Date   

Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

 

I doubt it is the thermostat because of the temperatures you have.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 8:55 AM Vladan SV PAME <vladan.bojic@...> wrote:
Slavko,

White smoke means there is no sea water flow.
Once you fix sea water flow you will need to change impeller as it's burned now without sea water.

Happened to me same with engine.
--
Vladan

A54 #157 PAME


Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Vladan SV PAME
 

Slavko,

As you just changed impeller another possibility is that some impeller fin or something else get stacked and omit normal sea water flow.
--
Vladan

A54 #157 PAME


Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Craig Briggs
 

Slavko,
Unlikely, but, sure, a bad thermostat could cause the problem.
You might try removing the thermostat and either test it in a pan of water on the stove or run the set without the thermostat and see if it still overheats.
Then you will know.


Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Vladan SV PAME
 

Slavko,

White smoke means there is no sea water flow.
Once you fix sea water flow you will need to change impeller as it's burned now without sea water.

Happened to me same with engine.
--
Vladan

A54 #157 PAME


Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Slavko Despotovic
 

Thank you. Impeller is new. Replaced two hours ago. Bad thermostat would not cause this type of problems?
I am little confused as generator worked fine before maintenance few hours ago. 

Water is coming out of the boat. There is one more think, after 5-10 minutes there is white smoke starting to come out  of exhaust, combined with water. This is something that did not happen before.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: Insurance

Patrick McAneny
 

Eric , I bought the one you have the link to , the Tsurumi pump and it is 120v  ,which I will run off my inverter . The 45 gal./minute I quoted is from their chart at a 7 ft. head pressure. Not sure you can rely on any numbers produced by manufacturers ,but it does pump a hell of a lot of water . I think it could keep up with a broken  sea cock . It can handle 1/4" objects and has pumped our pond out ,where the bottom has leaves and crap ,dirtier than I hope my boat ever gets.
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 7:43 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance

Is this a 220 volt unit or do you run it off of an inverter?
The only issue I see with the one attached is the starting amps is 12.5.
It looks like a great pump ; however it does have an impeller..
 
Our AMFA bilge pump is a diaphragm pump . Last time I took it apart it was incredible what was inside of the pump including a few cable ties. I just wonder how resistant to clogging the electric one is..
 
The pumps I see on construction sites always seem to be diaphragm pumps.
 
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance
 
While on passage to the Caribbean a couple of years ago at about 3 am . I discovered about a foot of water under the floor boards by the nav station. Conditions had been rough for days and the bow thruster had been leaking obviously for some time. I had a household A/C submersible pump and that eventually pumped out the water ,but it clogged a lot with bits of paper etc. and only pumped thru a garden hose. That confirmed for me ,that I would always want to have an auxiliary pump on board ,just a bigger ,better one that can not clog. 
So I now have a A/C submersible trash pump, a trash pump is designed to pump high volumes of water while allowing  debris to pass thru and out the pump without clogging. The pump I bought pumps 45 gallons per minute thru a two inch hose. The cord is very long and the hose is 50 ft. long. This has the advantage of being able to locate the pump where needed. I could drop it over the side and put a lot of water on a fire as well. While I can't remember what I paid ,it was not more than $400.
I also have a water garden with ponds totaling 4000 gallons ,which I can now drain quickly with no clogging as opposed to hours with my previous pump clogging every few minutes. Goggle trash pumps. 
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River , Md.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance
The extra-large bilge pump requirement is becoming popular among insurance companies. It started with one "brilliant" underwriter. Frankly, I am waiting for the same "brilliant" or another expert to require watertight compartments.😀
 
I suggest that you buy a large-capacity submersible 24-volt Rule Pump and the required length of hose to be able to use the pump anywhere in your Amel. Maybe you can justify the few hundred expense to be able to pump out your water tank.
image.png
 
Image removed by sender.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.
 
Image removed by sender.
 
 
On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 12:35 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:
Joerg,
 
I do not have a clause for a bilge pump requirement. My TopSail underwriter is 100% Great Lakes Insurance SE. It look like they subbed your policy to MRRSI.
 
This is an issue that has been bought up previously in this group. If I am to face the same clause, I would just install a secondary pump higher than the original (perhaps in the dry area just forward of the Amel drive) and splice the output hose with a Y valve past the primary pump. This way the original pump is still the primary and the secondary is there to match the insurance needs but would never be cycled. This could be done for about €150.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joerg Esdorn via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 5:06 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance
 
I just received a competitive quote from Topsail but it contains a condition that I need to have a bilge pump capable of 100l/minute.   The standard electrical pump on the A55 does 30l/minute only and it’s the same pump as is installed on most recent prior models.   Mark, did you have to install a bigger pump to get Topsail cover?  Cover is through  Great Lakes Insurance SE via Munich Re Risk Solutions Ireland (MRRSI).   

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Vigo, Spain


Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

 

The operating temperature (oil) should be about 80C and the exhaust elbow about 50C.

The issue is that you are not getting enough saltwater through the heat exchanger.

The causes are multiple, but could be one of these more common causes:
  1. The supply of saltwater to the Onan may be restricted. Check the sea chest strainer and the primary saltwater manifold (photo below) connected to the sea chest. You may need to check hoses from the sea chest to the Onan raw water pump.
  2. The impeller blades are worn, broken, cracked, or set in place causing the lack of flow. Your Onan needs OEM impellers that are changed every 250 hours or 1 year, whichever comes first. Just because you see water exhausting the boat, doesn't mean it is enough water and it does not mean the impeller is good. I cannot tell how much water is enough by looking at the exhaust.
  3. Impeller blades may be logged inside the Onan raw water pump. Remove the pump and inspect for blades.
  4. The impeller is held in place by a key. The key will wear and sometimes cause the shaft to spin inside the impeller. This is hard to recognize.
  5. The heat exchanger and/or hoses connected are partially clogged with broken blades and/or debris. Remove the heat exchange and have it professionally cleaned. Take this opportunity to repaint it and install a new anode. Purchase 2 end cap kits part number 130-5176. These end caps are fragile and may break when they are removed (photo below).
  6. The following is something that you should either do every 2-3 years: The exhaust manifold and/or exhaust elbow might be partially clogged with carbon. Remove the exhaust elbow and inspect it. You will probably be able to see inside the exhaust manifold. If carbon buildup is present in either, clean them.
Onan exhaust elbow and exhaust manifold in red circles. Required gaskets in the green circles:
image.png
image.png
image.png
image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 6:54 AM Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:

Hi Bill,

I have a problem with generator overheating (106 dC) coolant temperature . Sea water exhaust temperature up to 80 dC. Have checked impeller (it is new) , new oil, fuel filters, new oil. Before service at 1000 hours it was working ok. I am thinking that thermostat might be a problem. Or should I concentrate on seawater cooling system?
question is if thermostat fails( it is open, no flow od coolant) is the seawater system strong enough to cool the engine on 80 dC? In my generator this is not the case.

thank you.


Slavko

SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: Pipe feeding heating in main rear cabin

Slavko Despotovic
 

Here is how is done on Bonne Anse.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: Onan shuts down under load without shutdown codes

Slavko Despotovic
 

Hi Bill,

I have a problem with generator overheating (106 dC) coolant temperature . Sea water exhaust temperature up to 80 dC. Have checked impeller (it is new) , new oil, fuel filters, new oil. Before service at 1000 hours it was working ok. I am thinking that thermostat might be a problem. Or should I concentrate on seawater cooling system?
question is if thermostat fails( it is open, no flow od coolant) is the seawater system strong enough to cool the engine on 80 dC? In my generator this is not the case.

thank you.


Slavko

SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: Rubber mount of C-drive with keel

 

If the aft part of the C-Drive can be moved to either side by 10mm, or more, the C-Drive Foot Rubber Bushing absolutely needs to be replaced. The recommendation is a side-to-side movement of 5mm or less. The rubber bushing replacement part is a piece of heavy-duty 1” or 25mm hose. 

I am betting there are more than a few C-Drives that need this. Step-by-step procedure in my book.
image.png
Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 2:15 AM Ian Park <parkianj@...> wrote:
Bill,
You're a star. Just what I needed to know. And compared with the state of mine it explains the vibration I've been experiencing on the C Drive Vetus mounts despite having carefully realigned the engine.

Thanks again.

Ian






Re: Rubber mount of C-drive with keel

Ian Park
 

Bill,
You're a star. Just what I needed to know. And compared with the state of mine it explains the vibration I've been experiencing on the C Drive Vetus mounts despite having carefully realigned the engine.

Thanks again.

Ian


Re: Photo of the fuel tank out of the boat

Thomas Kleman
 

Yes- removed both inspection ports, made gaskets out of Nitrile (1/8 inch) and cleaned the outlet. When refilling the tank, I only took on 90 pct of my diesel and left the dregs in their temp storage tank. Then bled the system at the racors so it will hopefully start OK. The bottom of the tank had to be scraped out with a metal scraper- it was coated with a filmy resin. 

Note to Eric- after reading your post about stalling out 10 mi from your house and using compressed air through the fuel line, I keep our electric dinghy inflation pump handy on passages with the correct tip for the fuel line.

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM2K 422
Tahiti


Photo of the fuel tank out of the boat

eric freedman
 

I forgot to ask ; did you remove all inspection ports?

From what did you make the new gaskets ?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Thomas Kleman
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 6:47 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Fuel tank surpruse

 

I hate doing this to everybody (if you are like us, we read some other SM owner's post about an issue and immediately believe we have it too). Influenced by a few recent posts, I got interested in my fuel tank here on the hard in Tahiti. We don't go to fuel docks, and we have filtered every drop entering our boat for the 11 years we've owned it. I was motivated by the knowledge that an access port gasket had disintegrated and was in the tank. We emptied the tank (500 liters) and found a horror show of slime (and the gasket remains). It took 12 hours to make it spotless, but I'm left wondering how close I was to an inopportune engine failure. Anyway, food for thought if you haven't seen your tank bottom in a while.

Tom and Kirstin

SM2K 422
Papeete, Tahiti


Re: Fuel tank surpruse

eric freedman
 

Hi Tom,

Did you remove and clean the filter inside the bottom of the  tank?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Thomas Kleman
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 6:47 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Fuel tank surpruse

 

I hate doing this to everybody (if you are like us, we read some other SM owner's post about an issue and immediately believe we have it too). Influenced by a few recent posts, I got interested in my fuel tank here on the hard in Tahiti. We don't go to fuel docks, and we have filtered every drop entering our boat for the 11 years we've owned it. I was motivated by the knowledge that an access port gasket had disintegrated and was in the tank. We emptied the tank (500 liters) and found a horror show of slime (and the gasket remains). It took 12 hours to make it spotless, but I'm left wondering how close I was to an inopportune engine failure. Anyway, food for thought if you haven't seen your tank bottom in a while.

Tom and Kirstin

SM2K 422
Papeete, Tahiti


Re: Insurance

eric freedman
 

Is this a 220 volt unit or do you run it off of an inverter?

The only issue I see with the one attached is the starting amps is 12.5.

It looks like a great pump ; however it does have an impeller..

 

Our AMFA bilge pump is a diaphragm pump . Last time I took it apart it was incredible what was inside of the pump including a few cable ties. I just wonder how resistant to clogging the electric one is..

 

The pumps I see on construction sites always seem to be diaphragm pumps.

https://www.waterpumpsdirect.com/Tsurumi-Pump-HS2-4S-62-Water-Pump/p7023.html

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance

 

While on passage to the Caribbean a couple of years ago at about 3 am . I discovered about a foot of water under the floor boards by the nav station. Conditions had been rough for days and the bow thruster had been leaking obviously for some time. I had a household A/C submersible pump and that eventually pumped out the water ,but it clogged a lot with bits of paper etc. and only pumped thru a garden hose. That confirmed for me ,that I would always want to have an auxiliary pump on board ,just a bigger ,better one that can not clog. 

So I now have a A/C submersible trash pump, a trash pump is designed to pump high volumes of water while allowing  debris to pass thru and out the pump without clogging. The pump I bought pumps 45 gallons per minute thru a two inch hose. The cord is very long and the hose is 50 ft. long. This has the advantage of being able to locate the pump where needed. I could drop it over the side and put a lot of water on a fire as well. While I can't remember what I paid ,it was not more than $400.

I also have a water garden with ponds totaling 4000 gallons ,which I can now drain quickly with no clogging as opposed to hours with my previous pump clogging every few minutes. Goggle trash pumps. 

Pat

SM Shenanigans

Sassafras River , Md.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance

The extra-large bilge pump requirement is becoming popular among insurance companies. It started with one "brilliant" underwriter. Frankly, I am waiting for the same "brilliant" or another expert to require watertight compartments.😀

 

I suggest that you buy a large-capacity submersible 24-volt Rule Pump and the required length of hose to be able to use the pump anywhere in your Amel. Maybe you can justify the few hundred expense to be able to pump out your water tank.

image.png

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 12:35 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Joerg,

 

I do not have a clause for a bilge pump requirement. My TopSail underwriter is 100% Great Lakes Insurance SE. It look like they subbed your policy to MRRSI.

 

This is an issue that has been bought up previously in this group. If I am to face the same clause, I would just install a secondary pump higher than the original (perhaps in the dry area just forward of the Amel drive) and splice the output hose with a Y valve past the primary pump. This way the original pump is still the primary and the secondary is there to match the insurance needs but would never be cycled. This could be done for about €150.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joerg Esdorn via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 5:06 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance

 

I just received a competitive quote from Topsail but it contains a condition that I need to have a bilge pump capable of 100l/minute.   The standard electrical pump on the A55 does 30l/minute only and it’s the same pump as is installed on most recent prior models.   Mark, did you have to install a bigger pump to get Topsail cover?  Cover is through  Great Lakes Insurance SE via Munich Re Risk Solutions Ireland (MRRSI).   


Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Vigo, Spain


Fuel tank surpruse

Thomas Kleman
 

I hate doing this to everybody (if you are like us, we read some other SM owner's post about an issue and immediately believe we have it too). Influenced by a few recent posts, I got interested in my fuel tank here on the hard in Tahiti. We don't go to fuel docks, and we have filtered every drop entering our boat for the 11 years we've owned it. I was motivated by the knowledge that an access port gasket had disintegrated and was in the tank. We emptied the tank (500 liters) and found a horror show of slime (and the gasket remains). It took 12 hours to make it spotless, but I'm left wondering how close I was to an inopportune engine failure. Anyway, food for thought if you haven't seen your tank bottom in a while.

Tom and Kirstin
SM2K 422
Papeete, Tahiti


Re: Auto-Prop

Patrick McAneny
 

Ian, Amel modified the C Drive housing to accommodate the Autoprop ,I have #123 and could not fit an Autoprop and went with a Max prop instead. I don't know at what # they changed the design . If your housing does not have a sweeping indentation below and above your prop shaft , then you cannot fit an Autoprop. 
Pat 
SM Shenanigans #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Townsend <smlocalola@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 4:12 pm
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Auto-Prop

Has anyone put an Auto-Prop on an SM older than #153? If so, were there any issues or modifications required? 


Ian
Loca Lola II
SM153


Re: Replacement of the twin belts of the Leece and Neville 175 amp alternator

eric freedman
 

In addition to Bill’s comments , you should also buy the belts as a matched pair.

They are available in that configuration.
The belts will then be equally tight.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Philippe Chatton
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 1:36 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Replacement of the twin belts of the Leece and Neville 175 amp alternator

 

De

 

Dear all,

Could one of you share the steps / procedure to replace the 2 belts of the Leece and Neville alternator (SM2K comfort pack/Yanmar 4JH3 HTE).

This would be of great help!

Thanks in advance!

Philippe

S/V Chameleon Antibes FR

 

 

 


Re: a question about Integrel Lite

Aktan Temiz
 

thank you all for your valuable feedbacks 👋
Aktan

Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...>, 30 Nis 2021 Cum, 22:51 tarihinde şunu yazdı:

I never heard of this so I got curious. I've read the website and to me this sounds as a solution looking for a problem.

You are adding another level of complexity by introducing the 48 volt subsystem. Taking up to 8 kW from the main engine still does not make it a serious load on the engine of you are not moving and that is bad for diesels.
More batteries. So next to your 24V batteries you now need to worry about a 48V battery set as well. Sizing down your main 24V bank may not be so clever given loads like the bow thruster or you have to migrate everything to Lithium.

I still don't get the advantage even if you would install the full monty. Save a generator? That thing is more quiet and more fuel efficient at the loads this system put on the main engine. Charging your batteries when running on the engine works perfectly in the current setup with a 110A or 170A alternator @ 24 volt.

Maybe if you would build a new boat it would make some sense but I think you can come up with a far more efficient system, using solar and hydro generators.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121



--
Aktan TEMiZ
+90 532 296 5599
aktantemiz@...


Re: Insurance

Mark Erdos
 

I guess I might already be in compliance if the insurance clause were to appear on my policy. I already have a pump like this to empty the water tank. It also has a rubbery 2” 30’ hose so I can pump over the side. It is labeled as emergency pump and stores nicely in a tote bag.

 

I am not sure if this would meet the insurance requirement or not, since it is not a full time automatic bilge pump. I wonder if the policy specifies this must be the case?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance

 

The extra-large bilge pump requirement is becoming popular among insurance companies. It started with one "brilliant" underwriter. Frankly, I am waiting for the same "brilliant" or another expert to require watertight compartments.😀

 

I suggest that you buy a large-capacity submersible 24-volt Rule Pump and the required length of hose to be able to use the pump anywhere in your Amel. Maybe you can justify the few hundred expense to be able to pump out your water tank.

image.png

 

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 12:35 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Joerg,

 

I do not have a clause for a bilge pump requirement. My TopSail underwriter is 100% Great Lakes Insurance SE. It look like they subbed your policy to MRRSI.

 

This is an issue that has been bought up previously in this group. If I am to face the same clause, I would just install a secondary pump higher than the original (perhaps in the dry area just forward of the Amel drive) and splice the output hose with a Y valve past the primary pump. This way the original pump is still the primary and the secondary is there to match the insurance needs but would never be cycled. This could be done for about €150.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joerg Esdorn via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 5:06 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance

 

I just received a competitive quote from Topsail but it contains a condition that I need to have a bilge pump capable of 100l/minute.   The standard electrical pump on the A55 does 30l/minute only and it’s the same pump as is installed on most recent prior models.   Mark, did you have to install a bigger pump to get Topsail cover?  Cover is through  Great Lakes Insurance SE via Munich Re Risk Solutions Ireland (MRRSI).   


Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Vigo, Spain

1501 - 1520 of 59217