Date   

Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

Scott SV Tengah
 

Porter,

 

You have the GP-150 and he successfully reprogrammed it?

 

For the FA-50, I always had the hard switch. My understanding was that the software “silent mode” was not available on the FA-50, even prior to the update.

 

From: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of "Porter McRoberts via groups.io" <portermcroberts@...>
Reply-To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, January 10, 2022 at 8:15 PM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

 

We just had furuno Brisbane reprogram both the GPS and the AIS. Interesting note. No longer to silence the AIS using software, which was important to us on rare occasion.  The tech gave me the wiring diagram for the power wire to the GPS which allows a hard silencing: close the circuit between the purple and grey wires= AIS silent mode. 

 

 

 

 

Also date is correct after his reprogramming. 

 

 

Happy sailing, 

Porter McRoberts 

S/V IBIS A54-152

WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

Www.fouribis.net



On Jan 11, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Myfuruno gp 32 gps and my furino chart plotter have gone to May 2002 date. Position is OK on both as I have external aerials. ENL the NZ distributors for furuno say the date cannt be corrected and (what a surprise) recommend a replacement as the solution. Pity  abuse I like my old fashio I have a newer furuno VX 2 as my radar. Will see if I  an patch the date from that. It talks to the plotter and I can full or split screen  the radar to the plotter.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 11/01/2022 09:51 Scott SV Tengah <scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

 

 

I successfully updated my FA-50 AIS. Had to make a crossover ethernet cable since we don't have a hub onboard and the tiny shops on the remote South Pacific atolls are out of fresh vegetables and don't seem to carry crossover ethernet cables, either. ;)  A bit of splicing + turning off windows firewall and I was able to update our FA-50.

Do you have the GP-150? I cannot connect to it to update it. I have the serial output on Data4 enabled with a DB9 output and then connected to a DB9-USB converter. I have been using that for years to provide GPS data to my computer, but I can't get the Furuno update software to connect.

FYI - We know a SM with Garmin and they have been blissfully unaware that they may have been transmitting erroneous AIS position information since 2019. It is not a Furuno specific bug. It's easy to remain unaware that your reported position is missing or incorrect. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

Porter McRoberts
 

We just had furuno Brisbane reprogram both the GPS and the AIS. Interesting note. No longer to silence the AIS using software, which was important to us on rare occasion.  The tech gave me the wiring diagram for the power wire to the GPS which allows a hard silencing: close the circuit between the purple and grey wires= AIS silent mode. 




Also date is correct after his reprogramming. 


Happy sailing, 
Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Jan 11, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:


Myfuruno gp 32 gps and my furino chart plotter have gone to May 2002 date. Position is OK on both as I have external aerials. ENL the NZ distributors for furuno say the date cannt be corrected and (what a surprise) recommend a replacement as the solution. Pity  abuse I like my old fashio I have a newer furuno VX 2 as my radar. Will see if I  an patch the date from that. It talks to the plotter and I can full or split screen  the radar to the plotter.
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 11/01/2022 09:51 Scott SV Tengah <scott.nguyen@...> wrote:


I successfully updated my FA-50 AIS. Had to make a crossover ethernet cable since we don't have a hub onboard and the tiny shops on the remote South Pacific atolls are out of fresh vegetables and don't seem to carry crossover ethernet cables, either. ;)  A bit of splicing + turning off windows firewall and I was able to update our FA-50.

Do you have the GP-150? I cannot connect to it to update it. I have the serial output on Data4 enabled with a DB9 output and then connected to a DB9-USB converter. I have been using that for years to provide GPS data to my computer, but I can't get the Furuno update software to connect.

FYI - We know a SM with Garmin and they have been blissfully unaware that they may have been transmitting erroneous AIS position information since 2019. It is not a Furuno specific bug. It's easy to remain unaware that your reported position is missing or incorrect. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Myfuruno gp 32 gps and my furino chart plotter have gone to May 2002 date. Position is OK on both as I have external aerials. ENL the NZ distributors for furuno say the date cannt be corrected and (what a surprise) recommend a replacement as the solution. Pity  abuse I like my old fashio I have a newer furuno VX 2 as my radar. Will see if I  an patch the date from that. It talks to the plotter and I can full or split screen  the radar to the plotter.
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 11/01/2022 09:51 Scott SV Tengah <scott.nguyen@...> wrote:


I successfully updated my FA-50 AIS. Had to make a crossover ethernet cable since we don't have a hub onboard and the tiny shops on the remote South Pacific atolls are out of fresh vegetables and don't seem to carry crossover ethernet cables, either. ;)  A bit of splicing + turning off windows firewall and I was able to update our FA-50.

Do you have the GP-150? I cannot connect to it to update it. I have the serial output on Data4 enabled with a DB9 output and then connected to a DB9-USB converter. I have been using that for years to provide GPS data to my computer, but I can't get the Furuno update software to connect.

FYI - We know a SM with Garmin and they have been blissfully unaware that they may have been transmitting erroneous AIS position information since 2019. It is not a Furuno specific bug. It's easy to remain unaware that your reported position is missing or incorrect. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

David Vogel
 

Greetings,

 

Into the question is also that of the autopilot … more on this later.  But firstly, decision of brand for chartplotter.

 

For the chartplotter, we have Furuno TZT14 (version 1, touchscreen plus wheel, located at the nav station).  This is integrated Furuno with FAX50 (AIS) and DRS4 (digital radar).  We can also do weather download and display of weather data onto the TZT display, but rarely do so; but do regularly use the tidal and current information.  In any event, this stayed with the with the original AMEL Furuno fitout for the radar, but upgraded to digital sensors and N2K interoperability.  The system works extremely well.  HOWEVER, the original TZT14 has a design/manufacturing fault, in that the display, when in tropical conditions for extended periods of time, starts to degrade with ‘bubbles’ appearing at the corners and edge of the display.  This was, apparently, a known fault with the original displays.  When I first saw this problem (in Martinique), I couriered the TZT14 unit back to the US (at my own expense), the display was replaced (under ‘warrantee’, even though the unit was more than 3 years old at that time), and returned to me by courier at Furuno’s expense, to be back on board and installed within 7 business days after removal.  So, 11/10 to Furuno USA for after-market customer service.   But this does give me cause to wonder if I will soon see the same problem with the replacement display – which would be due to occur about now.  So, I am always interested to understand what might be my next step, if the need for a new chartplotter display should present itself.

 

One feature of Furuno is that the display of the TZT chartplotter can be mirrored in read-only or control mode to a tablet or phone, which is nice (we use iDevices on board); meaning that that the display itself can fail, but in a contingency situation you can still control the TZT as a ‘black box’.  In normal use, you can have a mirrored display at the helm using an iPad, avoiding the expense of a duplicated wired TZT unit.  And Furuno / TZT is expanding the functionality of the paired APPs (now known as “TZ iBoat”), which is even better!  HOWEVER, the data from the Furuno radar can only be used and seen on Furuno equipment, or via the paired APP.   SO, you need to rely on the chartplotter, or the paired phone/tablet.  In contrast, the data from some NAVICO radars (i.e. SimRad, or B&G) can be ‘ported’ directly to other chartplotter software, such as OpenCPN.  So, if you might ever wish to see the radar data directly in OpenCPN, for example, then you will likely never be able to do this with a FURUNO radar.

 

Regarding the autopilot.  This is an integration issue.  I upgraded the autopilot, keeping to the original AMEL equipment fitout – so still Raymarine, but upgraded to EV400.  And we have been absolutely happy with that.  The Raymarine A/P can (like for the original) take the course (route) outputs from the TZT Chartplotter, and operate in “TRACK” mode.  This is very useful when motoring in nil-wind conditions, and when following a defined track across the island-atolls of French Polynesia, where we use tracks derived from satellite pictures in order to avoid isolated reefs and bommies.  We drive the autopilot, the autopilot drives the boat, and we can maintain better situational awareness and lookout.  Wind and current effects mean that using heading mode is not as reliable in such situations.  It is also good for following an earlier track, such as when one has to leave the anchorage in early morning, late afternoon, or at night, such as when weather conditions change unexpectedly and make the anchorage untenable.

 

We also have a B&G Vulcan 7” MFD at the Nav station.  This replaces the functionality of the B&G N2K Hydra2000 display (which is now retired, although still installed).  Expanded functionality of the V7 over the Hydra, because it is graphic (not text/based), also showing laylines, along with wind-, speed, and depth- plots, and as well as can provide basic chartplotter functionality should the Furuno TZT fail in service.   HOWEVER, the course outputs from the B&G Vulcan cannot be seen or understood by the Raymarine Autopilot.  So, we cannot use a route from the V7 as the basis for TRACK mode on the Raymarine autopilot.  I am not sure if this would the case with other B&G chart-plotters, but it is something to keep in mind when investigating the interoperability of various brands. 

 

If I were approaching the decision about an autopilot upgrade again, I think I would have changed over to B&G for the autopilot as well, which would mean that I could use the Vulcan MFD as an alternate A/P control head (Heading & Wind modes), situated downstairs at the nav station, whilst also enjoying the redundant functionality of routing from the V7 to the autopilot.  If I had done so, then if/when it comes time to replace/upgrade the Furuno TZT Chartplotter, the decision would almost certainly be to go all B&G.  (Some NAVICO radars can also be connected by WiFi, not cable. I am still unconvinced about this – but this is a separate discussion.)

 

As an aside, we also upgraded to three B&G Triton2 displays at the helm, and find these MFDs to be perfectly suited to the task, whether on-anchor, manoeuvring in-harbour, coastal, or offshore – we configure the displays for each different environment, or depending on what else is going on. 

 

Hope this helps,

 

David

SM#396, Perigee

New Zealand

 

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Joan Blaas <joan.blaas@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, 10 January 2022 at 8:12 am
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

 

Dear fellow Amel owners,

The original Furuno Navnet plotter & radar on my Amel 55 needs to be replaced. I also have a b&g H3000 Hydra system as wel as two Furuno Fab 7002 autopilots. The Hydra works fine the autopilots have a bit a mind of their own...

I now only want to replace the plotter & radar and later on this year/next year replace the whole system. We are planning a Atlantic circumnavigation in 2023/2024. 

I need some advice / opinion what I should do? Should I stick to the Amel tradition with a Furuno plotter/radar (and complexity of a multi brand system) or gradually move to an B&G only system? 

And what model should I choose?

Your experience and advise.is highly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Joan

SV Caconano
Amel55 #05


Re: Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

Arno Luijten
 

Peter,
Below is the spec-sheet of the secondary display I've used.

For the primary display I did some modifications as the LCD was very bad. I replaced the LCD and also replaced the glass panel in front of it by a touch-sensitive acrylic panel making it effectively a touchscreen monitor.

Cheers,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

Arno Luijten
 

Peter,

This is the schematic diagram with all the parts. Be aware that I have two Furuno course computers and the diagram shows only one as there can only one be active at a given moment.

Cheers,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

Arno Luijten
 

I talked to Furuno and they provided me with the suggested 2.02 software for the AIS transceiver (enclosed). I did the update and it is working again as usual.

For the GP150 (Not the DUAL) they are chasing the correct software. But I'm afraid it also requires a cable connected to DATA4 that is different from the other cables. My Amel did not have the DATA4 cable attached.

If I receive news I will post it here.

Regards,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

Arno Luijten
 

Scott,

I paid about 10k $ for everything together. I did however manage to get some of the toys at good prices on eBay. That takes patience.

I'm working on the rollover bug (see other thread). There is 2.02 software available for the AIS that I just installed.

Cheers,

Arno


Re: Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

Arno Luijten
 

Joerg,

Did you update the Course computers to the latest firmware. They added a lot of sailboat-stuff in the more recent firmwares.

Regards,

Arno


Re: Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Arno,

Just curious - how much did that entire system cost you?

Which radar do you have? We have the Navnet VX2 so perhaps our radar is older and won't work with the TZ2.

Ours works reasonably well aside from GPS rollover bugs (ha!) and I'm loathe to upgrade since you confirmed what I feared: "But it was a lot of work installing it all."

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

Scott SV Tengah
 

Bill,

I have the relevant files for the devices I have onboard. The issue is that I cannot connect to my GP-150 through the Furuno update software, even though I have been able to connect using Opencpn for years.

But thanks for posting - others can give it a go and report back. 
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

 

The following file may help:
I have all of the available Furuno software upgrades and instructions on my website for the following Furuno models:














On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 2:51 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
I successfully updated my FA-50 AIS. Had to make a crossover ethernet cable since we don't have a hub onboard and the tiny shops on the remote South Pacific atolls are out of fresh vegetables and don't seem to carry crossover ethernet cables, either. ;)  A bit of splicing + turning off windows firewall and I was able to update our FA-50.

Do you have the GP-150? I cannot connect to it to update it. I have the serial output on Data4 enabled with a DB9 output and then connected to a DB9-USB converter. I have been using that for years to provide GPS data to my computer, but I can't get the Furuno update software to connect.

FYI - We know a SM with Garmin and they have been blissfully unaware that they may have been transmitting erroneous AIS position information since 2019. It is not a Furuno specific bug. It's easy to remain unaware that your reported position is missing or incorrect. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

Scott SV Tengah
 

I successfully updated my FA-50 AIS. Had to make a crossover ethernet cable since we don't have a hub onboard and the tiny shops on the remote South Pacific atolls are out of fresh vegetables and don't seem to carry crossover ethernet cables, either. ;)  A bit of splicing + turning off windows firewall and I was able to update our FA-50.

Do you have the GP-150? I cannot connect to it to update it. I have the serial output on Data4 enabled with a DB9 output and then connected to a DB9-USB converter. I have been using that for years to provide GPS data to my computer, but I can't get the Furuno update software to connect.

FYI - We know a SM with Garmin and they have been blissfully unaware that they may have been transmitting erroneous AIS position information since 2019. It is not a Furuno specific bug. It's easy to remain unaware that your reported position is missing or incorrect. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: In Mast Furling

Martin Birkhoff
 

Hello Joerg,

Since we got these sails we never had any problem furling them downwind or on broad reach. The only problem that can occur when unfurling is that the top of the first batten gets caught in the V1 shroud. To avoid this, we bring the boom closer if necessary. 
I can add that we never have to adjust the vertical angle of the boom to a certain point. Furling in and out always is working fine.

 

From our point of view one of the most important skills a bluewater yacht must have is the ability to reef and furl main (and mizzen) on all courses to the wind. It may sound strange but my captain and I voted for full battened sails because we were (and still are) convinced that it is the most reliable solution using an in mast furling system.

---

Interesting to see your pics, Laurens.

The front battens end clearly above the foot. This certainly makes it much easier to pull out the battens compared to our design. The sails on the pics have fewer battens: 4 and 3 instead of 5 and 4 like ours. The sail cloth seems to be membrane instead of our laminate fabrics (triradial).


Re: In Mast Furling

Dave_Benjamin
 

As a sailmaker, I hope that your Elvstrom representative is local and can sort out any issues you have in person. When adding battens to a furling mainsail, we are eliminating leech hollow somewhat or completely and in some cases adding some positive roach. I've been very cautious with battens in furling mains because we've seen some fellow cruisers have issues with them. I think the advantage of attempting this on the Amel is that the cavity is generously sized unlike the masts we encounter on common production boats. 

The way Henri designed these boats was with a low aspect ratio sailplan that relies more on the genoa to drive the boat. The performance gains of adding battens to furling mains on an Amel are not the same gains that someone with a high aspect sloop rig would have. Also, the gains are most notable while sailing upwind, which whilst cruising, hopefully we are not doing so much of. 

Many years ago we set up an Oyster furling main with partial battens to eliminate hollow and the boat transited the Southern Ocean without issue. 

Regards, Dave Benjamin


Re: Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

Joerg Esdorn
 

Joan, I have the Navnet TZ Touch 14 plotter on my boat (#53 from 2016) integrated with a laptop at the chart table running the Time Zero Professional software.  The laptop uses the same charts as the plotter - so you don't have to buy separate licenses.  The TZ Professional integrates very well with the  TZT so I do all my course work and navigation at the laptop with a mouse and send the courses to the plotter at the press of a button.  This is much easier than working on the plotter or a second plotter down below.  I have the B&G 5000 system for sailing instruments which are great.  I like the overall system very much but I don't like the Furuno autopilots - they are made for fishing and motorboats, not sailboats.  I find it impossible to adjust the sensitivity to my liking  and the "learning" function seems to have no brain for sailing at all.  for example, every time the wind speed changes by a few knots and the balance of the boat changes as a result, the pilot initially will keep the old rudder angle for a few minutes rather than keeping the course to the apparent wind constant.  Eventually, it "learns" but it takes way too long and meanwhile the sails are flogging or way overtrimmed.

Recently, I had occasion to install a complete B&G 5000 system including autopilot and Vulcan plotter on another boat and I now have the direct comparison.  The Vulcan plotter has a bunch of very good functions for sailing that the Furuno doesn't have - like laylines, etc - but many of these functions are mostly for racing.  I would find them useful on the Amel as well but that's personal preference.  The Vulcan also has very good software which brilliantly integrates with the H5000 system.  But I'm not aware of a navigation software package that integrates with the Vulcan and enables me to navigate on a laptop - maybe Deckman is that system but I've heard it's no longer being updated.  

Based upon my initial, limited experience, the H5000 autopilot is better at holding a course to the apparent/true wind than the Furuno which generally moves the rudder too much and always takes a long time to adjust to changes in conditions.  It has a bunch of other things, like gust response, which are very useful for a sailboat.  But, the Furuno autopilot integrates brilliantly with the plotter and I'd have to confirm how the H5000 autopilot works with the plotter.  

So, if I were to upgrade my system, I would likely:

*.  strongly consider a B&G plotter (probably Zeus rather than Vulcan) if I can find navigation software for a laptop that integrates with the plotter; failing that, I'd stay with the Furuno/TZ laptop combo
*  Keep the H5000
* get the H5000 autopilot as the main autopilot but if I stayed with the Furuno plotter, I'd have to get comfortable with the integration with the Furuno plotter.  I'd keep the second Furuno autopilot as a backup. 

I hope this helps you in your decision.  Cheers Joerg

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in La Rochelle




Re: Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

Peter Forbes
 

Arno,

Brilliant thank you - please send me the schematic circuit diagram and equipment list.

i think I will follow your example.

best wishes

Peter

Peter Forbes
The Old Rectory 
Farnham
Blandford
DT11 8 DE
07836 209730

On 10 Jan 2022, at 12:00, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Joan,

I can tell you what I have done on our 54.
Originally our boat came with the Navnet3D system, two 502 Autopilots and the B&G H3000 set.

Although the Navnet 3D is not a bad system the power consumption is very high. Having tough about the situation for some time I decided to go for Furuno for most stuff as that was the most cost effective.
I replaced the course computers and control boxes with the new 702 generation. They work excellent. You may need to update the software on the computers if you have problems.

The NavNet 3D has been replaced with the Navnet TZ2 blackbox. This box can drive two displays independently so it now drives the inside screen and a new outside screen that replaced the 12" Navnet plotter that was there. I kept the radar, AIS and weatherfax as all work together with the new TZ2 blackbox. The instruments are replaced with Furuno's FI70. I bought a NMEA183 multiplexer and NMEA2000 bridge (Shipmodul Miniplex) to get data to and from the H3000 CPU and the NMEA2000 backbone. A TCP/IP bridge puts all navdata on the local WiFi network.
The system works very good and kept the costs acceptable. It takes about 25% of the power of the original system. But it was a lot of work installing it all. If you want I can send you the schematic diagram of the system.

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Should I Refit a Furuno or choose a B&G plotter?

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Joan,

I can tell you what I have done on our 54.
Originally our boat came with the Navnet3D system, two 502 Autopilots and the B&G H3000 set.

Although the Navnet 3D is not a bad system the power consumption is very high. Having tough about the situation for some time I decided to go for Furuno for most stuff as that was the most cost effective.
I replaced the course computers and control boxes with the new 702 generation. They work excellent. You may need to update the software on the computers if you have problems.

The NavNet 3D has been replaced with the Navnet TZ2 blackbox. This box can drive two displays independently so it now drives the inside screen and a new outside screen that replaced the 12" Navnet plotter that was there. I kept the radar, AIS and weatherfax as all work together with the new TZ2 blackbox. The instruments are replaced with Furuno's FI70. I bought a NMEA183 multiplexer and NMEA2000 bridge (Shipmodul Miniplex) to get data to and from the H3000 CPU and the NMEA2000 backbone. A TCP/IP bridge puts all navdata on the local WiFi network.
The system works very good and kept the costs acceptable. It takes about 25% of the power of the original system. But it was a lot of work installing it all. If you want I can send you the schematic diagram of the system.

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

Bob Grey
 

Yep same issue on my boat, A55 Renaissance 3 and also Another 55 Serenity in Sydney, all went silent mode and date went to may 2002, I got the date back by changing the time source to my TZ15. Have to contact Furuno on how to get the ais transmit back.

Bob Grey
Renaissance 3
A55 #25


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

Wolfgang Weber
 

Hi Scott,
I found some help ( softwareupdate etc) for this problem.


Wolfgang  SY ELISE  Amel 54 #162 La Rochelle

5081 - 5100 of 66608