Date   

Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Date: 06 September 2021 at 11:14
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Hi Pierre.

See photos attached. You will see the wires are surface mounted entering under the lid of the big cockpit locker. I did it that way because I thought the rail mounting would be temporary. Both the rail mount and the surface wiring have been so successful I changed nothing

 Pleased to avoid drilling holes. As you can see the panels in.working position leave sufficient space to move past them.. Not being stayed they are quick and easy to swivel either way. If extreme weather threatened it would be a task of minutes to remove and stow them. In over 50,000 miles I have never had to contemplate this action. 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 05 September 2021 at 08:37 Pierre Blouin <blouinpdx@...> wrote:

Hi Danny, would you mind posting some pictures of your port side rail set-up, sounds very interesting.

thanks
-Pierre
SV Viva, SM374
Portland, OR


 


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pierre.

See photos attached. You will see the wires are surface mounted entering under the lid of the big cockpit locker. I did it that way because I thought the rail mounting would be temporary. Both the rail mount and the surface wiring have been so successful I changed nothing

 Pleased to avoid drilling holes. As you can see the panels in.working position leave sufficient space to move past them.. Not being stayed they are quick and easy to swivel either way. If extreme weather threatened it would be a task of minutes to remove and stow them. In over 50,000 miles I have never had to contemplate this action. 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 05 September 2021 at 08:37 Pierre Blouin <blouinpdx@...> wrote:

Hi Danny, would you mind posting some pictures of your port side rail set-up, sounds very interesting.

thanks
-Pierre
SV Viva, SM374
Portland, OR


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

JB Duler
 

Danny, this is super cool and so well made. Where did you get the hardware to build the mounts, the sliders? Aluminum or SS? This is exactly what I was looking for.
--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pierre.

See photos attached. You will see the wires are surface mounted entering under the lid of the big cockpit locker. I did it that way because I thought the rail mounting would be temporary. Both the rail mount and the surface wiring have been so successful I changed nothing

 Pleased to avoid drilling holes. As you can see the panels in.working position leave sufficient space to move past them.. Not being stayed they are quick and easy to swivel either way. If extreme weather threatened it would be a task of minutes to remove and stow them. In over 50,000 miles I have never had to contemplate this action. 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 05 September 2021 at 08:37 Pierre Blouin <blouinpdx@...> wrote:

Hi Danny, would you mind posting some pictures of your port side rail set-up, sounds very interesting.

thanks
-Pierre
SV Viva, SM374
Portland, OR


Re: Persistent TMD22 overheating

Patrick McAneny
 

Alex, That sounds like money not well spent. In my case I had checked my engine many times with two different inferred guns and had temps well over 200 F., especially at higher rpms. 
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar via groups.io <uster@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Sep 5, 2021 5:35 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Persistent TMD22 overheating

In 2015 I spent a fortune ($8000) to solve a false overheating…. 
Cleaned intercooler, rebuilt injectors, gage calibrated, etc.  
At the end, it was simply the wire from the engine to the gage which, with age, had higher resistance…. The mechanic never find the cause, I only found it, by putting a 2nd temperature gage…. 

Sincerely, Alexandre

On Sunday, September 5, 2021, 01:02:39 PM AST, Jose Venegas via groups.io <josegvenegas@...> wrote:


Pat,

Can you be more specific about the sleeve, or lack of, that caused the overheating of your Volvo TMD22?  Ipanema has persistent overheating at high RPM after cleaning with BB both heat exchangers and having ruled out most of the potential causes described by Bill Rouse on his manual that he recently posted and I am copying below.

BTW, I would add two more potential causes:
1) A small leak of air into the freshwater pathway upstream of the pump. This leak only shows as a small collection of salt around the hose connections when the engine is not running but is enough to allow entry of air that increases as the engine RMP increase.  A similar entry can occur through the seal of the seawater strainer cap.  The effect can be exaggerated by a minor restriction of the pathway upstream of the leak.  I recently fixed such a leak and the engine temperature came down (205 F) but I think it is still too high.

2) A calibration error on the temperature sensor/gauge system.  This gave me a difficult time a year ago as I was arriving in Curazao and was caused by corrosion of electrical connections.  
   
Quoted from Bill Rouse's Post:

Possible Causes of Overheating:

1. Restricted seawater flow anywhere in the pathway beginning with the seawater entry into the sea chest to the seawater and exhaust exit through the hull. 
a. Sea Chest restriction
b. Hose restriction or kink
c. Restriction at the input to the in-line transmission oil cooler, if equipped
d. Failing seawater pump and/or failing seawater impeller
e. Restricted Exhaust Elbow
2. Restricted Coolant water flow
a. Failing coolant water pump
b. Failing Pressure Cap (should be replaced every 2 years)
c. Failing and/or clogged Heat Exchanger
3. Incorrect coolant ratio, but this is usually not a major contributor but will contribute somewhat.
4. Incorrect V-Belt tensioning with the V-Belt turning the coolant water pump
5. Failing Coolant Thermostat (not opening completely)
6. Other engine issues"
 


Re: Lithium battery costs

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Brent – you make some very valid points - Andrew

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brent Cameron via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2021 6:02 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lithium battery costs

 

I’m sorry but I  really don’t get the fascination with installing electric motors on cruising sailboats. Your 40KW motor is 53 HP which is about half the power that your boat came with (assuming your later model Super Maramu had the Yanmar 105HP). Granted you don’t NEED all of that 105HP as there are plenty of Super Maramu owners perfectly happy with their 78 HP Perkins/Volvos which would put out about 40KW at 2400 RPM but I suspect that 40 KW is stretching your ability to get off a lee shore or through some big currents.   You could try it by running your motor at about 1700 RPM. 

The 28Kw/h battery bank could run that 40KW motor at that rate for a grand total of 38 minutes on batteries alone but I very much doubt that your battery bank could support discharging at 1.4C (most Lithium Ion installations restrict to 1.0C and that’s on the extreme end IMHO).  If you also fired up your new 18KW generator, it drops your C rate to less than 1 and you could double your longevity but 76 minutes of power (assuming your batteries were already fully charged AND you starting the genset the instant you turned on the electric motor) is not nearly enough IMHO to satisfy basic seamanship requirements even for just coastal cruising.  

That’s a huge cost to get a significant reduction in capability and I think would dramatically lower the resale value of your fine boat. 

I get the urge to electrify everything but are you really getting that benefit if you have to run a diesel genset at the same time?  It works for cars because they can carry huge battery banks (the Base Tesla model 3 has a 50KW/h battery pack of NCA (Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum) cells that are designed to discharge at high C rates unlike the LiFePO4 cells used in boats for safety reasons). Of course that means that they are a lot more susceptible to bursting into flames so not a great idea on your floating home. Also a model 3 car at 60 mph/100 km/h only uses about 0.34kw/h as most of the power is needed to get it moving and they can regenerate that kinetic energy when braking and coasting which can’t be done in a boat - although admittedly you could put a hydro-generator on to help recharge the batteries when sailing - but of course that won’t be of any use when you have to motor.   Still, that 50KWH battery is only good for 151 kms of range according to Tesla’s configurator… they want you to upgrade to the 82KWH battery to get 500kms (300 miles). 

We had a good example of the difficulty of doing this in sailboats with one of our recent guest speakers, the estimable Jimmy Cornell having to give up his attempt to sail across the Atlantic (let alone the world) on his specifically designed and completely solar bedecked Catamaran earlier  this year.  They said that they dramatically underestimated the power consumption and overestimated the generation capabilities- and that’s with a team of sponsors well motivated to make sure of his success.   He’s now going to try again but only after significantly upgrading the solar, hydro generation and efficiency of his consuming equipment.  An Amel can’t carry the same amount of solar as a specifically designed cat and they need more power to move them than a performance cat as well.   

It’s your money but I don’t get it. I guess you’d save a lot of diesel because you’d not be able to motor anywhere anyway. LOL.  If I was that worried about saving carbon, I  think I’d pocket the money and stay on the dock. :-)


Brent

On Sep 5, 2021, 10:10 AM -0400, Andrew & Kate Lamb <andrew@...>, wrote:

That’s an interesting figure – I have been exploring the concept of an Oceanvolt drive for the supermaramu with an 18KW DC generator to provide range only dependent on the diesel tank size. A 40KW motor system with 28kWh lithium batteries and the DC generator + 5K 48/230 inverter and 48/24 V convertor comes in installed at just over 100K euros. There recommendation is that one would not touch the existing battery system but just charge it from the lithium batteries / generator - 230v power would directly from the lithium batteries / generator. At the moment I am not even sure there would be space to install such as system and also if the C drive is compatible, but it has some appeal to it.

 

Andrew

Ronpische SM 472

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Billy Newport via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2021 3:48 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lithium battery costs

 

I had Maine yacht center install 1200ah of lithionics batteries with 1200w of solbian solar, 300a api alternator and 2 x 3kw victron inverter chargers. 90k usd with about half that being labor.

Billy

 


--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: Persistent TMD22 overheating

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

In 2015 I spent a fortune ($8000) to solve a false overheating…. 

Cleaned intercooler, rebuilt injectors, gage calibrated, etc.  

At the end, it was simply the wire from the engine to the gage which, with age, had higher resistance…. The mechanic never find the cause, I only found it, by putting a 2nd temperature gage…. 


Sincerely, Alexandre

On Sunday, September 5, 2021, 01:02:39 PM AST, Jose Venegas via groups.io <josegvenegas@...> wrote:


Pat,

Can you be more specific about the sleeve, or lack of, that caused the overheating of your Volvo TMD22?  Ipanema has persistent overheating at high RPM after cleaning with BB both heat exchangers and having ruled out most of the potential causes described by Bill Rouse on his manual that he recently posted and I am copying below.

BTW, I would add two more potential causes:
1) A small leak of air into the freshwater pathway upstream of the pump. This leak only shows as a small collection of salt around the hose connections when the engine is not running but is enough to allow entry of air that increases as the engine RMP increase.  A similar entry can occur through the seal of the seawater strainer cap.  The effect can be exaggerated by a minor restriction of the pathway upstream of the leak.  I recently fixed such a leak and the engine temperature came down (205 F) but I think it is still too high.

2) A calibration error on the temperature sensor/gauge system.  This gave me a difficult time a year ago as I was arriving in Curazao and was caused by corrosion of electrical connections.  
   
Quoted from Bill Rouse's Post:

Possible Causes of Overheating:

1. Restricted seawater flow anywhere in the pathway beginning with the seawater entry into the sea chest to the seawater and exhaust exit through the hull. 
a. Sea Chest restriction
b. Hose restriction or kink
c. Restriction at the input to the in-line transmission oil cooler, if equipped
d. Failing seawater pump and/or failing seawater impeller
e. Restricted Exhaust Elbow
2. Restricted Coolant water flow
a. Failing coolant water pump
b. Failing Pressure Cap (should be replaced every 2 years)
c. Failing and/or clogged Heat Exchanger
3. Incorrect coolant ratio, but this is usually not a major contributor but will contribute somewhat.
4. Incorrect V-Belt tensioning with the V-Belt turning the coolant water pump
5. Failing Coolant Thermostat (not opening completely)
6. Other engine issues"
 


Re: Persistent TMD22 overheating

Patrick McAneny
 

Jose, I had taken out and cleaned my heat exchanger several times trying to solve an overheating issue. I decided to buy two new rubber end caps for the heat exchanger from parts4engines . I actuall bought the one for a Perkins  M80 same engine as the TMD22a and the caps were $300 less. When I purchased the caps ,up popped a side bar suggesting that this rubber ring is  frequently bought along with the caps. I did not know what the ring was ,but bought it . I discovered that this ring was missing from the heating exchanger tube ,allowing same of the coolant to bypass the H/E . If you have the same engine as I have ,there should be a rubber ring slid around the tube about 3/4 of the way down the tube . It closes off a section of the exterior vessel directing the water flow ,which would otherwise not be cooled.
That was probably not clear , so if you have two rubber boots on the end of your H/E,take out the tube and check,there should be a ring around the core,if not that is likely your problem. The newer models have metal end caps ,I don't know if they have this ring or not . My ring had  deteriorated ,I found bits of it inside the vessel. If you have the rubber boots ,let me know , we can talk on the phone or I will clarify in an email.
Hope this Helps,
Pat
SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Jose Venegas via groups.io <josegvenegas@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 5, 2021 1:02 pm
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Persistent TMD22 overheating

Pat,

Can you be more specific about the sleeve, or lack of, that caused the overheating of your Volvo TMD22?  Ipanema has persistent overheating at high RPM after cleaning with BB both heat exchangers and having ruled out most of the potential causes described by Bill Rouse on his manual that he recently posted and I am copying below.

BTW, I would add two more potential causes:
1) A small leak of air into the freshwater pathway upstream of the pump. This leak only shows as a small collection of salt around the hose connections when the engine is not running but is enough to allow entry of air that increases as the engine RMP increase.  A similar entry can occur through the seal of the seawater strainer cap.  The effect can be exaggerated by a minor restriction of the pathway upstream of the leak.  I recently fixed such a leak and the engine temperature came down (205 F) but I think it is still too high.

2) A calibration error on the temperature sensor/gauge system.  This gave me a difficult time a year ago as I was arriving in Curazao and was caused by corrosion of electrical connections.  
   
Quoted from Bill Rouse's Post:

Possible Causes of Overheating:

1. Restricted seawater flow anywhere in the pathway beginning with the seawater entry into the sea chest to the seawater and exhaust exit through the hull. 
a. Sea Chest restriction
b. Hose restriction or kink
c. Restriction at the input to the in-line transmission oil cooler, if equipped
d. Failing seawater pump and/or failing seawater impeller
e. Restricted Exhaust Elbow
2. Restricted Coolant water flow
a. Failing coolant water pump
b. Failing Pressure Cap (should be replaced every 2 years)
c. Failing and/or clogged Heat Exchanger
3. Incorrect coolant ratio, but this is usually not a major contributor but will contribute somewhat.
4. Incorrect V-Belt tensioning with the V-Belt turning the coolant water pump
5. Failing Coolant Thermostat (not opening completely)
6. Other engine issues"
 


Re: Amel Mango Hull #14 - the engine room was not built to be watertight?!!?

rob dillmann
 

Dear Daniel,

I think making the engine room watertight is a very complex undertaking.
Perhaps sealing the bulkhead between the aft cabin and the engineroom might be possible. And probably the most effective. 

Regards,
Rob 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

Op 5 sep. 2021 om 14:58 heeft Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...> het volgende geschreven:

Wow, Rob, thanks for this incredibly informative information. I now have a different foundation from which to work.

Just curious. Do you think it is viable to make the engine room, watertight?

Best regards


Re: Amel Mango Hull #14 - the engine room was not built to be watertight?!!?

JB Duler
 

Daniel, I forgot to add that every time things got very bad for me (storms and big waves) I have become seasick.

I am just practical. Keep in mind that when seasick: you become weaker, don't have the energy so that may impact decision making or anything requiring above-normal efforts (=bailing out with buckets).

But that's just me, if I am seasick I can barely drive the boat, trim sails and know where I am but not much else. I would definitely not be able to spend a lot of time down below sorting out major problems.

On the Meltem there is also an access door to the engine compartment in the navigator hallway but that makes no sense to use if there is water in the boat. Plus being in the engine room without the top open in tough conditions ---> I would be very seasick.

I never tried to use a Sonar (we have one), could that be set up with an alarm to detect a floating container? Would that leave enough time to react?
--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Amel Mango Hull #14 - the engine room was not built to be watertight?!!?

Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

You've had some fun on the high seas!

Thank you so much for the reply and concern regarding the rather ominous task of making an Amel Mango engine room, watertight.

You wrote: If the engine or the generator does not start, you may have to open that cockpit floor and be at the mercy of a giant wave breaking on the top. And flooding it anyway.

Luckily the Mango has a little tiny door in the walkway.


1. Even with a super tight engine room I am not sure your Amel will be viable for very long. If you hit a container at 10-12 knots while plunging down a wave I am not sure you will be able to sail at all or you may not be able to keep the mast up (if you rip off the attachment point of your genoa furler).

There are many less extreme scenarios where crew might be required to bail out water with buckets. If they tire; the boat sinks. In this scenario, a functional engine/generator might get the boat an extra 1000km.


 

2. Being rear ended or with water entering through the hole of a rudder ripped off by an orca or something else? If it is big enough and without rudder (big seas + wind) I doubt you will go very far, watertight engine room or not.

This is precisely why i intend to make the aft cabin as water tight as might be possible. This may be very difficult if the cabin bulkhead is not sealed well to the hull. I wish Olivier was here to help.


 

3. Even before the water enters the engine room you may have a short circuit somewhere else.

One could have a four dedicated bilge pumps DIRECTLYI  to the 12v with four switches to complete the circuits. 

 

4. Keep the engine room water tight for what? Running the generator to crank 220v to charge batteries? With water in the boat your 220v outlets may also be shorted.


I would be more keen on keeping the engine running to perhaps make it to land while it runs the bilge pump.

My intention is to make the engine room and huge port locker completely water tight and then to make the aft cabin a bit watertight,  and then to put about 10 of 500kg flotation bags connected to the stringers in the main salon in the under floor lockers to be pumped by hand if the worst should happen.

I think with this setup one could happily keep the boat with only three feet of water in the salon, if something bad happens. The forward cabin could be dry. The engine room pumping out from the salon and the aft cabin and potentially the engine room.

I also plan to buy a life raft that can sail. I won't name drop, here.

Blessings


 


Persistent TMD22 overheating

Jose Venegas
 

Pat,

Can you be more specific about the sleeve, or lack of, that caused the overheating of your Volvo TMD22?  Ipanema has persistent overheating at high RPM after cleaning with BB both heat exchangers and having ruled out most of the potential causes described by Bill Rouse on his manual that he recently posted and I am copying below.

BTW, I would add two more potential causes:
1) A small leak of air into the freshwater pathway upstream of the pump. This leak only shows as a small collection of salt around the hose connections when the engine is not running but is enough to allow entry of air that increases as the engine RMP increase.  A similar entry can occur through the seal of the seawater strainer cap.  The effect can be exaggerated by a minor restriction of the pathway upstream of the leak.  I recently fixed such a leak and the engine temperature came down (205 F) but I think it is still too high.

2) A calibration error on the temperature sensor/gauge system.  This gave me a difficult time a year ago as I was arriving in Curazao and was caused by corrosion of electrical connections.  
   
Quoted from Bill Rouse's Post:

Possible Causes of Overheating:

1. Restricted seawater flow anywhere in the pathway beginning with the seawater entry into the sea chest to the seawater and exhaust exit through the hull. 
a. Sea Chest restriction
b. Hose restriction or kink
c. Restriction at the input to the in-line transmission oil cooler, if equipped
d. Failing seawater pump and/or failing seawater impeller
e. Restricted Exhaust Elbow
2. Restricted Coolant water flow
a. Failing coolant water pump
b. Failing Pressure Cap (should be replaced every 2 years)
c. Failing and/or clogged Heat Exchanger
3. Incorrect coolant ratio, but this is usually not a major contributor but will contribute somewhat.
4. Incorrect V-Belt tensioning with the V-Belt turning the coolant water pump
5. Failing Coolant Thermostat (not opening completely)
6. Other engine issues"
 


Re: Lithium battery costs

Brent Cameron
 

I’m sorry but I  really don’t get the fascination with installing electric motors on cruising sailboats. Your 40KW motor is 53 HP which is about half the power that your boat came with (assuming your later model Super Maramu had the Yanmar 105HP). Granted you don’t NEED all of that 105HP as there are plenty of Super Maramu owners perfectly happy with their 78 HP Perkins/Volvos which would put out about 40KW at 2400 RPM but I suspect that 40 KW is stretching your ability to get off a lee shore or through some big currents.   You could try it by running your motor at about 1700 RPM. 

The 28Kw/h battery bank could run that 40KW motor at that rate for a grand total of 38 minutes on batteries alone but I very much doubt that your battery bank could support discharging at 1.4C (most Lithium Ion installations restrict to 1.0C and that’s on the extreme end IMHO).  If you also fired up your new 18KW generator, it drops your C rate to less than 1 and you could double your longevity but 76 minutes of power (assuming your batteries were already fully charged AND you starting the genset the instant you turned on the electric motor) is not nearly enough IMHO to satisfy basic seamanship requirements even for just coastal cruising.  

That’s a huge cost to get a significant reduction in capability and I think would dramatically lower the resale value of your fine boat. 

I get the urge to electrify everything but are you really getting that benefit if you have to run a diesel genset at the same time?  It works for cars because they can carry huge battery banks (the Base Tesla model 3 has a 50KW/h battery pack of NCA (Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum) cells that are designed to discharge at high C rates unlike the LiFePO4 cells used in boats for safety reasons). Of course that means that they are a lot more susceptible to bursting into flames so not a great idea on your floating home. Also a model 3 car at 60 mph/100 km/h only uses about 0.34kw/h as most of the power is needed to get it moving and they can regenerate that kinetic energy when braking and coasting which can’t be done in a boat - although admittedly you could put a hydro-generator on to help recharge the batteries when sailing - but of course that won’t be of any use when you have to motor.   Still, that 50KWH battery is only good for 151 kms of range according to Tesla’s configurator… they want you to upgrade to the 82KWH battery to get 500kms (300 miles). 

We had a good example of the difficulty of doing this in sailboats with one of our recent guest speakers, the estimable Jimmy Cornell having to give up his attempt to sail across the Atlantic (let alone the world) on his specifically designed and completely solar bedecked Catamaran earlier  this year.  They said that they dramatically underestimated the power consumption and overestimated the generation capabilities- and that’s with a team of sponsors well motivated to make sure of his success.   He’s now going to try again but only after significantly upgrading the solar, hydro generation and efficiency of his consuming equipment.  An Amel can’t carry the same amount of solar as a specifically designed cat and they need more power to move them than a performance cat as well.   

It’s your money but I don’t get it. I guess you’d save a lot of diesel because you’d not be able to motor anywhere anyway. LOL.  If I was that worried about saving carbon, I  think I’d pocket the money and stay on the dock. :-)

Brent

On Sep 5, 2021, 10:10 AM -0400, Andrew & Kate Lamb <andrew@...>, wrote:

That’s an interesting figure – I have been exploring the concept of an Oceanvolt drive for the supermaramu with an 18KW DC generator to provide range only dependent on the diesel tank size. A 40KW motor system with 28kWh lithium batteries and the DC generator + 5K 48/230 inverter and 48/24 V convertor comes in installed at just over 100K euros. There recommendation is that one would not touch the existing battery system but just charge it from the lithium batteries / generator - 230v power would directly from the lithium batteries / generator. At the moment I am not even sure there would be space to install such as system and also if the C drive is compatible, but it has some appeal to it.

 

Andrew

Ronpische SM 472

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Billy Newport via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2021 3:48 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lithium battery costs

 

I had Maine yacht center install 1200ah of lithionics batteries with 1200w of solbian solar, 300a api alternator and 2 x 3kw victron inverter chargers. 90k usd with about half that being labor.

Billy

 


--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: Lithium battery costs

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

That’s an interesting figure – I have been exploring the concept of an Oceanvolt drive for the supermaramu with an 18KW DC generator to provide range only dependent on the diesel tank size. A 40KW motor system with 28kWh lithium batteries and the DC generator + 5K 48/230 inverter and 48/24 V convertor comes in installed at just over 100K euros. There recommendation is that one would not touch the existing battery system but just charge it from the lithium batteries / generator - 230v power would directly from the lithium batteries / generator. At the moment I am not even sure there would be space to install such as system and also if the C drive is compatible, but it has some appeal to it.

 

Andrew

Ronpische SM 472

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Billy Newport via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2021 3:48 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lithium battery costs

 

I had Maine yacht center install 1200ah of lithionics batteries with 1200w of solbian solar, 300a api alternator and 2 x 3kw victron inverter chargers. 90k usd with about half that being labor.

Billy

 


Re: Amel Mango Hull #14 - the engine room was not built to be watertight?!!?

JB Duler
 

Daniel Alexander,


Our Meltem does not have a watertight engine room. It just wasn't designed that way and I am OK with that.


Same with the watertight bulkheads. We just have two bulkheads at the bow and that's it, enough if we hit a floating object or a dock.


Several years ago on a different rock solid boat, while motoring in a canal, our skipper was not paying attention and hit a concrete wall at 6 knots. Complete stop. Bump/cracks at the bow but nothing serious enough to crack open the hull.


We surfed giant waves at 20-25 knots on sleds racing to Hawaii. Hitting a container at that kind of speed and with ultra light sleds would have been a different story. But our Amels are not sleds and they are slow and heavy beasts.


Once on a 1880 schooner we got in a storm off the coast of Brittany. Those schooners are slow, like 2-5 knots. We were going to miss the tide around a critical spot and decided to start the engine and of course that engine would not start. The engine was at the center with doors opening in the cockpit. Similar to our center cockpit in an Amel but with butterfly wood doors. We of course could not surf the big waves, we were too heavy and of course the old lady did not have a planing hull. One massive wave broke on the top of us, flooding the cockpit. And the engine. That was the end, we managed to sail to safety up a river, and without an engine.


If the engine or the generator does not start, you may have to open that cockpit floor and be at the mercy of a giant wave breaking on the top. And flooding it anyway.


Several points I am trying to make.


1. Even with a super tight engine room I am not sure your Amel will be viable for very long. If you hit a container at 10-12 knots while plunging down a wave I am not sure you will be able to sail at all or you may not be able to keep the mast up (if you rip off the attachment point of your genoa furler).

2. Being rear ended or with water entering through the hole of a rudder ripped off by an orca or something else? If it is big enough and without rudder (big seas + wind) I doubt you will go very far, watertight engine room or not.

3. Even before the water enters the engine room you may have a short circuit somewhere else.

4. Keep the engine room water tight for what? Running the generator to crank 220v to charge batteries? With water in the boat your 220v outlets may also be shorted.


Again I apologize to the group if I don't see the need for a super watertight engine room. If things are that bad, chances are you want to prepare the liferaft ASAP as the mast or the masts may be down, banging on the side of the hull. Are you aware of such a scenario where a watertight engine room solved your problems? Anybody you personally know who experienced that?


If you do decide to make your engine room watertight it may seem an impossible task AFTER the boat is built.  You would want to degrease the holes and 2 inches around them, and grind back to fiberglass. Maybe by hand since your 220v grinder would not be able to get there without making a mess or cutting wires and other pipes you don't want to cut. Then fit sleeves, valves and epoxy with mat.


I can foresee a very expensive and frustrating mess, and for what?


I am just being practical and I just don't get it. Make every cabin and the engine room watertight? If things are that bad, you won't last very long in what is left of your boat, and I doubt you will be able to dive outside to place a patch.


Please help me, what am I missing?



--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Lithium battery costs

Billy Newport
 

I had Maine yacht center install 1200ah of lithionics batteries with 1200w of solbian solar, 300a api alternator and 2 x 3kw victron inverter chargers. 90k usd with about half that being labor.

Billy
 


Re: Amel Mango Hull #14 - the engine room was not built to be watertight?!!?

Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Wow, Rob, thanks for this incredibly informative information. I now have a different foundation from which to work.

Just curious. Do you think it is viable to make the engine room, watertight?

Best regards


Re: Amel Mango Hull #14 - the engine room was not built to be watertight?!!?

rob dillmann
 

Dear Alexander,
Our Amel Mango has almost exactly the same engineroom set up (bilge, aft bulkhead, exhausts, etc). 
Amel just did not build the engineroom to be watertight. 
Good luck with changing all that. 
Rob Dillmann
Westwind 
Mango nr 43



Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

Op 4 sep. 2021 om 20:19 heeft Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...> het volgende geschreven:



[Edited Message Follows]

(EDIT: i realise now that the engine room was built to be watertight and the prior owners have drilled all manner of holes in it)

Dear Group

I have just purchased Amel Mango hull #14. I took delivery of her about three days ago.

I have been rampaging through every nook and cranny of this boat for two days, and have found something which has left me aghast: the engine room was not built to be watertight. (EDIT: i realise now that the engine room was built to be watertight and the prior owners have drilled all manner of holes in it)

There is a small opening, just above the propshaft, in the aft cabin bulkhead. This opening (about 10 inches square) allows the aft cabin hull floor to drain directly into the engine room bilge. I find it very weird. Amel have gone to great length to vent the engine room far above the waterline. There is a watertight door and hatch. What on earth?

I want to make the engine room watertight. Does anybody know anybody who has done such a job on a Mango?

Best regards


Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pierre. I will do that. If I cant find my photos I will take some new.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 05 September 2021 at 08:37 Pierre Blouin <blouinpdx@...> wrote:

Hi Danny, would you mind posting some pictures of your port side rail set-up, sounds very interesting.

thanks
-Pierre
SV Viva, SM374
Portland, OR


Re: Lithium battery costs

Jason Rutledge
 

I got 4 of the SOK 12v 206ah batteries, $1029 each.  7 year warranty and good reviews, BMS built in, and tear down videos online.  I looked at the battle born and many others.  I believe 6 can fit in the battery box.
--
Jason Rutledge
SV Liahona
SM 335
Fajardo, Puerto Rico

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