Date   

Re: Wind generators

David Vogel
 

I have installed a Rutland 1200. Happy with it in operation, nearly silent, can hear a slight vibration from the top-of-mizzen mounting, which could be improved with a better anti-vibration mounting pad. But it does not intrude, and we have a subliminal ‘always on’ wind-meter, so we always know what’s going on ‘out there’ when we’re tucked away below. Neighbouring boats hear nothing.

The downside is that the Marlec Rutland MPPT charge controller is not user programmable but must either be returned to the factory, or a new one sent out, I think for about GBP350- when last I asked. I do not use the solar-input side of the Rutland charge controller. In fact, I burnt it out by not respecting the 50V maximum solar input limit for the original installation, but the wind-gen side was not affected. (I now use a Victron MPPT 100/20 for the 400W installed PV array.)

In answer to Bill’s comment, installed cost was about US$2,500-. As at today, the energy produced is 15,746Ah in 18,333 operating hours, at nominal 24V = 378kWh, = $6-/kWh.

In pure bang-for-buck, solar returns better value for money – there is no doubt about that. However, when on-passage, we find that with a brisk breeze abeam or forward, we are producing 10-15 Amps of the windgen, which more than offsets the additional load of nav-station and autopilot; the same when we have AWS 20knots from astern. And often this happens in cloudy conditions, so we welcome the complimentary/supplementary nature of our wind-power generation capacity.

As an aside, we do not routinely run our shaft-driven alternator, as I wonder about the value-for-money in terms of accruing operating hours towards the 900-hourly C-Drive overhaul period …

Hope this provides some value to the group.

David
SM#396, Perigee
Savusavu, Fiji

+++
From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Rouse <brouse@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, 21 August 2021 at 1:54 am
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Wind generators

Wind - I always recommend solar. 

I tried for years to get real-life data on any wind generator and found no actual useable data to construct a cost/benefit model. Sure I got the reports like, "one day a month ago we got XXX amps from the wind." Or, "it is always turning."

Bill




CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@gmail.com
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
Website: www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 






View My Training Calendar

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:42 AM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@gmail.com> wrote:
Do not now about wind, but this year we replaced our 5 year old solar panels and replaced the with Sunpower maxium 3. 2x400 w is just a fraction larger surface that the old 3x150 w, A hug improvements. I often see peak watt close to 500w and occasionally around 540 w, During July we touched 3 Kwh for a full day each, yesterday as an example we reached 2,3 but the battery was full well before the end of the day and superhot (high temp reduce output)  We have litium and 1,4Kw of solar so do not need to run the panels constantly during a day, even though we cock food on induction, and make hot water through the inverter. But it is still summer and long day, sure I will need them all when days get shorter
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259, Gran Canaria.


Re: Wind generators

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Good clip Nick. I have been in 50 knot plus quite a number of times and I remember one squall of 65 but I was coastal and the wind was off shore so there was no sea. When it gets nasty is off shore where there is no land as a lee to reduce the seas. I have been in one  sustained storm off shore. Constant wind of 50 plus knots for a start. Big seas but as you scanned the horizon about every half mile in all directions there were seas climbing on top of each other one two three and then a huge breaking wave. Then as the wind increased to 70knots the seas just got bigger and those breaking waves got massive. We were sailing on half a storm jib, fore reaching which had us climbing very steep seas diagonally. They were significantly taller than our mast. We got hit by two of those on top of each other breaking seas. One broke right over the boat, the other hit the stern with a massive whump driving the stern sideways 45 degrees. I believe we survived because we were sailing, and we were a moving target, I believe if we had been hove to or worse lying a hull we could have been rolled.. We averaged 6.8 knots by GPS fortunately towards New Zealand through the night. When we got into the lee of the Northern peninsular even 30 miles out the wind didn't drop at all but the breaking seas stopped and I knew we were safe.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 31 August 2021 at 00:41 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Here is a very short clip of a 50 knot gust. The stronger ones did not get filmed. Nick S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 Greece
 


 



 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:30, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi Nick. Couple of things. You never have to tether a super wind. The geared feathering blades are cdesigned for and are capable of handling hurricane force winds, so top of the mizzen is the safest place. No chance of being hit by the blades. Second point you mention wind getting under solar panels.. Imagine 4 big panels as big as a back yard on top of a stern tower, As many are doing now. Now  enisage storm force winds healing the boat 30 or even 45  or 50 degrees. That storm force wind would get under the panels. Hope the tower is very strong. Then at the same time throw a breaking wave sideways over the stern. There are setups for Marina hoppers and there are set upsfor serious ocean sailing. We  need to.plan.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 20:16 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

Agree 100%. I wish I had researched the WG market better before buying and installing in 2017.  My last boat had a Rutland but a smaller model. Trouble free for ten years and no noise. The output was low though.

I may well install a Superwind, as the mounting arrangement I already have only needs some minor adapting. Still mulling it over. The top of the mizzen is a great place for one but it is a long way up there if one has to lash the blades….


Recently I enjoyed some pretty strong winds, with gusts well into sixty knot range, and sustained winds of 40 knots. These conditions burned out the Rutlands as the stop mechanism could not hold them. No way anyone was getting close to the WG to turn it. Too dangerous for sure.

The idea that one can keep piling on extra solar panels at low cost for amps produced can only go so far. My set up was fine but the stern solar arch/dinghy davits is extremely robust and the solar panels well mounted with eight fixing points bolted to lugs.I would not have been happy with significantly more solar area in such conditions.  As for rail mounted panels, that would have been a horror show. I think one really needs to plan on occasional storms or other forms of severe weather. Solar panels can be pretty streamline but if the wind was to somehow get underneath one, a dangerous situation could develop quite quickly. I am thinking West Indian style corrugated roof sheets flying around in a hurricane. 

Regards

Nick (back in the UK)

S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019 
Leros









On 30 Aug 2021, at 07:32, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Nick. Your comment  that had you bought a super wind first is the telling one. The expense and failure associated with the model you bought is critical in how you see  wind. Consider how you might feel if you had had a super wind trouble free on top of your mizzen for 10 years. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 17:48 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" < ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Surely it depends on where you cruise and the time of year.
To give an extreme example; in the north of the U.K. during winter there is precious little sun, about 6 hours of daylight and 18 of darkness. Solar will not produce much, whilst wind will perform as it blows like hell.
I am not planning on a winter cruise of the Hebrides!

Another example is Lanzarote in the Canary Islands. It blows the whole time and is sunny too. Both will perform.

I have a pair of Rutland 1200’s and they had a remote monitor with accumulative amps generated. 
Each Rutland came with a controller that could also do solar.
So I had a port controller of the Rutland with one 265a solar panel.
And a starboard controller doing the starboard WG and Starboard solar panel.
They both had counters on the remotes.
Solar out performed wind most of the time. However whilst sailing in strong winds even downwind the WG ‘s we’re useful, especially the windward WG. I found that at night running everything with the autopilot working hard I had full batteries.
Unfortunately I did not record the figures of cumulative amps generated.
So the set up was great in principle….but 

the controllers got hot and seamed to be a bit primitive.
So I changed to a single Blue Sky Solar controller for both panels,
And continued with the WG controllers for them.

The WG’s were silent re the blades but created a harmonic hum that came down the frame into the aft cabin.

The WG’s failed and went back for repair (free)

Now they failed again and burned out. Rutland have said they will repair them for free.

So now I have lugged the whole lot back to the U.K. for repair but I have had it with the brand. The company has been good but frankly they are just not reliable enough for Amelia.
So I will try and eBay them after service.

On a cost benefit basis, including the hassle and irritation I am afraid that solar has been an outright winner and wind a painful expensive hassle.

In conclusion for my cruising plans that may include some summer higher latitude forays solar will be the backbone of renewable power. I may add a Superwind 350, we shall see.

Had I bought Superwind 350 from the beginning I may have had a great set up. The trouble is that they are damn expensive compared to solar!

Nick
S/Y Amelia
AML54-019 back stored ashore in Leros as I am 83 days out of 90 in Schengen.


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 04:54, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

all good

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 13:01 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I was pulling your leg… :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 30 Aug 2021, at 13:00, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie < s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 



 


 


 


 



 


 


 


Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Paul Harries
 

I am trying to improve my understanding of pros and cons of arch mounted panels vs. soft panels. 

Is hard base preferable to soft bimini mounted flexible panels?

Are the soft bimini's going to be replaced with hard extensions of dodger to facilitate solar panels? 

It is interesting to see what Amel has done with the 50, is this the way of the future?

Theory is one thing but all of your experiences with these technologies is far more relevant.

--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: unknown part

Olivier Beaute
 

Hello,

these are original AMEL wedges that you hang on the portside cockpit locker's edge (when the lid is open) to leave the lid half open when you're inflating your scube tanks.

Olivier

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 02:53:09 PM GMT+2, Ceriolim via groups.io <ceriolim@...> wrote:


Good day to everyone.
I 'm here hopefuly to find out if anyone of you can tell me what the part in the photo herewith attached is used for.
I presume is something relatet to my scuba diving air compressor but not sure...and certanly not able to use it.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Maury SM2K   447.


Re: Mainsail furler gasket.

Wolfgang Weber
 

1.) I replaced the ball bearing  of the gearbox with capsulated SKF Explorer 6005-2RSH in June 2015 - no services needed or problems after that time.
2.) I protect the top /sealing of the furler motor with silicon grease and an extra rubberring.

Wolfgang Weber  SY Elise Amel 54#162  La Rochelle


Re: Wind generators

Gregory Dmitriev
 

100% agree


unknown part

Ceriolim
 

Good day to everyone.
I 'm here hopefuly to find out if anyone of you can tell me what the part in the photo herewith attached is used for.
I presume is something relatet to my scuba diving air compressor but not sure...and certanly not able to use it.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Maury SM2K   447.


Re: Wind generators

Nick Newington
 

Here is a very short clip of a 50 knot gust. The stronger ones did not get filmed. Nick S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 Greece



On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:30, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi Nick. Couple of things. You never have to tether a super wind. The geared feathering blades are cdesigned for and are capable of handling hurricane force winds, so top of the mizzen is the safest place. No chance of being hit by the blades. Second point you mention wind getting under solar panels.. Imagine 4 big panels as big as a back yard on top of a stern tower, As many are doing now. Now  enisage storm force winds healing the boat 30 or even 45  or 50 degrees. That storm force wind would get under the panels. Hope the tower is very strong. Then at the same time throw a breaking wave sideways over the stern. There are setups for Marina hoppers and there are set upsfor serious ocean sailing. We  need to.plan.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 20:16 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

Agree 100%. I wish I had researched the WG market better before buying and installing in 2017.  My last boat had a Rutland but a smaller model. Trouble free for ten years and no noise. The output was low though.

I may well install a Superwind, as the mounting arrangement I already have only needs some minor adapting. Still mulling it over. The top of the mizzen is a great place for one but it is a long way up there if one has to lash the blades….


Recently I enjoyed some pretty strong winds, with gusts well into sixty knot range, and sustained winds of 40 knots. These conditions burned out the Rutlands as the stop mechanism could not hold them. No way anyone was getting close to the WG to turn it. Too dangerous for sure.

The idea that one can keep piling on extra solar panels at low cost for amps produced can only go so far. My set up was fine but the stern solar arch/dinghy davits is extremely robust and the solar panels well mounted with eight fixing points bolted to lugs.I would not have been happy with significantly more solar area in such conditions.  As for rail mounted panels, that would have been a horror show. I think one really needs to plan on occasional storms or other forms of severe weather. Solar panels can be pretty streamline but if the wind was to somehow get underneath one, a dangerous situation could develop quite quickly. I am thinking West Indian style corrugated roof sheets flying around in a hurricane. 

Regards

Nick (back in the UK)

S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019 
Leros









On 30 Aug 2021, at 07:32, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Nick. Your comment  that had you bought a super wind first is the telling one. The expense and failure associated with the model you bought is critical in how you see  wind. Consider how you might feel if you had had a super wind trouble free on top of your mizzen for 10 years. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 17:48 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" < ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Surely it depends on where you cruise and the time of year.
To give an extreme example; in the north of the U.K. during winter there is precious little sun, about 6 hours of daylight and 18 of darkness. Solar will not produce much, whilst wind will perform as it blows like hell.
I am not planning on a winter cruise of the Hebrides!

Another example is Lanzarote in the Canary Islands. It blows the whole time and is sunny too. Both will perform.

I have a pair of Rutland 1200’s and they had a remote monitor with accumulative amps generated. 
Each Rutland came with a controller that could also do solar.
So I had a port controller of the Rutland with one 265a solar panel.
And a starboard controller doing the starboard WG and Starboard solar panel.
They both had counters on the remotes.
Solar out performed wind most of the time. However whilst sailing in strong winds even downwind the WG ‘s we’re useful, especially the windward WG. I found that at night running everything with the autopilot working hard I had full batteries.
Unfortunately I did not record the figures of cumulative amps generated.
So the set up was great in principle….but 

the controllers got hot and seamed to be a bit primitive.
So I changed to a single Blue Sky Solar controller for both panels,
And continued with the WG controllers for them.

The WG’s were silent re the blades but created a harmonic hum that came down the frame into the aft cabin.

The WG’s failed and went back for repair (free)

Now they failed again and burned out. Rutland have said they will repair them for free.

So now I have lugged the whole lot back to the U.K. for repair but I have had it with the brand. The company has been good but frankly they are just not reliable enough for Amelia.
So I will try and eBay them after service.

On a cost benefit basis, including the hassle and irritation I am afraid that solar has been an outright winner and wind a painful expensive hassle.

In conclusion for my cruising plans that may include some summer higher latitude forays solar will be the backbone of renewable power. I may add a Superwind 350, we shall see.

Had I bought Superwind 350 from the beginning I may have had a great set up. The trouble is that they are damn expensive compared to solar!

Nick
S/Y Amelia
AML54-019 back stored ashore in Leros as I am 83 days out of 90 in Schengen.


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 04:54, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

all good

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 13:01 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I was pulling your leg… :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 30 Aug 2021, at 13:00, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie < s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 



 


 


 


 



 


 


Re: Wind generators

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Nick. Couple of things. You never have to tether a super wind. The geared feathering blades are cdesigned for and are capable of handling hurricane force winds, so top of the mizzen is the safest place. No chance of being hit by the blades. Second point you mention wind getting under solar panels.. Imagine 4 big panels as big as a back yard on top of a stern tower, As many are doing now. Now  enisage storm force winds healing the boat 30 or even 45  or 50 degrees. That storm force wind would get under the panels. Hope the tower is very strong. Then at the same time throw a breaking wave sideways over the stern. There are setups for Marina hoppers and there are set upsfor serious ocean sailing. We  need to.plan.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 20:16 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

Agree 100%. I wish I had researched the WG market better before buying and installing in 2017.  My last boat had a Rutland but a smaller model. Trouble free for ten years and no noise. The output was low though.

I may well install a Superwind, as the mounting arrangement I already have only needs some minor adapting. Still mulling it over. The top of the mizzen is a great place for one but it is a long way up there if one has to lash the blades….


Recently I enjoyed some pretty strong winds, with gusts well into sixty knot range, and sustained winds of 40 knots. These conditions burned out the Rutlands as the stop mechanism could not hold them. No way anyone was getting close to the WG to turn it. Too dangerous for sure.

The idea that one can keep piling on extra solar panels at low cost for amps produced can only go so far. My set up was fine but the stern solar arch/dinghy davits is extremely robust and the solar panels well mounted with eight fixing points bolted to lugs.I would not have been happy with significantly more solar area in such conditions.  As for rail mounted panels, that would have been a horror show. I think one really needs to plan on occasional storms or other forms of severe weather. Solar panels can be pretty streamline but if the wind was to somehow get underneath one, a dangerous situation could develop quite quickly. I am thinking West Indian style corrugated roof sheets flying around in a hurricane. 

Regards

Nick (back in the UK)

S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019 
Leros









On 30 Aug 2021, at 07:32, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Nick. Your comment  that had you bought a super wind first is the telling one. The expense and failure associated with the model you bought is critical in how you see  wind. Consider how you might feel if you had had a super wind trouble free on top of your mizzen for 10 years. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 17:48 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" < ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Surely it depends on where you cruise and the time of year.
To give an extreme example; in the north of the U.K. during winter there is precious little sun, about 6 hours of daylight and 18 of darkness. Solar will not produce much, whilst wind will perform as it blows like hell.
I am not planning on a winter cruise of the Hebrides!

Another example is Lanzarote in the Canary Islands. It blows the whole time and is sunny too. Both will perform.

I have a pair of Rutland 1200’s and they had a remote monitor with accumulative amps generated. 
Each Rutland came with a controller that could also do solar.
So I had a port controller of the Rutland with one 265a solar panel.
And a starboard controller doing the starboard WG and Starboard solar panel.
They both had counters on the remotes.
Solar out performed wind most of the time. However whilst sailing in strong winds even downwind the WG ‘s we’re useful, especially the windward WG. I found that at night running everything with the autopilot working hard I had full batteries.
Unfortunately I did not record the figures of cumulative amps generated.
So the set up was great in principle….but 

the controllers got hot and seamed to be a bit primitive.
So I changed to a single Blue Sky Solar controller for both panels,
And continued with the WG controllers for them.

The WG’s were silent re the blades but created a harmonic hum that came down the frame into the aft cabin.

The WG’s failed and went back for repair (free)

Now they failed again and burned out. Rutland have said they will repair them for free.

So now I have lugged the whole lot back to the U.K. for repair but I have had it with the brand. The company has been good but frankly they are just not reliable enough for Amelia.
So I will try and eBay them after service.

On a cost benefit basis, including the hassle and irritation I am afraid that solar has been an outright winner and wind a painful expensive hassle.

In conclusion for my cruising plans that may include some summer higher latitude forays solar will be the backbone of renewable power. I may add a Superwind 350, we shall see.

Had I bought Superwind 350 from the beginning I may have had a great set up. The trouble is that they are damn expensive compared to solar!

Nick
S/Y Amelia
AML54-019 back stored ashore in Leros as I am 83 days out of 90 in Schengen.


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 04:54, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

all good

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 13:01 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I was pulling your leg… :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 30 Aug 2021, at 13:00, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie < s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 



 


 


 


 



 


 


Re: Wind generators

Nick Newington
 

Hi Danny,

Agree 100%. I wish I had researched the WG market better before buying and installing in 2017.  My last boat had a Rutland but a smaller model. Trouble free for ten years and no noise. The output was low though.

I may well install a Superwind, as the mounting arrangement I already have only needs some minor adapting. Still mulling it over. The top of the mizzen is a great place for one but it is a long way up there if one has to lash the blades….


Recently I enjoyed some pretty strong winds, with gusts well into sixty knot range, and sustained winds of 40 knots. These conditions burned out the Rutlands as the stop mechanism could not hold them. No way anyone was getting close to the WG to turn it. Too dangerous for sure.

The idea that one can keep piling on extra solar panels at low cost for amps produced can only go so far. My set up was fine but the stern solar arch/dinghy davits is extremely robust and the solar panels well mounted with eight fixing points bolted to lugs.I would not have been happy with significantly more solar area in such conditions.  As for rail mounted panels, that would have been a horror show. I think one really needs to plan on occasional storms or other forms of severe weather. Solar panels can be pretty streamline but if the wind was to somehow get underneath one, a dangerous situation could develop quite quickly. I am thinking West Indian style corrugated roof sheets flying around in a hurricane. 

Regards

Nick (back in the UK)

S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019 
Leros









On 30 Aug 2021, at 07:32, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Nick. Your comment  that had you bought a super wind first is the telling one. The expense and failure associated with the model you bought is critical in how you see  wind. Consider how you might feel if you had had a super wind trouble free on top of your mizzen for 10 years. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 17:48 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Surely it depends on where you cruise and the time of year.
To give an extreme example; in the north of the U.K. during winter there is precious little sun, about 6 hours of daylight and 18 of darkness. Solar will not produce much, whilst wind will perform as it blows like hell.
I am not planning on a winter cruise of the Hebrides!

Another example is Lanzarote in the Canary Islands. It blows the whole time and is sunny too. Both will perform.

I have a pair of Rutland 1200’s and they had a remote monitor with accumulative amps generated. 
Each Rutland came with a controller that could also do solar.
So I had a port controller of the Rutland with one 265a solar panel.
And a starboard controller doing the starboard WG and Starboard solar panel.
They both had counters on the remotes.
Solar out performed wind most of the time. However whilst sailing in strong winds even downwind the WG ‘s we’re useful, especially the windward WG. I found that at night running everything with the autopilot working hard I had full batteries.
Unfortunately I did not record the figures of cumulative amps generated.
So the set up was great in principle….but 

the controllers got hot and seamed to be a bit primitive.
So I changed to a single Blue Sky Solar controller for both panels,
And continued with the WG controllers for them.

The WG’s were silent re the blades but created a harmonic hum that came down the frame into the aft cabin.

The WG’s failed and went back for repair (free)

Now they failed again and burned out. Rutland have said they will repair them for free.

So now I have lugged the whole lot back to the U.K. for repair but I have had it with the brand. The company has been good but frankly they are just not reliable enough for Amelia.
So I will try and eBay them after service.

On a cost benefit basis, including the hassle and irritation I am afraid that solar has been an outright winner and wind a painful expensive hassle.

In conclusion for my cruising plans that may include some summer higher latitude forays solar will be the backbone of renewable power. I may add a Superwind 350, we shall see.

Had I bought Superwind 350 from the beginning I may have had a great set up. The trouble is that they are damn expensive compared to solar!

Nick
S/Y Amelia
AML54-019 back stored ashore in Leros as I am 83 days out of 90 in Schengen.


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 04:54, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

all good

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 13:01 Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I was pulling your leg… :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 30 Aug 2021, at 13:00, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie < s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 



 


 


 


 



Re: Wind generators

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Nick. Your comment  that had you bought a super wind first is the telling one. The expense and failure associated with the model you bought is critical in how you see  wind. Consider how you might feel if you had had a super wind trouble free on top of your mizzen for 10 years. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 17:48 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Surely it depends on where you cruise and the time of year.
To give an extreme example; in the north of the U.K. during winter there is precious little sun, about 6 hours of daylight and 18 of darkness. Solar will not produce much, whilst wind will perform as it blows like hell.
I am not planning on a winter cruise of the Hebrides!

Another example is Lanzarote in the Canary Islands. It blows the whole time and is sunny too. Both will perform.

I have a pair of Rutland 1200’s and they had a remote monitor with accumulative amps generated. 
Each Rutland came with a controller that could also do solar.
So I had a port controller of the Rutland with one 265a solar panel.
And a starboard controller doing the starboard WG and Starboard solar panel.
They both had counters on the remotes.
Solar out performed wind most of the time. However whilst sailing in strong winds even downwind the WG ‘s we’re useful, especially the windward WG. I found that at night running everything with the autopilot working hard I had full batteries.
Unfortunately I did not record the figures of cumulative amps generated.
So the set up was great in principle….but 

the controllers got hot and seamed to be a bit primitive.
So I changed to a single Blue Sky Solar controller for both panels,
And continued with the WG controllers for them.

The WG’s were silent re the blades but created a harmonic hum that came down the frame into the aft cabin.

The WG’s failed and went back for repair (free)

Now they failed again and burned out. Rutland have said they will repair them for free.

So now I have lugged the whole lot back to the U.K. for repair but I have had it with the brand. The company has been good but frankly they are just not reliable enough for Amelia.
So I will try and eBay them after service.

On a cost benefit basis, including the hassle and irritation I am afraid that solar has been an outright winner and wind a painful expensive hassle.

In conclusion for my cruising plans that may include some summer higher latitude forays solar will be the backbone of renewable power. I may add a Superwind 350, we shall see.

Had I bought Superwind 350 from the beginning I may have had a great set up. The trouble is that they are damn expensive compared to solar!

Nick
S/Y Amelia
AML54-019 back stored ashore in Leros as I am 83 days out of 90 in Schengen.


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 04:54, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

all good

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 13:01 Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I was pulling your leg… :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 30 Aug 2021, at 13:00, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie < s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 



 


 


 


 


Re: Wind generators

Nick Newington
 

Surely it depends on where you cruise and the time of year.
To give an extreme example; in the north of the U.K. during winter there is precious little sun, about 6 hours of daylight and 18 of darkness. Solar will not produce much, whilst wind will perform as it blows like hell.
I am not planning on a winter cruise of the Hebrides!

Another example is Lanzarote in the Canary Islands. It blows the whole time and is sunny too. Both will perform.

I have a pair of Rutland 1200’s and they had a remote monitor with accumulative amps generated. 
Each Rutland came with a controller that could also do solar.
So I had a port controller of the Rutland with one 265a solar panel.
And a starboard controller doing the starboard WG and Starboard solar panel.
They both had counters on the remotes.
Solar out performed wind most of the time. However whilst sailing in strong winds even downwind the WG ‘s we’re useful, especially the windward WG. I found that at night running everything with the autopilot working hard I had full batteries.
Unfortunately I did not record the figures of cumulative amps generated.
So the set up was great in principle….but 

the controllers got hot and seamed to be a bit primitive.
So I changed to a single Blue Sky Solar controller for both panels,
And continued with the WG controllers for them.

The WG’s were silent re the blades but created a harmonic hum that came down the frame into the aft cabin.

The WG’s failed and went back for repair (free)

Now they failed again and burned out. Rutland have said they will repair them for free.

So now I have lugged the whole lot back to the U.K. for repair but I have had it with the brand. The company has been good but frankly they are just not reliable enough for Amelia.
So I will try and eBay them after service.

On a cost benefit basis, including the hassle and irritation I am afraid that solar has been an outright winner and wind a painful expensive hassle.

In conclusion for my cruising plans that may include some summer higher latitude forays solar will be the backbone of renewable power. I may add a Superwind 350, we shall see.

Had I bought Superwind 350 from the beginning I may have had a great set up. The trouble is that they are damn expensive compared to solar!

Nick
S/Y Amelia
AML54-019 back stored ashore in Leros as I am 83 days out of 90 in Schengen.



On 30 Aug 2021, at 04:54, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



all good

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 13:01 Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I was pulling your leg… :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 30 Aug 2021, at 13:00, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie < s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 



 


 


Re: Wind generators

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Alan,

simple fellow that I am, I see valuable input from my super wind 350. Anything over 15knots apparent my super wind keeps my autohelm, radar, chart plotter and instruments functioning. Don't want any more than that. I have yet to hear a super wind owner slag them off.

Installation and positioning are critical. Mine is on top of the mizzen, couldn't be better. No noise, no vibration.

After 10 years the bearings wore out. Fist time up the mast to service it. Do me.

I know how much I would miss it on ocean passages because once I had a bad connection, couldn't understand why my batteries were not keeping up. Once I fixed that connection the difference was dramatic. 

I am not trying to power a floating marina condo with untold land type appliances.

What I want on an ocean passage is power to run my auto helm radios radar and instruments reliably, and to do that I need redundancy. Wind, solar and diesel. 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 14:01 Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

I think that most wind generator enthusiasts are enthused without much information on how they perform in the real world. 
The curves of the Superwind 350 and the D400 show pretty much the same output vs windspeed up to 25knots.
They are similar in design - both 3-phase axial generators.
At 15 knots they both say they produce about 3A at 15 knots and about 7.5A at 20 knots  - 24V - see attached.
The Superwind levels off at 25 knots / 14.5A output due to its auto feathering system. The D400 keeps going at higher wind speeds 20A @ 30 knots, 27A @35 knots.
Of course, all these numbers are assuming a constant wind speed from a constant direction..... a luxury ideal that we rarely see.
And that confirms my previous comment, the only time I ever saw useful output from our D400 was heading up wind in  35+ knots, but I wouldn't pay wind generator money just to have that experience!
In general terms, under most conditions, it seems they don't put out much at all and the kW/$ equation just doesn't add up to me.
Still each to his own. Belief seems to be as important as evidence these days in some quarters.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Wind generators

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

all good

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 13:01 Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I was pulling your leg… :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 30 Aug 2021, at 13:00, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie < s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 



 


 


Re: Wind generators

Alan Leslie
 

I think that most wind generator enthusiasts are enthused without much information on how they perform in the real world. 
The curves of the Superwind 350 and the D400 show pretty much the same output vs windspeed up to 25knots.
They are similar in design - both 3-phase axial generators.
At 15 knots they both say they produce about 3A at 15 knots and about 7.5A at 20 knots  - 24V - see attached.
The Superwind levels off at 25 knots / 14.5A output due to its auto feathering system. The D400 keeps going at higher wind speeds 20A @ 30 knots, 27A @35 knots.
Of course, all these numbers are assuming a constant wind speed from a constant direction..... a luxury ideal that we rarely see.
And that confirms my previous comment, the only time I ever saw useful output from our D400 was heading up wind in  35+ knots, but I wouldn't pay wind generator money just to have that experience!
In general terms, under most conditions, it seems they don't put out much at all and the kW/$ equation just doesn't add up to me.
Still each to his own. Belief seems to be as important as evidence these days in some quarters.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Wind generators

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hi Danny,

I was pulling your leg… :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 30 Aug 2021, at 13:00, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 



Re: Wind generators

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 


Re: Wind generators

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua



On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Wind generators

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Wind generators

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

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