Date   

Re: Winter berth at Tuscany

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Porto mirabello off la spezia, we spent a winter there, expensive but great shipyard, very protected, nice town all winter.... 


On Thursday, October 14, 2021, MICHELE LUCCIOLA <michelelucciol@...> wrote:
Hello and welcome to Italy
 I can suggest Cala Galera as winter port or Punta Ala more northerly . Both are expensive but both have a good yard for the annual maintenance. In addiction if you are thinking to live aboard during the winter you need to have a little car or bike to reach the shops in the main village.
All the best
Michele


Re: 12V alternator for D3 Volvo on Amel 54

Ian Fraser
 

Scott,

This is excellent advice, and I suspect the previous owner hoped that Olivier’s advice was good! I will see if the alternator I have can be isolated from ground!

Thank you.

Ian

On 14 Oct 2021, at 06:14, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Ian,

When you say "the alternator picks up the -ve from a case connection", do you mean alternator case? If so, there's a small chance that the alternator is isolated. Did you check continuity between the alternator case and the engine block? If none exists, you're good to go.

I had trouble finding an "isolated" 12v alternator when I had to replace mine. The Volvo one I found was not isolated. We ended up modifying it ourselves to isolate it by drilling out the mounting bracket hole to allow for a delrin sleeve around the mounting bolt and also using a delrin washer between the alternator-side bracket and the engine-side bracket.

Then we connected the always-on 12v battery negative to one of the bolts on the alternator case. I have verified with a multimeter that no continuity exists between the alternator and bonding system and that the alternator supplies charging current as intended.

There is, of course, the entire ground isolation solenoid system, which I hope your boat still has.

Note that your masse+/- light is useless in looking for 12v bonding faults as it's designed to look for 24v faults.

At the end of the day, I will roughly quote Olivier when he said that a non-isolated alternator is not ideal, but it's not the end of the world as many other boats have their 12v system connected to bonding. Fix it if you can, but don't panic if you can't right away.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: 12V alternator for D3 Volvo on Amel 54

Ian Fraser
 

Excellent Bill. Thanks for the advice…..It’s the isolated ground that seems to be the issue.

On 13 Oct 2021, at 22:46, Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

Ian,

Look around for these.  Alternators are very standardized.  Once you know the size (50 Amp), and the type of mounting bracket (not sure for your engine, but there are only a few choices and are easily distinguished with a few measurements) any one will do.  

A quality, name brand, 50 Amp isolated ground marine alternator shouldn't cost more than $350 (and that's on the VERY high end!).  The green paint Volvo puts on the alternators they buy and resell is the MOST EXPENSIVE green paint on the planet.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: B&G Sonic Speed sensors replacement

MICHELE LUCCIOLA
 

Thank you very much Gary for your explanation; I was going  crazy to find the second pipe below the table....
I have found on ebay a spare sensors and i will do the job this winter when the boat will be houled.
For the moment I wish to thank you for your assistance. If you need something from Italy I'm at your disposal
Big Hug
Michele


Re: Winter berth at Tuscany

MICHELE LUCCIOLA
 

Hello and welcome to Italy
 I can suggest Cala Galera as winter port or Punta Ala more northerly . Both are expensive but both have a good yard for the annual maintenance. In addiction if you are thinking to live aboard during the winter you need to have a little car or bike to reach the shops in the main village.
All the best
Michele


Re: 12V alternator for D3 Volvo on Amel 54

Scott SV Tengah
 

Ian,

When you say "the alternator picks up the -ve from a case connection", do you mean alternator case? If so, there's a small chance that the alternator is isolated. Did you check continuity between the alternator case and the engine block? If none exists, you're good to go.

I had trouble finding an "isolated" 12v alternator when I had to replace mine. The Volvo one I found was not isolated. We ended up modifying it ourselves to isolate it by drilling out the mounting bracket hole to allow for a delrin sleeve around the mounting bolt and also using a delrin washer between the alternator-side bracket and the engine-side bracket.

Then we connected the always-on 12v battery negative to one of the bolts on the alternator case. I have verified with a multimeter that no continuity exists between the alternator and bonding system and that the alternator supplies charging current as intended.

There is, of course, the entire ground isolation solenoid system, which I hope your boat still has.

Note that your masse+/- light is useless in looking for 12v bonding faults as it's designed to look for 24v faults.

At the end of the day, I will roughly quote Olivier when he said that a non-isolated alternator is not ideal, but it's not the end of the world as many other boats have their 12v system connected to bonding. Fix it if you can, but don't panic if you can't right away.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: 12V alternator for D3 Volvo on Amel 54

Bill Kinney
 

Ian,

Look around for these.  Alternators are very standardized.  Once you know the size (50 Amp), and the type of mounting bracket (not sure for your engine, but there are only a few choices and are easily distinguished with a few measurements) any one will do.  

A quality, name brand, 50 Amp isolated ground marine alternator shouldn't cost more than $350 (and that's on the VERY high end!).  The green paint Volvo puts on the alternators they buy and resell is the MOST EXPENSIVE green paint on the planet.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: 12V alternator for D3 Volvo on Amel 54

 

Ian,

I know this 54. You have a big job ahead of you. The original 12v alternator would have been attached to the engine by Volvo, and the isolation ground wired by Volvo France. But since there was nothing special about the 12v alternator, call your Volvo dealer with the model and serial number. They will be able to help you. Hopefully, important parts like C-Drive shafts and the AutoProp did not suffer too much electrolysis. 

You should check with Volvo, but I think that your D3 originally came with Volvo Penta Alternator part number 8676498. Here are some that match 8676498

Be sure to check that 8676498 is the correct number and that it is isolated ground.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 1:35 PM Ian Fraser <keyproperties@...> wrote:
We are slowly working through the rehabilitation of our recent purchase of an Amel 54. This community has been an invaluable source of great advice and I'm constantly amazed at the body of knowledge and cooperation amongst Amelians! Thank you.

Grateful if anyone can advise a source for a replacement 12V alternator for Volvo D3 on Amel 54 #009. It looks like the previous owner of our A54 replaced the original with an alternator that cannot be isolated from the bonding. In other words there's no negative terminal and the alternator picks up the -ve from a case connection. The previous owner bridged the -ve start solenoid and therefore defeated the 12V -ve isolation from bonding.

Any suggestion would be gratefully received.

Ian Fraser
Dreamtime
A54 #009


12V alternator for D3 Volvo on Amel 54

Ian Fraser
 

We are slowly working through the rehabilitation of our recent purchase of an Amel 54. This community has been an invaluable source of great advice and I'm constantly amazed at the body of knowledge and cooperation amongst Amelians! Thank you.

Grateful if anyone can advise a source for a replacement 12V alternator for Volvo D3 on Amel 54 #009. It looks like the previous owner of our A54 replaced the original with an alternator that cannot be isolated from the bonding. In other words there's no negative terminal and the alternator picks up the -ve from a case connection. The previous owner bridged the -ve start solenoid and therefore defeated the 12V -ve isolation from bonding.

Any suggestion would be gratefully received.

Ian Fraser
Dreamtime
A54 #009


Re: WaterLift Muffler for Volvo

Ron Hynes
 

Just a cautionary tale for those of us that occasionally put off critical items that they know they should Address now but for whatever reason decide to wait.


Several years ago I was traveling north from Florida and while in Charleston, noted some minor cracks in the top surface of my lift muffler. I thought I should keep an eye on that. My next stop in Southport, North Carolina, I noted that the cracks had deepened somewhat so I bought some epoxy and glass cloth to make a repair. I properly cleaned and prepared the surface and the repair cured well overnight and looked substantial, maybe even permanent. 


As luck would have it, the only motoring I did it for the next two days was out the Cape fear River to the ocean. I made a left and continued north to the blight at Cape Lookout where I anchored for 36 hours to wait for favorable winds to pass around Cape Hatteras.  I left at sunrise and experienced great sailing until I just rounded the Cape. The wind died and an updated weather forecast stated that within eight to 10 hours I would be experiencing strong northerly winds. With that in mind I motored at my full cruising speed. During an hourly check of the engine room, I noticed that the lift muffler had now ruptured and was spewing very hot sea water and diesel exhaust. In retrospect I probably should have reversed course and traveled back to Beaufort, probably 10 hours or so astern at this point. But I am somewhat of a hardheaded sailor and never really like to give up distance made.


I filled a large stainless steel salad bowl with wet rags and strapped it down over the rupture in the muffler. It seem to work quite well although there was still some leakage. I still had about 20 hours of motoring before I would reach a refuge in the Chesapeake. During this time, at every hourly engine check the rupture was getting worse.


It is difficult to imagine how much soot was deposited on every surface in the engine room. The sound insulation was soaked. My three beautiful cream colored Racor fuel filters were now almost black.


It was unfortunately July 4 weekend and all the marinas were packed with no room. I even tried to impose a harbor of refuge appeal on two marinas without success. I finally was able to stop in Deltaville Virginia, and placed an order for a replacement lift muffler.  The replacement arrived and was surprisingly easy to install and reconnect the exhaust hoses.


After getting two estimates of more than $2000 from smoke and fire remediation companies, I reluctantly called my insurance company for help. They eventually had a firm visit the boat and spent two days attempting to clean up the mess. Apparently there is no solvent for this soot which is deposited at fairly high temperature due to the exhaust gases and complicated by the fact that it’s in a saltwater spray. I really can’t imagine a worse concoction. After the insurance clean up, I was still embarrassed to show anybody my engine room. I spent hours and hours plus hired two other workers to help and we tried over $150 worth of different solvents. Nothing really dissolves this residue.


If you consult the available charts, my 109 hp Volvo penta requires a minimum exhaust diameter of 2 1/4 inches, exactly what the boat was equipped with. A former owner, however, I had lost two engines to following seas getting into his engine and had installed a ball valve in the exhaust line above the lift muffler. This reduced the effective size of the exhaust by 31%! Probably explains why my new lift muffler is the fourth one that has been on this boat. I have increased the diameter of the exhaust to 3 inches both in hopes of reducing the possibility of another lift muffler failure and in anticipation of re-powering. But to reiterate, just a warning to all to never ignore a potential calamity like happened to me. As my brother said, I think the only worst thing that could happen was if the boat had sunk!


Ron Hynes
S/V Swan Song - Meltem #29
954.319.0944

On Oct 13, 2021, at 10:28 AM, Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

There are two "elbows."  One is the rotatable elbow integral to the muffler. That is a 45 degree elbow.  The other is a 3 1/2" diameter, 90 degree elbow made by Trident Rubber that we sourced from Defender (with the water lift itself.)

The angle of the photo gives a bit of a distorted perspective.

I was prepared for quite a bit more of a struggle in getting it located and connected.  Every once in a great while a project turns out to be EASIER than expected.  


Re: Winter berth at Tuscany

antonio scipioni
 

Dear jose
Cala Galera is the best place
You can ask for a berth to agenzia pianelli
Cell 0039 0564 832344
Br
Antonio
Sn108 vagabundo
Cala Galera

Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 13 ott 2021, alle ore 15:27, PAOLO CUNEO <pc43ge@gmail.com> ha scritto:

Dear Jose,
Welcoming place the Tuscany coast for Amelians. During my cruising, I found Amel boats and knowledgeable owners based there in three consecutive marinas: Cala Dei Medici, San Vincenzo and Salivoli. I never wintered there but it I had the Impression of a degree of familiarity with the brand also on the part of technician and service personnel
Bests,
Paolo Cuneo
SM 454 Whisper

Inviato da iPad

--
Paolo Cuneo
SM 454 Whisper





Re: WaterLift Muffler for Volvo

Bill Kinney
 

There are two "elbows."  One is the rotatable elbow integral to the muffler. That is a 45 degree elbow.  The other is a 3 1/2" diameter, 90 degree elbow made by Trident Rubber that we sourced from Defender (with the water lift itself.)

The angle of the photo gives a bit of a distorted perspective.

I was prepared for quite a bit more of a struggle in getting it located and connected.  Every once in a great while a project turns out to be EASIER than expected.  


Re: Winter berth at Tuscany

PAOLO CUNEO
 

Dear Jose,
Welcoming place the Tuscany coast for Amelians. During my cruising, I found Amel boats and knowledgeable owners based there in three consecutive marinas: Cala Dei Medici, San Vincenzo and Salivoli. I never wintered there but it I had the Impression of a degree of familiarity with the brand also on the part of technician and service personnel
Bests,
Paolo Cuneo
SM 454 Whisper

Inviato da iPad

--
Paolo Cuneo
SM 454 Whisper


Re: Winter berth at Tuscany

Rick Stanley
 

Jose,

             A couple of years ago while touring Italy we sailed from Porto Santo Stefano marina out to Giglio island in Tuscany. Seemed really nice, although I can't answer regarding the quality of the shipyard.

Cheers!!

Rick Stanley
S/V Althea
2001 SM2K
Rock Hall, MD


Re: More pics Annapolis Show

Matt Salatino
 

Say Hi to Justin for us…..


Winter berth at Tuscany

Jose Alegria
 

Dear  Amelians
Advice  needed on marina in Tuscany to spend the winter ideally with a good shipyard.
Thanks



Jose Alegria
Amel55 #03-MERIT
+351918663037
Josealegr@...



email test

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

No response required_._,_._,_


Re: Firefly batteries (and lithium)

David Vogel
 

Hi all,

I replaced 12x failing AGMs in Feb’20 with 10x Fireflys (wired as 5x series-pairs, no tie between the mid-point, and no battery balancers, but these upgrades are both planned for the coming quarter).

This provides a capacity of 5x116Ah=580Ah @ 24V. My normal ‘floor’ for discharge is 50%SoC, giving useable capacity 290Ah, versus the useable capacity of the AGMs (with a routine discharge floor of 80%SoC) of 126Ah @ 24V. The difference provided by the flexibility to accommodate longer periods between charge (e.g. a cloudy afternoon, or day, or extended time away from the boat), is noticeable. We also use less gas for cooking, preferring by a large margin now to use a single induction hob - this is an essential aspect in reducing the hassle-factor associated with prolonged remote area cruising.

For installation, the FFs were slightly taller than the AGM. So I did need to shave about a cm off the aft end of the battery securing bar under the battery compartment lid. I retained the two best of the old AGM as ‘spacers’, so the battery compartment remained full. These AGMS remain wired up, but without the electrical tie between each of that pair.

As an aside, I am newly considering using the spare pair of old-but-good AGMs to power an independent 24V bus for the HF, and thereby eliminating annoying sources of interference such as the inverter, fridges, and the wind-gen. But that is a topic for another day.

In service, I use the externally regulated 175Ah Leece-Neville high-capacity alternator to do a monthly charge-to-float of the FFs (initial Charge Acceptance Rate is up to 160Amps), and do try to do a charge-to-float once a week using the original 100A Dolphin charger (initial charge acceptance rate is normally 86-95 Amps). The external regulator seems to handle periods of extended motoring within spec, so I do not need to manage that aspect by manually switching the alternator in and out – something less to worry about whilst on-passage.

I do check each individual battery’s voltage and state-of-health whenever we have a more-than-fleeting access to shore power (which is somewhere between every 9 and 12 months), and manually balance each battery and then pair by charging each individual battery to extended float, discharge the pair, then charge the pair back-to-float again. If, after this treatment, any individual battery seems a little off, I give it special attention, but this has happened once only, and not seen again. BTW, each FF battery is stamped with it’s own serial number, so it’s easy to keep track of which one is where, should I wish to mix-and-match the batteries around the battery compartment. Also, I have never taken the whole battery bank down to 0%SoC.

So far, the batteries are performing well, and I recommend them as a convenient ‘almost drop in’ route to anyone considering lithium, but unwilling or unable to make the leap. For me, I did the upgrade in The Marquesas, where both expertise and access to spare parts, or any extra bits’n’pieces needed for extended electrical work, is very sparse – so it was a matter of necessity, doing an upgrade from AGM, with least possible introduced risk. Since then, the lithium-on-a-boat movement has progressed in leaps and bounds, and I have seen some excellent DIY and specialist-contractor-assisted installs of lithium upgrades. If faced now with failing AGMs, and with suitable support around me, I would probably consider to go diret to lithium, but there are other factors also to consider (such as charge and inverting needs & capacity).

The prices of the lithium batteries and other components has plummeted, and is now almost on par with (and in some cases now cheaper than) the 10x FFs – depending on how much you are willing to go direct to the battery manufacture in China, and DiY. In any event, assuming a 5-year service life for the FFs (and I might reasonable expect somewhat longer), when it comes time to replace the FFs, lithium technology will have matured further, and it will make the decision to upgrade to lithium a no-brainer. As others have mentioned, having sufficient charge capacity (solar) is a necessary adjunct to lithium on-board. I am presently in planning to replace our 4x100W panels with 3x450W, which will enable reduced genset run-times in the immediate timeframe, and establish a nice springboard for the later transition to lithium.

Hope this adds to the discussion, and provides food for thought.

Best,

David
SM#396, Perigee
Fiji, almost bound for NZ


Re: WaterLift Muffler for Volvo

 

Bill,

Not to be picky, but isn't that elbow less than 90 degrees?


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
Wow, that is a clean install. Thanks for that.

I bet the white straps show stains!

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:33 AM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

We have finished the swap of the old Amel bespoke water lift with a Vetus LSG on our Volvo TMD22. A very simple change. If this comes up for anybody else this might save a bit of research time.



We put a rubber pad between the Vetus and the engine frame and strapped the unit tightly to the frame using the straps supplied by Vetus.  We added an additional rubber pad between the water lift and the hull. In case it does settle and touch the hull,this should reduce any chafing. 

A single Trident Rubber 3 1/2” 90 deg elbow connects the engine exhaust elbow to the water lift.

Our connection between the engine is 3 1/2”, the hoses from the outlet of the water lift on are all 3”.  As far as we found the muffler is only sold with identical inlet and outlet fittings.  But extra fittings are sold, and are all interchangeable. 


Re: WaterLift Muffler for Volvo

 

Wow, that is a clean install. Thanks for that.

I bet the white straps show stains!

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:33 AM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

We have finished the swap of the old Amel bespoke water lift with a Vetus LSG on our Volvo TMD22. A very simple change. If this comes up for anybody else this might save a bit of research time.



We put a rubber pad between the Vetus and the engine frame and strapped the unit tightly to the frame using the straps supplied by Vetus.  We added an additional rubber pad between the water lift and the hull. In case it does settle and touch the hull,this should reduce any chafing. 

A single Trident Rubber 3 1/2” 90 deg elbow connects the engine exhaust elbow to the water lift.

Our connection between the engine is 3 1/2”, the hoses from the outlet of the water lift on are all 3”.  As far as we found the muffler is only sold with identical inlet and outlet fittings.  But extra fittings are sold, and are all interchangeable. 

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