Date   

Watermaker

Patrick McAneny
 

A couple of questions, I was told by a water maker dealer in Antigua ,that I need to use special prefilters designed for watermakers .I had up to that point used filter elements I bought at Lowes , 5 and 25 microns. Was he just trying to sell me some expensive elements ,or was he telling me the truth and the prefilters  need to be for water makers specifically ?
Secondly , I have the 160l/hr. model ,could someone remind me of the size elements I need to purchase , and suggest a good place to purchase them in the US.
Thank You,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: What to do with LiFePO4 batteries when the boat is layed up?

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Jeorg,
With your existing system, it looks like you only have two options. Either leave powered on float or disconnect completely and have someone attend the boat every 3 months and top them up.

The reason they only last 6 months is that they contain internally embedded electronics which consume some small amount of power. All LFP batteries with internal BMS will have this same problem.  The cells themselves last much longer (years) without needing topped up, but any batteries with internal BMS will always drain down slowly.

As to which option is preferable, my personal choice would be to have them topped up periodically. LFP do not like to be floated at high states of charge for long periods as it does negatively impact their life.

In my system I have 115Ah of Lead Acid in parallel with my LFP cells, so my wintering strategy involves dropping the LFP cells to about 60% SOC and disconnecting them completely from the system and the (external) BMS.  Unfortunately this is not possible if you have batteries with an internal BMS. 

Sorry, not much help!

Dean
SV Stella
A54-154

 


Re: Lithium Battery BMS

Paul Harries
 

Thx


On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 0:56, Dominique Sery via groups.io
<dominiquesery@...> wrote:
Paul, why choose 12 volt batteries for a 24 volt circuit?  2 main reasons for Victron models (the same problem with Mastervolt batteries): 24 volt batteries do not fit in the battery compartment when standing, they must be laid on their side which is not recommended and  in this case we can only put 2 of 200Ah which is lower than the original capacity, on the other hand the higher weight complicates handling.
Dominique
Irko A54 #16 Kilada Greece

--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: Lithium Battery BMS

Juan de Zulueta
 

Dominique,

this is excactly the solution I was looking for.
I hope I can get those equipments shipped in Saint Martin in the Caribbean 

Cordialement 


Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 13 sept. 2021 à 07:50, Dominique Sery via groups.io <dominiquesery@...> a écrit :

Bonjour Juan,
it’s easy to control the Mastervolt alternator with external Alpha pro regulator using a Victron Battery-protect (the smallest), in position 7 it is used as a control relay by the Victron Ve-bms.  The consumption is 1.5 mA completely compatible with the maximum authorized current of 10 mA of the Ve-bms.  A second, ordinary relay, powered by the ignition key, will only activate it when the engine is running (+ a manual switch for security).  The bluetooth version of this Battery Protect allows you to control the charge with a smartphone (stop and start).  When I sail with the engine, as soon as the voltage of the batteries reaches 27.6 v (95-98% of charge) I stop the alternator with the smartphone so as not to keep the batteries at a high voltage for too long (the duration of  absorption of 28.5 v is 4 h with the Alpha pro).  For the other loads, if they are Victrons they can be managed by the Ve-bms otherwise either they have a remote control and another small BP will be used or there is none and a Battery protect of suitable power can be put  on the charging cables.  Note that the Ve-bms has a maximum control of 10 mA for the charge and 2 amps for the load (+ 50 mA for the pre-discharge alarm).  A bluetooth BMV with audible alarm informs as soon as the voltage is high or low (adjustable). The smartphone will check each battery cell and you can stop the charge or the load if necessary.
For the battery charger, if you are in the boat, you can drive it yourself with the  bmv and stop it as soon as the charge is finished.
Cordialement
Dominique
Irko A54#16

--
Juan de Zulueta
OPHELIE X
Super Maramu #32


Re: Lithium Battery BMS

Dominique Sery
 

Bonjour Juan,
it’s easy to control the Mastervolt alternator with external Alpha pro regulator using a Victron Battery-protect (the smallest), in position 7 it is used as a control relay by the Victron Ve-bms.  The consumption is 1.5 mA completely compatible with the maximum authorized current of 10 mA of the Ve-bms.  A second, ordinary relay, powered by the ignition key, will only activate it when the engine is running (+ a manual switch for security).  The bluetooth version of this Battery Protect allows you to control the charge with a smartphone (stop and start).  When I sail with the engine, as soon as the voltage of the batteries reaches 27.6 v (95-98% of charge) I stop the alternator with the smartphone so as not to keep the batteries at a high voltage for too long (the duration of  absorption of 28.5 v is 4 h with the Alpha pro).  For the other loads, if they are Victrons they can be managed by the Ve-bms otherwise either they have a remote control and another small BP will be used or there is none and a Battery protect of suitable power can be put  on the charging cables.  Note that the Ve-bms has a maximum control of 10 mA for the charge and 2 amps for the load (+ 50 mA for the pre-discharge alarm).  A bluetooth BMV with audible alarm informs as soon as the voltage is high or low (adjustable). The smartphone will check each battery cell and you can stop the charge or the load if necessary.
For the battery charger, if you are in the boat, you can drive it yourself with the  bmv and stop it as soon as the charge is finished.
Cordialement
Dominique
Irko A54#16


Re: Lithium Battery BMS

Dominique Sery
 

Paul, why choose 12 volt batteries for a 24 volt circuit?  2 main reasons for Victron models (the same problem with Mastervolt batteries): 24 volt batteries do not fit in the battery compartment when standing, they must be laid on their side which is not recommended and  in this case we can only put 2 of 200Ah which is lower than the original capacity, on the other hand the higher weight complicates handling.
Dominique
Irko A54 #16 Kilada Greece


Re: Shore power in the USA

Alan Leslie
 

Mark,
Unless someone changed it, the SM shore power cable is 16A not 32A.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Shore power in the USA

rossirossix4
 

Diagram for wiring Marinco 50 amp 120V Plug to European 220 cord.  Courtesy of Renaissance Marina, Oranjestad, Aruba---   https://photos.app.goo.gl/YvK5E7mWLJTVy6Tx5 

Bob           KAIMI  SM429


Re: Lithium Battery BMS

Juan de Zulueta
 

Bonjour Dominique,

I am very interested by your solution.
I looked into the victron batteries they are indeed much cheaper than the Mastervolt but if I understand the battery protect can be used for lithium batteries to stop the load from the alternator or the charger. This solution would work with my Mastervolt alternator and my Mastervolt charger if I understand since I don t think I can interface VE bus with Masterbus.
Do I need one battery protect for each charging device not supporting ve bus or one for the alternator and one for the charger?


Cordialement.



Juan de Zulueta
+33680895892
sent from my Ipad.

Le 12 sept. 2021 à 17:47, Dominique Sery via groups.io <dominiquesery@...> a écrit :

Bonjour Juan,
My lead batteries need to be changed, I switched to lithium.  I took everything in Victron (cheaper than Mastervolt) and available in stores in France, although the price is still very high.  So 6 x 12.8 v 200 Ah, exactly the same capacity I had in lead.  (half in size) + Skylla 100A charger + 24V 3000 VA inverter + Ve-bms + Battery protect (65A for the 24 v alternator and 200A for the load) + BMV 712 + alarm.Everything is in bluetooth and is controlled with the  Victron-connect application.  In use, it is day and night with the previous equipment.  Why Victron?  Because the size of their batteries fit the battery compartment perfectly and I wanted everything in the same brand.  It works great, according to specs, fast charging, higher load.  No regrets (yet).
 Cordialement
Dominique
A54

--
Juan de Zulueta
OPHELIE X
Super Maramu #32


Re: Kohler Generator not starting

Darrol Martin
 

Hi Bill,

It's a 5KW, 4E FOZ.  Thanks for reaching out.

Regards,
Darrol


Re: Shore power in the USA

Paul Harries
 

https://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Why-You-Should-Add-an-Isolation-Transformer-to-your-Boat/-84973?



On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 15:49, Paul Harries via groups.io
<Pharries@...> wrote:
When u connect to usa 220v both hot wires are live and 110v off from true neutral, best option would be to use an isolation transformer in this situation. Otherwise risk of electrolysis and electric shock.


On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 15:42, Ben Driver
<bddriver@...> wrote:
Wire the neutral on Amel European plug to second hot in North America plug

Ben Driver

On Sep 12, 2021, at 12:35 PM, Mark Pitt <mark_pitt@...> wrote:



I am in a marina is the US and have been using their single-phase 240 volt shore power outlet (with three blades)  without issue for more than two seasons.  Some years ago, I made a pigtail with a European pin-and-sleeve receptacle at one end, to take the 32 amp Amel shore power cord, and a Marinco 125/250v 50 amp 3-blade US plug on the other.  That worked fine at my dock.

 

The Marinco side of the pigtail came apart the other day, so I rewired it but could not find my notes on how I did it the first-time some years ago.  Now I only get 120 volts.  I wired hot to hot (“X”), neutral to neutral, and ground to ground.  I left the “Y” connection on the Marinco empty.  I think that I  remember that to get 240 volts the wiring has to be different.  There is no neutral in European power do perhaps that wire should carry power to “Y”?  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Mark Pitt

Sabbatical III, SM419, Rhode Island, USA


--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer

--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: Shore power in the USA

Paul Harries
 

When u connect to usa 220v both hot wires are live and 110v off from true neutral, best option would be to use an isolation transformer in this situation. Otherwise risk of electrolysis and electric shock.


On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 15:42, Ben Driver
<bddriver@...> wrote:
Wire the neutral on Amel European plug to second hot in North America plug

Ben Driver

On Sep 12, 2021, at 12:35 PM, Mark Pitt <mark_pitt@...> wrote:



I am in a marina is the US and have been using their single-phase 240 volt shore power outlet (with three blades)  without issue for more than two seasons.  Some years ago, I made a pigtail with a European pin-and-sleeve receptacle at one end, to take the 32 amp Amel shore power cord, and a Marinco 125/250v 50 amp 3-blade US plug on the other.  That worked fine at my dock.

 

The Marinco side of the pigtail came apart the other day, so I rewired it but could not find my notes on how I did it the first-time some years ago.  Now I only get 120 volts.  I wired hot to hot (“X”), neutral to neutral, and ground to ground.  I left the “Y” connection on the Marinco empty.  I think that I  remember that to get 240 volts the wiring has to be different.  There is no neutral in European power do perhaps that wire should carry power to “Y”?  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Mark Pitt

Sabbatical III, SM419, Rhode Island, USA


--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: Shore power in the USA

Ben Driver
 

Wire the neutral on Amel European plug to second hot in North America plug

Ben Driver

On Sep 12, 2021, at 12:35 PM, Mark Pitt <mark_pitt@...> wrote:



I am in a marina is the US and have been using their single-phase 240 volt shore power outlet (with three blades)  without issue for more than two seasons.  Some years ago, I made a pigtail with a European pin-and-sleeve receptacle at one end, to take the 32 amp Amel shore power cord, and a Marinco 125/250v 50 amp 3-blade US plug on the other.  That worked fine at my dock.

 

The Marinco side of the pigtail came apart the other day, so I rewired it but could not find my notes on how I did it the first-time some years ago.  Now I only get 120 volts.  I wired hot to hot (“X”), neutral to neutral, and ground to ground.  I left the “Y” connection on the Marinco empty.  I think that I  remember that to get 240 volts the wiring has to be different.  There is no neutral in European power do perhaps that wire should carry power to “Y”?  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Mark Pitt

Sabbatical III, SM419, Rhode Island, USA


Shore power in the USA

Mark Pitt
 

I am in a marina is the US and have been using their single-phase 240 volt shore power outlet (with three blades)  without issue for more than two seasons.  Some years ago, I made a pigtail with a European pin-and-sleeve receptacle at one end, to take the 32 amp Amel shore power cord, and a Marinco 125/250v 50 amp 3-blade US plug on the other.  That worked fine at my dock.

 

The Marinco side of the pigtail came apart the other day, so I rewired it but could not find my notes on how I did it the first-time some years ago.  Now I only get 120 volts.  I wired hot to hot (“X”), neutral to neutral, and ground to ground.  I left the “Y” connection on the Marinco empty.  I think that I  remember that to get 240 volts the wiring has to be different.  There is no neutral in European power do perhaps that wire should carry power to “Y”?  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Mark Pitt

Sabbatical III, SM419, Rhode Island, USA


Re: Lithium Battery BMS

Paul Harries
 

Please help my understanding.
As the boat is 24v why buy 12 v or 6v batteries? My understanding is 12v or 6v would have to be connected in series to give 24 v. Again from what I understand most bms just manage individual batteries as opposed to monitoring batteries as an integrated series. As a result problems could occur if series batteries not balanced. Please educate me on this issue
--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: Tablet Mount

Vladan SV PAME
 

Hi Chuck,

I use this https://www.scanstrut.com/marine/sail-boat/mount/rokk-mini

Best,
--
Vladan

A54 #157
SV PAME


What to do with LiFePO4 batteries when the boat is layed up?

Joerg Esdorn
 

I have 3x Mastervolt MLI Ultra 5500 batteries on my boat, new this year.  I’m starting to think about what to do with the batteries over the winter when I will not be on the boat.  When I had my gel batteries, I would turn off all loads and put the charger on or leave the solar charger on.  Following some of the discussion about charging LiFePO4 batteries on this forum, I‘m gathering that some people think it‘s not a good idea to leave these batteries on a charger all winter long.  However, the MV manual says just that:

„If the battery will not be used for a period exceeding 3 months, we advise the following:
• If external AC power is available switch off all loads and switch on the charger. Apply a float voltage as specified in the following table.
Model Float voltage setting
12V 13.5V 24V 27.0V
• If no external AC power is available:
- Charge the battery to > 80% of its capacity before storage.
- Set the safety relay knob to “LOCK OFF”, see page 11.
- Make sure MasterBus powering is not set to "Always on" (see Configuration tab in
MasterAdjust).
In this setup the batteries can be kept at least 6 months without maintenance. However, it is highly recommended to charge the battery to > 80% of its capacity every 100 days.“

I hate to second guess MV but I wonder if this group includes any engineers with the relevant specialist knowledge who can explain/critique this advice?  

I have considered just disconnecting them but with the boat in the water over the winter, I don‘t want to be without the bilge pump being operative.  

Thanks in advance!

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in La Rochelle



Re: Lithium Battery BMS

Dominique Sery
 

Bonjour Juan,
My lead batteries need to be changed, I switched to lithium.  I took everything in Victron (cheaper than Mastervolt) and available in stores in France, although the price is still very high.  So 6 x 12.8 v 200 Ah, exactly the same capacity I had in lead.  (half in size) + Skylla 100A charger + 24V 3000 VA inverter + Ve-bms + Battery protect (65A for the 24 v alternator and 200A for the load) + BMV 712 + alarm.Everything is in bluetooth and is controlled with the  Victron-connect application.  In use, it is day and night with the previous equipment.  Why Victron?  Because the size of their batteries fit the battery compartment perfectly and I wanted everything in the same brand.  It works great, according to specs, fast charging, higher load.  No regrets (yet).
 Cordialement
Dominique
A54


Re: Additional webbing above tack on Q-Sails Genoa Question

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Thank you for that write up Bill. That was very helpful and informative. You contribute much to the forum. 

Chuck and Kim. Joy


Re: Kohler Generator not starting

Bill Kinney
 

Darryl,

Which model generator do you have?

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

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