Date   

Re: Seasickness cures and medication

Thomas Peacock
 

One of the problems with nausea and vomiting is that while the end-result is the same (first you’re afraid you’re going to die, then you’re afraid that you won’t), the causes of N & V are manifold. Stomach viruses, food poisoning, post-anesthesia, chemotherapy, motion, pain, bowel obstruction; the list goes on. But, what works for one cause does not necessarily work for another cause.

I’m a retired oncologist, and have unfortunately had many patients who have suffered severely with chemotherapy induced N & V. I have witnessed huge advances in managing this: first metoclopramide (Reglan in the US), ondansetron (Zofran in the US), and Aprepitant (Emend in the US). Due to these drugs, the vast majority of people who undergo treatment today experience little or no N & V. 

Being a sailor who does suffer somewhat from motion sickness, I have also followed these newer drugs in the hopes that they might benefit me as well. Unfortunately, none of them really seem to help. That is not my personal experience talking: there have been well-run published studies looking for benefit from them for motion sickness, and unfortunately, they just don’t work. In addition, while generally well-tolerated, they are not entirely free of side effects. The most noticeable one for ondansetron is constipation. While most drugs list constipation as a side-effect, for ondansetron it is real. That’s already a potential problem on any blue-water voyage, especially in rough seas where the desire to visit the head is oftentimes overcome by the fear of sitting on the pot in a rolling boat. We do not carry these drugs on board.

So, I agree with most others on this forum:  meclizine (Antivert, Bonine), absolutely worth of try. Scopolomine, also helps some people. Dimenhydrinate (Dramamine), also can help others. They can all cause dry mouth, and drowsiness; not to be taken with alcohol. I have tried the electric bracelets, my jury is still out. On another note, I have read a German study that showed some modest benefit from Vitamin C, 2 gram dose a day. Pretty safe. And, I’m in total agreement for any form of ginger.

Unfortunately, nothing really helps A LOT. Maybe just enough so that you can function. Or maybe not. 

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay
But I’m a landlubber for many more weeks with a broken leg

On Jun 9, 2021, at 12:55 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

I was asked by a crewmember to poll the group to find out what Amel owners used 
and recommended for seasickness.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 


--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Motion sickness medication

Eric Freedman
 

My friend and crewmember asked to poll the group as to what seasick medications are used.

He is a PhD specializing in inner ear problems particularly motion sickness. He works at a world-famous medical center. He is a consultant to NASA and has worked for many private and government agencies.

I thought you all might be  interested in his thoughts.

He uses Cinnarizine on a passage.

 

Hi Eric,

   So here is some light reading for you on the subject.  As you can see, there are many competing studies, but to get a sense of the big picture here you go.  My view as a vestibular scientist who has worked with clinicians, the space program docs, other sailors, and had personal experience is:

 

  1. scopolamine/dex patches are difficult to use for sailors because they don’t dose well, come off when wet, can have adverse side effects for some (particularly women) including dizziness, malaise, and even halucinations.  However, many studies show the scop/dex patches work for motion sickness effectively.
  2. Cinnarizine is the least for issuing side effects, usually drowsiness, but at 15 – 25 mg bid, this is minimal and effective for motion sickness particularly at sea state frequencies of 0.2 – 0.5 Hz
  3. Promethazine is really only affective with IM injections or suppositories, as is used for space crews and is given only before they have a sleep cycle to avoid cognitive side effects and drowsiness.  Not used for general sea sickness by any military groups
  4. Meclizine is often used for motion sickness, but has a high incidence of drowsiness and cognitive effects equivalent to 0.1 BAL at doses that are effective

 

So the research continues….

 


Re: Seasickness cures and medication

Doug Smith
 

From the perspective of a US emergency physician, here are my thoughts and experiences on the medications we have used and continue to use.

 

Dramamine, Antivert, Meclizine, and Bonine are all the same drug, just in different milligram amounts of the drug meclizine.  12.5 mg, 25 mg, up to 50 mg at a time for severe symptoms.  Best if taken early, before the vomiting occurs, and when symptoms are starting to take hold. They come in tablets or dissolvable pills, and are very well tolerated in most people.  Importantly, in the US they are all over the counter.  It is ok to break a 25 mg tablet in half.

For those in the US, and especially for those traveling with kids, most US doctors will give you a prescription for Zofran, or Ondansetron, which works exceptionally well for the vomiting and has almost no side effects at all. Just explain the purpose and I can’t imagine a doctor who would decline. The dose of Ondansetron is 4 mg but it can be tolerated in doses up to 16 mg and 32 mg for adults.  Most of the time 4 mg is enough.  Very effective.

We carry on board our boat, a healthy supply of these two drugs, Zofran and Meclizine.

Scopolamine patches are very effective, and I carry them, but haven’t used them a ton since the others work so well, with less side effects. The nice part of this one is that if you start to get the side effects that are uncomfortable, you can just remove the patches and they will go away with some Benadryl or diphenhydramine.

We also carry Compazine and Phenergan on board, but similar to scopolamine, the risk of side effects are slightly higher. These work well, if the vomiting has already started, and can be given rectally as well, but the rectal suppositories need to be kept cool to avoid melting. You manage these side effects with Benadryl as well.

 

In order of preference,

For adults, Meclizine, Ondansetron, Scopolomine, and then lastly Phenergan or Compazine whichever is on board.

For kids under about 10 years of age, ondansetron, ondansetron, ondansetron.

The other points are well made about watching the horizon, and staying topside.  Ginger snaps, or ginger ale are nice mild remedies as ginger has some anti nausea properties. We try to encourage liquids in small sips mouthful every 5- 10 minutes, as soon as the medications take effect and then to encourage dry snacks like granola, or crackers, while the meds are working.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 at 12:55 PM
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Seasickness cures and medication

 

I was asked by a crewmember to poll the group to find out what Amel owners used

and recommended for seasickness.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 


Re: Preventing Bow Thruster drop during service

Ian Park
 

On 10 Jun 2021, at 15:08, eric freedman <kimberlite@optonline.net> wrote:

Amel recommends putting a hose clamp on the tube of the bow thruster. It has worked for me for the last 19 years.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Ian Park
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 9:09 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Preventing Bow Thruster drop during service

Yes, I always do this, but thread the rope through the prop space so it can’t slip off. Makes removal single handed easier.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96. St Mary’s, Isles of Scilly










Re: SM winch motor brushes

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Mike. Eric has already answered the temoval question. It took me no more than 10 minutes once I had cleared the locker. When you have separated the motor from the gear box take the plate with the lip seal  off the gearbox. Be sure to have it on the upside. The gearbox is totally full of oil. I pressed the seal out. Got a new one and pressed it in. Then reasembled. Straightforward job.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 11 June 2021 at 08:40 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

If you have not already dome it, it is easy to remove the entire motor and gearbox.

Just remove the wires to the motor and tape them up.  If you then reach up to the top of the motor, you will feel 4 bolts. If I remember correctly you will need a short wrench.

If you remove them the motor assembly drops down and can be serviced.

Please see my previous note for installation. Also replace part #11 a plastic shim.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

The drawing for the winch

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Mike Ondra via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 4:10 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM winch motor brushes

 

Thanks Danny. Did you replace the seals with the gearbox in place above the pilot birth or did you remove it so you could do the work in the more humane position? If removed what did you get into in separating the below deck assembly from the above deck assembly?
Mike

Aletes SM240

Chesapeake



On Jun 7, 2021, at 3:46 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mike. warning warning warning. The small amount of oil will multiply if you don't deal with the cause. When it multiplies the resulting shorting will do very nasty things to your motor. I had to replace mine. The gearbox is oil filled. You need to separate the motor from the gearbox and replace the lip seal. I did the job on both winches. Not difficult. I took the side plate off the gearbox that the seal is located in and pressed it out. Easier than trying to hook it out. An aside. I was astounded when I needed the new motor. Lewmar in Auckland New Zealand had the identical unit on the shelf.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 June 2021 at 07:16 "Mike Ondra via groups.io" <mdondra@...> wrote:

I couldn’t help myself.  Pulled the motor apart. Indeed there are four brushes. Here’s some pics for anyone who’s interested. Small amount of oil in the bottom of the motor housing that dripped out when the bottom bolt was extracted. Didn’t seem to be enough to impede anything electrical.

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>

 

 



On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>



It would appear that removing to service the motor/gearbox assembly for the winch may be challenging. I am reticent to disturb the bedding and other sealant damages that could occur with removal when I’m not certain that there is a problem in the first place.. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It just doesn’t sound quite right.

There are some drops of oil on the bottom of the gearbox which are some concern. But no evidence of drips below the gearbox on the headliner. Does anyone know if there are brushes in this motor? 

<image3.jpeg>

 

 



On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:23 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

Our starboard foresail winch has started to complain. After servicing the above deck hardware it sounded better but still a bit more growly than normal. Suspecting the motor brushes. Not having had experience servicing this motor, I am anticipating, as with other first time servicing projects, that it may not go smoothly. If indeed brush replacement is likely, I would like to have the brushes in hand while things are apart. We do have spare brushes for the furling motors. It would be nice if the winch motors utilized the same brushes. Can anyone confirm the specifics of the winch motor brushes?

Thanks,

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM240

Rock Hall, MD


 


 

 



 


 


Re: Seasickness cures and medication

Joerg Esdorn
 

Another vote for sturgeon.   I hadn’t heard about the long term bad effects but I’ve never had a crew who took it get seasick or have side effects.   I have recently had a case of a crew member who didn’t think it was necessary to take it.  Bad idea.  Throwing up for hours and serious dehydration resulted.  If you start vomiting not even water stays down.  So I’ve now bought some suppositories to deal with that situation.  I hope I will never have to use them.  


Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem
Vigo


Re: Seasickness cures and medication

Randall Walker
 

Number one cure, stay on land.
If that is not possible I recommend unsalted soda crackers and flat Canada Dry ginger ale.
All my friends are not so nice and just say “suck it up buttercup” lol

Randall
A54#56
At anchor in Grenada 

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 12:55 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

I was asked by a crewmember to poll the group to find out what Amel owners used

and recommended for seasickness.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 


Re: SM winch motor brushes

Eric Freedman
 

Hi Mike,

If you have not already dome it, it is easy to remove the entire motor and gearbox.

Just remove the wires to the motor and tape them up.  If you then reach up to the top of the motor, you will feel 4 bolts. If I remember correctly you will need a short wrench.

If you remove them the motor assembly drops down and can be serviced.

Please see my previous note for installation. Also replace part #11 a plastic shim.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

The drawing for the winch

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Mike Ondra via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 4:10 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM winch motor brushes

 

Thanks Danny. Did you replace the seals with the gearbox in place above the pilot birth or did you remove it so you could do the work in the more humane position? If removed what did you get into in separating the below deck assembly from the above deck assembly?
Mike

Aletes SM240

Chesapeake



On Jun 7, 2021, at 3:46 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi Mike. warning warning warning. The small amount of oil will multiply if you don't deal with the cause. When it multiplies the resulting shorting will do very nasty things to your motor. I had to replace mine. The gearbox is oil filled. You need to separate the motor from the gearbox and replace the lip seal. I did the job on both winches. Not difficult. I took the side plate off the gearbox that the seal is located in and pressed it out. Easier than trying to hook it out. An aside. I was astounded when I needed the new motor. Lewmar in Auckland New Zealand had the identical unit on the shelf.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 June 2021 at 07:16 "Mike Ondra via groups.io" <mdondra@...> wrote:

I couldn’t help myself.  Pulled the motor apart. Indeed there are four brushes. Here’s some pics for anyone who’s interested. Small amount of oil in the bottom of the motor housing that dripped out when the bottom bolt was extracted. Didn’t seem to be enough to impede anything electrical.

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>

 

 



On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>



It would appear that removing to service the motor/gearbox assembly for the winch may be challenging. I am reticent to disturb the bedding and other sealant damages that could occur with removal when I’m not certain that there is a problem in the first place.. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It just doesn’t sound quite right.

There are some drops of oil on the bottom of the gearbox which are some concern. But no evidence of drips below the gearbox on the headliner. Does anyone know if there are brushes in this motor? 

<image3.jpeg>

 

 



On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:23 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

Our starboard foresail winch has started to complain. After servicing the above deck hardware it sounded better but still a bit more growly than normal. Suspecting the motor brushes. Not having had experience servicing this motor, I am anticipating, as with other first time servicing projects, that it may not go smoothly. If indeed brush replacement is likely, I would like to have the brushes in hand while things are apart. We do have spare brushes for the furling motors. It would be nice if the winch motors utilized the same brushes. Can anyone confirm the specifics of the winch motor brushes?

Thanks,

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM240

Rock Hall, MD


 


 


Re: Mounting a life raft on the SM railing

Eric Freedman
 

I wanted to do that on Kimberlite years ago and the manufacturer said it was not suitable for rail mount.

They said that my raft a Switlik was not suitable for that configuration. I would check with the manufacturer to see if it works in that configuration. I now have a Winslow. I keep it in the port cockpit  locker next to my Jordan drogue. They offer 6 different case shapes for this raft.  It is a 6-man raft and must be repacked every 3 years. I especially like it as it has closeable pockets inside for my bail out bag gear.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Jarek Zemlo via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 6:01 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mounting a life raft on the SM railing

 

Jose Hi,
attached some pictures of my raft. I did the change last year and welded in the rail port side. My raft is Viking ISO pack (6 persons fully equipped for long ocean passage).
Sailed so far 2.000 miles and no problems.

Jarek
SY NOA BLUE
SM 201


Re: Preventing Bow Thruster drop during service

Eric Freedman
 

Amel recommends putting a hose clamp on the tube of the bow thruster. It has worked for me for the last 19 years.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Ian Park
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 9:09 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Preventing Bow Thruster drop during service

Yes, I always do this, but thread the rope through the prop space so it can’t slip off. Makes removal single handed easier.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96. St Mary’s, Isles of Scilly


Re: Preventing Bow Thruster drop during service

Ian Park
 

Yes, I always do this, but thread the rope through the prop space so it can’t slip off. Makes removal single handed easier.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96. St Mary’s, Isles of Scilly


Re: Mounting a life raft on the SM railing

Jarek Zemlo
 

Jose Hi,
attached some pictures of my raft. I did the change last year and welded in the rail port side. My raft is Viking ISO pack (6 persons fully equipped for long ocean passage).
Sailed so far 2.000 miles and no problems.

Jarek
SY NOA BLUE
SM 201


Re: Seasickness cures and medication

CARINA HAMMARLUND
 

We use scopolamine patches which works well and we also tried the sea sickness googles used by the marine.
you look funny wearing them but it really helps when you need to go down for galley work etc
--
Carina
SV Ultimo
Amel 54 No 165


Re: Skilled electric-electronic people in Preveza-Greece

Alain Durante
 

Bonjour Olivier,

 

I just changed my Bamar electric furler so let me know if you need spare furlers?

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain Durante

 

Amel 54 Meige #21

 

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de Beaute Olivier via groups.io
Envoyé : jeudi 10 juin 2021 09:32
À : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io; AmelYachtOwners <main+owner@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Objet : [AmelYachtOwners] Skilled electric-electronic people in Preveza-Greece

 

Good morning,

 

AMEL 54#171 GANESHA is looking for a skilled electric-electronic after a lightning strike.

The vessel is in Preveza/Greece.

 

You may contact me at olivierbeaute at gmail dot com.

 

Thanks.

 

Olivier.


Re: Mounting a life raft on the SM railing

Alain Blanchard <akdf85@...>
 

Jose

This is How IT is fitted on Koriolys 
Regards / Alain


SM 146/Koriolys 
Gruissan /France

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 10 juin 2021 à 03:44, Jose Venegas via groups.io <josegvenegas@...> a écrit :

I am replacing my life raft with one that can be kept on the railing for easy deployment.  My current one is a balize that I am not sure I will be able to deploy in time.

I would greatly appreciate any ideas/photos/drawings and experience of SM that have installed their life raft in the reailing.

I have been debating about finding a location for easy deployment, not adding to the port listing (exaggerated by the newly installed lithium batteries or tilting more the stern and certainly not reduce front visibility.

Thank you

Jose 
Ipanema SM 2K 278
Currently in Cartagena de Indias 


Skilled electric-electronic people in Preveza-Greece

Beaute Olivier
 

Good morning,

AMEL 54#171 GANESHA is looking for a skilled electric-electronic after a lightning strike.
The vessel is in Preveza/Greece.

You may contact me at olivierbeaute at gmail dot com.

Thanks.

Olivier.


Re: Seasickness cures and medication

Alan Leslie
 

We take Stugeron tablets for the first 2 days. It makes me a bit drowsy, but after two days all is fine...and if out for 6 months or so, never have to take it again.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Mounting a life raft on the SM railing

VICTOR MOLERO
 

This is my solution, Jose.
I'm happy with it.
Victor
SM314 Alendoy


Re: Seasickness cures and medication

Marcel Tromp
 

Lie down on your belly , relax the muscles but have a bucket nearby! No meds!


On Thu, 10 Jun. 2021 at 16:29, Giorgio Ardrizzi
<giorgio.ardrizzi@...> wrote:
I have been using Biodramina Cafeina for years and I am very happy. It is the usual Dramamina type pill, but it contains caffeine which completely eliminates sleepiness.  The problem is finding it, because to my knowledge it is only sold in Spain. You can also buy it online.  On average it lasts 6/8 hours.

With regard to the Scopolamine patch, I advice once applied, to cover it with a paper patch. If inadvertently touches the patch and then the eyes, causes the complete opening of the pupil for many hours.
Being the Scopolamine a drug, for years in Italy, my nation, sale is prohibited.

Giorgio Ardrizzi
sy Saudade III
Sharki #1 - 1980
in Le Marin, Martinique


Re: Seasickness cures and medication

Giorgio Ardrizzi
 

I have been using Biodramina Cafeina for years and I am very happy. It is the usual Dramamina type pill, but it contains caffeine which completely eliminates sleepiness.  The problem is finding it, because to my knowledge it is only sold in Spain. You can also buy it online.  On average it lasts 6/8 hours.

With regard to the Scopolamine patch, I advice once applied, to cover it with a paper patch. If inadvertently touches the patch and then the eyes, causes the complete opening of the pupil for many hours.
Being the Scopolamine a drug, for years in Italy, my nation, sale is prohibited.

Giorgio Ardrizzi
sy Saudade III
Sharki #1 - 1980
in Le Marin, Martinique

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