Date   

Re: Inverter replacement

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks Arno. Very much in line with our future direction. I would appreciate any and all information and schematics you have. It would be greatly appreciated and helpful. 

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Arno Luijten via groups.io <arno.luijten@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 2:34:37 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Inverter replacement
 
Hi Mohammad,

We went through the same problem, the 2kW inverter died (it is actually not a 2,5 kW inverter, the continuous load is only 2kW). So we also replaced the thing with the Mass Combi Ultra.
Although it did take it a step further. I have also installed a full Masterbus network and a Mastervolt Easy Display that you can configure to have a button to switch on/off the inverter remotely. It also connects to the two existing chargers, the alternator controller, the Mastershunt and solar controller.
Next I removed the switchover logic from Amel in the engine room in the grey box next to the generator and installed a 230V/32A relay with a 24V coil. I change the setup in the 230V breaker panel a bit as well.
The switchover for the generator is embedded in the Mass Combi together with the switchover for the inverter as pointed out by Nick.
The result is I now have a fully transparent switchover between sources without the 230V appliances even noting it.
Another thing I now am capable of is converting the 60Hz shore power we have here in Saint Martin to 50Hz using the Mass Combi and the Mastervolt Chargemaster 100A simultaneously, one to do the inverting and one to keep the batteries topped up. This is where the new relay comes into play.
If you like I have drawn a new schematic on how the system is laid out.

I did not have to route new cables apart from some short pieces, I did have to change/relocate the circuit-breaker that was in the feed-line of the inverter (from 100A to 200A). I checked the cable between the breaker and the inverter and it was thick enough for the 175A that it can use, so was the cable between the breaker and the batteries. That saved a lot of effort.

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A45-121


Re: Short Tricolor to Mooring light

Arno Luijten
 

You may have a chafed cable in the mast. Most likely at the top or at the base of the mast. If not and if you have a LopoLight LED masthead light, it may be broken. Their claim about a life expectancy of 50 000 hours is almost hilarious. Most of the original models will not even achieve 5000 hours. The power regulator inside is not very well laid out so you can expect all kinds of failures. But given the fact you have seem to have a firm short circuit the cable is most suspect.
Use a multi-meter to see if you get resistance between either one of the cable-leads and the metal of the mast itself. All leads should read infinite relative to the mast.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121


Re: Inverter replacement

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Mohammad,

We went through the same problem, the 2kW inverter died (it is actually not a 2,5 kW inverter, the continuous load is only 2kW). So we also replaced the thing with the Mass Combi Ultra.
Although it did take it a step further. I have also installed a full Masterbus network and a Mastervolt Easy Display that you can configure to have a button to switch on/off the inverter remotely. It also connects to the two existing chargers, the alternator controller, the Mastershunt and solar controller.
Next I removed the switchover logic from Amel in the engine room in the grey box next to the generator and installed a 230V/32A relay with a 24V coil. I change the setup in the 230V breaker panel a bit as well.
The switchover for the generator is embedded in the Mass Combi together with the switchover for the inverter as pointed out by Nick.
The result is I now have a fully transparent switchover between sources without the 230V appliances even noting it.
Another thing I now am capable of is converting the 60Hz shore power we have here in Saint Martin to 50Hz using the Mass Combi and the Mastervolt Chargemaster 100A simultaneously, one to do the inverting and one to keep the batteries topped up. This is where the new relay comes into play.
If you like I have drawn a new schematic on how the system is laid out.

I did not have to route new cables apart from some short pieces, I did have to change/relocate the circuit-breaker that was in the feed-line of the inverter (from 100A to 200A). I checked the cable between the breaker and the inverter and it was thick enough for the 175A that it can use, so was the cable between the breaker and the batteries. That saved a lot of effort.

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A45-121


Re: Inverter replacement

ngtnewington Newington
 

Mohammad,
1.Normally inverter chargers all have sleep modes. There will be a sensitivity setting that looks for a load. Some electronics demand so little power that the big inverter can not see it. This searching will use a little power.

2. If there is an AC source applied to the inverter charger then it will automatically bypass inverter mode and become a charger and all AC demands that would otherwise be met by the inverter are now met by the AC supply.
So in practice if the generator is running or shore power, so long as the 100A charger switch is on then the outlets fed by the inverter will be fed directly by the AC source.
If however the 100A switch is off then the inverter will supply those outlets.
So with Lithium, if you are happy there is enough capacity you could just use the big inverter to supply the whole AC part of the boat simply using the inverters internal change over switch.
I know some people think that is not belt and braces enough…but …..not sure.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML54-019
Patmos



On 27 Jun 2021, at 10:19, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:



Our original 2500W Mastervolt inverter died at the end of the season in 2019. We have purchased a new Mastervolt Mass Combi ultra 3500/24/100 inverter charger as a replacement. This will also act as a backup charger and be ready for future upgrades to Lithium and solar installation. For now, we will just be utilizing the inverter function to have A/C when off grid and generator not running. So, the wiring is fairly simple and the original battery and A/C wiring will be connected to the new unit.

The new unit does not have a remote switch, like the original that is installed on the generator panel in the galley. The new units have control displays that we will be adding in the future. It is possible to leave the inverter on in sleep mode that utilizes minimum power, or go into the engine room and turn unit off at the unit. 

My question is regarding the switching of the A/C going to the main panel when multiple sources of power are available. I’m assuming that the inverter A/C wiring is connected to the priority switch that selects which source of power is feeding the A/C panel Just want to be sure that if the inverter is on and either shore power or generator is supplying power, the inverter is not in the circuit and is OK to leave the unit on all the time, if we elect to do so?


Inverter replacement

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Our original 2500W Mastervolt inverter died at the end of the season in 2019. We have purchased a new Mastervolt Mass Combi ultra 3500/24/100 inverter charger as a replacement. This will also act as a backup charger and be ready for future upgrades to Lithium and solar installation. For now, we will just be utilizing the inverter function to have A/C when off grid and generator not running. So, the wiring is fairly simple and the original battery and A/C wiring will be connected to the new unit.

The new unit does not have a remote switch, like the original that is installed on the generator panel in the galley. The new units have control displays that we will be adding in the future. It is possible to leave the inverter on in sleep mode that utilizes minimum power, or go into the engine room and turn unit off at the unit. 

My question is regarding the switching of the A/C going to the main panel when multiple sources of power are available. I’m assuming that the inverter A/C wiring is connected to the priority switch that selects which source of power is feeding the A/C panel Just want to be sure that if the inverter is on and either shore power or generator is supplying power, the inverter is not in the circuit and is OK to leave the unit on all the time, if we elect to do so?


Short Tricolor to Mooring light

Mohammad Shirloo
 

A few days ago, when we tried to turn on the mooring light, noticed that the Tricolor light LED also came on and then the mooring light breaker tripped. This would also happen if the tricolor LED was turned on. So it appears we have a short between the two circuits. I disconnected the mooring at the base of the mast and the problem continued. Then I disconnected the tricolor wires at the base of the mast and I could turn on both breakers, without issue. So it appears that the short is somewhere between the base of the mast and the light itself. We have the combo light at the masthead. 


Anyone run into this issue? Would appreciate any ideas as to the most likely source of the short.


Re: VHF antennas

Scott SV Tengah
 

Nick,

Just noticed this re: using the SSB DSC cable as your AIS receive.

The SSB DSC comes from the triatic between the mizzen and main. You can see it on the photo you posted. SSB DSC is around 2200hz I think, whereas AIS is around 162 MHZ, a subset of VHF.

It's your boat, but if I was in your position, I would spend the $50 and get a VHF antenna (not AIS) and mount it on the mizzen. An antenna tuned to VHF/AIS will almost certainly provide better AIS reception than your triatic. 

Two additional benefits: (1) If you decide to get a transceiver later, it's plug and play. (2) If your main VHF antenna dies, you can easily use the mizzen VHF/AIS as a backup.

I'd also check the specs on that cable. If I recall correctly, the cable for the SSB DSC wasn't the same as the cable that Amel installed for my AIS antenna.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Chain Counter

Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
 

I usually carry two spares on Aquarius.

Ken...
Still Alive aboard Aquarius
In Thailand
SM2K#262


24VDC to 12VDC converters: 0V connections

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi all,

On GARULFO, and I suspect on other A54s and maybe SM, there are three 24VDC to 12VDC converters, marked “permanent”, “hydra/iscan v90” and “VHF icom”.

Of those, only the “permanent” one has the input +0V and the output +0V posts connected. 

Does anyone know why that is?
Why shouldn’t the other 2 be the same?

In one pic:



Thanks


Best,


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahiti 




Re: Chain Counter

Thomas Kleman
 

The only thing I would add is that this is an item that you buy 2 at a time. Put one away with your spares and notes on this project. It will next break when you are in Bora Bora.

Tom and Kirstin
SM2K 422
L'ORIENT
Bora Bora, FP


Re: VHF antennas

Scott SV Tengah
 

That was my assessment when I ran the RG-8X with the mast up. We actually tried to feed some LMR-400 through after the fact and it was nearly impossible. I ran RG-8X all the way to the VHF to replace the super thin RG-58u that Amel put in originally. Getting the Rg-8x through the boat from the base of the mast to the VHF wasn't super easy either. Perhaps you can do it with LMR-400, but I wouldn't want to try and risk breaking things inside the little conduits inside the boat.

If I ever need to remove the mast, I will cut the rg-8x and add more splices and the connector. It's not difficult but no need to add those lossy connectors for now, IMO. 

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 10:47 PM Mark Barter <markbarter100@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,

That is really helpful, thank you. It is difficult to see how even 6mm cable would be easily run given the setup at the bottom of the masts. On the basis of what you have said I will wait until the masts are down to replace the cables.  There are some other jobs that can be done at the same time. 

Did you leave enough cable at the bottom of the masts to reach the nav station or did you put in a connector near the bases?

Thanks again.
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Chain Counter

Thomas Peacock
 

Hi Bill,

We had a similar problem on SM 240. Using the chain counter would trip the 24V->12V converter under the nav station. I can’t remember the exact wiring diagram, but the wires indeed run from the chain counter back, I’m not sure if they connect to the small box above the galley by the autohelm, or if they connect to the contacts under the joystick in the cockpit. And, indeed, they do draw their power from the converter under the nav station. 

Assuming the wires are not shorted themselves, the most iikely culprit is the proximity sensor right by the windlass. Ours was blown, and replacing it fixed the problem. You could try disconnecting the sensor, make sure your converter is working, and then test the voltage by the windlass. If indeed your sensor is bad, you can purchase a new one: IB 5072, made by IFM.  I bought it in the US from Radwell; however, IFM is a German company; if you are in the EU you might be able to buy directly from IFM or a European distributor. There is more chatter from me on this site from May 2019 that may be helpful to you. Good luck!

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

On Jun 25, 2021, at 2:48 PM, william reynolds <sail23692@...> wrote:

My chain counter, which was working properly, suddenly ceased to function.
There are no wiring diagrams that I can find. I searched the Amel site and found several hundred threads but no wiring diagrams. I tried to trace the associated wiring but what I found was a plethora of non associated wires.
The wires to the sensor on the  windless were blue, brown and a yellow/green bonding/ground wire. These led to the area in the fwd cabin where the relays for the windlass were and then  disappeared forward never to be seen again.
In the area above the sink, to the left of the steering rack is a box labeled "computer of the chain. There were 2 large black cables with #16 - green, white and black wires within that went to the counter above on the panel. These connected to smaller grey cables at a terminal strip which then disappeared into a large bundle and I ASSUME go the the chain counter box below the nav station. I when I checked the fuse on the box labled "chain computer" all the instruments quit!
The boxes under the nav station were Newmar equipment and labled VHF radio, full time dc to dc (24 to12 volt) and Hydra/chain computer. The wires from the box above the sink terminate here somehow. Anyone have a clue as the schematic or wiring diagram. There is a switch on the "chain comp. box that turns off the chain computer AND all the instruments.  You have to kill all the instruments to work on the windlass. Not good if you are underway.
Any information out there??
Bill Reynolds
Cloudstreet SM2K 331


--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Re: VHF antennas

Mark Barter
 

Hi Mark,

That is really helpful, thank you. It is difficult to see how even 6mm cable would be easily run given the setup at the bottom of the masts. On the basis of what you have said I will wait until the masts are down to replace the cables.  There are some other jobs that can be done at the same time. 

Did you leave enough cable at the bottom of the masts to reach the nav station or did you put in a connector near the bases?

Thanks again.
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: VHF antennas

Mark McGovern
 
Edited

Mark,

I successfully ran LMR-400-UF (Ultraflexible) down both the Mizzen and the Main for AIS and for VHF so it can be done.  I was actually even able to run a third length of it down the Mizzen mast for a Wilson Omni Directional Cellular in the Mizzen and one in the Main.  However a few big caveats:

1.  I had the masts down on the ground, not stepped on the boat.  This gave me much better access for pulling the cables than you will have with the masts stepped.  I could basically pull the cables out the hole in the bottom of the mast.  See the picture below:



Obviously, with the mast stepped, you don't have this access.  At the base of each mast you only have the small access ports from which to either feed or pull the cables.  And that access is tight.  Real tight.  If you have not done so, remove the cover and see for yourself.  Yes, you can pull the cables straight out the top of the mast with the cables stepped, but having worked at the top of the mast I can say with certainty that it will not be nearly as easy as doing it standing on solid ground.

2.  I removed a bunch of unused cables from the cable chases in the masts before I ran anything.  I removed:

  • TV antenna cable
  • AM/FM antenna cable
  • Furuno Weather Fax cable
  • Radar cable (I replaced this cable but I ran it up the mast last after I ran all the other cables)
This gave me more room in the cable chase and way less cable on cable friction when pulling the fat 10mm OD LMR-400-UF cables trough the chases.

Other things I learned doing this:

  • Don't count on using the pre-run mouse lines that Amel so kindly left inside the mast to pull cables.  Mine were either already broken from UV degradation or broke the first time I tried to use them. I ran new ones using a fish tape on the mizzen and using the TV antenna that I was removing on the main.  When you are done, be kind to yourself or the next owner and re-run new mouse lines.
  • You will need to remove the lines with the sound deadening foam "bowties" before doing anything.  Be prepared to make new ones to replace these as these lines may be broken already or might break when you try to remove them.  It is NOT optional to replace these.  Others have done so and had the cables "clanging" in a rolly anchorage.  If you are not sure what these are, see this post:  https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/56460
  • Use a cable lubricant when pulling the cables.  I used a product called Aqua Gel II Wire Pulling Lubricant from Home Depot. I got a quart for under $20 and still have ~80% of it left.  It is pretty amazing stuff.
  • At the bottom of the mast the cables all have to make a 180 degree turn to go back up and then another 180 degree turn to go back down the "stub" that is in each of the the mast steps where all the cables run down into the boat.  This 360 turn is essentially a drip loop and prevents water running down the cables and into the boat.  Below is a picture of the mast step so you visualize what I am talking about:



You can see these "stubs" by removing the access ports in the side of the masts.

To summarize:

You can install LMR-400-UF cable in Super Maramu Masts, however, I wouldn't try it with the masts up!  

Feel free to ask me any questions.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Chain Counter

william reynolds
 

My chain counter, which was working properly, suddenly ceased to function.
There are no wiring diagrams that I can find. I searched the Amel site and found several hundred threads but no wiring diagrams. I tried to trace the associated wiring but what I found was a plethora of non associated wires.
The wires to the sensor on the  windless were blue, brown and a yellow/green bonding/ground wire. These led to the area in the fwd cabin where the relays for the windlass were and then  disappeared forward never to be seen again.
In the area above the sink, to the left of the steering rack is a box labeled "computer of the chain. There were 2 large black cables with #16 - green, white and black wires within that went to the counter above on the panel. These connected to smaller grey cables at a terminal strip which then disappeared into a large bundle and I ASSUME go the the chain counter box below the nav station. I when I checked the fuse on the box labled "chain computer" all the instruments quit!
The boxes under the nav station were Newmar equipment and labled VHF radio, full time dc to dc (24 to12 volt) and Hydra/chain computer. The wires from the box above the sink terminate here somehow. Anyone have a clue as the schematic or wiring diagram. There is a switch on the "chain comp. box that turns off the chain computer AND all the instruments.  You have to kill all the instruments to work on the windlass. Not good if you are underway.
Any information out there??
Bill Reynolds
Cloudstreet SM2K 331


Re: Rigging and Terminals

VICTOR MOLERO
 

Good to know Jarek.
Thanks for the reply.
Best.
Victor


Re: Rigging and Terminals

 

Mark is correct about using ACMO's Stainless Steel Turnbuckles with Bronze inserts. 

The reason that chrome-plated bronze is not desirable anymore is that the EPA in Europe and the USA has restricted the chrome-plating process and chemicals that were previously used are outlawed. This has made anything that is chrome-plated less desirable, especially in a marine environment. The same thing applies to chrome-plated bronze winches, etc.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 12:26 AM Mark Barter <markbarter100@...> wrote:
If going for ACMO, which I would do, just make sure you go with stainless for the body. The bronze ones tarnish quickly and can't be satisfactorily polished. 

ACMO's customer service is excellent. I am sure they will be able to advise you if you are at all unsure. 


--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: Rigging and Terminals

Jarek Zemlo
 

Victor Hi,

After purchasing my SM201 in 2020 I changed all for brand new BSI and it is superior quality. I considered ACMO but price/quality ratio was all in favour of BSI.

Jarek
SY NOA BLUE
SM 201


Re: Rigging and Terminals

VICTOR MOLERO
 

Thank you Mark.
Best


Re: Rigging and Terminals

Mark Barter
 

If going for ACMO, which I would do, just make sure you go with stainless for the body. The bronze ones tarnish quickly and can't be satisfactorily polished. 

ACMO's customer service is excellent. I am sure they will be able to advise you if you are at all unsure. 


--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110

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