Date   

Re: Hybrid Lead/Lithium

James Alton
 

I am using the Victron Super Pak Lithium batteries with the internal BMS along with a high quality German made Sonnenschien gel battery on my Amel.  I like the internal BMS in each individual battery concept better than the external because I feel it is a safer way to go.  The external BMS systems are very appealing and allow a lot more monitoring but it seems to me that there are still possible scenarios that could be dangerous that the  internal BMS option would protect against.  One scenario that comes to mind would be the batteries being charged by a temporary charging source that was not connected so that the external BMS could talk to it.  In such a scenario,  the internal BMS should disconnect the battery if any charging source exceeds a preset voltage.  Overcharging Lithium cells the main thing that you need to worry about with Lithium.  The gel battery is in parallel with the Lithiums and could handle house loads if for instance lightning destroyed the BMS's in the Lithiums or if the Lithiums we're somehow overcharged and disconnected. The gel is also a nice filter for the Lithiums and doesn't care about alternator electrical noise etc.   I personally would be leery of connecting Lithium with a common low quality lead acid battery.  What happens if you get a short in your lead acid battery and it is connected to a big bank of Lithiums?   I installed the high quality Sonnenschien batteries in boats for decades and have never had one fail in a bad way regardless of the abuse. One battery that is a similar vintage had a 1/4" hope drilled right through the case by the customer and it was caulked over, nothing came out.  The life expectancy is so long that I would often build these maintenance free batteries into the cabinetry of the boat.  These gels have virtually no self discharge and can be left without charging for up to two years so if they are healthy they will not pull down the Lithiums. They do have lower energy density than other lead acid batteries which is one downside and the cost is high.  Because the Lithiums hold about 13.2 volts during discharge the Gel doesn't really do much work unless the bow thruster is used or the Lithiums we're to ever be depleted or fail.  I look at the batteries on my boat as a critical system so I like having the gel.battery backup. One could lose their boat if power failed at the wrong time after all.  By the way, the Sonnenschien gel that is installed on my boat was purchased from a customer who wanted his 8 hear old Sonnenechien batteries changed ahead of a circumnavigation. (which he completed.)  That battery is now well over 20 years old and still seems healthy though given the age I want to replace it with a new battery.  So those are my thoughts and current solution. This is of course an evolving technology.   James Alton SV Sueno

On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 5:40 AM, Dean Gillies
<stella@...> wrote:

Nick,
On the subject of safety ... 

A couple of years ago when I started thinking about a hybrid solution, I frequently heard the risk statement "you can't mix chemistries" because apparently bad things will happen. (I have a cartoon picture in my mind of a mad professor dropping lumps Lithium into sulphuric acid in a beaker producing lots of coloured smoke lol.)

I have never seen any explanation of what that actually means.  What exactly is the worst bad thing that happens when you 'mix chemistries"?  I would love to know.

There is an electrical interaction between the battery types, and it's important to understand how that can play out in worst-case scenarios. What else?

My safety assessment was focussed on risks which are peculiar to lithium and an interconnected hybrid architecture. There are plenty of risks with lead batteries which are also extant in lithium batteries. These are important, but are not reasons to discount LFP. 

Dean
SV STELLA
A54-154

 

 


Re: Forever Young / Standing rigging

rossirossix4
 
Edited

We used Emik Marin, the Amel service center which is located in Göcek .  I think the yacht-in-transit tax exemption process in Turkey is a bit complicated or involves using someone who knows the tax officials.  Like many things with Emik (and indeed in Turkey) we haggled for quite a while over the cost.  Initially the cost was going to be high but came down.  I suspect that Emik was able to combine the ACMO rigging with some other tax free imports to get the process costs down.  They do these on a regular basis so they know the ins and outs--I recall that when their van arrived it had a tax seal on the door that was opened by an official and as I noted they required a boat stamp and observation of the boat itself along with some animated discussion in Turkish with Emik staff.  Having Çay with the tax officials was part of the process of course...gotta love Turkey!.  The bottom line was that our cost for a complete ACMO kit installed by the experts at M2 was €9,000 (we only negotiated on our final cost including agent fees, ACMO costs and shipping costs, and probably tax agent fees.  I recall that we used a "broken record" technique claiming that we could only pay the 9K....eventually it became a reality.  BTW topping lifts were the only items not included in the ACMO kit and we....you guessed it.....haggled with M2 and traded them some other rigging items and they made them up from scratch.  

We only needed a boat stamp but let me repeat this post....a "Yacht-In-Transit" stamp has been helpful in other locations (you can get self-inking customized, official looking, yacht-in-transit stamps for about $10 on eBay..... https://photos.app.goo.gl/f4Le1aq4eyMPFQyZ9

Bob      KAIMI SM429


Re: Hybrid Lead/Lithium

Dean Gillies
 

Nick,
On the subject of safety ... 

A couple of years ago when I started thinking about a hybrid solution, I frequently heard the risk statement "you can't mix chemistries" because apparently bad things will happen. (I have a cartoon picture in my mind of a mad professor dropping lumps Lithium into sulphuric acid in a beaker producing lots of coloured smoke lol.)

I have never seen any explanation of what that actually means.  What exactly is the worst bad thing that happens when you 'mix chemistries"?  I would love to know.

There is an electrical interaction between the battery types, and it's important to understand how that can play out in worst-case scenarios. What else?

My safety assessment was focussed on risks which are peculiar to lithium and an interconnected hybrid architecture. There are plenty of risks with lead batteries which are also extant in lithium batteries. These are important, but are not reasons to discount LFP. 

Dean
SV STELLA
A54-154

 

 


Re: Hybrid Lead/Lithium

Dean Gillies
 

Nick,
I understand your desire to extract best value from your existing lead batteries, but I would strongly recommend you think about big lithium and small lead content as being the optimum longer term solution.  I'm sure you will agree when you become accustomed to the operational profile of lithium.
I would suggest that you give careful thought to the future migration path from big lead/small lithium to small lead/big lithium.   Make it easy in your system to add lithium when your lead batteries wane in a few years. 

cheers, Dean
SV Stella
A54-154


Re: Something for Electrical Engineers, Experts, and Wannabes like me

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

Clive,

I used to build waveguide, slotted line , and rotary joints for different agencies. If you send a few hundred megawatt pulse down a rotary joint and there is .00001 ohms insertion loss. They will return a ball of aluminum to you.

It was interesting making stuff for JPL and the DEW line.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Clive Chapman
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 4:58 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Something for Electrical Engineers, Experts, and Wannabes like me

 

I haven’t had the chance to watch the video yet, but as an electronics engineer as training, if you want to blow your birdy brains try understanding the propagation of RF along a coax cable…then try how an aerial works…and for Einstein level, try RF down a waveguide as used on most radars. Nearly forty years on I’m still struggling with the concept that energy would rather travel down the air in the middle of a bit of waveguide than the solid bit of conductor that surrounds it!

 

Regards

Clive


Re: Climma Compact 12 not cooling very well - capacitors?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Thanks, I'll take a look and report back. The unit is only about 3 years old so I really hope it's not due for a refrigerant recharge already!!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Something for Electrical Engineers, Experts, and Wannabes like me

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

If you really want to be confused, explain how microwave signals move down waveguide (like in your radar) and why are the dimensions of the waveguide critical for different frequencies . Like s band k band etc.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Alex BAIZEAU
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 2:42 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Group Moderators <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Something for Electrical Engineers, Experts, and Wannabes like me

 

Thanks Bill, This video blew my mind and actually raised more questions than it answered :D 


If I understand correctly Electrical energy is not like a fluid that flows through a pipe but carried by electromagnetic waves that radiates from the battery to the lightbulb in all directions.


But then, I believe, most of the power has to flow along the wires otherwise electromagnetic waves would cause all kinds of interferences in all directions radiating from all power sources.

So in that video, some energy flows in a straight line between the battery in the light bulb at the speed of light, but how much? Is it negligible? enough to turn on the light? If so, isn't this just an antenna effect? 

Thanks for sharing.

 

On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 5:11 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

I really enjoyed this video. It explains how electricity works. Maybe you will enjoy it also. It was given to me by my grandson, an engineering student and junior at Texas A&M.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY

 

Bill


Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.


Re: Climma Compact 12 not cooling very well - capacitors?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Thanks Bill. I'll take a look at the evaporator. The filter seems fine. But if the evaporator/filter is clogged, wouldn't it be the same effect as having lower fan speed and therefore we'd be getting low flow, but very cold air?

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Hybrid Lead/Lithium

Scott SV Tengah
 

Nick,

I think if you were struck by lightning to the extent that the BMS is killed, the chargers would probably be gone, too. I agree that a weak point, at least in my Victron system, is that a BMS failure would render the Victron chargers useless. To solve this, I bought a backup BMS, which was only $120 USD. 

That said, if both my primary and backup BMS die, I could still use the Mastervolt alternator to charge my batteries, just without the cell level over voltage protection. Not a great situation, but as long as you don't charge above say 85% SOC, the likelihood that you'll get a cell over voltage is quite low. If I want to go higher than 85% bank SOC, I can just monitor the individual cells via bluetooth. This is really the "I am in the middle of nowhere and need to charge my batteries" situation that we must think about when we're circumnavigating.

One disadvantage of a lead-heavy hybrid system is that you lose three of the big advantages of lithium: (1) high charge acceptance and charging efficiency (2) stable voltage under heavy load (3) the ability to use all those AH between 10-100% SOC. Do not underestimate the charge acceptance and efficiency gains as it is like getting a 20-35% larger solar array on your boat.

Personally, after over 3 years on this Victron system, I think it works quite well. The BMS tells the charging sources (solar, 230v charger, alternator) to stop charging VS. some other systems which appear to disconnect the batteries from the charging sources, leaving the charging source without a place to send that current and putting that source at risk of damage.

Another thing to think about is the insurance "problem". A non-standard system may raise the eyebrows of insurers more than an integrated system from one manufacturer. I put "problem" in quotes because clearly any insurance companies that have an issue with lithium will clearly need to figure it out and allow it as many of the A50s and I believe all of the A60s have it as standard equipment. 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


A Possible solution Understanding breakers

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

Pat,

I ran across an interesting issue that might be of help to you.

Open the AC panel. You will note that there is a bus bar connecting the breakers. It is held on by just the friction of the contacts of the bus bar. Look at the connections and see if they seemed to have ben burnt or heated.  I had a similar problem with my watermaker. Quick fix.

 

It took me a long time to find that problem

Remove the bus bar clean up the contact areas and tighten up the connectors with a pair of pliers.

 

I hope this works, as the only thing that your two devices have in common is the bus bar.

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Mark McGovern
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2021 2:23 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Understanding breakers

 

Pat,

I will try to respond directly to your post with your parts in BOLD:

I have posted that I have a couple of breakers that pop. The charger is what most concerns me,it ran for ten minutes this morning then popped off. I switched it over to the heater breaker also 25A and it popped after a few minutes,but now is fine for the last 20 minutes. Both breakers are 20 years old and could be weak. If I had a problem with the charger , would it not be constant and pop the breakers immediately.? 

If you had a short in the circuit supplying power to the charger it would trip the breaker almost immediately.  However, if the Diruptor 25 amp circuit breaker is a thermal breaker (and I believe that they are) and the amount of current through the breaker was only a small amount over the rating (say 30 amps) than it would take time for the heat to build up in the bimetallic strip inside the breaker and cause it to trip.  Other and more likely things besides higher than rated current flow can cause overheating and delayed tripping of a thermal breaker, mainly corrosion or a loose connection in the circuit

What does the breaker exactly do? 

As Brett's post explained, the breaker is designed to protect the wires in the circuit in the event that on overcurrent situation arises.  It essentially prevents electrical fires from starting.  A good explanation of typical circuit breakers can be found here:  https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/circuit-breaker.htm

It is only 25A and the charger is putting out 75A so the current to the battery does not flow thru it.

Correct.  The 25 Amp breaker is in the circuit that is providing 220 volts of AC power to the Charger.  It is NOT in the circuit that goes FROM the Charger TO the batteries.

Does it close a relay between the genset and the charger? 

No.  It is directly wired to the battery charger.  There is nothing in between it and the battery charger except for wires.  

The only "connection" to the Genset happens BEFORE the main AC power panel.  The main AC power Panel is powered by EITHER the Genset OR Shore Power.  The flow of 220 volt AC power goes something like this:  Genset OR Shore Power -->  40 AMP RCD Breaker  -->  Main AC Power Panel  --> 25 Amp Circuit Breaker for 100 Amp Battery Charger  -->  100 Amp Battery Charger

But why would that be 25A?

The 25 Amp breaker on the AC Panel is operating at a nominal 220 volts.  The circuit provides 220 volts of AC power to the Charger.  The circuit breaker allows UP TO 25 Amps to flow through the circuit.  It might be easier to think of Power in Watts especially when dealing with both AC and DC circuits.  Watts = Volts x Amps.  So the AC circuit powering the battery charger can handle 220 Volts x 25 Amps = 5500 Watts.
 
The Battery Charger converts the 220 volts AC to nominal 24 volts DC.  It outputs a nominal 24 volts UP TO 100 Amps.  So the maximum wattage is 24 Volts x 100 Amps = 2400 Watts.  This is significantly lower than the maximum of 5500 watts of power supplied which makes sense. 

Note that the circuit providing 24v power to the batteries is a completely different circuit than the AC circuit that provide power to the Battery Charger.

I am thinking that I could get another 25A 220v breaker from a hardware store and substitute it and if it doesn’t pop ,then it confirms I have a bad breaker. I will contact Maude,but we want to leave Fla. for Bahamas before we would get it, if she even has one. The charger has now ran for 45 minutes no problem. Please explain the function of the breaker, I am uncertain about what it is powering..

The fact that two different breakers trip in a similar manner makes it unlikely that you have a faulty circuit breaker.  This is not 100% certain given that both breakers are 20 years old, but the chances of both breakers failing in the same manner at the same time is pretty small.  Given that it took some time for the breaker to open rather than tripping almost immediately, means it is NOT a massive overcurrent like a short circuit.  The most likely cause of a breaker tripping like this in a marine environment is either corrosion on the wire terminals or a loose connection at one or more of the terminals.  Corrosion or a loose connection will both cause heat to build up in the connection and eventually in the thermal circuit breaker itself causing it to trip.

You may have inadvertently fixed the original cause of the problem when you swapped out the breaker either by fixing the loose connection or mechanically removing some corrosion on the wires.  However, I would also take a look at the connections of the 220v wire inside the battery charger just to be sure.

I hope that this helps.  "Real life" electrical engineers or electricians here feel free to correct any mistakes in my understanding or explanation.


Hybrid Lead/Lithium

Nick Newington
 

Fellow Amel owners,

Since my post on the possibility of adding Lithium to a lead bank I have been following others with similar thoughts, specifically S/V Temptress and his you tube videos….I think we are onto something…something superior to just Lithium…I do not like the idea of being completely dependent on an electronic BMS…think lightening strike…think electronics and out of the way places….it looks to me like a hybrid system is the way to go….some have gone for Lithium but with a small amount of lead. If the Lithium BMS decides to shut down, the alternator will still have lead to charge into and thus not fry….in my opinion this is vastly superior to just lithium….others have gone for mostly lead with a small amount of lithium….in terms of chemistry it does not matter. It's the physics that count. What I mean is the batteries are only linked by cable. So what if the chemistry differs. 

Personally I am thinking that I would like to go 20% lithium and 80% lead for starters…..still thinking about it… no hurry. There are others doing this with great results….but if the lithium BMS were to fail then I would be where I am now, if the lead were to gradually die as they do, then the lithium would prop it up until they could be replaced…

The only question is how safe is it? As I say others are experimenting…so far so good..

NIck in the UK….Omicron going nuts but hopeful that this is the beginning of the end, and not the end of the beginning.

S/V Amelia AML54-019 ashore in Leros


Re: SM Batteries

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Kent,
Correcting the problem ... the key things are:
1. Use the correct Abs voltage.
2. Use a low tail cutoff current.

it was difficult to find clear charge information from Crown. The attached Crown document indicates that the absorption voltage should be 29.0V. To my mind this still seems low, but it is 0.5V larger than you have been using in the past so will definitely help. 

You should use a tail current (INTO THE BATTERY) of 0.5A or less.  In this regard, it's important that your charging systems correctly recognise the current flowing into the battery only.
You need to ensure that the switch to float happens at the correct time.
You can check this by forcing the voltage back to 29V and manually checking the current into the batteries. It should fall below the tail current very quickly if the batteries are fully charged.
If you find that the batteries continue to take more charge, then reduce the tail current setting. Ideally, you want the tail current setting to be as low as possible but still reliably switch to float when batteries are full.
In the past I often used my generator for a short time in the morning to boost my lead batteries while they will accept a large charge, before letting solar take over for the slow end of the charge cycle.
maybe you can share your MPPT settings?

Equalisation:
I've always thought of it as a double-edged sword.  It's intended to remove sulphate deposits from plates and mix up the acid. However this process also destroys your battery a little each time. I also don't like the possibility to create shorts with all the material that's removed from the plates. It has to go somewhere, but where does it end up ??  
I personally don't like it, and have used Gel and AGM's for so long that I have no practical experience so I don't know the answer to your question! Maybe others with experience of employing it can answer that.
How much should you equalise, how often etc??

cheers,
Dean
SY STELLA
A54-154

 

 


Re: Dinghy Sizing

 

Victor,

I understand.
Bill



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 1:29 PM VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...> wrote:
Hello Bill and the rest of the group.
My apologies for the delay in my response. Every time that I post something or formulate a question to this group, the responses are quick and enriching. In this regard, I really appreciate your comments because they are wise and well informed. Again, thank you for the great support. 
I think that it would be good to distinguish two different things related with the dinghies and the bubbles that may show when the hull comes painted:
1.- The failure of the paint. Your clarifications are very enlightening, although it does not justify that big, world renowned brands display captivating explanations on their webs about the wonders of their products, whereas weeks after the purchase, some of the features fail. If they know about such weaknesses in their products they shouldn't advertise them as they do; if they don't know them, they are not as reliable as they claim to be. 
2.- The after sales services of the provider. This is the other deeply disappointing side of the reaction of the manufacturers, but since my experience is limited to just one of them (what I know of other brands comes from friends that have told me about), I rather refrain from any further comment on this to stay in compliance with the rules of the group.
Thanks.
Best.
Victor 
Alendoy SM314 


Re: Forever Young / Standing rigging

Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
 

Hi Bob,

When you had the rigging shipped to Turkey, did you have it sent to an agent or did you provide ACMO with a Marina address to send it to.

Kind regards
Ross and Donna
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021, 11:00 PM, rossirossix4 <rossidesigngroup@...> wrote:

Just left a note on the stuck spline issue of the bowthrusters regrding LanoCote.  Let me endorse LanoCote® for rigging use as well.  When we were in Göcek, Turkey we had ACMO shipped in from France tax free from EU and Turkish taxes--BTW a couple of interesting things:  the tax guy there required that we use our boat stamp (probably good evidence that it actually went to a boat) AND walked out to our docked boat to see where the rigging would go and asked why it needed to be replaced!

Anyway, when M2 Rigging there (very experienced with Amels) rigged it with the new ACMO I requested that they apply LanoCote® to the threads of all turnbuckles.  3 years later I had the rigging measured and retensioned by Caraibe Marine in Martinique immediately after our Atlantic crossing.  They only needed to make 2 or 3 adjustments to the rigging and those were one half turn only.  We consider Caraibe Marine in Le Marin to be very expert in Amel rigging, so this finding--IMHO--was a very good endorsement of both ACMO and M2.  The Caraibe guys mentioned that the adjustments were easy.

Related--I have been told that in a dismasting, rigging usually only needs to be cut or hacksawed if the turnbuckles are seized.  I'd like to believe that this is less likely if LanoCote or a similar product is initially used.

Bob  KAIMI SM429

--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey


Re: Forever Young / Standing rigging

rossirossix4
 

Just left a note on the stuck spline issue of the bowthrusters regrding LanoCote.  Let me endorse LanoCote® for rigging use as well.  When we were in Göcek, Turkey we had ACMO shipped in from France tax free from EU and Turkish taxes--BTW a couple of interesting things:  the tax guy there required that we use our boat stamp (probably good evidence that it actually went to a boat) AND walked out to our docked boat to see where the rigging would go and asked why it needed to be replaced!

Anyway, when M2 Rigging there (very experienced with Amels) rigged it with the new ACMO I requested that they apply LanoCote® to the threads of all turnbuckles.  3 years later I had the rigging measured and retensioned by Caraibe Marine in Martinique immediately after our Atlantic crossing.  They only needed to make 2 or 3 adjustments to the rigging and those were one half turn only.  We consider Caraibe Marine in Le Marin to be very expert in Amel rigging, so this finding--IMHO--was a very good endorsement of both ACMO and M2.  The Caraibe guys mentioned that the adjustments were easy.

Related--I have been told that in a dismasting, rigging usually only needs to be cut or hacksawed if the turnbuckles are seized.  I'd like to believe that this is less likely if LanoCote or a similar product is initially used.

Bob  KAIMI SM429


Re: Bowthruster - damaged hex-nut [count on drilling out that bolt and re-tapping the hole + TORX]

rossirossix4
 

LanoCote® (now owned by Forespar) is also excellent for this.  Because there is also an ongoing discussion regarding rigging I will leave a similar note in that thread.

Bob    KAIMI  SM429 


Re: Frigiboat spare condenser fans

Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...>
 

Sorry,

I thought he was speaking of the Climma units.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 10:46 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Frigiboat spare condenser fans

 

It is a 12 volt fan. The fan output from the Danfoss compressor controller is 12v. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 19:52 Eric Freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Isn’t the fan a 220 volt fan?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Mark McGovern
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 7:07 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Frigiboat spare condenser fans

 

Kevin,

Michael from Ripple posted about where he got some quieter fans in this post here:

https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/60862

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Annapolis, MD USA


Re: Dinghy Sizing

VICTOR MOLERO
 

Hello Bill and the rest of the group.
My apologies for the delay in my response. Every time that I post something or formulate a question to this group, the responses are quick and enriching. In this regard, I really appreciate your comments because they are wise and well informed. Again, thank you for the great support. 
I think that it would be good to distinguish two different things related with the dinghies and the bubbles that may show when the hull comes painted:
1.- The failure of the paint. Your clarifications are very enlightening, although it does not justify that big, world renowned brands display captivating explanations on their webs about the wonders of their products, whereas weeks after the purchase, some of the features fail. If they know about such weaknesses in their products they shouldn't advertise them as they do; if they don't know them, they are not as reliable as they claim to be. 
2.- The after sales services of the provider. This is the other deeply disappointing side of the reaction of the manufacturers, but since my experience is limited to just one of them (what I know of other brands comes from friends that have told me about), I rather refrain from any further comment on this to stay in compliance with the rules of the group.
Thanks.
Best.
Victor 
Alendoy SM314 


Re: Dinghy Sizing

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all, Funny, I am mystified by the problems you have with the painted/powder coated  aluminum hull dinghies. As my light weight dinghy I use for local cruising and going back and forth to the mooring I have a NZ made  Southern Pacific. 3.1 aluminum hulled Rib. 20 years old and apart from scratches the coating is fine. There are thousands of these around NZ of various sizes and styles and I have not seen any with a coating problem. For my cruising dinghy we have a fiberglass hull caribe, Great, big pontoons dry ride but very heavy.
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
Mangonui NZ

On 14/12/2021 07:30 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


Victor,

As most Amel owners know, painting aluminum is at best still a risky issue. Many A55 owners know this better than previous Amels. I am not sure why there seem to be more aluminum coating failures lately, but I suspect it has to do with certain prep chemicals being outlawed. 

We had an AB aluminum dinghy for 11 years. When it was 10 years old there was less painted area than bare aluminum. I thought Highfield and sister company 3D offered dinghies that were electrostatic-spray powder-coated. I would assume that this painting method would be better but it might make the process even more difficult and thus risky to the coating losing adhesion to the surface.

Whatever the issue is with yours, why don't you give the details, but focus on the aluminum coating issues rather than the manufacturer because I believe that probably any manufacturer and possibly any Amel owner will experience this issue. 

You experienced coating failure with Highfield and I did with AB Navico. Today AB ships the aluminum dinghy uncoated. You can special order power coating. Their website states, "Although the tender is uncoated for minimal maintenance, you can choose to add a Chrome-free Pretreatment and Powder Coating."  Another brand that I like is Caribe. They had the same coating flaking problem that you and I experienced. They solved it by no longer offering aluminum hulls.

I believe that there is a risk of coating failure with any aluminum dinghy. I think you are lucky if you do not experience it.



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 11:13 AM VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...> wrote:
Hello Richie.
I bought a Highfield 290 dinghy last July. In September I already had bubbles in the paint of the hull. If you (or anyone) are interested in the response of Highfield when I sent the pictures and asked for a solution (that has not arrived yet), please let me know and I will describe it to you in a private conversation, since I know that this group does not allow for negative observations about brands or providers. 
Victor 
SM314 Alendoy




Re: Suction valve on the sea chest and the vetus muffler

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Bill, I have heard the alarm once when I left the sea cock off on motor start up. 
Danny

On 13/12/2021 11:28 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


Danny,
  1. Turn off the sea chest valve.
  2. Operate anything like a saltwater electric toilet, or AC
  3. The alarm should sound within 5-10 seconds.
If the alarm doesn't sound, remove the switch, pipe, and hose and check for clogs. Clean everything and reinstall. Through trial and error adjust the sensitivity.



Maybe you missed what I posted earlier:
image.png



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

View My Training Calendar

On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 1:35 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:
Hi Kevin, I would be interested as to how you tested the vacuum sensor
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl 
On 12/12/2021 04:47 Kevin Schmit <kevschmit64@...> wrote:


Eric,

just curious if you ever solved this Sea Chest vacuum sensor problem?  Mine isn’t working and I was going to email Maude for a price on a new sensor.  Did you ever get it to work properly or did you end up installing a totally different sensor and system?  I was hoping to avoid spending $ on a new sensor if it’s problematic to begin with….

any advice is appreciated.
--
Kevin & Kristen Schmit
KIANA
SM #362



5381 - 5400 of 66608