Date   

Re: Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Patrick McAneny
 

Danny, I want to add some more solar and while I never liked the idea of rail mounting ,I don't want to modify my bimini either. My problem is ,that most panels with decent output are approx . 40 + inches wide . From the rail down to the rub rail is only about 26 inches . I would then have over a foot inboard of the rail. How wide of a panel do you recommend ?
Thanks
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Sep 6, 2021 3:45 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Solar panels stainless steel mounted vs soft panels

Hi Greg, That was what I would have done had I gone internal but as I said I surface mounted "temporarily" and it was so satisfactory I left it as it was. I don't think anyone even notices the wires.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 07 September 2021 at 04:13 Gregory Shea <gmshea@...> wrote:

JB, Danny,
The Frenchman who installed my rail mounted panels had an interesting way of leading the wiring inside the boat. 
You can see the waterproof gland in the gunwhale which he then led into the conduit in the corner of the hull to deck joint. From there he could take the wiring anywhere in the boat, very easily.
Interesting approach.

Greg Shea
Sharki 133 Cap des iles
image1.jpeg

 

On Sep 6, 2021, at 6:17 PM, JB Duler < jbduler@...> wrote:

Danny and Greg, thank you so much! I did not know anything about that Swedish company (I had seen their table).
Great find and a fantastic resource for me.
--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med

 

 


Dock lines length for a SM

Jose Venegas
 

Dear Amelian frieds.  
I bought 300 ft of docking line for Ipanema.  Has anyone thought out the best size to cut the docking lines for our boat?


Re: 24V+ Isolated Ground Leak

Paul Stascavage
 

Here is a new photo Bill

i have disconnected the extraneous wire bit the short still exists. I will try to trace those wires but they don’t appear to be the cause of the current issue as I’m certain that they have been there since I took ownership. 


Paul


Re: 24V+ Isolated Ground Leak

Mark McGovern
 

Paul,

No problem. Glad I could help you narrow it down.

I want to correct this statement you made to John: "where there is voltage there is current"

It is possible to have voltage without current flow.  However, you cannot have current flow without voltage.  Voltage means there is the "potential" to have current flow.  Think of a battery.  If you measure the voltage across the positive and negative terminals with a multimeter, you will see voltage between those two points.  Therefore, there is the "potential" to have current flow between them.  However, there is no current flow because the circuit is not complete.  If you were to put a wire between the terminals, you would complete the circuit and then you will have current flowing in the wire (don't try this part with a 100aH lead acid battery!) 

Therefore, if you measure the voltage between the 24v house bank (+) and the Yellow/Green bonding wire you will see a voltage reading that is very close to your house bank voltage (24-28v).  If you measure voltage between the 24v house bank (-) and the Yellow/Green bonding wire with a really good multimeter you might also see a very small voltage potential (probably millivolts or zero).

Here's my understanding of how the "Masse" leak detector works.  The Masse + and Masse - tester puts an LED light bulb in a switched circuit between 24v (+)  or 24v (-) and the Yellow/Green bonding wire.  When you close the switch it completes half the circuit.  If there are no connections between 24v (+)  or 24v (-) and the Yellow/Green bonding wire, nothing happens.  However, if somewhere on the boat you have a connection between 24v (+) or 24v (-) and the Yellow/Green bonding wire that completes the OTHER half of the circuit.  Therefore, current will flow and the LED light bulb will light up.  The more current flowing, the brighter the light.

I periodically "test the tester" by purposely connecting 24v (+) or 24v (-) (one at a time) to bonding and then switching the Masse + and Masse - to make sure the LED light lights up.  I do this behind the Nav station "curtain" as there is relatively easy access to 24v (+), 24v (-) and the Yellow/Green bonding wire.  Usually I do it right after I read a thread like this one!  The test has always worked and thankfully, I have never found a leak.  

Hope this helps!

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Seal Bay, ME USA


Re: QSails, Turkey and Incidence Sails, France

Rick Stanley
 

Bill,

      Any ballpark on shipping cost for a full set of sails from La Rochelle/Brest to Baltimore? Just wondering if I need to tack on another two grand for shipping and whatever taxes they'll assess.

Thanks,

Rick & Meadow
S/V Althea, SM2k #317
Rock Hall, MD


Re: 24V+ Isolated Ground Leak

 

Paul,

Thanks for the photo, but I cannot see the wires at the top of the photo.

If I remember correctly, the wires at the top of this 24v Permanent BUS are from the battery bank and the wires at the bottom should only be 2 wires, 1 positive and 1 negative which are connected to the Permanent 24v to 12v converter.

The two extra wires (darker blue and black) on the left (negative side of the BUS are connecting whatever device they are connected to directly to the 24 negative BUS of the battery bank and bypassing the main battery switch. Start there and disconnect those two wires, then see what turns off. There are several things wrong with these extra wires including the missing opposing positive wire connection. 

When you get a chance, please take another photo.

Everyone else reading this, please don't make new connections to the battery bank without understanding the right way to do it and the pitfalls of doing it wrong. Also, do not allow a technician to use this BUS for any connection...none, nada!


Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 8:42 AM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Good morning Bill,

I did have a certified electrician aboard a few months back, but all he did was install a new vhf antenna, cable, and vhf unit. I was with him the whole time and am certain that he didn’t install this wire on the negative side of the permanent bus (photo attached). I removed that wire and still have the short with the navigation breaker on  


I also disconnected the vhf unit including the antenna and I still have the short with the navigation breaker on. 

I’m not sure where to logically start next. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 


All the best,

Paul


Re: 24V+ Isolated Ground Leak

Paul Stascavage
 

Good morning Bill,

I did have a certified electrician aboard a few months back, but all he did was install a new vhf antenna, cable, and vhf unit. I was with him the whole time and am certain that he didn’t install this wire on the negative side of the permanent bus (photo attached). I removed that wire and still have the short with the navigation breaker on  


I also disconnected the vhf unit including the antenna and I still have the short with the navigation breaker on. 

I’m not sure where to logically start next. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 


All the best,

Paul


Re: 24V+ Isolated Ground Leak

 

Paul,

I bet some "certified electronic technician" was aboard and did something like "grounding and instrument." 

I have seen this more than once. And it is usually because someone is adding some device to the nav station.

Please send me a photo of the 24v Permanent Bus.

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 9:47 PM Bill Hall <billhall95688@...> wrote:
Interesting that there would be a permanent on circuit with a transformer.   Would tend to make one kind of crazy

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 7:44 PM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill Hall,

The switches are original but they are working just fine.  I believe Bill R’s and Mark’s explanation regarding the ‘permanent circuit’ explains why I was still seeing the leak with the switches off, but I appreciate your thoughts.


Hello John,

My rudimentary understanding is where there is voltage there is current.

After I get this rectified, I am going to check and make sure there is no issue with the rigging.  I appreciate the suggestion.


Bill R and Mark,

There are two wires on the negative post of the ‘permanent’ bus but I have not traced them yet.  With your information, I was able to narrow the leak down to the instrument circuit.  With the instrument circuit breaker off, the positive leak goes away.  I will do some more investigating tomorrow and report back when I figure things out further or ask for more assistance if I hit a road block.

My sincere thanks to you both for your help.  I will sleep much better tonight knowing the leak has been temporarily removed.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
Currently Exploring City Island, NY

www.RitaKathryn.com


Re: Trouble-shooting MHU B&G213

Ian Townsend
 

Not sure what you consider low wind speeds but we have not experienced inaccuracies at any speed. 

Ian & Margaret
Loca Lola II
SM153

On Sep 6, 2021, at 11:02 PM, Paul Harries via groups.io <Pharries@...> wrote:

How accurate do you find the ultrasonic wind sensors? I read reports of them being not so good at low speed, is that BS?
--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Hypalon-RIB 250cm storage

Slavko Despotovic
 

Hello,

I am planning to order new Hypalon RIB 250cm. Maine objective is to be able to put it in to aft storage (lazzarete) when on long passage. I can find the dimension of solid part of dingy but would would be easier to have first hand experience with storage of that kind of dingy.  
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in ACI marina Umag


Re: Lithium battery costs

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hello Joerg;

 

Do you mind sharing the name of the Mastervolt dealer in Spain you worked with? How was your experience with the dealer?

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joerg Esdorn via groups.io
Sent: Monday, September 6, 2021 11:17 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lithium battery costs

 

I had 3 Mastervolt MLI5500 installed on my boat by the Mastervolt dealer in Spain.  They were about E5000 a piece.  Add to that installation which in my case included a MV Easyview monitor and connection of Masterbus cables to all chargers etc, reprogramming Wind, Solar and Hydro chargers, changing the inverter to also power the washing machine and water heater, etc.  if I recall correctly that was about E3-4K, which benefited from the relatively low labor rates in Spain.   So around E20K total.  Well worth it in piece of mind.  The system is awesome.  

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in La Rochelle
 


Re: Trouble-shooting MHU B&G213

Paul Harries
 

How accurate do you find the ultrasonic wind sensors? I read reports of them being not so good at low speed, is that BS?
--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: 24V+ Isolated Ground Leak

Bill Hall
 

Interesting that there would be a permanent on circuit with a transformer.   Would tend to make one kind of crazy

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 7:44 PM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill Hall,

The switches are original but they are working just fine.  I believe Bill R’s and Mark’s explanation regarding the ‘permanent circuit’ explains why I was still seeing the leak with the switches off, but I appreciate your thoughts.


Hello John,

My rudimentary understanding is where there is voltage there is current.

After I get this rectified, I am going to check and make sure there is no issue with the rigging.  I appreciate the suggestion.


Bill R and Mark,

There are two wires on the negative post of the ‘permanent’ bus but I have not traced them yet.  With your information, I was able to narrow the leak down to the instrument circuit.  With the instrument circuit breaker off, the positive leak goes away.  I will do some more investigating tomorrow and report back when I figure things out further or ask for more assistance if I hit a road block.

My sincere thanks to you both for your help.  I will sleep much better tonight knowing the leak has been temporarily removed.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
Currently Exploring City Island, NY

www.RitaKathryn.com


Re: 24V+ Isolated Ground Leak

Paul Stascavage
 

Bill Hall,

The switches are original but they are working just fine.  I believe Bill R’s and Mark’s explanation regarding the ‘permanent circuit’ explains why I was still seeing the leak with the switches off, but I appreciate your thoughts.


Hello John,

My rudimentary understanding is where there is voltage there is current.

After I get this rectified, I am going to check and make sure there is no issue with the rigging.  I appreciate the suggestion.


Bill R and Mark,

There are two wires on the negative post of the ‘permanent’ bus but I have not traced them yet.  With your information, I was able to narrow the leak down to the instrument circuit.  With the instrument circuit breaker off, the positive leak goes away.  I will do some more investigating tomorrow and report back when I figure things out further or ask for more assistance if I hit a road block.

My sincere thanks to you both for your help.  I will sleep much better tonight knowing the leak has been temporarily removed.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
Currently Exploring City Island, NY

www.RitaKathryn.com


Re: Trouble-shooting MHU B&G213

Mark Erdos
 

Ian,

 

Smart move. For the cost of the repair, replace it with something better J I’ve been suckered into two expensive B&G repairs. No more!

 

I have a good friend who also went this route and he loves the update.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ian Townsend
Sent: Monday, September 6, 2021 8:12 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Trouble-shooting MHU B&G213

 

After all the trouble and expense of trying to fix two B&G MHUs, I finally solved this problem by replacing it with an Airmar 220WX weather station.

 

 

 

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>

Date: 2021-09-06 1:03 p.m. (GMT-05:00)

To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Trouble-shooting MHU B&G213

 

Guillaume,

 

I had almost the same problem and did all that you did and more, eventually replacing every removable component on the 213MHU.

 

I went up and down the mast 10-12 times.

 

Finally, I replaced the 213MHU Mount and wire (25m). The wire is permanently fixed to the mount. Thankfully Dan Carlson helped, or actually did a lot of that replacement, but being the one up the mast.

 

Good luck, the 213MHU is still the best and longest-lasting MHU you can buy...all of the others are "throw-away" units, meaning when they fail you throw them away.

 

image.png



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 7:00 AM Ian Park <parkianj@...> wrote:

I had a similar problem last year. New transducer. It turned out to be the screen display that was faulty. That was a Raymarine setup. The local agent lent me a working transducer with a short lead to plug into the display which proved which end was the problem.

Ian. ‘Ocean Hobo’ SN96  - Milford Haven





Re: Q sails unacceptable delay

 

Yes, Ken wrote me when this happened and I stepped in and was in touch with QSails until they were shipped. 

Your order was delayed because of a supply chain issue with Dimension Polyant, complicated by numerous broken promises to QSails.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Mon, Sep 6, 2021, 6:27 PM Bryce Procter via groups.io <Balibryce=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Jose,

I too had delays in receiving my sails from QSails. I ordered a full set of Hydranet sails, ballooners and a storm sail so it was quite an expense. Initially I was very concerned when there was a delay though have since received all of my sails and am more than happy with them.
The only real issue seemed to have been a poor line of communication. Thanks to Ken Powers from SV Aquarius this problem was quickly resolved and I would be more than happy to recommend QSails to anyone looking for new sails. I have in fact just done so to a friend of mine for his recently purchased 75' Royal Huismann.

Cheers

Bryce Procter
SM2K #467
Seamaster II


Re: Q sails unacceptable delay

Bryce Procter
 

Hello Jose,

I too had delays in receiving my sails from QSails. I ordered a full set of Hydranet sails, ballooners and a storm sail so it was quite an expense. Initially I was very concerned when there was a delay though have since received all of my sails and am more than happy with them.
The only real issue seemed to have been a poor line of communication. Thanks to Ken Powers from SV Aquarius this problem was quickly resolved and I would be more than happy to recommend QSails to anyone looking for new sails. I have in fact just done so to a friend of mine for his recently purchased 75' Royal Huismann.

Cheers

Bryce Procter
SM2K #467
Seamaster II


Re: Lithium battery costs

Joerg Esdorn
 

I had 3 Mastervolt MLI5500 installed on my boat by the Mastervolt dealer in Spain.  They were about E5000 a piece.  Add to that installation which in my case included a MV Easyview monitor and connection of Masterbus cables to all chargers etc, reprogramming Wind, Solar and Hydro chargers, changing the inverter to also power the washing machine and water heater, etc.  if I recall correctly that was about E3-4K, which benefited from the relatively low labor rates in Spain.   So around E20K total.  Well worth it in piece of mind.  The system is awesome.  

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in La Rochelle
 


Re: 24V+ Isolated Ground Leak

Mark McGovern
 

Paul,

Bill beat me to it.  As a first check, I would turn off the switch on the Sailor 24v to 12v Step Down Transformer and see if the Masse light still illuminates when you test it.  If it does not, you know that it's something that is being powered by that transformer causing the leak.  As Bill said, there are only a few things that should be powered by that transformer so it should be pretty easy to trace down.

Here's a slightly better pics that might help you locate it:




--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Belfast, ME USA


Re: 24V+ Isolated Ground Leak

John Clark
 

Hi Paul and Bill,
   Am I wrong in thinking that the voltage readings are correct?   Amperage through the bonding system would be a problem.  

My SM 37, has had varying anode lifetimes.  Marinas and shore power shorten life,  I am currently moored and have been working a job in St Thomas for a year and a half. Before that boat parked in Brunswick GA with no shore power.   Cumulative four days in marina in STT and 2018 zincs look good to me.  A few years ago we spent a good amount of time in Le Marin at the dock…zincs did not like that.

Another place to check is the rigging.  My friend on SM24 had a sudden outbreak of rust trails from the rigging mounts.  He had 24v on the rig from a worn cable.  I had a similar experience with a previous owner installed 24v outlet on the main mast that corroded.

Boats….always something.  


  

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 3:57 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Paul,

There is a 24-volt wiring bus behind the wood panel directly above the nav tabletop labeled 24-volt Permanent. This is hot when the switches are off. The only thing connected to that bus should be the 24-12v step-down transformer that powers the chain counter, the AM/FM Radio, and the 24v plugs at the nav station.

Locate this wiring bus. Is there anything connected to it other than the step-down transformer?

Sorry I do not have a better photo...this piece of a photo is all I could find, and note the extra red wire:
image.png

image.png

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 1:43 PM Bill Hall <billhall95688@...> wrote:
How old is the battery disconnect switch or is it corroded internally?

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 11:40 AM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Almost since purchasing our boat, we had a small negative leak that was indicated by the Masse Light.  The electrician in Martinique could not locate the source easily, but said that it was very small and to just keep an eye on the zincs.

Although I tried located the source of this myself many times by disconnecting individual bonding wires, I was never able to locate it.  However, our zincs would get us through 2 years of service with what I considered normal loss (about 30 - 40%) so it didn’t worry me much.

A few months ago, the Masse Light stopped illuminating and I thought maybe something may have fixed itself (wouldn’t that be great?).  But a few weeks ago, when I dove on the zincs, I noticed they had excessive loss and they are slightly less than a year old.

This morning I got out my volt meter, and we do still have a slight negative leak of about 0.009 volts when connecting the voltmeter to the negative post on the battery bank and the bonding wire on the rudder post, but when I checked the positive side, there was a full 25 volts leak indicated!

We recently had our alternator rebuilt so I disconcerted that and found no difference.  I also recently changed the switches on the windless, so I am going to disconnect those and check there as well.  We also had a new VHF radio installed and I will check that, but as that is 12 volts I don’t think that will be it.

I am definitely not electrically proficient, but what boggles me is that when I turn off the battery bank switches, I still show the leakage when testing from the bank.  How is it that with the battery bank isolated, I could still have current going to the bonding system?  What am I missing here?

Any insight and suggestions regarding where I should logically begin my search would be greatly appreciated. I am currently most uncomfortable with that kind of voltage in the bonding system.

Thank you in advance for any and all replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
Currently Exploring City Island, NY


www.RitaKathryn.com

1121 - 1140 of 61023