Date   

Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Matti Lohikoski
 

Hi Davi, in some similar land problems duct tape helps the grip. Putting tension on the parts and e.g. drill hammer (no drill but say 13mm peace of rod) you can "drill" the steel part and make it vibrate. Has been helping in some stuck parts you cannot really heat.

Matti Lohikoski SM#398



Re: How much Solar?

Scott SV Tengah
 

As Ken mentions, I think it's important that everyone thoroughly understands how their BMS works on THEIR SYSTEM. This is one of the reasons why I think lithium is challenging: most electricians simply don't understand all the implications well enough. They've been playing with lead too long and they haven't had to think through the implications of this new technology (that happens to be almost 30 years old, haha).

For our Victron BMS, an overvoltage/overtemp condition does not disconnect the batteries. What Victron does is turn off charging. Our Victron chargers (AC-based and solar) receive a signal to stop charging and immediately do so. On our A54, the Amel-spec Mastervolt alternator was an issue at first. We needed a way to convert the BMS's "stop charging" signal to tell the Mastervolt to cease charging, safely. Luckily Mastervolt has a reg-on wire that safely tells the alternator to cease charging without causing any damage to the alternator. I detailed it on another post - I think it's on my original thread on my experience living with lithium.

On the 54, that reg-on wire (as named in MV literature) literally turns the external charge regulator off. And it does it in a way that is safe - in fact, the instructions say you can wire a switch into that circuit in order to turn off the alternator in the event you want more power out of your engine. That means having the BMS disconnect it should be similarly safe.

Note this is all for my Victron smart lithium battery, Victron BMS, Victron Solar/AC-charger, Mastervolt alternator (with Alpha Pro 2 or greater alternator regulator) system. This Sterling device may be useful if your system doesn't operate the same way mine does, I cannot say for sure. In my opinion: don't trust your electrician to figure it out, understand how the system works yourself. 

On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 7:30 PM Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Regarding spike back protection, I think it best to explain why.....  Everyone should understand the protection parameters of their battery's BMS.  The BMS is there to protect your batteries, from High Voltage, Low Voltage, Over Current, Low Temperature, and High Temperature.  The BMS protections vary greatly between brands , but that should do it for most.  So, lets say your Alternator is charging at 28.4V,  that's great if the BMS's High Voltage shut of is at 29.2V.  But, what if you have a spike in the alternator's charging voltage (above 29.2V), or some type of failure in the battery's BMS...... your BMS will turn the battery off, and then your Alternator is instantaneously looking into an open circuit.  AND, You just smoked your Alternator.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03SQMDnY6O0

This device should help anytime BMS shuts down your batteries, including your Victron Charger would feel less stress when the BMS does it's job.

In theory the $99 device Bill mentioned should save the alternator in this scenario.  I didn't think about this, but this device makes a lot of sense.  

Thanks Bill!

Ken Powers
Aquarius
SM2K262


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Scott SV Tengah
 

Mark and Mark,

On our A54 #69, the old RG58 was in fact hard wired to the Banten antenna. The easy solution if you want to do it CP's suggested method is to just cut the old rg58 at the antennaand tape the new cable to the old. Of course once you cut it, you're committed, so you better hope that the tape doesn't come apart! As an aside, I believe Amel chose a one piece antenna/cable combo to keep the mast/riggingisolated from the bonding system as they used to do pre-2009. Once you install a different antenna and put a PL-259 on it (self amalgamating tape and electrical tape it well after installation!), the PL-259 "outer part", via the ground foil, will connect to the case of the VHF and the case of the VHF is bonded. I am fine with that because Amel has decided to do that on all post-2009 Amels. In our case, this change caused the Masse-neg light to glow brightly since we had a neg leak via the bow nav lights that I had previously been unaware of. Just be aware that after going with PL-259 terminated wires, your rigging will be connected to bonding.

For the main, for our VHF cable replacement a bit over a year ago, we did it the way that CP suggested. We used RG8x taped to the old RG58 and we could pull it through, albeit with much effort. Later we tried to use the mousing line to pull through a Cat7 ethernet cable for our masthead mounted wifi antenna. That was not successful and we had to remove the foam bits, which made it 10x easier. 

Mark-Cara: we tried to run LMR400 and it's a very very tight fit and we probably damaged the wire while attempting it; that said, our mast is not horizontal. Also keep in mind that there's RG58 from the base of the mast to the nav station. If you don't replace all of it, you'll have low-loss down the mast and then silly-small RG58 from the mast ot the vhf. Same with our AIS antenna on the mizzen.

When we replaced the mizzen AIS cabling, the same method did not work. The foam bits had rotated and also I think the in-mast conduit is a bit smaller, so no amount of pulling could get the taped combination old/new cable through. You have to remove the pieces of foam.

As Oliver suggested, put the line with the foam bits back. We tried to go without but you could definitely hear the cables banging around. If you break the foam bits, they're just the sealing gaskets for the Goiot portlights. Pretty easy to find online.

Hope this helps.

On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 4:57 AM Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:
Mark,

In my case, there is no way to attach a new cable to the old cable at the top of the mast.  At least not that is apparent to me.  The original RG58 Cable seems to be "hardwired" to the Banten AIS antenna at the top of the mizzen mast.  It may be different on Cream Puff. 

I can, however, attach a new cable at the base of the mast and pull a new cable up the mast to the top of the mast.  

Fortunately, I have the luxury of having my mast horizontal and 4' off the ground while in the mainland USA in the land of Amazon, West Marine, Defender, etc. to figure out what I will do next.  I am planning to replace both the VHF and AIS with antennas that have a PL259 connection at the base of the antenna and run LMR-400 cables to the VHF and AIS. I will let you know how that goes.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Mark McGovern
 

Mark,

In my case, there is no way to attach a new cable to the old cable at the top of the mast.  At least not that is apparent to me.  The original RG58 Cable seems to be "hardwired" to the Banten AIS antenna at the top of the mizzen mast.  It may be different on Cream Puff. 

I can, however, attach a new cable at the base of the mast and pull a new cable up the mast to the top of the mast.  

Fortunately, I have the luxury of having my mast horizontal and 4' off the ground while in the mainland USA in the land of Amazon, West Marine, Defender, etc. to figure out what I will do next.  I am planning to replace both the VHF and AIS with antennas that have a PL259 connection at the base of the antenna and run LMR-400 cables to the VHF and AIS. I will let you know how that goes.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Mark Erdos
 

Hi Mark,

 

This is a project I am about to undertake. It has been on the list for a little while but rolling conditions have stifled my comfort level about going up the mast lately. That, and it’s been so darn hot. All other pieces of the new vhf systems are already in place. The new antennae cable is the final bit.

 

I was planning to securely attach the new cable to the old cable at the top of the mast and then pull it down. Thus, killing two birds with one stone. I am curious why you did not do this. Am I missing something?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark McGovern
Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2021 3:41 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

 

For posterity, here are some close up pictures of the "bowtie" pieces of foam that are inside the mizzen mast.  They are pieces of cylindrical foam about 10.5 mm in diameter and 40mm long.  They are tied about every ~1.3 meters in the mouse line.  





Unfortunately for me, all four of the mouse lines in the mizzen mast were broken near the top of the mast.  Likely from age and UV damage.  I was able to use a my 50' fish tape to run new mouse lines. 

Also unfortunately for me, the main mast is 56+ feet tall and I only have a 50' fish tape.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Mark McGovern
 

For posterity, here are some close up pictures of the "bowtie" pieces of foam that are inside the mizzen mast.  They are pieces of cylindrical foam about 10.5 mm in diameter and 40mm long.  They are tied about every ~1.3 meters in the mouse line.  





Unfortunately for me, all four of the mouse lines in the mizzen mast were broken near the top of the mast.  Likely from age and UV damage.  I was able to use a my 50' fish tape to run new mouse lines. 

Also unfortunately for me, the main mast is 56+ feet tall and I only have a 50' fish tape.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

eric freedman
 

If it is available to you a product called PB Blaster I believe is the strongest product to remove rusted assemblies.

I always drop the bow thruster a few inches every season and coat the motor spline, the bearing at the top of the spline and then use my pinky and then a q tip to fill the bow thruster receptacle. I use marine trailer wheel bearing grease for this.

 

I am not on Kimberlite today , however I was wondering if it is possible to use the long nozzle on the PB blaster can and enter the motor through the cooling slots in the side. Then pointing the nozzle as far down as possible load up the bottom of the motor with a bunch of PB Blaster. Hopefully it will go through the lower bearing and enter into the motor spline.

 

On another important subject.

Just as another preventative measure I remove the pin from the main outhaul twice annually and coat it with Never Seize. It comes out easily every time. It is not a bad idea to also remove a few thousands of an inch from the key on the outhaul shaft.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Germain Jean-Pierre
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2021 7:32 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster tube anomaly

 

Hi Guys,

 

I have the oldest SM. HULL 007!

 

I had lots of difficulty removing the foot in 2015. I used lots of WD40 and repeated use of a heat gun. It came loose eventually and is now a cinch to detach as I coat the shaft with high temp silicone grease upon reassembly.  

 

PATIENCE, LOADS OF WD40 AND HEAT. 

 

Good luck

 

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007

Opua, NZ

 



On 7/02/2021, at 10:27 AM, Juan de Zulueta <jdezulue@...> wrote:

Amel provided me a piece of hard sand paper to avoid the tool to slide on the tube as you can see on the picture I sent before

 

 

Juan de Zulueta

+33680895892

sent from my Ipad.



Le 6 févr. 2021 à 17:08, Dave Ritten <daveritten@...> a écrit :

I have had a problem removing a pinch bolt on a motorcycle and was worried that the head of the bolt was getting rounded. One of the suggestions was to put coarse grinding paste on a hex point socket to increase the coefficient of friction. Apparently this works well in cases where a tool is slipping. Maybe worth a try?
--
Dave Ritten
Auckland
Prospective SM Owner


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hi Guys,

I have the oldest SM. HULL 007!

I had lots of difficulty removing the foot in 2015. I used lots of WD40 and repeated use of a heat gun. It came loose eventually and is now a cinch to detach as I coat the shaft with high temp silicone grease upon reassembly.  

PATIENCE, LOADS OF WD40 AND HEAT. 

Good luck

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007
Opua, NZ



On 7/02/2021, at 10:27 AM, Juan de Zulueta <jdezulue@...> wrote:

Amel provided me a piece of hard sand paper to avoid the tool to slide on the tube as you can see on the picture I sent before



Juan de Zulueta
+33680895892
sent from my Ipad.

Le 6 févr. 2021 à 17:08, Dave Ritten <daveritten@...> a écrit :

I have had a problem removing a pinch bolt on a motorcycle and was worried that the head of the bolt was getting rounded. One of the suggestions was to put coarse grinding paste on a hex point socket to increase the coefficient of friction. Apparently this works well in cases where a tool is slipping. Maybe worth a try?
--
Dave Ritten
Auckland
Prospective SM Owner


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Juan de Zulueta
 

Amel provided me a piece of hard sand paper to avoid the tool to slide on the tube as you can see on the picture I sent before



Juan de Zulueta
+33680895892
sent from my Ipad.

Le 6 févr. 2021 à 17:08, Dave Ritten <daveritten@...> a écrit :

I have had a problem removing a pinch bolt on a motorcycle and was worried that the head of the bolt was getting rounded. One of the suggestions was to put coarse grinding paste on a hex point socket to increase the coefficient of friction. Apparently this works well in cases where a tool is slipping. Maybe worth a try?
--
Dave Ritten
Auckland
Prospective SM Owner


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Dave Ritten
 

I have had a problem removing a pinch bolt on a motorcycle and was worried that the head of the bolt was getting rounded. One of the suggestions was to put coarse grinding paste on a hex point socket to increase the coefficient of friction. Apparently this works well in cases where a tool is slipping. Maybe worth a try?
--
Dave Ritten
Auckland
Prospective SM Owner


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

 

Even though it was Amel about 12 years ago that told me about the "drop method," I do not recommend it, and, in fairness, it was before they developed the tool. 

Maybe you can fold 200 grit wet/dry sandpaper several times where the grit is outside on both sides and insert it around the tube, increasing the friction between the tool and the tube.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 1:40 PM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:
Believe it or not, I have been tapping, oiling, twisting this thing for several weeks... I am definitely sleeping on it. Do you think trying to do the Amel suggested lift and drop on the hard is a good next step? I have a scheduled lift in a few weeks but was hoping to have this done by then.

What is the tube composition? How would you repair gouges in it?

So those 8 screws do nothing to hold the thruster shaft in place? 


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Hey all, I did buy the tool. It didn't work, kept sliding incrementally down the tube no matter how tight I tightened it... Can I put something under the metal to improve the grip?? 


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Juan de Zulueta
 

Davi,

Don t do the lift and drop, I did it some years ago and damaged the polyester cage.
Use the amel tool or similar to extract it.

Juan de Zulueta
+33680895892
sent from my Ipad.

Le 6 févr. 2021 à 15:40, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> a écrit :

Believe it or not, I have been tapping, oiling, twisting this thing for several weeks... I am definitely sleeping on it. Do you think trying to do the Amel suggested lift and drop on the hard is a good next step? I have a scheduled lift in a few weeks but was hoping to have this done by then.

What is the tube composition? How would you repair gouges in it?

So those 8 screws do nothing to hold the thruster shaft in place? 


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Juan de Zulueta
 

Hi All,
I had similar problem. Rust over the motor is creating that problem.
There is a special extractor tool sold by amel which is holding gently on the tube and extracting by moving screws pushing on the motor.
I am removing the tube every year and put a fair amount of grease on the motor connection to the tube.


Juan de Zulueta
+33680895892
sent from my Ipad.

Le 6 févr. 2021 à 13:06, Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> a écrit :

Hey all... So I've had a terrible time trying to remove my bow thruster foot for service (super maramu #56 1991). I inadvertently damaged the fiberglass tube, which is another question : how do I repair it? Is it a glass job?

But it is still stuck. Tried the usual things (penetrant over weeks, chain wrench, amel tool, tapping, banging, etc). There are these little screws I've never seen before on anyone's bt or in photos. Could they somehow be holding it on? The foot was removed and greased 3.5 years ago with no problem, and barely used, so rust alone seems like a stretch...there is some but doesn't look drastic. I'm afraid to remove all of these screws because of something messes up, I'll have a hard time taking her out to a yard with no bowthruster.

Anyone know what these screws do? Any ideas on how to repair a gouge in the tube?

Thanks, y'all 
<IMG_20210206_175033-01.jpeg>
<IMG_20210206_184809-01.jpeg>
<IMG_20210206_185334-01.jpeg>


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Believe it or not, I have been tapping, oiling, twisting this thing for several weeks... I am definitely sleeping on it. Do you think trying to do the Amel suggested lift and drop on the hard is a good next step? I have a scheduled lift in a few weeks but was hoping to have this done by then.

What is the tube composition? How would you repair gouges in it?

So those 8 screws do nothing to hold the thruster shaft in place? 


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

 

Davi,

I know that this is hard to believe, but I can remember at least 6 owners who experienced the same thing. I told them the most important thing you can do is be patient. In all of those cases, with all of the things you are doing, they were eventually successful without damaging the bow thruster. In my opinion, this will never happen if the bow thruster is serviced every 2 years and the bow thruster is not in use, it is locked up with the locking pin inserted. 

Were you able to apply a little twisting motion? In the hardest case, it was a very slight twisting motion (back and forth) and some vibration added to the cast iron base of the motor.

The reason the tube is stuck is saltwater entered the joint between the motor base and the tube. Rust on the cast iron base was the result of the saltwater and the rust filled the close fit between the tube and the cast iron motor base causing a very tight fit. The tube and the motor base are not rusted together because the tube is not metal. I understand that the tube is now very tight in the motor base.

Your bow thruster may be irreplaceable. I am not sure, but if not, one day soon that will be the case. It is important to take care of it like everything else I know that you do on your Amel.

I suggest that you walk away from this for a day or two.

Best,

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 12:53 PM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:
Yup, removed 4 bolts. I checked about six times over the past week to make sure there wasn't a 5th... 


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Yup, removed 4 bolts. I checked about six times over the past week to make sure there wasn't a 5th... 


Re: Secondary Saltwater Manifold SMs & 54s, and possibly some Santorins, Mangos, and Maramus

Jim Anderson
 

Interested.
Thank you.
SM384
Sirena Azul


Re: How much Solar?

Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
 
Edited

Regarding spike back protection, I think it best to explain why.....  Everyone should understand the protection parameters of their battery's BMS.  The BMS is there to protect your batteries, from High Voltage, Low Voltage, Over Current, Low Temperature, and High Temperature.  The BMS protections vary greatly between brands , but that should do it for most.  So, lets say your Alternator is charging at 28.4V,  that's great if the BMS's High Voltage shut of is at 29.2V.  But, what if you have a spike in the alternator's charging voltage (above 29.2V), or some type of failure in the battery's BMS...... your BMS will turn the battery off, and then your Alternator is instantaneously looking into an open circuit.  AND, You just smoked your Alternator.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03SQMDnY6O0

This device should help anytime BMS shuts down your batteries, including your Victron Charger would feel less stress when the BMS does it's job.

In theory the $99 device Bill mentioned should save the alternator in this scenario.  I didn't think about this, but this device makes a lot of sense.  

Thanks Bill!

Ken Powers
Aquarius
SM2K262


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

 

Sometimes, I forget to start with a simple solution. 

How many Allen bolts did you remove from the base of the motor? It should have been 4.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 11:04 AM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:
Hey all... So I've had a terrible time trying to remove my bow thruster foot for service (super maramu #56 1991). I inadvertently damaged the fiberglass tube, which is another question : how do I repair it? Is it a glass job?

But it is still stuck. Tried the usual things (penetrant over weeks, chain wrench, amel tool, tapping, banging, etc). There are these little screws I've never seen before on anyone's bt or in photos. Could they somehow be holding it on? The foot was removed and greased 3.5 years ago with no problem, and barely used, so rust alone seems like a stretch...there is some but doesn't look drastic. I'm afraid to remove all of these screws because of something messes up, I'll have a hard time taking her out to a yard with no bowthruster.

Anyone know what these screws do? Any ideas on how to repair a gouge in the tube?

Thanks, y'all 

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