop about 8% overnight or 36AH. Not sure if you have water cooled fridges on the 55, but the homemade Frankenstein brushless pump (detailed in another post) has reduced power consumption considerably. Freezer is colder, too! You also stated that you figure about 5kw a day, which should be 5000/25.6v = 195AH, which sounds more realistic. Or are you running other items that we're not? In any event, I don't think your 750w on gel will be enough to eliminate genset usage most days if you are anything like us. 2 fridges plus a freezer and computers on, electric kettle, microwave and plus, the admiral has gotten addicted to Ozark, so the TV is on quite a bit. :) That said, we also run the water maker off our batteries and the 2.2kw scuba compressor if the batteries get too full. But I still suspect 750w on gel won't be enough.

Dan - have you considered adding more AC-based charging capacity? If you have to run the genset, since you have lithium, which can accept high currents, might as well add as much charging capacity to reduce genset runtimes. Your calculated figures on $/hr for genset usage frightened me into looking at more solar! And it's not just the money, I am consciously trying to reduce ongoing maintenance. With our 200amps charging capacity, on the rare instances we run the genset, it's almost always for less than an hour. I suggest rewiring that water heater. We do, in fact, run the water heater on battery/inverter. Our heater is only 700w and I run it for say 20 minutes prior to each shower, which gives me just enough hot water for 2 people.

Eric - no need to add extra ventilation, at least on our passage berth mounted batteries. I have monitored individual battery temps via bluetooth and they rarely get above 30c. They only get hot (40c or so) when I'm running AC-based chargers at 200amps and try to take them to 90%+ in order to balance out the batteries and help the battery monitor reset.

Justin - do you have the hardtop panels on a separate MPPT? Once you get on your boat, I am really really curious to know how many AH you get out of them, compared to your aft panels. Another boat we met in FP has 2kw of solar on their decks and they produce about the same kWH per day as we do with only 960w of arch mounted solar. Much of that inefficiency is probably related to shading, but if you look at the specs on most panels, the power output drops about 0.3-0.5% PER degree C increase over 25degC. I measured the panel temps on mine and it's not much above ambient since they get cooled by the breeze blowing underneath them. I would love to add them but it would be a lot of brain damage for me, so I want to make sure it's worth the effort or maybe I just accept I'll have to run the genset every few weeks.  

Ken is very right with the weight balance issue! I am sick of scrubbing the port side gelcoat! 

At the end of the day, energy is like money - the more you have, the more you use!


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 


Re: Solid cockpit roof on Super Maramu

michael winand
 

Thanks for your very detailed response, we are very interested in going to a hard top next time we have to replace the bimini.
Michael  Elaine. Nebo 


On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 11:25 pm, Ann-Sofie
<ann-sofie@...> wrote:

Hi Michael

To build a new roof from scratch is probably easier than renovate one. To shape the roof use either polyurethan insulation plates or Divinycell sheets and then laminate with 2-3 layers of epoxi and grp matt.
After that its time to shape the rail which is done using polyurethan insulation plates in small pieces, when the shape is ok, laminate the rail with 1 layer epoxi and grp matt.
Sand the roof and then put on epoxi filler to get a smooth surface, sand. 

Mill lines for cables and lights. Fill the space above the cables to create a smooth surface.

Paint with 2-component paint (International Perfection as one example) primer, 2 layers and sand. 2 or more layers of top paint Perfection.

How long time for this production, probably around 100-200 hours, much depending on the place of work. For us it took far more but much of that was down to the renovation part. 

Hope this will give you a hint of producing one your self.  Feel free to come back if you have any questions.

Regards,
Jonas

Den 2021-02-02 kl. 22:34, skrev michael winand via groups.io:
Thanks for sharing.  Could you please advise on the approximate hours to construct your own?
Thanks, Michael, Nebo sm251 


On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 2:53 am, Ann-Sofie
As per request we have made a short film about our cockpit roof on our SuperMaramu S/Y Lady Annila.
Please follow this URL https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i9dzki9zbz2s4mv/AAA1Nv70ovxLvpMuDCQHAUG1a?dl=0

Regards
Annsofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232, 1998
Present in Algarve, Portugal
-- 
Ann-Sofie Svanberg
Edificio Pluma
Rua Teofilo Braga 17-6a
8500-668 Portimao
Portugal

00351-914 879 021


Re: Yanmar no start.

Thomas Kleman
 

Dan- does the genset run normally or not ?

Obviously this tells you a lot about the location of the problem.

Assuming the genset runs normally, I would check every fuel line connection from the tank to the injection pump (they can come loose).

If the genset doesn't run normally you might have bad fuel or Eric friedman's problem with the mesh filter inside the tank. He fixed it with compressed air.

Hope it's not the yanmar fuel pump.

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM2K 422


𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮 𝗖𝗮𝗹𝗽𝗲𝗱𝗮 𝗣𝘂𝗺𝗽 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗺𝗲𝗰𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗶𝗰𝗮𝗹 𝘀𝗲𝗮𝗹 𝗰𝗮𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮 𝗴𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱 𝗳𝗮𝘂𝗹𝘁

 

Peter,

Here are a few more things that may help. Here are 4 pages out of the newest version of the Amel Book
Here is a Video for Disassembly of the motor: https://youtu.be/CczwUotFnSE

My conclusion based on what you have said:
Saltwater has probably gotten into the Stator Winding and the Rotor (see below). It is possible that cleaning will solve the ground fault. It is important for every Amel owner to keep a watchful eye on the AC Pump. Your Amel, when new, was equipped with a Calpeda seawater pump for the Air Conditioning. It is a very well-made and long-lasting pump. The Calpeda pump, like almost other compatible brands, has an internal mechanical seal. Calpeda places a "Slinger Washer" on the shaft between the pump body and the motor that will hopefully sling leaking seawater away from the shaft and therefore keep it out of the motor. I have been on a number of Amels and found a telltale line of salt from the Slinger Washer (photo below). When the internal mechanical seal wears out, that Slinger Washer will only work for a short time, days maybe weeks before seawater enters the electric motor. The first signs of a problem will be slight wetness around the pump area, followed by a ground fault tripping the internal breaker on the side of the 220 panel and/or the breaker on the shore power pedestal in the marina. In the following photo (sorry about the quality) do you see the thin line of rust that is aligned with the opening to the Calpeda Slinger Washer?

image.png

Typical Calpeda Motor:
image.png


image.png

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

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