Date   

Re: Resource - hinges for chain locker A54

Randall Walker
 

If you can I would treat them by painting or coating. They are such a cheap thing to have ever been factory installed.

Randall
A54#56
Grenada

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 12:18 Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:

Dear Amelians,

 

18 month ago I tried to refurbish the hinges on the anchor locker/ cover door.

Without success. 

Unfortunately Maud wrote me today that the (chain locker)

„hinges for the lockers of your boat are no longer available from us.“

 

They appear to be the same as for the watertight bulkhead doors.

 

Does anybody used another resource to get this hinges?

 

Stefan

A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently Santa Maria, Azores



Motion Sickness

Eric Freedman
 

This is from one of my crewmembers

 

 

Hi Eric,

   Would love to talk with the astronaut/doctor about his experiences with space motion sickness or SMS. His comments on the etiology of motion sickness in terms of mismatch between vestibular motion detection signals and brain state regarding other detectors of motion is the leading theory among  vestibular scientists.  As I told you, that is what my specialty is, vestibular neuroscientist.  We study not just motion detection, best motion perception, inner ear disfunction, eye movement control during motion, balance, spatial orientation, and navigation. 

 

  I can tell you that as of today’s date, we only have theory about what produces motion sickness in it’s many forms, not a known physiology base that has a pharmacological intervention that works for everyone, certainly not a cure.  We (vestibular scientists) have gained a great deal of information over many decades on the subject but it remains an enigma.  We do know quite a bit about how the brain processes motion information and how multisensory integration signals in the brain and their functional imbalance is the root cause of motion perception dysfunction.  There are priors (effects of vision, proprioception, balance motor command efferent feedback) that are all individualized through experience and developmental variances that lead to differences in one person’s susceptibility over another’s. What I personally am working on for many years is the brain’s multisensory integration capacity and what happens when that integration is disrupted.

 

His comments are correct as I understand it regarding SMS.  Of course, he has personal experience as an astronaut.  I have only worked with the astronaut and cosmonaut core in the past, but not recently.  As I understand it through current scientific literature and discussion with my colleagues who do human spaceflight work at JSC, MIT, and some other places the guided use of promethazine by the astronaut core is under continual flight doc supervision, and as Bill states, it is supplemented by amphetamine to offset the drowsiness side effect of promethazine.  I am familiar with scope/dex and it’s use early in the space program, mostly at the beginning of the space station era, and we have used it in our monkey vestibular studies.  As he states, it was replaced by the current regime of promethazine and amphetamine/ephidrine. As I understand it, use of promethazine for SMS is usually given before a sleep cycle, to diminish the drowsiness side effects for awake mission performance.

 

Currently, in our scientific understanding, we know that SMS is mainly produced by an acute substantial change in the gravito-inertial acceleration (GIA) experienced with the reduction in gravity.  There is still gravity in space, but only at the 0.003g level typical at the ISS level of orbit which is several orders of magnitude less than Earth at 1g.  There is still linear acceleration force experienced in spaceflight from translational motion so the net GIA experienced during spaceflight is vastly different from that experience on Earth and the vestibular inertial detection system is quickly changed upon reaching orbit.  Again the brain has a multisensory informational change that elicits SMS.  However, unlike motion sickness at sea, it is from a loss of signal from the inertial sensing part of the vestibular inner ear, not from a continual motion dynamic like boat motion.

 

A number of studies from the  Navy and from labs (including our own) has shown that roll motion similar to that experienced on boats in the frequency range of 0.2 Hz or lower is a major effector for producing motion sickness. Pitch motion is not as provocative.  This unusual roll motion is compounded by focal vision (near viewing) high demand tasks such as reading, writing, or cooking where eye coordination to close visual targets is not matched to the boat motion and is very different from the priors stored in your brain memory for types of motion responses one is used too on stable substrates.  That is why people find relief from sea sickness by going on deck, looking at the horizon, or eliminating any form of close visual focal behavior.  That is also why some people find relief in the severity of sea sickness if the boat changes direction (downwind or similar to flatten the boat and reduce the 0.2 Hz roll component).

 

In terms of steering, that is two-fold introduction of motion signal augmentation that can help offset the vestibular mismatch experienced during sea sickness.  First, is the proprioceptive signal from the joints and muscles in your arms, hands, body torso (if seated) and all of those plus ankles/hips (if standing) that provide motion signals about position/movement to feed into the multisensory vestibular brain regions.  These same signals are known to be enhanced when an individual has vestibular ear disease, or loss of vestibular inner ear signals due to trauma or nerve cuts such as occur with certain types of cancer.  When these proprioceptive signals are enhanced with vestibular loss, this leads to an improvement in balance and a reduction in motion sickness in people with vestibular disease.  The same process happens with sea sickness.  That is believed to be the compensation component of the brain that results in many people getting used to sea motion after 48 – 72 hours after at initial sea sickness onset.  The second component of why steering helps some people is a concentration of vision away from focal tasks (near viewing) to distance viewing (horizon, steering targets in the distance, etc).

 

For drugs to be used for propholaxis and sea sickness treatment, there are many studies on the subject.  The modern science points to promethazine, cinnarizine, and hyoscine as the most effective choices.  But all have pluses/minuses, all have different dosages that are effective for different people.  Again, we are talking specifically for sea sickness, not SMS, which has a different defined cause than sea sickness, although the same medications may be efficacious for both. There is no one right answer here!

 

Most vestibular scientists that are also sailors prefer cinnarizine or hyoscine, because of the lower side effect of drowsiness which is high with promethazine.  However, once you are already experiencing sea sickness to the level of emesis, suppository promethazine is preferred.  In addition, one does not have to take an antidrowsiness amphetamine/ephedrine necessarily with cinnarizine or hyoscine.

 

Other than the papers I already sent you from scientific journals last week, here are a couple more abstract.  Hope this is helpful!

 

 

Here is the abstract of a study for cinnarizine from 1994 as an example:

 

Cinnarizine in the prophylaxis of seasickness: laboratory vestibular evaluation and sea study

A Shupak 1I DoweckC R GordonO Spitzer

Affiliations expand

  • PMID: 8004883

 

abstract

Cinnarizine was evaluated for the prevention of seasickness in a laboratory and sea study. The effects of 25 mg cinnarizine on the vestibulo-ocular reflex were investigated in 13 subjects. Significant reduction of the gain in response to sinusoidal oscillations at 0.02, 0.08, and 0.16 Hz (p < 0.05) and increased phase lead at 0.16 Hz (p < 0.01) were observed. The effect of 25 and 50 mg cinnarizine on seasickness severity was examined in 95 subjects during a voyage in rough seas. Seasickness symptoms were improved in 69% of the subjects by 50 mg cinnarizine versus 35% and 31% in the groups receiving 25 mg cinnarizine and placebo (p < 0.05 and p < 0.01, respectively). The percentage of vomiting protection provided by 50 mg cinnarizine was 63% (p < 0.05). We conclude that 50 mg cinnarizine is an effective drug for the prevention of seasickness. The reduction in vestibular sensitivity observed even after administration of 25 mg cinnarizine may explain the potency of cinnarizine in the prevention of seasickness.

 

Here is the abstract from the Royal Naval Medicine journal about cinnarizine use and sea sickness:

INM investigations into drugs for seasickness prophylaxis.

Pingree BJ

Journal of the Royal Naval Medical Service01 Jan 1994, 80(2):76-80
PMID: 7707278 

Review

Share this article Share with emailShare with twitterShare with linkedinShare with facebook

Abstract 


A summary is presented of a programme of work investigating the comparative efficacy of the two drugs most commonly used for seasickness prophylaxis in the Royal Navy, hyoscine and cinnarizine. The programme had both laboratory and sea-trial components. It was shown that hyoscine was a more effective drug than cinnarizine, but cinnarizine had less marked side effects. This comparative superior tolerability of cinnarizine decreased as motion sickness increased. Guidance is given as to the optimum indications for each drug, together with prophylactic regimens.

 


Re: Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Dimitris,

In 12 years I have never run the gen set when using the bow thruster. However I always use it in short bursts of two or three seconds. Occasionally in stress situations that might go out to 10. Seamanship comes in to it.

If you use it in long runs it becomes a different issue. Of course because bow thruster use is almost always when maneuvering for docking and in and out of marinas the main engine is going so its 24 volt alternator is running. Mine is only a 75amp and the motor is usually running at low revs so not at peak output. I have lead acid batteries for my house bank.

I would express an opinion that using the headsail furler under load, which I often do without the motor running, would draw more than the bow thruster. I have not measured that or calculated that though. However since that use would almost always when sailing in stronger winds ahead of the beam my Super Wind 350 generator would be pumping.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 16 June 2021 at 21:59 Dimitris Krasopoulos <dkrasopoulos@...> wrote:

There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:

Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




 


 


Making it easier to open companionway door

Jose Venegas
 

The weight of the companionway sliding door on our SM and the method of locking it single-handed had forced my Admiral to quit that job on Ipanema.  After evaluating various designs I opted for a simple solution of a track-guided counterweight connected to the door with a pulley.   Although the machinist in Martinique did a terrible job with the stainless steel finished surfaces the system works very well and the Admiral can now open and close the door without complaints.  The counterweight dimensions are 20x10x3 cm which is short of the weight to balance the weight of the door but allows it to slide open in a smooth controlled manner.  The track is 1 meter long and 1 cm wide and comes with a ball-bearing sliding mechanism.  ( https://www.amazon.com/LML12B-Linear-Bearing-Variety-Length/dp/B07GQKGG9S ) 

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM278


Here are a few pix



Downwind pole contol lines-replacement

david bruce
 

Hello, 
I am looking to create a new set of the blue,red,yellow downwind pole control lines and am looking for information about this type of line and it's sourcing.  Bills book calls it 'Tempest' but I can't seem to find any online references to this type of line and do not recall seeing it in any chandleries.   Does anyone know what brand it might be?   Also more generally is this type of line used for this application for any specific reason (besides the pretty colors) ie it's stretch or shock absorption attributes, making it important to replace like with like or less ideally could other types of line be used? 
Thank you
Dave Bruce
Liesse SN006


Re: rigging question

Bill Kinney
 

Bill,

There is no easy way to switch them.  The clevis pins are VERY different sizes, as are the holes in the chain plate.  If someone has enlarged the holes for the intermediate shrouds to the point where the upper’s pin would fit, and then put the smaller intermediate pin in the bigger hole that used to hold the upper, that’s a bad idea. I can think of no good reason for doing so.

Other than that, I can see no reason the position should matter one way or the other.  It is possible Amel wasn’t consistent, although this would be surprising.  It is more likely that Amel changed at some point, and you are seeing a model year difference.

For what it is worth, on #160 the intermediate is forward, and there would be no way to change that without modifying the chain plate.

Bill Kinney
SM#160, Harmonie
Attwood Harbor, Akins Is, Bahamas


Re: Amel 54, For those who do not really like the entrance hatch locking system

Alexander Ramseyer
 

Looks great to me.
Congrats to another good solution on you LUNA!
Alex
sv NO STRESS


Re: Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

Ulrich Michael Dangelmeyer
 

Hi all,

just my small contribution to this topic:
Last year in spring our 54 was operated in the marina by the mechanics (without us by Covid) from the pontoon box to the travelift.The engine was used only briefly for propulsion, most maneuvers were apparently controlled with the bow stare, is also much easier and more efficient...Without generator. And back again to another place. 
Master Volvo was used only briefly for propulsion, most maneuvers were apparently controlled with the bow thruster, is also much easier and more efficient...Without generator and alternator. With battery power alone!
When we boarded in the fall all batteries were completely destroyed: < 7V per battery. No light no pump, nothing. The boat was dead.
the electrician kept a low profile and just said "bye bye". Since our batteries were otherwise always at 26.8 V when we came back after months. No proof, but 12 new Victron AGM for 4000 € were expensive port maneuvers. Never again without our company on board.

Ulrich Michael
„Soleil Bleu“ A54#088
<>

I agree that the action of turning on the generator and charger becomes excessive at some point. I think it is just a level of personal comfort, as to how much we are each willing to do, to avoid a potential problem. As for us, we do not turn in the generator if a few short bursts may be expected in an open anchorage.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 12:42:18 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
I agree on the temperature current problem but this is important in difficult anchorages with strong side wind in normal anchoring is it justified? To know I have installed one Onan starter button in the cockpit as it is not convenient to go down to start the generator ….

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 1:30 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Hi Dimitri;

I think the comcept of operating the bow thruster with the charger on, makes sense to me. The charger simply helps to keep the voltage to the bow thruster as high as the boat is capable, so the current draw by the bow thruster is minimized, again as much as possible, with everything our boats have at their disposal. Since the power required to run the bow thruster is a function of Voltage (V) x Current (I), the higher the voltage, the lower the current requirement.

Higher currents create higher temperatures and therefore lead to shorter usage time of the bow thruster before the temperature sensor shuts off the bow thruster. It is also less stress on all other functioning parts that have to channel the current to the bow thruster motor, including the motor itself.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 11:59:49 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18





rigging question

william reynolds
 

 In our travels in the eastern Caribbean we have noticed that the rigging on the main mast on the SM's we see varies.  On our SM2k the intermediate shroud is forward on the chain plate and the upper is aft. On other boats we see the shrouds are reversed, the upper is forward. Can anyone confirm the correct orientation designed by AMEL?
Bill Reynolds
Cloudstreet SM2K 331


Re: Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

Mohammad Shirloo
 

I agree that the action of turning on the generator and charger becomes excessive at some point. I think it is just a level of personal comfort, as to how much we are each willing to do, to avoid a potential problem. As for us, we do not turn in the generator if a few short bursts may be expected in an open anchorage.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 12:42:18 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
I agree on the temperature current problem but this is important in difficult anchorages with strong side wind in normal anchoring is it justified? To know I have installed one Onan starter button in the cockpit as it is not convenient to go down to start the generator ….

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 1:30 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Hi Dimitri;

I think the comcept of operating the bow thruster with the charger on, makes sense to me. The charger simply helps to keep the voltage to the bow thruster as high as the boat is capable, so the current draw by the bow thruster is minimized, again as much as possible, with everything our boats have at their disposal. Since the power required to run the bow thruster is a function of Voltage (V) x Current (I), the higher the voltage, the lower the current requirement.

Higher currents create higher temperatures and therefore lead to shorter usage time of the bow thruster before the temperature sensor shuts off the bow thruster. It is also less stress on all other functioning parts that have to channel the current to the bow thruster motor, including the motor itself.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 11:59:49 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Re: Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

Dimitris Krasopoulos
 

I agree on the temperature current problem but this is important in difficult anchorages with strong side wind in normal anchoring is it justified? To know I have installed one Onan starter button in the cockpit as it is not convenient to go down to start the generator ….

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 1:30 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Hi Dimitri;

I think the comcept of operating the bow thruster with the charger on, makes sense to me. The charger simply helps to keep the voltage to the bow thruster as high as the boat is capable, so the current draw by the bow thruster is minimized, again as much as possible, with everything our boats have at their disposal. Since the power required to run the bow thruster is a function of Voltage (V) x Current (I), the higher the voltage, the lower the current requirement.

Higher currents create higher temperatures and therefore lead to shorter usage time of the bow thruster before the temperature sensor shuts off the bow thruster. It is also less stress on all other functioning parts that have to channel the current to the bow thruster motor, including the motor itself.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 11:59:49 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Re: Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Dimitri;

I think the comcept of operating the bow thruster with the charger on, makes sense to me. The charger simply helps to keep the voltage to the bow thruster as high as the boat is capable, so the current draw by the bow thruster is minimized, again as much as possible, with everything our boats have at their disposal. Since the power required to run the bow thruster is a function of Voltage (V) x Current (I), the higher the voltage, the lower the current requirement.

Higher currents create higher temperatures and therefore lead to shorter usage time of the bow thruster before the temperature sensor shuts off the bow thruster. It is also less stress on all other functioning parts that have to channel the current to the bow thruster motor, including the motor itself.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 11:59:49 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Re: Steering Wheel Dimensions for new leather cover - AMEL Sharki?

Gregory Shea
 

Johannes,
Didn’t you get my E mail?

Greg Shea
Cap des Iles Sharki 133



On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Johannes Schmidt <info@...> wrote:

Dear group, I just received the answer from AMEL SAV - unfortunately they do no longer have this leather covers for a SHARKI - and they can not provide any detailed measurements.

So I´ll go for an aftermarket product.

Thanks for your help so far!

Fair winds,

Johannes


Re: Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

Dimitris Krasopoulos
 

There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Re: Steering Wheel Dimensions for new leather cover - AMEL Sharki?

Johannes Schmidt
 

Dear group, I just received the answer from AMEL SAV - unfortunately they do no longer have this leather covers for a SHARKI - and they can not provide any detailed measurements.

So I´ll go for an aftermarket product.

Thanks for your help so far!

Fair winds,

Johannes


Re: Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Re: Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

Lior Keydar
 

Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Re: Bow thruster does not work in one direction

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks to all for the quick and helpful assistance.

 

We did work on the Bow Thruster yesterday and it did turn out to be bad contact at the control box plug, which some CorrosionX (thank you Bill R for introducing us to CorrosionX a few years back)  and multiple plugging and unplugging, resolved, for now. Sometimes you get lucky with simply solutions.  I will have to order the control box, IPC relay, micro switches and maybe a joystick, as I believe, we may have to revisit this issues in the future.

 

Since we had the bow thruster cover removed, I did notice a squealing sound while the unit was being lowered and raised. It appears to be coming from the worm gear, but it is hard to tell. Has anyone  run into this and do you know if there is a way to lubricate this gearing and whether the motor for the up/down function needs maintenance?

 

Respectfully;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of antonio scipioni via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 11:07 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

I had the same problem last year and Was the joystick failure in cockpit. 

Br

Antonio

Sn108 Vagabundo in rome now 

Inviato da iPhone



Il giorno 14 giu 2021, alle ore 19:08, Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98@...> ha scritto:



Mohammad, I went through a similar issue last year with mine.  It ended up being the IPC relay, which I was able to diagnose using the SP_troubleshooting guide.  I also showed the steps used in my details of bow thruster details PDF.  It is picture 11,page 7.  You will use a jumper wire on the solenoid, to see where the problem is.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2021 at 12:21 PM
To: "Amel group new .iso" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo 

A54 #099

<Bowthruster details SP 155 TCi.pdf>

<SP_Troubleshooting_Guide_with_IPC.pdf>


Re: Motion Sickness

Paul Harries
 

On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 18:43, CW Bill Rouse
<brouse@...> wrote:
As I reported earlier, our Group member, SM owner, Circumnavigator in a SM and International Space Station, Astronaut, and Professor of Cardiology, responded with the following advice:

Regarding motion-sickness treatments, I checked with my NASA colleagues, who wrote:
Phenergan (promethazine) is still the treatment of choice for Space Motion Sickness/SAS. As you know I first used it to treat a crewmate on an earlier STS flight and it became the treatment. Questions were raised if ondansetron (ZOFRAN) would be better.  Ondansetron was trialed on ISS (the Space Station); it was not as effective as Phenergan. NASA Flight Medicine thinks that Phenergan will remain the treatment for the foreseeable future because it is effective and that the actual side-effects experienced as opposed to what appears in the package insert have not been an issue.

As you are probably aware, Phenergan can be sedating, but the sedative effect can be countered by amphetamines or ephedrine. Because of the abuse potential of amphetamines, they are not used in the military for treatment of side effects, but the last I heard the military does use ephedrine. Typically they use 25mg of Phenergan and 25 of Ephedrine for embarked Marines on a routine basis.


On Revelation, we've tried Stugeron, but did not find it effective, either personally, or for passengers.


NASA, many years ago, made their own "Scope/Dex". It was a large gel capsule with scopolamine and dexedrine tablets inside.  It worked, but not as well as promethazine (PHENERGAN), so Scope/Dex was discontinued.


Studies were done by NASA with Scopolamine patches.  There was a 10-fold variation in Scopolomine blood levels. with the patch. There are multiple determinants for its absorption.  I still remember one of the volunteers, an engineer in our project, who went from being a quiet, shy person to a "drunken, 'life of the party".  She had to be taken home from work...  Trying the patch, on-shore, would be advisable for anyone contemplating its use at sea, although absorption could still be dramatically different "at sea".


We used Phenergan on Day 1 of our flight.  It was highly effective, and in that setting, didn't seem to cause sedation.  Giving it early, before the person is on the verge of vomiting, works best.  At sea, I take it at the first sign of nausea, as it's better to prevent than "treat".  In space, alertness did not seem to be a problem.  I've taken it as a crewmember, doing studies on the NASA KC-135 (aka "The Vomit Comet").  It does make people sleepy, but they can function better than if they were nauseated and vomiting.


There's no question that being in the cockpit, fresh air, focusing on the horizon,  or even letting the person steer the boat all help.  "Steering" helps even if the boat is actually being steered by the autopilot.

Motion-sickness is thought to be caused by a mismatch between the vestibular and ocular system signals, so moving as though steering the boat reduces the mismatch.  


If someone's nausea has proceeded to vomiting, use a suppository.   When a vomiting person takes Phenergan and then vomits again, there's no way to tell how much of the drug was absorbed.  Too much can be toxic. 
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Motion Sickness

 

As I reported earlier, our Group member, SM owner, Circumnavigator in a SM and International Space Station, Astronaut, and Professor of Cardiology, responded with the following advice:

Regarding motion-sickness treatments, I checked with my NASA colleagues, who wrote:
Phenergan (promethazine) is still the treatment of choice for Space Motion Sickness/SAS. As you know I first used it to treat a crewmate on an earlier STS flight and it became the treatment. Questions were raised if ondansetron (ZOFRAN) would be better.  Ondansetron was trialed on ISS (the Space Station); it was not as effective as Phenergan. NASA Flight Medicine thinks that Phenergan will remain the treatment for the foreseeable future because it is effective and that the actual side-effects experienced as opposed to what appears in the package insert have not been an issue.

As you are probably aware, Phenergan can be sedating, but the sedative effect can be countered by amphetamines or ephedrine. Because of the abuse potential of amphetamines, they are not used in the military for treatment of side effects, but the last I heard the military does use ephedrine. Typically they use 25mg of Phenergan and 25 of Ephedrine for embarked Marines on a routine basis.


On Revelation, we've tried Stugeron, but did not find it effective, either personally, or for passengers.


NASA, many years ago, made their own "Scope/Dex". It was a large gel capsule with scopolamine and dexedrine tablets inside.  It worked, but not as well as promethazine (PHENERGAN), so Scope/Dex was discontinued.


Studies were done by NASA with Scopolamine patches.  There was a 10-fold variation in Scopolomine blood levels. with the patch. There are multiple determinants for its absorption.  I still remember one of the volunteers, an engineer in our project, who went from being a quiet, shy person to a "drunken, 'life of the party".  She had to be taken home from work...  Trying the patch, on-shore, would be advisable for anyone contemplating its use at sea, although absorption could still be dramatically different "at sea".


We used Phenergan on Day 1 of our flight.  It was highly effective, and in that setting, didn't seem to cause sedation.  Giving it early, before the person is on the verge of vomiting, works best.  At sea, I take it at the first sign of nausea, as it's better to prevent than "treat".  In space, alertness did not seem to be a problem.  I've taken it as a crewmember, doing studies on the NASA KC-135 (aka "The Vomit Comet").  It does make people sleepy, but they can function better than if they were nauseated and vomiting.


There's no question that being in the cockpit, fresh air, focusing on the horizon,  or even letting the person steer the boat all help.  "Steering" helps even if the boat is actually being steered by the autopilot.

Motion-sickness is thought to be caused by a mismatch between the vestibular and ocular system signals, so moving as though steering the boat reduces the mismatch.  


If someone's nausea has proceeded to vomiting, use a suppository.   When a vomiting person takes Phenergan and then vomits again, there's no way to tell how much of the drug was absorbed.  Too much can be toxic. 
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

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