Date   

Re: Inverter replacement

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Mohammad,

I have altered the 230V switch panel so now all groups are supplied by the inverter. It does mean you need to think about the things you switch on simultaneously but with the original solution that was the case as well. As I replaced the A/C units with inverter units they do not suffer from huge startup currents anymore, also they use less power..
Two groups are excluded from the inverter, as you can guess, both battery chargers are exempt.
The 40A charger can be used only if there is shore or generator power. Activating the 100A charger (when connected to shore power) will cause the Mass Combi to be disconnected from the shore power and start inverting. This is effectively the 60Hz to 50Hz conversion. So now we can run the clothes-washer in Saint Martin without using the generator.

Enclosed is the Schematic Diagram of the 230V side and a picture that shows the new circuit breaker for the Combi Mass.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121



Re: Mystery line/rope found in locker

Jim and Lynsey Watson
 

Hi Arno, 

Looks like a set of lines for hauling the dinghy just out of the water on a halyard. 

Soft shackles to the D rings on the tubes and then connected to the central soft shackle for the halyard. 

Best, 

Jim

No Amel yet... :-) 


On Sun, 27 Jun 2021, 20:05 Arno Luijten, <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Dear Forum,
In one of our cockpit lockers of our A54 I found this line/rope. I knew it was in there but I still fail to come up with a sensible usage of this thing. It seems the previous owner used it frequently but for what I have no clue.
Anyone want to take a guess?

Regards,
Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Mystery line/rope found in locker

Chris Doucette
 

It looks to me like a dinghy harness perhaps?  4 attachments to one all with soft shackles.   


On Jun 27, 2021, at 3:05 PM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Dear Forum,
In one of our cockpit lockers of our A54 I found this line/rope. I knew it was in there but I still fail to come up with a sensible usage of this thing. It seems the previous owner used it frequently but for what I have no clue.
Anyone want to take a guess?

Regards,
Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121

<IMG_1083.jpeg>


Re: Mystery line/rope found in locker

Peter Forbes
 

Dinghy Hoist.

Peter Forbes
Amel 54 #035
La Rochelle
00447836 209730


On 27 Jun 2021, at 20:05, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Dear Forum,
In one of our cockpit lockers of our A54 I found this line/rope. I knew it was in there but I still fail to come up with a sensible usage of this thing. It seems the previous owner used it frequently but for what I have no clue.
Anyone want to take a guess?

Regards,
Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121

<IMG_1083.jpeg>


Mystery line/rope found in locker

Arno Luijten
 

Dear Forum,
In one of our cockpit lockers of our A54 I found this line/rope. I knew it was in there but I still fail to come up with a sensible usage of this thing. It seems the previous owner used it frequently but for what I have no clue.
Anyone want to take a guess?

Regards,
Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Inverter replacement

Nick Newington
 

The one thing to keep in mind is that one day you will sell the boat. The systems need to be idiot proof and understandable to a lay person….I am not saying yours is not.
It is all very well having complex energy systems, lithium batteries etc etc but most boat owners need something simple and operable.

Nick
Feeling the heat in Samos


On 27 Jun 2021, at 17:26, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Hi Nick;

We will currently be using the inverter/charger as an inverter only and keep the balance of systems and chargers as they are. We will not be connecting an AC source to the invert/charger, yet. I looked for the Amel schematics of the inverter/shore power/generator selector switch and found it in the original Amel schematics supplied with the Boat.

It appears that there is a selector switch between the shore power and the generator for the AC panel, except the 220V and the microwave breakers. The power for these goes through another selector switch that selects the power source from the selector output of the generator/shore power switch and the inverter. If there is power coming in from either the generator or shore power, then the inverter is disconnected.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 10:32:06 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Inverter replacement
 
Mohammad,
1.Normally inverter chargers all have sleep modes. There will be a sensitivity setting that looks for a load. Some electronics demand so little power that the big inverter can not see it. This searching will use a little power.

2. If there is an AC source applied to the inverter charger then it will automatically bypass inverter mode and become a charger and all AC demands that would otherwise be met by the inverter are now met by the AC supply.
So in practice if the generator is running or shore power, so long as the 100A charger switch is on then the outlets fed by the inverter will be fed directly by the AC source.
If however the 100A switch is off then the inverter will supply those outlets.
So with Lithium, if you are happy there is enough capacity you could just use the big inverter to supply the whole AC part of the boat simply using the inverters internal change over switch.
I know some people think that is not belt and braces enough…but …..not sure.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML54-019
Patmos



On 27 Jun 2021, at 10:19, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:



Our original 2500W Mastervolt inverter died at the end of the season in 2019. We have purchased a new Mastervolt Mass Combi ultra 3500/24/100 inverter charger as a replacement. This will also act as a backup charger and be ready for future upgrades to Lithium and solar installation. For now, we will just be utilizing the inverter function to have A/C when off grid and generator not running. So, the wiring is fairly simple and the original battery and A/C wiring will be connected to the new unit.

The new unit does not have a remote switch, like the original that is installed on the generator panel in the galley. The new units have control displays that we will be adding in the future. It is possible to leave the inverter on in sleep mode that utilizes minimum power, or go into the engine room and turn unit off at the unit. 

My question is regarding the switching of the A/C going to the main panel when multiple sources of power are available. I’m assuming that the inverter A/C wiring is connected to the priority switch that selects which source of power is feeding the A/C panel Just want to be sure that if the inverter is on and either shore power or generator is supplying power, the inverter is not in the circuit and is OK to leave the unit on all the time, if we elect to do so?


Re: Inverter replacement

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Nick;

We will currently be using the inverter/charger as an inverter only and keep the balance of systems and chargers as they are. We will not be connecting an AC source to the invert/charger, yet. I looked for the Amel schematics of the inverter/shore power/generator selector switch and found it in the original Amel schematics supplied with the Boat.

It appears that there is a selector switch between the shore power and the generator for the AC panel, except the 220V and the microwave breakers. The power for these goes through another selector switch that selects the power source from the selector output of the generator/shore power switch and the inverter. If there is power coming in from either the generator or shore power, then the inverter is disconnected.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 10:32:06 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Inverter replacement
 
Mohammad,
1.Normally inverter chargers all have sleep modes. There will be a sensitivity setting that looks for a load. Some electronics demand so little power that the big inverter can not see it. This searching will use a little power.

2. If there is an AC source applied to the inverter charger then it will automatically bypass inverter mode and become a charger and all AC demands that would otherwise be met by the inverter are now met by the AC supply.
So in practice if the generator is running or shore power, so long as the 100A charger switch is on then the outlets fed by the inverter will be fed directly by the AC source.
If however the 100A switch is off then the inverter will supply those outlets.
So with Lithium, if you are happy there is enough capacity you could just use the big inverter to supply the whole AC part of the boat simply using the inverters internal change over switch.
I know some people think that is not belt and braces enough…but …..not sure.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML54-019
Patmos



On 27 Jun 2021, at 10:19, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:



Our original 2500W Mastervolt inverter died at the end of the season in 2019. We have purchased a new Mastervolt Mass Combi ultra 3500/24/100 inverter charger as a replacement. This will also act as a backup charger and be ready for future upgrades to Lithium and solar installation. For now, we will just be utilizing the inverter function to have A/C when off grid and generator not running. So, the wiring is fairly simple and the original battery and A/C wiring will be connected to the new unit.

The new unit does not have a remote switch, like the original that is installed on the generator panel in the galley. The new units have control displays that we will be adding in the future. It is possible to leave the inverter on in sleep mode that utilizes minimum power, or go into the engine room and turn unit off at the unit. 

My question is regarding the switching of the A/C going to the main panel when multiple sources of power are available. I’m assuming that the inverter A/C wiring is connected to the priority switch that selects which source of power is feeding the A/C panel Just want to be sure that if the inverter is on and either shore power or generator is supplying power, the inverter is not in the circuit and is OK to leave the unit on all the time, if we elect to do so?


Re: Inverter replacement

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks Arno. Very much in line with our future direction. I would appreciate any and all information and schematics you have. It would be greatly appreciated and helpful. 

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Arno Luijten via groups.io <arno.luijten@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 2:34:37 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Inverter replacement
 
Hi Mohammad,

We went through the same problem, the 2kW inverter died (it is actually not a 2,5 kW inverter, the continuous load is only 2kW). So we also replaced the thing with the Mass Combi Ultra.
Although it did take it a step further. I have also installed a full Masterbus network and a Mastervolt Easy Display that you can configure to have a button to switch on/off the inverter remotely. It also connects to the two existing chargers, the alternator controller, the Mastershunt and solar controller.
Next I removed the switchover logic from Amel in the engine room in the grey box next to the generator and installed a 230V/32A relay with a 24V coil. I change the setup in the 230V breaker panel a bit as well.
The switchover for the generator is embedded in the Mass Combi together with the switchover for the inverter as pointed out by Nick.
The result is I now have a fully transparent switchover between sources without the 230V appliances even noting it.
Another thing I now am capable of is converting the 60Hz shore power we have here in Saint Martin to 50Hz using the Mass Combi and the Mastervolt Chargemaster 100A simultaneously, one to do the inverting and one to keep the batteries topped up. This is where the new relay comes into play.
If you like I have drawn a new schematic on how the system is laid out.

I did not have to route new cables apart from some short pieces, I did have to change/relocate the circuit-breaker that was in the feed-line of the inverter (from 100A to 200A). I checked the cable between the breaker and the inverter and it was thick enough for the 175A that it can use, so was the cable between the breaker and the batteries. That saved a lot of effort.

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A45-121


Re: Short Tricolor to Mooring light

Arno Luijten
 

You may have a chafed cable in the mast. Most likely at the top or at the base of the mast. If not and if you have a LopoLight LED masthead light, it may be broken. Their claim about a life expectancy of 50 000 hours is almost hilarious. Most of the original models will not even achieve 5000 hours. The power regulator inside is not very well laid out so you can expect all kinds of failures. But given the fact you have seem to have a firm short circuit the cable is most suspect.
Use a multi-meter to see if you get resistance between either one of the cable-leads and the metal of the mast itself. All leads should read infinite relative to the mast.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121


Re: Inverter replacement

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Mohammad,

We went through the same problem, the 2kW inverter died (it is actually not a 2,5 kW inverter, the continuous load is only 2kW). So we also replaced the thing with the Mass Combi Ultra.
Although it did take it a step further. I have also installed a full Masterbus network and a Mastervolt Easy Display that you can configure to have a button to switch on/off the inverter remotely. It also connects to the two existing chargers, the alternator controller, the Mastershunt and solar controller.
Next I removed the switchover logic from Amel in the engine room in the grey box next to the generator and installed a 230V/32A relay with a 24V coil. I change the setup in the 230V breaker panel a bit as well.
The switchover for the generator is embedded in the Mass Combi together with the switchover for the inverter as pointed out by Nick.
The result is I now have a fully transparent switchover between sources without the 230V appliances even noting it.
Another thing I now am capable of is converting the 60Hz shore power we have here in Saint Martin to 50Hz using the Mass Combi and the Mastervolt Chargemaster 100A simultaneously, one to do the inverting and one to keep the batteries topped up. This is where the new relay comes into play.
If you like I have drawn a new schematic on how the system is laid out.

I did not have to route new cables apart from some short pieces, I did have to change/relocate the circuit-breaker that was in the feed-line of the inverter (from 100A to 200A). I checked the cable between the breaker and the inverter and it was thick enough for the 175A that it can use, so was the cable between the breaker and the batteries. That saved a lot of effort.

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A45-121


Re: Inverter replacement

Nick Newington
 

Mohammad,
1.Normally inverter chargers all have sleep modes. There will be a sensitivity setting that looks for a load. Some electronics demand so little power that the big inverter can not see it. This searching will use a little power.

2. If there is an AC source applied to the inverter charger then it will automatically bypass inverter mode and become a charger and all AC demands that would otherwise be met by the inverter are now met by the AC supply.
So in practice if the generator is running or shore power, so long as the 100A charger switch is on then the outlets fed by the inverter will be fed directly by the AC source.
If however the 100A switch is off then the inverter will supply those outlets.
So with Lithium, if you are happy there is enough capacity you could just use the big inverter to supply the whole AC part of the boat simply using the inverters internal change over switch.
I know some people think that is not belt and braces enough…but …..not sure.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML54-019
Patmos



On 27 Jun 2021, at 10:19, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:



Our original 2500W Mastervolt inverter died at the end of the season in 2019. We have purchased a new Mastervolt Mass Combi ultra 3500/24/100 inverter charger as a replacement. This will also act as a backup charger and be ready for future upgrades to Lithium and solar installation. For now, we will just be utilizing the inverter function to have A/C when off grid and generator not running. So, the wiring is fairly simple and the original battery and A/C wiring will be connected to the new unit.

The new unit does not have a remote switch, like the original that is installed on the generator panel in the galley. The new units have control displays that we will be adding in the future. It is possible to leave the inverter on in sleep mode that utilizes minimum power, or go into the engine room and turn unit off at the unit. 

My question is regarding the switching of the A/C going to the main panel when multiple sources of power are available. I’m assuming that the inverter A/C wiring is connected to the priority switch that selects which source of power is feeding the A/C panel Just want to be sure that if the inverter is on and either shore power or generator is supplying power, the inverter is not in the circuit and is OK to leave the unit on all the time, if we elect to do so?


Inverter replacement

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Our original 2500W Mastervolt inverter died at the end of the season in 2019. We have purchased a new Mastervolt Mass Combi ultra 3500/24/100 inverter charger as a replacement. This will also act as a backup charger and be ready for future upgrades to Lithium and solar installation. For now, we will just be utilizing the inverter function to have A/C when off grid and generator not running. So, the wiring is fairly simple and the original battery and A/C wiring will be connected to the new unit.

The new unit does not have a remote switch, like the original that is installed on the generator panel in the galley. The new units have control displays that we will be adding in the future. It is possible to leave the inverter on in sleep mode that utilizes minimum power, or go into the engine room and turn unit off at the unit. 

My question is regarding the switching of the A/C going to the main panel when multiple sources of power are available. I’m assuming that the inverter A/C wiring is connected to the priority switch that selects which source of power is feeding the A/C panel Just want to be sure that if the inverter is on and either shore power or generator is supplying power, the inverter is not in the circuit and is OK to leave the unit on all the time, if we elect to do so?


Short Tricolor to Mooring light

Mohammad Shirloo
 

A few days ago, when we tried to turn on the mooring light, noticed that the Tricolor light LED also came on and then the mooring light breaker tripped. This would also happen if the tricolor LED was turned on. So it appears we have a short between the two circuits. I disconnected the mooring at the base of the mast and the problem continued. Then I disconnected the tricolor wires at the base of the mast and I could turn on both breakers, without issue. So it appears that the short is somewhere between the base of the mast and the light itself. We have the combo light at the masthead. 


Anyone run into this issue? Would appreciate any ideas as to the most likely source of the short.


Re: VHF antennas

Scott SV Tengah
 

Nick,

Just noticed this re: using the SSB DSC cable as your AIS receive.

The SSB DSC comes from the triatic between the mizzen and main. You can see it on the photo you posted. SSB DSC is around 2200hz I think, whereas AIS is around 162 MHZ, a subset of VHF.

It's your boat, but if I was in your position, I would spend the $50 and get a VHF antenna (not AIS) and mount it on the mizzen. An antenna tuned to VHF/AIS will almost certainly provide better AIS reception than your triatic. 

Two additional benefits: (1) If you decide to get a transceiver later, it's plug and play. (2) If your main VHF antenna dies, you can easily use the mizzen VHF/AIS as a backup.

I'd also check the specs on that cable. If I recall correctly, the cable for the SSB DSC wasn't the same as the cable that Amel installed for my AIS antenna.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Chain Counter

Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
 

I usually carry two spares on Aquarius.

Ken...
Still Alive aboard Aquarius
In Thailand
SM2K#262


24VDC to 12VDC converters: 0V connections

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi all,

On GARULFO, and I suspect on other A54s and maybe SM, there are three 24VDC to 12VDC converters, marked “permanent”, “hydra/iscan v90” and “VHF icom”.

Of those, only the “permanent” one has the input +0V and the output +0V posts connected. 

Does anyone know why that is?
Why shouldn’t the other 2 be the same?

In one pic:



Thanks


Best,


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahiti 




Re: Chain Counter

Thomas Kleman
 

The only thing I would add is that this is an item that you buy 2 at a time. Put one away with your spares and notes on this project. It will next break when you are in Bora Bora.

Tom and Kirstin
SM2K 422
L'ORIENT
Bora Bora, FP


Re: VHF antennas

Scott SV Tengah
 

That was my assessment when I ran the RG-8X with the mast up. We actually tried to feed some LMR-400 through after the fact and it was nearly impossible. I ran RG-8X all the way to the VHF to replace the super thin RG-58u that Amel put in originally. Getting the Rg-8x through the boat from the base of the mast to the VHF wasn't super easy either. Perhaps you can do it with LMR-400, but I wouldn't want to try and risk breaking things inside the little conduits inside the boat.

If I ever need to remove the mast, I will cut the rg-8x and add more splices and the connector. It's not difficult but no need to add those lossy connectors for now, IMO. 

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 10:47 PM Mark Barter <markbarter100@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,

That is really helpful, thank you. It is difficult to see how even 6mm cable would be easily run given the setup at the bottom of the masts. On the basis of what you have said I will wait until the masts are down to replace the cables.  There are some other jobs that can be done at the same time. 

Did you leave enough cable at the bottom of the masts to reach the nav station or did you put in a connector near the bases?

Thanks again.
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Chain Counter

Thomas Peacock
 

Hi Bill,

We had a similar problem on SM 240. Using the chain counter would trip the 24V->12V converter under the nav station. I can’t remember the exact wiring diagram, but the wires indeed run from the chain counter back, I’m not sure if they connect to the small box above the galley by the autohelm, or if they connect to the contacts under the joystick in the cockpit. And, indeed, they do draw their power from the converter under the nav station. 

Assuming the wires are not shorted themselves, the most iikely culprit is the proximity sensor right by the windlass. Ours was blown, and replacing it fixed the problem. You could try disconnecting the sensor, make sure your converter is working, and then test the voltage by the windlass. If indeed your sensor is bad, you can purchase a new one: IB 5072, made by IFM.  I bought it in the US from Radwell; however, IFM is a German company; if you are in the EU you might be able to buy directly from IFM or a European distributor. There is more chatter from me on this site from May 2019 that may be helpful to you. Good luck!

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

On Jun 25, 2021, at 2:48 PM, william reynolds <sail23692@...> wrote:

My chain counter, which was working properly, suddenly ceased to function.
There are no wiring diagrams that I can find. I searched the Amel site and found several hundred threads but no wiring diagrams. I tried to trace the associated wiring but what I found was a plethora of non associated wires.
The wires to the sensor on the  windless were blue, brown and a yellow/green bonding/ground wire. These led to the area in the fwd cabin where the relays for the windlass were and then  disappeared forward never to be seen again.
In the area above the sink, to the left of the steering rack is a box labeled "computer of the chain. There were 2 large black cables with #16 - green, white and black wires within that went to the counter above on the panel. These connected to smaller grey cables at a terminal strip which then disappeared into a large bundle and I ASSUME go the the chain counter box below the nav station. I when I checked the fuse on the box labled "chain computer" all the instruments quit!
The boxes under the nav station were Newmar equipment and labled VHF radio, full time dc to dc (24 to12 volt) and Hydra/chain computer. The wires from the box above the sink terminate here somehow. Anyone have a clue as the schematic or wiring diagram. There is a switch on the "chain comp. box that turns off the chain computer AND all the instruments.  You have to kill all the instruments to work on the windlass. Not good if you are underway.
Any information out there??
Bill Reynolds
Cloudstreet SM2K 331


--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Re: VHF antennas

Mark Barter
 

Hi Mark,

That is really helpful, thank you. It is difficult to see how even 6mm cable would be easily run given the setup at the bottom of the masts. On the basis of what you have said I will wait until the masts are down to replace the cables.  There are some other jobs that can be done at the same time. 

Did you leave enough cable at the bottom of the masts to reach the nav station or did you put in a connector near the bases?

Thanks again.
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110

6181 - 6200 of 64832