Date   

Re: fuel additives & tank cleaning

Geo Uhrich
 

I will

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 7:58 PM JB Duler <jbduler@...> wrote:
Geo,
That sounds great!
Please send me the details.
Best,
JB Duler

On Jul 2, 2021, at 13:47, Geo Uhrich <lingeouhr@...> wrote:

Hello Amel Owners,

For my last two boats I have installed RCI Fuel Purification units in my boats. They are installed before the Racor filters and use centrifugal force to clean the fuel. Dirty fuel drops to the holding area in the bottom and is removed with a purging valve. I also use the optional alarm which alerts you that the holding area is full.

 In my current boat, I also added a bypass system with a pump so that I can purify my fuel on board.

I have never had a problem with dirty fuel and I highly recommend this system for trouble free motoring.

If anyone is interested in finding out more just email me back. I am not affiliated with this company in any way.  However, I will not own a boat without it.

Geo

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:32 PM Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

John, in my experience you will need to be flexible on what fuel additive to use.  The brands available in local shops vary wildly.  Having said that, I’ve seen the Starbrite additive in more places than other brands so I would get a good supply of that one.  


Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem
on the way to Gibraltar 





--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Change seacock on a sharki

Gerhard Mueller
 

The size of the valve is 1_1/4 inch.
This was my old one:


But wrongly I ordered a valve of size 1_1/2 and so had to use a reducing piece:


Better choice are however the ball valves from Trudesign.


--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Port-Saint-Louis, France


Re: fuel additives & tank cleaning

JB Duler
 

Geo,
That sounds great!
Please send me the details.
Best,
JB Duler

On Jul 2, 2021, at 13:47, Geo Uhrich <lingeouhr@...> wrote:

Hello Amel Owners,

For my last two boats I have installed RCI Fuel Purification units in my boats. They are installed before the Racor filters and use centrifugal force to clean the fuel. Dirty fuel drops to the holding area in the bottom and is removed with a purging valve. I also use the optional alarm which alerts you that the holding area is full.

 In my current boat, I also added a bypass system with a pump so that I can purify my fuel on board.

I have never had a problem with dirty fuel and I highly recommend this system for trouble free motoring.

If anyone is interested in finding out more just email me back. I am not affiliated with this company in any way.  However, I will not own a boat without it.

Geo

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:32 PM Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

John, in my experience you will need to be flexible on what fuel additive to use.  The brands available in local shops vary wildly.  Having said that, I’ve seen the Starbrite additive in more places than other brands so I would get a good supply of that one.  


Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem
on the way to Gibraltar 





--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Swivel or Shackle

Patrick McAneny
 

It seems from the three responses ,that I am not the only one with concerns over swivels . I think I will go with two shackles in tandem as Ian suggested . Chuck your concern about hidden corrosion ,was a big problem highlighted in the Practical Sailor article . Diane loved the spoon you guys sent us ,stay cool out there.
Thanks All,
Pat 
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck_Kim_Joy <clacey9@...>
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jul 2, 2021 6:47 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Swivel or Shackle

Hi Pat,
I had a mantus swivel as a replacement for my original amel swivel. I took it off because I could not see the link that attaches to the anchor. It was corroded as suspected. I use a shackle now without issue. 

Best 
Chuck and Kim Back in Martinique visiting Joy with help from TS Elsa. 

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:54 PM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I wanted to change out my chain end for end and while trying to remove my swivel, I stripped the female hex head bolt that secures the pin. I assumed I would buy another swivel until I read in Practical Sailor magazine about the many failures from side loading,etc.,that there has been with swivels. They see no advantage over a simple shackle or two. So I was wondering if other owners just kept it simple and went with a shackle . I was thinking about going with the Mantus ,but I am concerned that if that single seizing wire should chafe ,the bolt could back out.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Miele Microwave on A55 not working

Brent Cameron
 

Joerg, if you are not comfortable with the risk, unplug it and let it sit for two days before opening it up.  Most circuits will discharge over time. if you have a multi-meter, put it on the highest DC voltage setting and measure the voltage across the two leads of any capacitors (they look something like batteries with both terminals at one end) just to ensure that they are fully discharged (odds are after a few days without power they will be but check to be in the safe side). Anything under 10 VDC DV is OK. 

Most microwaves have plastic shielding around them with big warning stickers but I’m not sure about EU ones).   

By the way, the same thing applies for the AC and water pumps on your boats as they also have big run and start capacitors . All capacitors should be treated as big batteries that can store a lethal charge. I always use just one hand when poking around near them as if you accidentally put one hand on either side of the circuit the shortest path is now across your heart.   

My guess is that you’ll find it is the fuse or a loose or corroded  connection. Usually you’ll see scorch marks on the magnetron if it’s gone. 

Brent

On Jul 2, 2021, 7:35 AM -0400, main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io, wrote:

this

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: fuel additives & tank cleaning

 

I believe that the Racor filter should be changed at 400 total hours (Main + Onan) or 9 months, whichever comes first. I followed this rule for almost 11 years without an issue. 

To be safe, even though BeBe was 1.5 years old when we purchased her, I had the tank and fuel cleaned. I used Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment for diesel fuel each time we added fuel. 

I always used the busiest fuel docks and always Baja-filtered a jerry jug of fuel and inspected the filter before filling the tank.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 6:48 AM Geo Uhrich <lingeouhr@...> wrote:
Hello Amel Owners,

For my last two boats I have installed RCI Fuel Purification units in my boats. They are installed before the Racor filters and use centrifugal force to clean the fuel. Dirty fuel drops to the holding area in the bottom and is removed with a purging valve. I also use the optional alarm which alerts you that the holding area is full.

 In my current boat, I also added a bypass system with a pump so that I can purify my fuel on board.

I have never had a problem with dirty fuel and I highly recommend this system for trouble free motoring.

If anyone is interested in finding out more just email me back. I am not affiliated with this company in any way.  However, I will not own a boat without it.

Geo

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:32 PM Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

John, in my experience you will need to be flexible on what fuel additive to use.  The brands available in local shops vary wildly.  Having said that, I’ve seen the Starbrite additive in more places than other brands so I would get a good supply of that one.  


Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem
on the way to Gibraltar 


Re: Change seacock on a sharki

 

Maybe this will help...the photos shown in this are from a SM.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:44 AM Johannes Schmidt <info@...> wrote:
Dieter,

we used a chisel and a sharp screwdriver to remove the fibreglass.

Good luck and be patient on this - removing the shelf covers definitely helped.

Kind regards,

Johannes


Re: fuel additives & tank cleaning

Geo Uhrich
 

Hello Amel Owners,

For my last two boats I have installed RCI Fuel Purification units in my boats. They are installed before the Racor filters and use centrifugal force to clean the fuel. Dirty fuel drops to the holding area in the bottom and is removed with a purging valve. I also use the optional alarm which alerts you that the holding area is full.

 In my current boat, I also added a bypass system with a pump so that I can purify my fuel on board.

I have never had a problem with dirty fuel and I highly recommend this system for trouble free motoring.

If anyone is interested in finding out more just email me back. I am not affiliated with this company in any way.  However, I will not own a boat without it.

Geo

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:32 PM Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

John, in my experience you will need to be flexible on what fuel additive to use.  The brands available in local shops vary wildly.  Having said that, I’ve seen the Starbrite additive in more places than other brands so I would get a good supply of that one.  


Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem
on the way to Gibraltar 


Re: Miele Microwave on A55 not working

Joerg Esdorn
 

Many thanks for the advice.  Given the dangers, I will limit my attempt at repair to finding the fuse.  Hopefully that will be the problem.  Cheers. Joerg 


Re: fuel additives & tank cleaning

Joerg Esdorn
 

John, in my experience you will need to be flexible on what fuel additive to use.  The brands available in local shops vary wildly.  Having said that, I’ve seen the Starbrite additive in more places than other brands so I would get a good supply of that one.  


Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem
on the way to Gibraltar 


Re: fuel additives & tank cleaning

Billy Newport
 
Edited

I have my tank cleaned last year. Access is under the captain berth. There was a fair bit of black stuff and for 250 bucks, well worth doing. The gasket is a complete rubber circle, not a ring. So, I had fuel collecting in the center of the gasket but none leaked out on top of the tank. I would prefer a ring so it just drops back in the tank.

Amel 55#56


Re: Swivel or Shackle

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Hi Pat,
I had a mantus swivel as a replacement for my original amel swivel. I took it off because I could not see the link that attaches to the anchor. It was corroded as suspected. I use a shackle now without issue. 

Best 
Chuck and Kim Back in Martinique visiting Joy with help from TS Elsa. 

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:54 PM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I wanted to change out my chain end for end and while trying to remove my swivel, I stripped the female hex head bolt that secures the pin. I assumed I would buy another swivel until I read in Practical Sailor magazine about the many failures from side loading,etc.,that there has been with swivels. They see no advantage over a simple shackle or two. So I was wondering if other owners just kept it simple and went with a shackle . I was thinking about going with the Mantus ,but I am concerned that if that single seizing wire should chafe ,the bolt could back out.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Parasailor on A54

Joerg Esdorn
 

Scott, I finally had the opportunity to try your parasailor setup.  It works great!  The big difference vs using the tacker is that you can have the mainsail up even at 160-170 TWA without collapsing the Parasailor. That adds a few extra tens to the speed!  


ive attached a video showing Kincsem in about 12 knots true running off the coast of Portugal.  TWA 160, BSP 7.5 knots.  

Thanks again for this great tip!

joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Cadiz, Spain


Re: fuel additives & tank cleaning

Ulrich Michael Dangelmeyer
 

Hi John,

my little contribution from my own experience to your (first) question. after 5 years in the Med in Greece, we have had no problems with our fuel so far. Even if the boat sleeps in the marina up to 8 months a year like now.
But we strictly follow our following rules:
- We always fill up with quality fuel from a regular gas station or have a tanker come from there. Never cheap stuff. always fresh and clean.
- If you do have to make the miserable trip with jerry cans, then always fill through a (Mr. Funnel) filter. can take time, but is safe.
- We always fill up to the top (900 liters) at the end of the season.
- we add proper Grotamar 82, the very first time the shock treatment: 1 liter to 1000 liters of fuel. Grotamar you get as a private person not so easy, but in every chandlery are still the bottles around or you ask in the workshop. The professionals may continue to use the stuff. Grotamar is the best, mil spec and for professional use.
- Alternatively, there is a new Special Diesel protection additive from Liqui Moly. You have to take the stuff against bacteria and fungi. There is also a similar one but tuned to protect the injection system. That is not asked here!
-We regularly check and change our Racor filters so we don't find dirt and water in the glass. That's all.

Of course, we do not know what all has accumulated at the bottom of the tank, but so far no clues. fingers crossed.
Hope this helps you with the routine use.

Fair finds and stay safe. Enjoy the med.
Best
Ulrich
S/Y „Soleil Bleu“, A54#088
Leros GR.
<>

Am 02.07.2021 um 11:13 schrieb John Clanton <clanton@...>:

I haven't seen much on this topic recently and wanted to see if anyone can provide experience, opinion, or speculation....

I have read too many articles that start with "The seas really picked up just as I was motoring into the harbor and all the sudden my engine stopped....."  These are always stories about fuel contamination in the tank that gets stirred up and clogs filters.  I work hard to never author an article like that.

I am selective about where I purchase fuel and have been adding ActiOil, which is distributed by Volvo.  I have dual Racors and inspect them frequently.  Whenever I leave the boat for the winter, I top it up before I leave.

When I returned to the boat a few weeks ago, I had the local Volvo dealer do the annual service, a requirement to keep the warranty valid, and he sent me photos of the Racor filter which showed a reasonable, but not egregious amount of junk.  This would have been junk accumulated in the summer of 2019 as the boat had not been run since then. I showed the photos to Amel Hyeres when I was there a week ago, and they said that is the filter doing its job.  Reasonable answer, but is it one that will keep me from writing one of those scary articles.

Three questions:

1. Can anyone provide a recommendation on a fuel additive for the water and bug problem.  I will be in the Med for the next few years as a reference on climate and market availability.

2. Has anyone ever had their tank opened up and cleaned?  I have heard of fuel polishers who come to the boat and circulate fuel through a big filter, but the local group wants to open up the tank, empty, clean, and inspect.  

3. Have any 55 owners opened up their fuel tank?  I am not sure if the 55 has an access port on the top of the tank or not, and if so, I am not sure how to get to it it.


Thanks to the group for its collective wisdom.


John W. Clanton
S/V Devereux, A55 No. 65
Antibes, France


Re: fuel additives & tank cleaning

Peter Forbes
 

Adding to that question - is it easy does anyone know to remove the access panel to the fuel tank in a 54 and see the bottom of the tank?

Peter

Peter Forbes
Carango Amel 54 #035
La Rochelle
07836 209730

On 2 Jul 2021, at 10:13, John Clanton <clanton@...> wrote:

I haven't seen much on this topic recently and wanted to see if anyone can provide experience, opinion, or speculation....

I have read too many articles that start with "The seas really picked up just as I was motoring into the harbor and all the sudden my engine stopped....."  These are always stories about fuel contamination in the tank that gets stirred up and clogs filters.  I work hard to never author an article like that.

I am selective about where I purchase fuel and have been adding ActiOil, which is distributed by Volvo.  I have dual Racors and inspect them frequently.  Whenever I leave the boat for the winter, I top it up before I leave.

When I returned to the boat a few weeks ago, I had the local Volvo dealer do the annual service, a requirement to keep the warranty valid, and he sent me photos of the Racor filter which showed a reasonable, but not egregious amount of junk.  This would have been junk accumulated in the summer of 2019 as the boat had not been run since then. I showed the photos to Amel Hyeres when I was there a week ago, and they said that is the filter doing its job.  Reasonable answer, but is it one that will keep me from writing one of those scary articles.

Three questions:

1. Can anyone provide a recommendation on a fuel additive for the water and bug problem.  I will be in the Med for the next few years as a reference on climate and market availability.

2. Has anyone ever had their tank opened up and cleaned?  I have heard of fuel polishers who come to the boat and circulate fuel through a big filter, but the local group wants to open up the tank, empty, clean, and inspect.  

3. Have any 55 owners opened up their fuel tank?  I am not sure if the 55 has an access port on the top of the tank or not, and if so, I am not sure how to get to it it.


Thanks to the group for its collective wisdom.


John W. Clanton
S/V Devereux, A55 No. 65
Antibes, France


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

hanspeter baettig
 

Hello Steve
did you in the meantime install a second autopilot ( linear drive )
If yes can you update me how you did install it under the bed in the rear cabine.
You can send it to my email if you want.
hanspeter dot baettig at bluemail dot ch
Thanks
Hanspeter
SM 16, Tamango 2
Curacao

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Freitag, 4. Okt, 2019 um 22:03, Stephen Davis schrieb:

Hi Eamonn,

What you are experiencing sounds very similar to the beginnings of the failure we experienced on Aloha in 2018. We were getting some noise initially from the racks, and it was more difficult to steer in one direction. Eventually, the noise and steering got worse, and then the steering jammed completely as the racks shed enough teeth to jam everything. 

I’m amazed that Amel would stop supporting parts for the steering system on the SM, as more and more boats are likely to have this problem as they age. We were able to obtain new racks, pinion, and steering cables from Amel a little more than a year ago. The conversion to hydraulic steering does not make a lot of sense to me. I’d check back with Amel again, and see if you get the same story. With that said, both the racks and steering cables are provided to Amel by Ultraflex of Italy. The steering cables are marked Ultraflex M61 FT25 498. The cables which came out of our boat were M41 FT23. My theory is that Amel switched from a 23’ cable length to a 25’ cable length somewhere in the production run after our boat was built. While the racks are also from Ultraflex, they are not labeled, and I don’t have a part number. I’ll keep looking for the original documentation they came with, and see and I can get a number. I would think Amel could at least provide the part number for you. We replaced the pinion/steering shaft as well, and I’m assuming this part was machined by Amel, but that is just a guess. While it would be best to replace the pinion with the racks, ours showed very little wear, and could have been reused. 

We concluded that the rack failure was ultimately caused by excessive friction in one steering cable. When we had the cables on the dock, one cable moved easily by hand, and the other was almost impossible to move. We cut the bad cable apart, and it appeared the internal lubrication in the cable had gotten hard over time, and eventually created a lot of internal friction. Why one cable, but not the other is anyone’s guess. 

If you need to do some sailing prior to getting this repaired, I suggest you rig your emergency tiller, and make sure it’s all working as advertised. The emergency tiller works very well on this boat, but I’d prefer never to use it again. We are also going to add a linear drive prior to leaving Hawaii next year, as having one would of allowed us to continue to steer with the autopilot. I have 2 different methods of adding the linear drive to the older SM quadrant, and have not decided which one I’ll use yet. 

Good luck on the steering problems, and I can provide you with some more info on taking it apart if you contact me at flyboyscd at gmail dot com. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72
Ko Olina, Hawaii

On Oct 4, 2019, at 4:05 AM, Eamonn Washington <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:

Hi

Steering to port is harder than steering to starboard on my SM.  I cleaned the rudder, checked for loose steering cables, and they seem to be OK.  I do sometimes hear a quiet metallic clunk when the autopilot makes small steering adjustments, in addition to the normal noise from the rack and pinion system.  I read the articles in this forum, especially what happened to Aloha, and the files section for pictures.  Finally I decided I should replace the steering cables and the rack and pinion system to be on the safe side.

Here is the problem.  Amel do not have the parts anymore.  They do not intend to make them anymore.  I asked for the specifications but instead was told they might make something to convert my system to hydraulics, when they have time.

I would prefer to replace the worn (I assume) rack and pinion system.  I never opened it up, since I read it is difficult in the forum, and I was hoping that I could replace the parts at the same time.  I am not keen in changing to hydraulics, I am not sure what that would entail.

Does anyone have the specifications for the rack and pinion system, and the steering cables?  Do you know if Amel actually made them or subcontracted the work to another company?

I have the Rotary drive unit connected with a chain to the sprocket behind the steering wheel.  I replaced the autopilot with the Raymarine evolution 400 package 3 years ago. I do not have a second autopilot.  I have a spare rotary drive unit (would this work with hydraulic steering?).

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


fuel additives & tank cleaning

John Clanton
 

I haven't seen much on this topic recently and wanted to see if anyone can provide experience, opinion, or speculation....

I have read too many articles that start with "The seas really picked up just as I was motoring into the harbor and all the sudden my engine stopped....."  These are always stories about fuel contamination in the tank that gets stirred up and clogs filters.  I work hard to never author an article like that.

I am selective about where I purchase fuel and have been adding ActiOil, which is distributed by Volvo.  I have dual Racors and inspect them frequently.  Whenever I leave the boat for the winter, I top it up before I leave.

When I returned to the boat a few weeks ago, I had the local Volvo dealer do the annual service, a requirement to keep the warranty valid, and he sent me photos of the Racor filter which showed a reasonable, but not egregious amount of junk.  This would have been junk accumulated in the summer of 2019 as the boat had not been run since then. I showed the photos to Amel Hyeres when I was there a week ago, and they said that is the filter doing its job.  Reasonable answer, but is it one that will keep me from writing one of those scary articles.

Three questions:

1. Can anyone provide a recommendation on a fuel additive for the water and bug problem.  I will be in the Med for the next few years as a reference on climate and market availability.

2. Has anyone ever had their tank opened up and cleaned?  I have heard of fuel polishers who come to the boat and circulate fuel through a big filter, but the local group wants to open up the tank, empty, clean, and inspect.  

3. Have any 55 owners opened up their fuel tank?  I am not sure if the 55 has an access port on the top of the tank or not, and if so, I am not sure how to get to it it.


Thanks to the group for its collective wisdom.


John W. Clanton
S/V Devereux, A55 No. 65
Antibes, France


Re: Swivel or Shackle

Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
 

Hi Pat,

Mantus swivel uses two stainless seizing wires in opposite directions which increases safety of one seizing failure.

Kind regards
Ross and Donna
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Northern Cyprus.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 11:54 pm, Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...> wrote:

I wanted to change out my chain end for end and while trying to remove my swivel, I stripped the female hex head bolt that secures the pin. I assumed I would buy another swivel until I read in Practical Sailor magazine about the many failures from side loading,etc.,that there has been with swivels. They see no advantage over a simple shackle or two. So I was wondering if other owners just kept it simple and went with a shackle . I was thinking about going with the Mantus ,but I am concerned that if that single seizing wire should chafe ,the bolt could back out.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Swivel or Shackle

Ian Park
 

If you use a swivel do not attach it directly to the anchor. Attach a few links of chain, then the swivel and finally the main chain. This means that the swivel always pulls in a straight line.
I have abandoned using a swivel. When removing mine to turn the chain, the hex bolt that holds it together had suffered serious metal deterioration and disintegrated. None of this was visible, and I was lucky not to have lost the anchor. I have not had any serious chain twisting issues even in strong tidal streams.
It was a Kong Swivel which I refastened every time I turned the chain end to end ( at least biannually).

Ian ‘Ocean Hobo’
Isles of Scilly


Re: Swivel or Shackle

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Pat , 

For what it’s worth , we have never used an anchor swivel but have two shackles in tandem between our 33kg Spade and the chain . In 21 years the anchor has always come home without a problem

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM 302 Kilada , Greece ( sea temp 29c with weather warnings about the land temp. Not yet like NW. USA but getting there !) 


On 2 Jul 2021, at 00:51, Michael Winand <mickwinand@...> wrote:


We have a sarca exel no7 straight shackle to the chain,  only had twisted chain once, when anchored in a tidal river.  Fixed it on a deep anchored place 18meters.
Double the seized wire, easy to verify it is not damaged. 
Michael Nebo sm251 

On Fri, 2 Jul 2021, 6:54 am Patrick McAneny via groups.io, <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I wanted to change out my chain end for end and while trying to remove my swivel, I stripped the female hex head bolt that secures the pin. I assumed I would buy another swivel until I read in Practical Sailor magazine about the many failures from side loading,etc.,that there has been with swivels. They see no advantage over a simple shackle or two. So I was wondering if other owners just kept it simple and went with a shackle . I was thinking about going with the Mantus ,but I am concerned that if that single seizing wire should chafe ,the bolt could back out.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans

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