Date   

Re: Meltem

Denis Foster
 

Interesting the 4LHTE has almost 60% more displacement and a little less output in Hp/Kw. It was also used in Discovery 55.
Probably a little heavy and bulky compared to the 4JH series.

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 31 août 2021 à 16:58, JB Duler <jbduler@...> a écrit :


Denis, I have the 125hp turbocharged 4Jh3-DTE Yanmar with 2,200 hours. It was installed in 2000.

--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Alex Comer-Crook
 

From most of the data and tests I have seen over recent years rigid panels will give you at least a 30% real-world output advantage for the same advertised output vs. flexible panels - potentially more. This is assuming they are both high quality brand names (sunpower, solbien etc.) and have similar charge controller arrangements etc.

This is almost entirely due to superior heat dissipation of rigid panels that are generally on an arch instead of being glued down on a hard surface or attached to hot bimini fabric. Flexible panels often also have a protective layer on top to make them walkable which decreases efficiency even more. My general thoughts are that if you want to go the solar route and run most things you should have an arch with rigid panels primarily and then add a few flexible panels just for supplementary power if required. MPPT charge controllers are relatively cheap so an additional array is often worth it long term to avoid shading issues. You should split your arrays/sections between items that would shade them (i.e your mast) and then you can run the sections in series if you need to. Depending on budget it might be worthwhile upgrading older 12v/18v panels as most panels these days are higher voltage so you don't have to worry as much about running them in series to charge 24v.

Flexible panels are very useful and have their place but if you want to be a liveaboard and run most things off solar then I don't think you can get away without 2-3 high output rigid panels on an arch.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 10:20 AM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:
Bill
The loss come from shadow, IF you have the panels in parallel and shadow on one, the other panels give good output, but if they are in serie the one in shadow negatively effect the other panel not in shadow. In an ideal world and no shadow at all no difference between parallel or serie.
Paul


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Paul Osterberg
 

Bill
The loss come from shadow, IF you have the panels in parallel and shadow on one, the other panels give good output, but if they are in serie the one in shadow negatively effect the other panel not in shadow. In an ideal world and no shadow at all no difference between parallel or serie.
Paul


Re: Bowman DC60-XCC Transmission Oil Cooler Failure; ZF Hurth ZF 25; Yanmar 4JH3-HTE #lessons

Alain Durante
 

Dear All,

 

Just ordered the Mota G058-235-1 / CC32 oil cooler from Mota and their service is fantastic, very fast and friendly.

 

Reasonable price  at 117€  without VAT and shipping.

 

You can contact them at MOTA Sales Team contact@...

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain Durante

Amel 54-21 / Meige

Currently in Antibes

 

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de Matt Salatino via groups.io
Envoyé : jeudi 26 août 2021 17:15
À : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bowman DC60-XCC Transmission Oil Cooler Failure; ZF Hurth ZF 25; Yanmar 4JH3-HTE #lessons #lessons

 

Looks like this?

 

 

~~~~~~Matt



On Aug 26, 2021, at 6:06 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:



Yep, I could not find C9 made by Mota



Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

 

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 10:03 AM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Looks a bit different than that. Says “C9” on it.

~~~~~~Matt



On Aug 26, 2021, at 6:00 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:



Matt,

 

Thanks for that. It is likely this cooler:

<image.png>

 


Tubestack diametre (Ømm) 58
Connection on cold side Ø52mm hose
Connection on hot side G3/8" (BSP) thread
Tubes material Copper-Nickel (CuNi10)
Headers material Brass
Housing material Extruded aluminium
https://www.motarecreational.com/en/g-range/10-gear-oil-cooler-short-version.html#reste_descriptions


Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

 

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 9:42 AM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

A-50:

It’s got the word “mota” stamped on it.

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

 

~~~~~~Matt



On Aug 26, 2021, at 5:22 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:



For A55 owners and possibly A50 owners (an A50 owner please verify)

There is a different oil cooler that Amel used in the A55 (possibly all hull numbers). I am not sure of the brand, but the same thing applies to the end closest to the sea chest. Here is a photo of the oil cooler on the A55.

<image.png>

 



Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

 

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Scott, same Bowman cooler on Yanmar SMs and 54 D3s.

It is very important to inspect the end of the cooler nearest the sea chest. This is where debris will accumulate and reduce water flow. According to Bowman the number 1 failure of the Bowman Cooler is the overtightening of the boot hose clamps on each end. The metal is soft enough that a overtightened hose clamp will squeeze the tubes closed.

 

Here is a short story for many Amel owners. I had a client who had purchased my Amel Book and 24/7 Support. After about 5 years he decided to sell his Amel. When it was being surveyed the surveyor insisted on running the engine at WOT, the Onan, the water maker, and 3 Air Conditioners. The engine overheated. The surveyor's conclusion was that the Amel sea chest and manifolds were inadequate. My client called and was very distressed. I suggested to him that the Bowman oil cooler had debris inside the boot nearest to the sea chest. Nobody agreed with me and thousands were spent. The sea trial was done again under the same circumstances. The engine overheated again. This time the client removed the large clamp on the end of the Boman Cooler nearest the sea chest and found it full of debris. In 5 years he had never done this, although I recommended it and it is in my book. The moral of this story is easy to figure out. The page from my book is below.

 



Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image supprimée par l'expéditeur.

 

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 4:27 AM Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:

Hi Mark;

 

Thank you for sharing your experience. We removed and had all of the heat exchangers professionally cleaned in 2018. However, it is not possible to identify wear. Therefore I’d like to order a couple of the heat exchangers and replace ours and have one as spare. It is hard to read the part number on the cooler, without removing it.

 

Does anyone know if all A54s used the same part number too, or are there different parts for different hull numbers?

 

Respectfully;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark McGovern via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:41 AM
To:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [AmelYachtOwners] Bowman DC60-XCC Transmission Oil Cooler Failure; ZF Hurth ZF 25; Yanmar 4JH3-HTE #lessons #lessons

 

In the spirit of Pat from Shenanigans "Lessons Learned" post a few week's back I thought I would share what I learned when my Bowman DC60-XCC oil cooler failed while motoring up the coast of Maine a few days ago.  Thankfully, we caught the failure relatively early in large part due to the fact that when cruising in Maine you have to remain hyper-aware at all times because of the lobster pots that are literally all over the place including in marked channels and anchorages. Because of that, both my wife and I were in the cockpit doing nothing but looking out for lobster pots and calling out their positions to whomever was at the helm. There were no podcasts, no music, no book reading, no headphone, just hyper-vigilance with two people, 4 eyes, and 4 ears on watch at all times. 

The first symptom we noticed was what sounded like a slight misfire of the engine.  It sounded like the RPM increased ever so slightly for just a second.  It was just a "blip" and was not large enough to actually even register on the tachometer.  After hearing it a few times, a minute or so apart, I asked my wife if she was hearing it. She said she was. My first thought was a clogged fuel filter despite the fact that my last fuel fill ups were from fairly busy harbors in Annapolis, MD and Onset, Massachusetts and that we had only ~60 hours on the Racor filter.  In addition, the RPMs of the engine seemed to increase not decrease like I would expect from fuel starvation from a clogged fuel filter.  In any case, I switched over to the second Racor but the occasional engine “blip” did not go away. In fact it got more frequent and it actually started to register on the tachometer just barely.  I put my head over the side to take a look at the engine exhaust.  I did not see any white or black smoke coming out of the engine exhaust.  However, I did see an oil slick trailing behind us the likes of which I have never seen before.  My immediate thought was that the engine oil cooler had failed and was leaking engine oil into the raw water system.  We had no choice but to shut the engine down ASAP.  There was only 6-7 knots of wind directly behind us but we also had a bit of favorable current so we just put out the main sail, turned off the engine and called Towboat US.  We are not at all familiar with this area and we did not see any decent anchorages looking at the charts. We were only 2 nm from our destination of Belfast, Maine and the Towboat captain said it would take him about an hour to meet us at the entrance to the harbor.  So we sailed at 1.5-2 knots with just the Main and met the Towboat captain at the entrance to the harbor where he towed us the last mile to our mooring ball where we still sit right now waiting for our replacement oil cooler to arrive from the UK.

 

Once we were safely moored, I went down to the engine room to check the oil in the Yanmar.  It was perfect.  Not a drop appeared to be missing.  After a brief “wtf?” moment, I checked the transmission dipstick.  The fluid level did not even register on the dipstick at all.  However, I could see that there was some ATF left in the transmission case.  That was a bit of a relief but not much.

 

All of this happened on a Saturday and I do not carry a spare oil cooler so I would have to wait until Monday to order a replacement.  First thing Monday morning I started to call all of the USA dealers for Bowman marine products listed on Bowman’s website.  Of those who actually answered the phone, none of them had the DC60-XCC in stock or even just the DC60 (oil cooler with no end caps). One actually told me that he didn't think DC60-XCC was a valid Bowman part number. I said “I’m looking at their catalog online right now.  It is.”

 

I then called Bowman in the UK and asked if they knew anyone in the USA who might have one of these in stock and they hesitated and said the only one who might have one is Tradewinds Power Corporation.  When I had previously called Tradewinds Power Corporation they said "our computer system is down right now" so we will need to call you back.  They never did.  

Luckily, I had also asked Bowman who in the UK would definitely have them in stock and would ship to the USA.  Without hesitation, they told me that Lancing Marine will definitely have it and they ship around the world.  So I called Lancing Marine (https://www.lancingmarine.com/) and had a wonderful experience buying from them.  Not only were their prices the lowest by far that I had seen anywhere online (79 GBP/~109 USD including new couplers) but the ordering experience was fantastic despite it being phone order only.  The person I spoke to also obviously knows these transmissions well.  His name was Mike and I'm pretty sure he is the owner and founder of the company - founded in 1970!  He gave me his opinion on the state of my transmission (he thinks it’s probably fine) and advice on how to test it to see even before the replacement cooler arrives.  On top of all that, despite it being about 3pm their time when I called, the coolers (I ordered a spare) shipped out the same day.  Last, he said that if I do need to get the transmission rebuilt, that he would highly recommend a company in the lower Chesapeake Bay called Transatlantic Diesels. He says that they know these ZF transmissions better than anyone and he has done business with them for years.  It was really just a great overall buying experience that seems to be so rare in these days of anonymous Amazon purchases.

 

The moral of the story is that for ~$109 plus shipping and an hour of my time I should have replaced the transmission oil cooler PROACTIVELY soon after I bought the boat back in July 2017.  Especially given that I did not know the age of this critical part.  Or I should have replaced one of four times that I have replaced the transmission fluid.  At the bare minimum, I should have had a spare oil cooler already on board.  The engine, and I assume the oil cooler, just surpassed the 2000 hour mark.  Researching this site after the fact I found at least two other SM owners who had the same failure at around the 2000 hour mark. Both, I believe, lost their transmissions.  Hopefully, I have not. I will know in a few days time.

 

So in the spirit of the #lessonslearned, don’t be like me.  If you are not sure how old your transmission oil cooler is, replace it.  If it’s approaching 2000 hours, replace it.  At a minimum, get yourself a spare oil cooler.  And if you can’t find it locally, get it from the nice people at Lancing Marine in the UK so that we all have at least one place in the world that keeps these things in stock.

 

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

 

Paul,

What is the resulting loss of energy converted to? 
Remember E = mc2
I assume heat, so where is the heat, and what is its significance?

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 9:46 AM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Paul, I did not realize that you lost efficiency or  output by connecting the panels in series. I am far from an electrical engineer ,I wish I were,it would make owning an Amel easier. I may be better off replacing my three, 8 yr. old 17v panels ( in series) with three 36v panels . I am going bald scratching my head ,I had a full head of thick fur when I bought this boat.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 10:30 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Pat
No it does not, and most 100 w panel's are 36 cell 18 v panels ( nominal 12 v)  you need to have them in serie to charge 24 v, very inefficient. We replaced or 2x 100 watt panels with 2x150 w 36 v panels. Now in August I get around 0,6 kWh from the two. From one 400 w panel I got 2.5 kWh. I'm on Last Palmas Canary Islands. During ideal conditions in June I got 0,8 kWh resp 3.0 kWh from the above. I have 2 rail mounted panels 2x180 w now in a marina they are titled up vertically a very poor way to keep them but lack of space force me to have them that way.. They outperform the soft on the Bimini giving CA 0,85 kWh
Paul


Re: Meltem

JB Duler
 

Denis, I have the 125hp turbocharged 4Jh3-DTE Yanmar with 2,200 hours. It was installed in 2000.

--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Meltem

Denis Foster
 

JB,
is your engine à Yanmar 4LHTE 4cyl 3,6Liter engine ?

I had surveyed the build of our Meltem in 1975-1976 and was very impressed, cost was never taken in consideration by Amel yard. Henri Amel just wanted a perfect boat for easy long term cruising.

cheers

Denis


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Patrick McAneny
 

Paul, I did not realize that you lost efficiency or  output by connecting the panels in series. I am far from an electrical engineer ,I wish I were,it would make owning an Amel easier. I may be better off replacing my three, 8 yr. old 17v panels ( in series) with three 36v panels . I am going bald scratching my head ,I had a full head of thick fur when I bought this boat.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 10:30 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Pat
No it does not, and most 100 w panel's are 36 cell 18 v panels ( nominal 12 v)  you need to have them in serie to charge 24 v, very inefficient. We replaced or 2x 100 watt panels with 2x150 w 36 v panels. Now in August I get around 0,6 kWh from the two. From one 400 w panel I got 2.5 kWh. I'm on Last Palmas Canary Islands. During ideal conditions in June I got 0,8 kWh resp 3.0 kWh from the above. I have 2 rail mounted panels 2x180 w now in a marina they are titled up vertically a very poor way to keep them but lack of space force me to have them that way.. They outperform the soft on the Bimini giving CA 0,85 kWh
Paul


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Paul Osterberg
 

Pat
No it does not, and most 100 w panel's are 36 cell 18 v panels ( nominal 12 v)  you need to have them in serie to charge 24 v, very inefficient. We replaced or 2x 100 watt panels with 2x150 w 36 v panels. Now in August I get around 0,6 kWh from the two. From one 400 w panel I got 2.5 kWh. I'm on Last Palmas Canary Islands. During ideal conditions in June I got 0,8 kWh resp 3.0 kWh from the above. I have 2 rail mounted panels 2x180 w now in a marina they are titled up vertically a very poor way to keep them but lack of space force me to have them that way.. They outperform the soft on the Bimini giving CA 0,85 kWh
Paul


Fuel Polishing

Mike Johnson
 

Hi Everyone,

 

Has anyone installed a ‘fuel polishing’ system on the SM 2K.  If so we would appreciate comments :

 

  1. Where the ‘fuel polisher’ input was taken from.
  2. Where the returned polished fuel was feed back into the tank.
  3. If the installation was a permanent:
    1. Where the power source was taken from (12v or 24v).
    2. Where the ‘fuel polisher’ was located.

 

We are considering installing the Racor ‘fuel polisher’ and wish to avoid voyage of discovery during installation.

 

Appreciate the help.

 

Mike & Peta

 

SOLITUDE

SM2K 461


Re: Meltem

JB Duler
 

I am in the process of restoring a 1975 Meltem. I will be documenting the process in a website I am building. More like archeology than restoration, carefully removing everything that can be removed, cleaning, repairing and mounting back.


The good news for all of you, Amel owners: you can expect a long, long life from your Amel. Well worth your investment!


After 46 years, the construction is impeccable (hull, stratification, bulkheads, hardware attachments) with no major cracks. The Meltem is still rock solid. And so are the subsequent yachts (Maramu, Super Maramu and others).


We have 1,500 liters of fresh water in the keel: no gelcoat cracks, keel bolts intact.


We have 850 liters of diesel in two stainless steel tanks. As the old folks say, they don't make them like that anymore.


Everything used by Amel craftsmen has stood the test of time: varnished wood, custom stainless steel hardware,  cabinet doors, kitchen sink or bathroom features (storage cabinets, first aid cabinets, shower heads, shower pan). The African mahogany used (for the table, the bunks, the lee boards etc) is in perfect shape.


Goiots ports, aluminum hatches: all impeccable (just new gaskets) and not leaking.


We tore apart the electrical and plumbing systems: all stainless bolts and screws were first quality and easy to remove. The hoses (I forgot the name of the French company making them) were still impeccable.


The hydraulic steering is not leaking and is perfect.


The frames holding the engine (it was upgraded to a massive 125hp Yanmar by the previous owner) are rock solid.


Amel yard had that sense of perfection only found with the early Mac computers (as Steve Job used to say, there is pride in that perfectly hidden screw no consumer  will ever see). Every panel is easy to remove, every piece of wood still fits perfectly, every door closes. And you still have that homey feeling of warm quarters and curved doors.


The bad news: as Bill Rouse loves to say, every problem or failure we encountered was due to a modification by a boatyard (most of them are mere handymen). 


We had the misfortune to have work done at a yard in Port Napoleon over last winter. Just about everything they touched (plumbing, electrical, carpentry) created troubles immediately or we found the problems before it was too late. 


Leaks were patched up pouring epoxy, plywood repairs were epoxied to the hull (I assumed it is faster than using bolts), cheap plastic Chinese shower heads we broke the first night. As the yard said “we don’t repair here, we change”. If you own an Amel stay away from that place then!


I jumped into the trash to recover the old bronze shower heads, screwed them back with a new o ring et voila!


I crawled into deep lockers to investigate: the yard did not bother pulling the old wires. They just drilled new holes, ran wires and hoses with nothing to protect from chafing! So different from the Amel yard where every hole through plywood of GRP was coated to prevent water damage and fitted with anti chafing material.


Lessons: don’t let yards mess up your Amel. If you let them do it, they’ll drill more holes in the hull and will install inferior products simply because it is what their wholesaler has in stock. 


Follow strictly Bill Rouse’s suggestions and take things into your own hands. If you do, you will still enjoy your Amel thirty years from now (if not you, someone else will) :-)

--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Meltem

Ron Hynes
 

I own hull # 29, a 1976 meltem. I am presently in the process of re-powering. Did you by chance repower your Meltem? If so, what engine did you choose. 

Ron Hynes
954.319.0944

On Aug 31, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Denis Foster <deniswfoster@...> wrote:

Hello,
in a small marina in East Sardinia we spotted this venerable but good looking Meltem probably from the late seventies.

Regards

Denis 
ex Meltem #32
<8BE3D8E5-EB89-4118-A5BF-B63BAC8A9F4D.jpeg>
<800B63A2-570D-4A65-8E42-083CA68AB083.jpeg>


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Patrick McAneny
 

Paul, I had just decided to add a couple of flexible panels to augment the three rigid panels I have. I had the impression that the flex panels were not as productive ,but did not realize the difference was so great . Now I question if it worth it , opinions ? Does not a 100 w flexible panel produce the same amount of amps as a 100w rigid panel ? 
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

We havet both soft and ridgid panels, we have tried different brands. Always a hugh difference in performance to the advantage of the ridgid panels
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Paul Osterberg
 

We havet both soft and ridgid panels, we have tried different brands. Always a hugh difference in performance to the advantage of the ridgid panels
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Meltem

Denis Foster
 

Hello,
in a small marina in East Sardinia we spotted this venerable but good looking Meltem probably from the late seventies.

Regards

Denis 
ex Meltem #32


Re: Wind generators

David Vogel
 

I have installed a Rutland 1200. Happy with it in operation, nearly silent, can hear a slight vibration from the top-of-mizzen mounting, which could be improved with a better anti-vibration mounting pad. But it does not intrude, and we have a subliminal ‘always on’ wind-meter, so we always know what’s going on ‘out there’ when we’re tucked away below. Neighbouring boats hear nothing.

The downside is that the Marlec Rutland MPPT charge controller is not user programmable but must either be returned to the factory, or a new one sent out, I think for about GBP350- when last I asked. I do not use the solar-input side of the Rutland charge controller. In fact, I burnt it out by not respecting the 50V maximum solar input limit for the original installation, but the wind-gen side was not affected. (I now use a Victron MPPT 100/20 for the 400W installed PV array.)

In answer to Bill’s comment, installed cost was about US$2,500-. As at today, the energy produced is 15,746Ah in 18,333 operating hours, at nominal 24V = 378kWh, = $6-/kWh.

In pure bang-for-buck, solar returns better value for money – there is no doubt about that. However, when on-passage, we find that with a brisk breeze abeam or forward, we are producing 10-15 Amps of the windgen, which more than offsets the additional load of nav-station and autopilot; the same when we have AWS 20knots from astern. And often this happens in cloudy conditions, so we welcome the complimentary/supplementary nature of our wind-power generation capacity.

As an aside, we do not routinely run our shaft-driven alternator, as I wonder about the value-for-money in terms of accruing operating hours towards the 900-hourly C-Drive overhaul period …

Hope this provides some value to the group.

David
SM#396, Perigee
Savusavu, Fiji

+++
From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Rouse <brouse@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, 21 August 2021 at 1:54 am
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Wind generators

Wind - I always recommend solar. 

I tried for years to get real-life data on any wind generator and found no actual useable data to construct a cost/benefit model. Sure I got the reports like, "one day a month ago we got XXX amps from the wind." Or, "it is always turning."

Bill




CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@gmail.com
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
Website: www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 






View My Training Calendar

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:42 AM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@gmail.com> wrote:
Do not now about wind, but this year we replaced our 5 year old solar panels and replaced the with Sunpower maxium 3. 2x400 w is just a fraction larger surface that the old 3x150 w, A hug improvements. I often see peak watt close to 500w and occasionally around 540 w, During July we touched 3 Kwh for a full day each, yesterday as an example we reached 2,3 but the battery was full well before the end of the day and superhot (high temp reduce output)  We have litium and 1,4Kw of solar so do not need to run the panels constantly during a day, even though we cock food on induction, and make hot water through the inverter. But it is still summer and long day, sure I will need them all when days get shorter
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259, Gran Canaria.


Re: Wind generators

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Good clip Nick. I have been in 50 knot plus quite a number of times and I remember one squall of 65 but I was coastal and the wind was off shore so there was no sea. When it gets nasty is off shore where there is no land as a lee to reduce the seas. I have been in one  sustained storm off shore. Constant wind of 50 plus knots for a start. Big seas but as you scanned the horizon about every half mile in all directions there were seas climbing on top of each other one two three and then a huge breaking wave. Then as the wind increased to 70knots the seas just got bigger and those breaking waves got massive. We were sailing on half a storm jib, fore reaching which had us climbing very steep seas diagonally. They were significantly taller than our mast. We got hit by two of those on top of each other breaking seas. One broke right over the boat, the other hit the stern with a massive whump driving the stern sideways 45 degrees. I believe we survived because we were sailing, and we were a moving target, I believe if we had been hove to or worse lying a hull we could have been rolled.. We averaged 6.8 knots by GPS fortunately towards New Zealand through the night. When we got into the lee of the Northern peninsular even 30 miles out the wind didn't drop at all but the breaking seas stopped and I knew we were safe.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 31 August 2021 at 00:41 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Here is a very short clip of a 50 knot gust. The stronger ones did not get filmed. Nick S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 Greece
 


 



 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:30, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi Nick. Couple of things. You never have to tether a super wind. The geared feathering blades are cdesigned for and are capable of handling hurricane force winds, so top of the mizzen is the safest place. No chance of being hit by the blades. Second point you mention wind getting under solar panels.. Imagine 4 big panels as big as a back yard on top of a stern tower, As many are doing now. Now  enisage storm force winds healing the boat 30 or even 45  or 50 degrees. That storm force wind would get under the panels. Hope the tower is very strong. Then at the same time throw a breaking wave sideways over the stern. There are setups for Marina hoppers and there are set upsfor serious ocean sailing. We  need to.plan.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 20:16 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

Agree 100%. I wish I had researched the WG market better before buying and installing in 2017.  My last boat had a Rutland but a smaller model. Trouble free for ten years and no noise. The output was low though.

I may well install a Superwind, as the mounting arrangement I already have only needs some minor adapting. Still mulling it over. The top of the mizzen is a great place for one but it is a long way up there if one has to lash the blades….


Recently I enjoyed some pretty strong winds, with gusts well into sixty knot range, and sustained winds of 40 knots. These conditions burned out the Rutlands as the stop mechanism could not hold them. No way anyone was getting close to the WG to turn it. Too dangerous for sure.

The idea that one can keep piling on extra solar panels at low cost for amps produced can only go so far. My set up was fine but the stern solar arch/dinghy davits is extremely robust and the solar panels well mounted with eight fixing points bolted to lugs.I would not have been happy with significantly more solar area in such conditions.  As for rail mounted panels, that would have been a horror show. I think one really needs to plan on occasional storms or other forms of severe weather. Solar panels can be pretty streamline but if the wind was to somehow get underneath one, a dangerous situation could develop quite quickly. I am thinking West Indian style corrugated roof sheets flying around in a hurricane. 

Regards

Nick (back in the UK)

S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019 
Leros









On 30 Aug 2021, at 07:32, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Nick. Your comment  that had you bought a super wind first is the telling one. The expense and failure associated with the model you bought is critical in how you see  wind. Consider how you might feel if you had had a super wind trouble free on top of your mizzen for 10 years. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 17:48 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" < ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Surely it depends on where you cruise and the time of year.
To give an extreme example; in the north of the U.K. during winter there is precious little sun, about 6 hours of daylight and 18 of darkness. Solar will not produce much, whilst wind will perform as it blows like hell.
I am not planning on a winter cruise of the Hebrides!

Another example is Lanzarote in the Canary Islands. It blows the whole time and is sunny too. Both will perform.

I have a pair of Rutland 1200’s and they had a remote monitor with accumulative amps generated. 
Each Rutland came with a controller that could also do solar.
So I had a port controller of the Rutland with one 265a solar panel.
And a starboard controller doing the starboard WG and Starboard solar panel.
They both had counters on the remotes.
Solar out performed wind most of the time. However whilst sailing in strong winds even downwind the WG ‘s we’re useful, especially the windward WG. I found that at night running everything with the autopilot working hard I had full batteries.
Unfortunately I did not record the figures of cumulative amps generated.
So the set up was great in principle….but 

the controllers got hot and seamed to be a bit primitive.
So I changed to a single Blue Sky Solar controller for both panels,
And continued with the WG controllers for them.

The WG’s were silent re the blades but created a harmonic hum that came down the frame into the aft cabin.

The WG’s failed and went back for repair (free)

Now they failed again and burned out. Rutland have said they will repair them for free.

So now I have lugged the whole lot back to the U.K. for repair but I have had it with the brand. The company has been good but frankly they are just not reliable enough for Amelia.
So I will try and eBay them after service.

On a cost benefit basis, including the hassle and irritation I am afraid that solar has been an outright winner and wind a painful expensive hassle.

In conclusion for my cruising plans that may include some summer higher latitude forays solar will be the backbone of renewable power. I may add a Superwind 350, we shall see.

Had I bought Superwind 350 from the beginning I may have had a great set up. The trouble is that they are damn expensive compared to solar!

Nick
S/Y Amelia
AML54-019 back stored ashore in Leros as I am 83 days out of 90 in Schengen.


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 04:54, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

all good

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 13:01 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I was pulling your leg… :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 30 Aug 2021, at 13:00, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Well JP that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 August 2021 at 11:46 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

I know the answer…. PEANUTS!!  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera SM007 Opua


 

On 30 Aug 2021, at 10:28, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Alan, no I cant, I don't have that capability. My system has an ammeter that shows amps net of input and out put.

Regards

Danny

On 30 August 2021 at 09:50 Alan Leslie < s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

So can you tell us how many actual amps you see  at those different wind speeds?

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


 


 



 


 


 


 



 


 


 


Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Paul Harries
 

I am trying to improve my understanding of pros and cons of arch mounted panels vs. soft panels. 

Is hard base preferable to soft bimini mounted flexible panels?

Are the soft bimini's going to be replaced with hard extensions of dodger to facilitate solar panels? 

It is interesting to see what Amel has done with the 50, is this the way of the future?

Theory is one thing but all of your experiences with these technologies is far more relevant.

--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: unknown part

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello,

these are original AMEL wedges that you hang on the portside cockpit locker's edge (when the lid is open) to leave the lid half open when you're inflating your scube tanks.

Olivier

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 02:53:09 PM GMT+2, Ceriolim via groups.io <ceriolim@...> wrote:


Good day to everyone.
I 'm here hopefuly to find out if anyone of you can tell me what the part in the photo herewith attached is used for.
I presume is something relatet to my scuba diving air compressor but not sure...and certanly not able to use it.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Maury SM2K   447.


Re: Mainsail furler gasket.

Wolfgang Weber
 

1.) I replaced the ball bearing  of the gearbox with capsulated SKF Explorer 6005-2RSH in June 2015 - no services needed or problems after that time.
2.) I protect the top /sealing of the furler motor with silicon grease and an extra rubberring.

Wolfgang Weber  SY Elise Amel 54#162  La Rochelle

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