Date   

Anchor chain galvanizing

Bill Kinney
 

The last time we had old and tired chain I looked around for a place that could galvanize at a reasonable price.  For what ever reason, I could not find anybody, so we bought new chain.  

We did get an excellent price on that chain, but as we learned later, it was electrogalvanized, not hot dipped.  Electrogalvanizing leaves a VERY thin, although smooth and pretty, layer of zinc on the surface of the chain.  it is generally NOT recommended for applications in "severely corrosive" applications. Soaking carbon steel in salt water certainly has to rate as a "severely corrosive" application.

Now, a bit less than 3 years later, our chain has lost much of its protective zinc layer and is starting to rust.  This time I did manage to find a place reasonably local to where we are who quoted about $300 for 300 feet of chain and our anchor.  This was Baltimore Galvanizing. Since we were in Annapolis at the time, this was a reasonable distance to manage.  The price was attractive since the best price we could find for 300 feet of 3/8 inch (10 mm) G4 grade chain was about $1500 delivered.

We disassembled our Mantus 105 lb anchor, and loaded the three pieces along with the chain on a scrap pallet we scrounged up from the engine dealer at the boat yard. We were fortunate that a visiting friend showed up with a pickup truck to help with the delivery to the plant.  A week later, the work was completed.

For the anchor, we just ordered new, galvanized structural bolts to replace the originals. The originals from Mantus were standard Grade 5 galvanized bolts.  The structural bolts we used were also hot dip galvanized, and the A325 grade has identical strength rating as the Grade 5 originals.  The difference is that the structural bolts have an unthreaded shoulder which makes them stronger in shear loading.

The chain itself was, as expected, significantly rougher in texture than before.  The zinc coating was thick, and well adhered.  There were about a dozen places in the length where a few links had stuck together, but a wack with a hammer fixed these easily as we loaded the chain onto the boat.  The rougher texture meant that the chain does not "flow" as easily as it did before, and piles up in a steeper cone in the chain locker.  No where near high enough to be an issue in the Super Maramu chain locker, but on an Amel54 it might be a problem.

The coating on the anchor was also thicker and rougher than the factory original.  Not as pretty, but hopefully longer lasting!  Our anchor really wasn't in desperate need of new galvanizing, but since we were paying the shop minimum job price, it was included at no additional cost.

Even with the cost of renting a pickup truck to move the chain one way, we spent less than 1/3 the cost of what new chain would have been.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: All that stuff hanging off the stern-- Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
 

There is a lot to be said about good seamanship. All things not secured properly will move in any big sea. This is the reason containers fall off ships. I have also seen containers pushed in by the force of waves.

We also have a solar arch along with well over a hundred other Amels. Many of which have sailed thousands of sea miles. The only time the solar arch is used with the dinghy hoisted is in sheltered waters otherwise the dinghy is folded and stowed in the lazerette when sailing offshore.

When offshore extra tie downs are passed on the solar arch to ensure it is secured well and to limit movement. I too would not hesitate to cut it free if sea state and weather were likely to compromise the safety of our vessel.

We are very happy with the solar arch and the self sufficiency it provides us when cruising.

Kind regards
Ross and Donna
SV Intrepid Kiwi
Currently cruising Turkey


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:42 AM, Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

Eric,

I have read your article several times, and it is really a touchstone for me. The conditions you went through are worse than I have ever had to sail in, although I did get pounded pretty hard (for many days) on a trip back across from Hawaii to California. I saw several times the "submarine boat" you described. It was an educational experience.  Especially the time I was working to sort out a problem with the furling gear at the bow when the boat disappeared... We had rail mounted solar panels (folded down) that took a hit from waves hard enough to break stanchions. Fortunately just broken metal, not ripped fiberglass. Another lesson learned.

I once expressed an opinion that I thought having a dinghy on davits was a hazard offshore. We have seen a boat limping back to harbor with totally twisted and mangled davits when a wave filled the dinghy hanging there. A very popular internet guru responded that he had an Island Packet 38 with REALLY high freeboard and just could not image a wave large enough to poop his dinghy while it was hanging on davits... I was kind of flabbergasted. As if the ocean cares how good your imagination is...

We have decided that an intermediate approach fits our risk/benefit equation.  A simple arch with only solar panels.  No davits, no other attachments.  If we ever really expected to be in serious survival conditions offshore, I'd cut the whole thing away without a second thought.  Total cost of replacement, about $8K.  Peace of mind:  Priceless.  

I don't worry about it at all with wind, it had no issue with winds of 70 knots in Hurricane Dorian.  Waves: A totally different story.  If we were ever in a situation where waves were large enough to impact the solar panels in any way I KNOW the structure would be compromised.

I know and understand that our choice is not the best from all perspectives.  But I know that the value of having a solar system that supplies half of our power needs is significant.  Not just from a cost perspective but extending our self sufficiency, and off grid fuel independence is really a major addition to our boat's capabilities.

Bill Kinney
Sm160,  Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey


Re: All that stuff hanging off the stern-- Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

Hi Bill,

I like what Ian Jenkins did with his boat . When I am in the Caribbean this season, I hope to be able to have the

A similar dodger made with solar panels.

 

With respect to fuel independence, we can carry 325 gallons all in tanks.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Bill Kinney
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 12:42 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] All that stuff hanging off the stern-- Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

 

Eric,

I have read your article several times, and it is really a touchstone for me. The conditions you went through are worse than I have ever had to sail in, although I did get pounded pretty hard (for many days) on a trip back across from Hawaii to California. I saw several times the "submarine boat" you described. It was an educational experience.  Especially the time I was working to sort out a problem with the furling gear at the bow when the boat disappeared... We had rail mounted solar panels (folded down) that took a hit from waves hard enough to break stanchions. Fortunately just broken metal, not ripped fiberglass. Another lesson learned.

I once expressed an opinion that I thought having a dinghy on davits was a hazard offshore. We have seen a boat limping back to harbor with totally twisted and mangled davits when a wave filled the dinghy hanging there. A very popular internet guru responded that he had an Island Packet 38 with REALLY high freeboard and just could not image a wave large enough to poop his dinghy while it was hanging on davits... I was kind of flabbergasted. As if the ocean cares how good your imagination is...

We have decided that an intermediate approach fits our risk/benefit equation.  A simple arch with only solar panels.  No davits, no other attachments.  If we ever really expected to be in serious survival conditions offshore, I'd cut the whole thing away without a second thought.  Total cost of replacement, about $8K.  Peace of mind:  Priceless.  

I don't worry about it at all with wind, it had no issue with winds of 70 knots in Hurricane Dorian.  Waves: A totally different story.  If we were ever in a situation where waves were large enough to impact the solar panels in any way I KNOW the structure would be compromised.

I know and understand that our choice is not the best from all perspectives.  But I know that the value of having a solar system that supplies half of our power needs is significant.  Not just from a cost perspective but extending our self sufficiency, and off grid fuel independence is really a major addition to our boat's capabilities.

Bill Kinney
Sm160,  Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: Bilge pump gear

 

Great!

I did this about 8 years ago and could not remember the circlip. Thanks for the photos.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 4:49 AM Nicole e Nilson Noronha <marfimmadri@...> wrote:
Thank you very much for your help 
We tried but no success with de mallet.
There’s this little “lock” inside that we didn’t know (pictures attached).
We asked a mechanic and he helped us.
Thank you so much, this group, the amel book and Bill’s help have been a life saver since we bought our first Amel last June.
Fair winds

Nicole & Nilson

SV Marfim Madri 
Amel 54 #075
Santa Cruz de Tenerife 




Re: FW: Comparing Amel Super Maramu to the Amel 54 & 55

Alain Durante <info@...>
 

Bonjour Rod,

 

I am the owner of a beautiful Amel 54 and she will be for sale soon.*

The boat is located in south of France.

 

Let me know if you might be interested?

 

Cordialement,

 

Alain Durante

Amel 54 / Meige

 

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> De la part de David Dickman via groups.io
Envoyé : jeudi 21 octobre 2021 22:15
À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Group Moderators <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] FW: Comparing Amel Super Maramu to the Amel 54 & 55

 

hi Rod,

   I am just getting ready to purchase an Amel and would really appreciate seeing the article if possible.

 

Thanks,

    David

 

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 8:02 AM Rod Rance <rjrance@...> wrote:

What a great read Joel, thank you so much for sharing this - I think you have helped me decide (confirm) which Amel I want - 54
Rod Rance, Amel Fan - Future owner ;)


Re: Bilge pump gear

Nicole e Nilson Noronha <marfimmadri@...>
 

Thank you very much for your help 
We tried but no success with de mallet.
There’s this little “lock” inside that we didn’t know (pictures attached).
We asked a mechanic and he helped us.
Thank you so much, this group, the amel book and Bill’s help have been a life saver since we bought our first Amel last June.
Fair winds

Nicole & Nilson

SV Marfim Madri 
Amel 54 #075
Santa Cruz de Tenerife 




Re: European Fire Extinguishers

Ian Park
 

I replaced all my extinguishers last year and went for ‘water mist’ extinguishers, including the engine room. They operate by obliterating any space for oxygen. They can be used on cooking fat fires instead of a blanket. Three main criteria were that they don’t leave powder residue, just water, they don’t damage electrics and they are easier to recharge.
I have no evidence from real time situations, but the principles seem sound.

Ian. ‘Ocean Hobo’ SN96. UK


Re: FW: Comparing Amel Super Maramu to the Amel 54 & 55

Scott SV Tengah
 

I agree that Amel made a big mistake using the Bamar MEJ furlers on the 54. Both our staysail and Genoa furlers failed shortly after we bought the boat. The top seal was poorly designed, dries out and the furlers each had half a liter or more of water in them.

The replacement Bamar EJF are better, although not perfect. The Genoa EJF furler failed a few months after install due to a manufacturing defect (replaced by Bamar under warranty, thankfully) and they inexplicably have aluminum sandwiched right next to stainless, which causes the pretty black paint to bubble right off.

Jamie did it right by biting the bullet, opening his wallet wide and replacing his Bamar with Reckmann. That said, our EJF have performed flawlessly since Feb 2019 despite the paint bubbling.

Bruno - I am curious what other electrical safety measures Amel introduced with the 55 that do not exist on the earlier boats? Many of us have modified the electrical system on our boats quite a bit to accommodate lithium, so I'd love to hear what else we can do to improve the safety of our systems. I added three fuses, one 450amp for each 12v pair, to the battery bank. It has already saved us once when a marine electrician forgot to turn off the main switches when repairing the bow thruster. 

We looked at the 55 during our boat buying process and the layout change did not suit OUR needs. We are mostly double handed but sometimes bring friends aboard. And they aren't always couples, so having the bunk beds was really important. And we didn't want the master suite up front. Of course, this is a personal preference. That boat is beautiful, though.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Running rigging A54 / SM

mario.rognoni@...
 

Laurent,

Thank you for sourcing the supplier of the AMEL’s running rigging. I would be interested in replacing the main sheet and the mizzen sheet with cordage of the same quality and in the same colors. As to the rest of the running rigging, it depends on the price.

Best regards,

Mario Rognoni
“Arethuse“ 
A54 #130


Re: FW: Comparing Amel Super Maramu to the Amel 54 & 55

Bruno COTTE
 

Of course the 55 is a little bit more complicated due mainly to the electrical  circuit which has more safety elements than on 54 ( relays etc …) it is obviously also more modern as a younger model which also takes into account experience on previous boats . If you are capable to understand and repair electrical potential problems for me the 55 is the best … depending also of the main engine …
All engines are good but capability to find spares easily or a good mechanical advise if needed is not easy with some brands …
The weakest point of the 55 is the price which is close to the double of a 54… 

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 22 oct. 2021 à 04:42, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> a écrit :


Jamie,

I agree completely. The SM is great, the 54 better, and if Amel had used Reckmann, maybe the 54 would be best.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:30 PM Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:

Reading this thread, I thought I might add a few words here, as I have an Amel 54 which I absolutely love. While I like some of the "features" of the 55 (and yes even the 50 which would be out of my realm), I cannot think of a better boat than the 54. The SM would be a close second to me, but the interior layout of the 54 pushed me there when I saw my first 54 in the US Virgins about 6 years ago. I have never seen another boat with those separated seats in the saloon - really fantastic - kind of like "theatre seats."
I will also say that in the 3 rallies to and from the Caribbean I have been in, we were first across the finish line in the BVIs in one case and second (to a Gunboat 60) in another trip. I have had crew tell me they have never sailed that fast. Most boats in that size range cannot keep up.
So, not to disrupt the analysis, ANY Amel would be the best you can do IMHO.
Jamie
Phantom, A54#44


Re: All that stuff hanging off the stern-- Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

Bill Kinney
 

Eric,

I have read your article several times, and it is really a touchstone for me. The conditions you went through are worse than I have ever had to sail in, although I did get pounded pretty hard (for many days) on a trip back across from Hawaii to California. I saw several times the "submarine boat" you described. It was an educational experience.  Especially the time I was working to sort out a problem with the furling gear at the bow when the boat disappeared... We had rail mounted solar panels (folded down) that took a hit from waves hard enough to break stanchions. Fortunately just broken metal, not ripped fiberglass. Another lesson learned.

I once expressed an opinion that I thought having a dinghy on davits was a hazard offshore. We have seen a boat limping back to harbor with totally twisted and mangled davits when a wave filled the dinghy hanging there. A very popular internet guru responded that he had an Island Packet 38 with REALLY high freeboard and just could not image a wave large enough to poop his dinghy while it was hanging on davits... I was kind of flabbergasted. As if the ocean cares how good your imagination is...

We have decided that an intermediate approach fits our risk/benefit equation.  A simple arch with only solar panels.  No davits, no other attachments.  If we ever really expected to be in serious survival conditions offshore, I'd cut the whole thing away without a second thought.  Total cost of replacement, about $8K.  Peace of mind:  Priceless.  

I don't worry about it at all with wind, it had no issue with winds of 70 knots in Hurricane Dorian.  Waves: A totally different story.  If we were ever in a situation where waves were large enough to impact the solar panels in any way I KNOW the structure would be compromised.

I know and understand that our choice is not the best from all perspectives.  But I know that the value of having a solar system that supplies half of our power needs is significant.  Not just from a cost perspective but extending our self sufficiency, and off grid fuel independence is really a major addition to our boat's capabilities.

Bill Kinney
Sm160,  Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: All that stuff hanging off the stern-- Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

Brent Cameron
 

Thanks Eric. I rather suspected that you might have an opinion on the matter. :-). Glad to hear it!  I hope that none of us ever have to face those conditions.   I’m glad you were in an Amel when you did.   

Brent

On Oct 21, 2021, 10:18 PM -0400, Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>, wrote:

I have waited years to voice my opinion.

I have seen many Amels with fabulous solar panel arrays.

I really admire them.

However, in my experience they pose a HAZARD to the boat.

 

I think it was 2010 and we were in a hurricane for 36 hours in 60-foot seas in 100 knots of wind.

Without fail the boat would be totally submerged by breaking waves to the point that we would have to hold our breath till the water subsided . The first thing I recall seeing were just the masts sticking out of the water with no boat visible. Then the rest of the rest of Kimberlite would pop up.  I thought that was cool. This happened 15-20 times during this ordeal.

 

It takes about 20 seconds for the boat to pop up.

 

I have always envisioned having an arch causing 4 large holes in the stern deck where the solar panels and the arch were torn out of the hull.

Just My opinion.

 

Here is the article if you are interested.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

https://www.oceannavigator.com/prepare-for-survival-conditions/

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of David Crisp
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 12:20 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

 

A lot of really helpful information has been written and shared about converting to lithium batteries and the benefits thereof (thank you all). Compared to my experience 20 years ago, when I lived aboard my SM for 3 years, lithium batteries with a large inverter and solar panels sounds like paradise.  In 2019 I was on the verge of going this route but delays caused by the Covid pandemic caused me to follow a compromise route and to drop the lithium battery element. 

 

My route has been to replace the old Dolphin 100A charger with a Victron 24V/3000/70A Multiplus inverter/charger along with 990W of solar panels (three LG Neon2Black (LG330N1K-V5)) managed by a Victron Smart Solar MPPT 100/50. A Victron VE Smart Bus provides voltage and temperature data to the MPPT. I also replaced the old battery monitor with a Victron BMV-712.  The solar panels are mounted above some Simpson electric davits I had installed at the same time.  This year the batteries that came with Wilna Grace gave up the ghost and I replaced them with Victron Gel 110AH instead of going over to Lithium.

 

My cruising plans are to remain in and explore the Mediterranean, spending ~6+months aboard each year. Consequently my demands, and the cost vs. benefit analysis, are perhaps not those of a live aboard round-the-world cruiser. 

After my first season aboard with the new setup I am very very happy. Thanks to the inverter I have good 220V power available on demand, from boiling a kettle (v important to the British) to running the microwave or coffee machine plus my partner can blow-dry/straighten her hair (unfortunately I lost the need to do that some years ago).  Aboard Wilna Grace we run two fridges and a freezer.  On a typical day the batteries are at 90% first thing in the morning and in absorption mode by early afternoon.  The only reason we run the generator is to cook (we have an electric stove (infra-red not induction) but on the plus side running the generator provides hot water.  

 

I’m hopeful that with such shallow cycling the Gel batteries should last 6+ years, not as good a Lithium but not bad.  I’ve only had one season’s experience with this setup, but at the moment the only reason I would change to lithium would be to run an induction stove or to run an air conditioner.  I’m not ruling out lithium, there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind about the benefits; should my cruising plans/needs change I will install lithium in the blink of an eye.

 

For someone on a limited budget and with my type of cruising profile I would prioritise the key elements in the following order: (1) large solar array.  (2) large inverter.  (3) lithium batteries.

 

Attached are some photos of the installation on Wilna Grace and drawings of the solar panel array. From this installation I have had two learnings: -

  1. Make sure you buy a long enough RIB otherwise the spacing of the davits is too long.  I have a Highfield C290 with a Honda 15HP outboard and wish I had bought a longer dinghy.
  2. My panels are completely horizontal so the rain pools on them (assuming we are not rolling at anchor).  In future I would having them slope backwards by ~5 degrees towards the stern. The rain will run off and maybe also wash off dust!


Final share:

We had two other mini-projects this year which have also delivered big benefits. 
(a) Replaced all the halogen bulbs aboard WG with LED (wow does that save power!).
(b) Installed a Caframo Sirocco 2 fan above the aft berth – it provides wonderful relief on a hot August night in Greece, removes the need to run a/c. This fan consumes very little power and is much quieter than other fans I have used.

 

 

Hope it is helpful.

 

David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: Mast rebuilds

Bill Kinney
 

Paul,

We have a 1996 Super  Maramu that has completed two circumnavigations and has been actively sailed every year of its life.  The mast and all of its fittings are original. There have been repairs to various things, but nothing major. Masts do get unstepped for various reasons, not the least of which is a good detailed inspection--better than can be done by someone hanging in a bosuns chair. I have never seen a Super Maramu that had a serious mast issue, but... Metal parts on a boat in salt water live a tough life. Failures of maintenance are usually followed by failures in equipment.

At the simplest level, on any mast I would always make sure that all of the drain holes at the base are open and clear. In many places we have been birds drop seeds while they are perched on the mast.  In Florida, it is seeds of various types of palms. Further north we find pits from wild cherries.  Some of these are the PERFECT size to clog drainage holes, and sometimes I can not understand how they get to where we find them.  They need to be looked for, and removed.  Standing water that doesn't drain as it should can most certainly cause a serious problem.  Don't forget to look for these little buggers in the boxes located in the forward and aft heads that collect the drainage water coming down the wires. When drainage from these is impaired, the boxes overflow, and bulkheads are water damaged, and that is absolutely something you want to avoid!

On any boat I was considering purchasing I would have complete rigging inspection, which included a top to bottom examination of the mast and standing rigging. This is usually done by someone other than the evaluation surveyor.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: FW: Comparing Amel Super Maramu to the Amel 54 & 55

 

Jamie,

I agree completely. The SM is great, the 54 better, and if Amel had used Reckmann, maybe the 54 would be best.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 5:30 PM Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:

Reading this thread, I thought I might add a few words here, as I have an Amel 54 which I absolutely love. While I like some of the "features" of the 55 (and yes even the 50 which would be out of my realm), I cannot think of a better boat than the 54. The SM would be a close second to me, but the interior layout of the 54 pushed me there when I saw my first 54 in the US Virgins about 6 years ago. I have never seen another boat with those separated seats in the saloon - really fantastic - kind of like "theatre seats."
I will also say that in the 3 rallies to and from the Caribbean I have been in, we were first across the finish line in the BVIs in one case and second (to a Gunboat 60) in another trip. I have had crew tell me they have never sailed that fast. Most boats in that size range cannot keep up.
So, not to disrupt the analysis, ANY Amel would be the best you can do IMHO.
Jamie
Phantom, A54#44


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

I use a piece of pvc pipe to seat the rings (I now have 5 rings).

It is the same diameter piece of pipe I use to seat the lip seals on the “C” drive. I use a small sledgehammer and lubricant around the edges to seat them. I have had no problem installing all of them. After a while I get a little seepage and I just use my wrench to tighten the nut and all is well again.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Alan Leslie
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:10 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

 

Hi Bob,
Last time I did it....8 years ago ??  I used 5/16" which is pretty close to 8mm.
I remember it was quite difficult to compress the three rings enough to get the nut to start.
I eventually took out the topmost ring and screwed the nut down on the first two, took out the nut and then put the last one in.
I think that would be near impossible if the packing was 10mm   
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Mast rebuilds

Paul Harries
 

Saw the video below on a HS owner essentially rebuilding his mast! Is this kind of work ever required on an Amel? How many of you have had to unstep masts for work? I am aware of problem at base of 54s but otherwise do spreaders need re attached, mast head tackle replacement etc?

https://youtu.be/46y7Obmzz4Q
--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: How much gear oil is needed for the 'C' Drive

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

Hi Ian,

That worked for me today.

Thanks

Eric

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 1:08 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] How much gear oil is needed for the 'C' Drive

 

Eric , 

 

9 litres does it for us . 

Ian



On 20 Oct 2021, at 03:35, Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris@...> wrote:

Hi Eric,
The original plaque says 8 Liters of 15W-40 oil. Oliver informed us some years ago that 80-90 would be better, but Amel figured it would be easier to have to carry only one type of oil for both engine and "C" drive. I think most of us switched to 80-90.
Craig
--
SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


The cockpit enclosure vs hurricane Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

It seems wild but the entire cockpit enclosure (we call it the doghouse)  held up for about 20 hours. Then the zippers started opening.  We sewed the zippers closed with sail thread and rode out the rest of the hurricane.

 

After that experience I had our sailmaker sew 4 loops made of webbing on the side curtains and the back “window”.

If we ever encounter these conditions again, we can tie the sides and back together.  

 

If you have ever had to remove the bimini by sliding the supports through the material, you will confirm it is a project.

Our bimini now has zipper pockets at each support. The bimini comes off in minutes. As a word of caution, make sure you lubricate the zippers with zipper lube.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Brent Cameron via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 7:54 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

 

I’m curious if anyone has had huge breaking waves across the stern of an Amel that would be high enough to get at the panels on an arch. I’ve been out in some (for me at least) boisterous conditions in the North Atlantic but nothing that even remotely looked like it would come aboard despite following seas higher than the arch and the boat surfing down the steep waves under minimal sails.   I’ve seen the bow and the cockpit take breaking waves a few times but never the stern.  That said I’m a complete Newb so I certainly don’t look at my extremely limited experience as indicative.  

It seems to me that you’d have to have massive breaking waves over the stern to do real damage assuming that the arch design can handle the wind loads (the forces do go up with the square of the wind velocity though so the difference between 45 knots which I’ve seen and 90 knots Is 400%  more force).  I wouldn’t trivialize the forces involved as we know of at least one Amel that looks to have been lost in part because their “arch” setup came apart in the very high winds and the panel(s) became vertical (which weather cocked the boat so it became unmanageable in severe  conditions - there were other contributing issues but as I’ve learned from my flying days, these things quickly add up and can overwhelm the crew and result in tragedy). 

The other scenario where it comes to mind that the boat could take breaking waves would be when using a Jordan Series Drogue.  I know that Eric has had good experience with using these in survival conditions  (I also know that Kimberlite doesn’t have an arch!) but don’t know if it results in the stern getting submerged by breaking waves or not so I guess we should factor that scenario in as well. 

Wouldn’t the enclosed cockpit also be an issue in those conditions? I seem to remember Eric saying that he had his full enclosure up when Kimberlite was swamped.   I know how wonderful it is to be “inside” in boisterous conditions so would be very reluctant to take it down as long as I could safely be at the helm. 

Danny, I know you have your solar panels mounted on the lifeline rails. Wouldn’t they also take as much or even more of a load too (assuming that you don’t take them down before hand of course)?  I guess they have quite a bit less surface area than panels on an arch but they are lower so I’d think more likely to get dunked. I’d be interested in knowing if your panels have ever been an issue as I know that you have faced some very significant conditions. Do you leave them in perpendicular position as long as they are up?  I certainly like the look of the boat without an arch better. 

I also see a lot of Amel’s out there with Paddleboards, wind surfers, engines, fuel and scuba tanks (and life rafts) mounted on the rails. Those would seem to me to be even more risky as they are lower down and perpendicular to the forces involved (surface area is directly proportional to the forces - double the surface area and double the forces).  An arch has the panels mostly parallel to the potential forces so the horizontally mounted solar panels would have MUCH less drag than say a paddle board).  

Force is 1/2 times Density of the fluid (air can be considered to be such) times Surface Area times Co-efficient of Drag times Velocity squared.  You can adjust the surface area by adjusting the orientation of the object but everything else is more or less constant except of course for the wind velocity so it  behoves us to keep this in mind as we add stuff to the outside of our boats. (The Cd is different for a paddle board on edge versus on the perpendicular but for a solar panel, it would be considered as 1 in either case as they aren’t really aerodynamic in any specific orientation). 

Another factor to consider is the weight out at the ends of the boat (this isn’t just an arch issue). Adding weight whether on decks or in the lockers will change the design handling of the boat.  

Perhaps a good compromise would be to have an easy way to quickly disconnect the panels and put them below in severe conditions.  That would obviously entail foreknowledge of upcoming conditions as you wouldn’t be able to remove them in much more than mild breezes but I suspect that lifeline mounted panels would face the same problem (although to be fair, I’d much rather be standing on deck than climbing an arch at sea!). I’m sure a tilting/sliding rail mounted system could be devised so that the panels could be easily disconnected at deck level as well with a bit of forethought. 

I’m not second guessing ANYONE  about their decisions here - sailboats are a compromise by their very nature but I’m genuinely curious about the pros and cons so that I can make my own risk/reward evaluation when the time comes. I know that most of us would never plan to be out there in those sorts of conditions but as Forest Gump says “$h.t happens!”   I like Amel’s new hardtops with solar panels.  


Brent

On Oct 21, 2021, 5:22 AM -0400, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>, wrote:

Your setup sounds perfect for your intended use! I agree with your prioritization, too.

And if you ever decide to go lithium, all you really need to do is buy Victron smart lithium batteries and add a ve.bus BMS. Can you run the washing machine? I can't remember who, but another Amel could not run their washing machine with a 3kw inverter, which was surprising.

We went through a lot of brain damage with our dinghy too. We have the CL310 with a 20hp 4 stroke Suzuki. The dinghy will fit, albeit not perfectly, on the davits. A 340 would be better for the davits but we always keep the dinghy on the aft deck on passage and sized it to fit perfectly on the deck so we're happy we got the 310. Some will optimize for davit use and in that case, they should get a 340. 

By the way, definitely change your davit fall (aka lifting lines) to dyneema if you haven't already. Very easy to do and makes them so much nicer to use. Don't pay Simpson 4000gbp or whatever they want for the "conversion kit" - you can do it yourself for much cheaper.

Regarding Danny's concerns about arches and weather, I've attached a photo of our arch shortly after we installed it and here are a few situations we've found ourselves in since then:

- 45 knots in the Gulf of Lyon with short and steep breaking waves
- Mid November passage from Virginia, though the Gulf Stream, to the Caribbean, with up to 60 knot winds
- A very unpleasant 2800nm upwind/up current passage from Hawaii to French Polynesia. A fellow Amel owner felt the passage tough enough that he had his rigging inspected afterwards. A non-Amel lost their mast and another boat had their keel come loose. 

I haven't been in hurricane force winds, but given what we've experienced so far and given my risk tolerance, the benefits are definitely worth it. Of course, by saying that, we're going to have it ripped off the next time we go on passage!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


All that stuff hanging off the stern-- Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

I have waited years to voice my opinion.

I have seen many Amels with fabulous solar panel arrays.

I really admire them.

However, in my experience they pose a HAZARD to the boat.

 

I think it was 2010 and we were in a hurricane for 36 hours in 60-foot seas in 100 knots of wind.

Without fail the boat would be totally submerged by breaking waves to the point that we would have to hold our breath till the water subsided . The first thing I recall seeing were just the masts sticking out of the water with no boat visible. Then the rest of the rest of Kimberlite would pop up.  I thought that was cool. This happened 15-20 times during this ordeal.

 

It takes about 20 seconds for the boat to pop up.

 

I have always envisioned having an arch causing 4 large holes in the stern deck where the solar panels and the arch were torn out of the hull.

Just My opinion.

 

Here is the article if you are interested.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

https://www.oceannavigator.com/prepare-for-survival-conditions/

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of David Crisp
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 12:20 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Gel batteries, solar panels and inverter - an experience

 

A lot of really helpful information has been written and shared about converting to lithium batteries and the benefits thereof (thank you all). Compared to my experience 20 years ago, when I lived aboard my SM for 3 years, lithium batteries with a large inverter and solar panels sounds like paradise.  In 2019 I was on the verge of going this route but delays caused by the Covid pandemic caused me to follow a compromise route and to drop the lithium battery element. 

 

My route has been to replace the old Dolphin 100A charger with a Victron 24V/3000/70A Multiplus inverter/charger along with 990W of solar panels (three LG Neon2Black (LG330N1K-V5)) managed by a Victron Smart Solar MPPT 100/50. A Victron VE Smart Bus provides voltage and temperature data to the MPPT. I also replaced the old battery monitor with a Victron BMV-712.  The solar panels are mounted above some Simpson electric davits I had installed at the same time.  This year the batteries that came with Wilna Grace gave up the ghost and I replaced them with Victron Gel 110AH instead of going over to Lithium.

 

My cruising plans are to remain in and explore the Mediterranean, spending ~6+months aboard each year. Consequently my demands, and the cost vs. benefit analysis, are perhaps not those of a live aboard round-the-world cruiser. 

After my first season aboard with the new setup I am very very happy. Thanks to the inverter I have good 220V power available on demand, from boiling a kettle (v important to the British) to running the microwave or coffee machine plus my partner can blow-dry/straighten her hair (unfortunately I lost the need to do that some years ago).  Aboard Wilna Grace we run two fridges and a freezer.  On a typical day the batteries are at 90% first thing in the morning and in absorption mode by early afternoon.  The only reason we run the generator is to cook (we have an electric stove (infra-red not induction) but on the plus side running the generator provides hot water.  

 

I’m hopeful that with such shallow cycling the Gel batteries should last 6+ years, not as good a Lithium but not bad.  I’ve only had one season’s experience with this setup, but at the moment the only reason I would change to lithium would be to run an induction stove or to run an air conditioner.  I’m not ruling out lithium, there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind about the benefits; should my cruising plans/needs change I will install lithium in the blink of an eye.

 

For someone on a limited budget and with my type of cruising profile I would prioritise the key elements in the following order: (1) large solar array.  (2) large inverter.  (3) lithium batteries.

 

Attached are some photos of the installation on Wilna Grace and drawings of the solar panel array. From this installation I have had two learnings: -

  1. Make sure you buy a long enough RIB otherwise the spacing of the davits is too long.  I have a Highfield C290 with a Honda 15HP outboard and wish I had bought a longer dinghy.
  2. My panels are completely horizontal so the rain pools on them (assuming we are not rolling at anchor).  In future I would having them slope backwards by ~5 degrees towards the stern. The rain will run off and maybe also wash off dust!


Final share:

We had two other mini-projects this year which have also delivered big benefits. 
(a) Replaced all the halogen bulbs aboard WG with LED (wow does that save power!).
(b) Installed a Caframo Sirocco 2 fan above the aft berth – it provides wonderful relief on a hot August night in Greece, removes the need to run a/c. This fan consumes very little power and is much quieter than other fans I have used.

 

 

Hope it is helpful.

 

David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Re: European Fire Extinguishers

Michael Winand
 

We installed the fireboy system, it is safe for the engine, as if it were to go off it won't destroy the interior of the engine,  the system has a auto shut down of the blowers and the engine. 
It has override in case you need to start the engine again. 
Michael Nebo sm251 

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021, 5:08 am Bill Kinney, <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:
Richard,

Before discharging the CO2, it is critical that you shut down the engine, generator, and blowers.  In a perfect world, this would be done automatically as part of the discharge process.  If the engines and blowers are running, they will very quickly remove the CO2.  With the fire location still hot, even if it was initially put out,  it will likely re-ignite right away.  This is just as important for boats with the older halon systems.

If you DO extinguish a fire with a CO2 or halon discharge, it is important NOT to open the engine room hatch for 20 or 30 minutes to allow things to cool off before reintroducing oxygen.  And before going down inside, be sure to run the ventilating blowers to be sure there is enough oxygen to breath.

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

4441 - 4460 of 65032