Date   

Crack in skegg in line with the lower edge of pintle see photos

Chris Paul
 

Hi,
I am not sure what to do about this one - hopefully someone can advise me.

The boat came out of the water yesterday and this crack was noticed. 
Maybe zoom in a bit.
The second photo shows the crack about 10mm below the paint scraper sharp edge and in line with the pintle.

Obviously it needs fixing - before I go back into the water.
How could this happen?
Have other boats had this problem & fixed it successfully?


Chris Paul
Yacht GLAZIG
SM352 
Whangarei, NZ


Inline image
Inline image


Regards, Chris Paul 


Maramu original Skin fitting sizes

Chris Warren
 

Hi,
i am in the process of working out the re commissioning of my new to me Maramu. I am planning on replacing many seacocks and skin fittings. I am away from the boat and want to take the correct parts with me when I go.
Are any Maramu owners able to confirm the size of the head intake valves?
Does anybody know what sizes the original skin fittings and  drains are? (both under the water and at the waterline?
This boat seems to have 2 head intakes and then 3 intakes in the engine room for engine generator and water maker. - along with the 2 cockpit drains under the water line.
There are then 7? outlets on the waterline all on the port side which look like the original recessed ones. - any idea what sizes these are?
Under waterline
Head Aft
Head Forward
Engine
Generator
Watermaker

At waterline port forward
Forward
Head
Head sink
Cockpit locker

Thanks for you help
Chris Warren
Kaleula@...
Maramu#69

at water line port Aft
Galley sink
head sink
head overboard
Other


Re: New sails [cross-cut * Nautosphere VOYAGER v tri-radial HydraNet]

Bill Kinney
 

Hi Dave,

Hope you are doing well!  

Lots of complex questions...

If you go with a hybrid fabric that is designed for a crosscut sail, the difference between the cross cut and the triradial will be small, but still real. I very much doubt anybody has real data, just opinions.  There is a lot of confusion between the short term shape stability of the sail, long term shape retention, and just the mechanical strength of the sail. 

The triradial cut will have much better shape stability under load than the crosscut.  On the down side, since they are almost all made with single stitched seams, they take a bit more maintenance.  Since the seams are now parallel to the force, they tend not to blow out, but they are still subject to chafe and occasionally need to be restitched.  

Certainly the triradial cuts for both genoa and main have proven themselves as suitable for furling.  I would NOT step up the weight of the sailcloth above the original.  That will just compromise the light wind performance for no real benefit.  I don't know of anybody who has torn out sailcloth of the recommended weight.  Failures are almost always seam failures that can be prevented by inspection and repair before failure.

Sails of any material (except laminates!) will lose shape long before they fail mechanically. I very much doubt that ANY sail after 25,000 miles of tropical cruising will be "like new" in performance. Genoas can be nursed along--at a significant performance cost, but older stretched out mains and mizzens will start to give you furling problems.

The advice we got from our sailmaker was to go with radial cut for performance, and use Dimension Polyant ProRadial fabric at about a 50% savings over HydraNet.  His opinion was that the ProRadial would show similar lifespan, and would have a bit less short term shape stability.  In his opinion, the Hydranet would be his first recommendation for a racing boat that didn't go with laminate, but he felt the benefits for a cruising boat were minimal. That's the direction we went, and have been very happy with them.  They were a dramatic improvement over the dacron cross cut sails the previous owner had installed.  Would we get 50% more life if we had gone with Hydranet?  We'll never know.

Our cross cut mizzen from the previous owner (also dacron)  was baggy enough that furling was getting fussy.

By far the most important thing is to be sure that the sailmaker either knows what an Amel sail is supposed to look like, or carefully copies what is extant.


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

Alan Leslie
 

We have GP90 connected to Navnet VX2 radar/plotter, Furuno VHF, Camino AIS by each data port on the GP 90, without problems.
Our Camino AIS is connected to the VX2, also without problems, except that initially we had to get a software upgrade for the VX2 in order to handle the AIS sentences. This has all been working fine for years.
Furuno UK confirmed to me also that the date rollover issue will not affect the transmission of accurate position data.
As far as I can tell, the date is not used anywhere, except maybe for VHF DSC call, which we don't use - there is no DSC service in the South Pacific.
So, I doubt we will have any problems. 
AND I quite like the old Navnet VX2 system - it's reliable solid, totally waterproof - been functioning on Elyse now for 17 years without any problems.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Re: What to do with LiFePO4 batteries when the boat is layed up?

Brent Cameron
 

The big advantage for cars (and laptops)  of the Nickel  Cobalt batteries is that they can CHARGE at multiple times C (their rated capacity) in an hour. (Eg if you have a 100A battery you can fill it from empty in 30-60 minutes or even less with more aggressive chemistries). This is important for cars as you don’t want to have to wait long to charge them. Same for discharge rates - you want to be able to burn up massive amounts of energy with rabbit starts (0-100kph in 2-3 seconds). On our sailboats we don’t need to charge or discharge at much more than 0.2C even with running the bow thruster and electric winches so no need for the more aggressive (and potentially explosive) technologies. You don’t really have that option with cars unless you stay close to home as you don’t want to take 5-6 hours to charge them.  Some manufacturers seem ok with that as they figure that owners will slow charge at home over night but buyers will be surprised if they ever do a long trip and need to recharge quickly. 

Brent

On Jan 14, 2022, 12:24 PM -0600, main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io, wrote:

Mark

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: Fixed Prop installation.

 

Learn something new everyday. 😃😃

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 13:49 Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Reudi. 

You Can use the autoprop puller to remove the fixed prop. 
Use the bolt holes, align with the base of the fixed prop blades and then “sew” the puller to the base of the blades using 5-7mm dynema. 

Clearly less than ideal, but it works.



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206

On Jan 15, 2022, at 1:25 AM, Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:



Hi Bill

 

Thank you very much for your answer. The pictures are very useful!

In this case I need a lot of grease and some wood pieces to remove it with careful pushes from the front side.

 

Best regards

Ruedi

SY WASABI

AMEL54 #55

 

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Freitag, 14. Januar 2022 um 14:43
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Fixed Prop installation.

 

Partial answer:

 

The shaft is tapered with a key. The fixed propeller is also tapered. A tapered-shaft propeller will almost always need a prop-puller to remove. The AutoProp puller is not made for the fixed propeller.

 

In terms of performance, someone else will need to answer, but I am sure there is a difference and I am sure how much of a difference is a matter of opinion. Check here for more information: https://www.bruntonspropellers.com/autoprop

 

<image001.png>

<image002.png>

<image003.png>

<image004.png>

 

 

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 2:56 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:

Hi Amelias

 

Does anyone experienced the performance of the Original Fixed Prop delivered by AMEL, compared to the Pruntons Autoprop?

 

@ Mohammad, et all

I have seen you installed the fix prop last year. How was the installation? Exactly as Bill believed?

How do you removed afterwards without puller? Was it easy to take it off?

 

Best regards and thanks

 

Ruedi Waldispuehl

SY WASABI

AMEL54 #55

 

Wintering in Almerimar

 

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Montag, 19. Juli 2021 um 18:32
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Identify this part

 

Hi Bill;

 

Just completed this install under water. Confirm that your depiction is the correct way of installing the fixed prop. Attached please find some pictures of our final installation. Sorry for the blank screens in the screen shots. I have 4 monitors, so that’s how it comes out. But it is easy to zoom in and get a clear picture.

 

Respectfully;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 6:10 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Identify this part

 

I would appreciate it if someone who has installed the fixed prop will verify the image below and the correct way to lock the prop in place:

<image005.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 7:48 AM Richard May via groups.io <airwisrich2000=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Super Maramu.  


Re: Mounting semy flex solar panels on the deck

Bernd Spanner
 
Edited

There is a good facebook group called Solar in a Boat. Check it out! 
When you glue you have to do it the right way... Eg panels MUST be well glued. Otherwise very high temps (if air bubbles under the panel) on the deck under the panels can be the result, some even mentioning a fire threat from flex panels.
 I am back to rigid for the time being, better power/area performance.
--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal


Re: Fixed Prop installation.

Porter McRoberts
 

Reudi. 

You Can use the autoprop puller to remove the fixed prop. 
Use the bolt holes, align with the base of the fixed prop blades and then “sew” the puller to the base of the blades using 5-7mm dynema. 

Clearly less than ideal, but it works.



Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On Jan 15, 2022, at 1:25 AM, Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:



Hi Bill

 

Thank you very much for your answer. The pictures are very useful!

In this case I need a lot of grease and some wood pieces to remove it with careful pushes from the front side.

 

Best regards

Ruedi

SY WASABI

AMEL54 #55

 

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Freitag, 14. Januar 2022 um 14:43
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Fixed Prop installation.

 

Partial answer:

 

The shaft is tapered with a key. The fixed propeller is also tapered. A tapered-shaft propeller will almost always need a prop-puller to remove. The AutoProp puller is not made for the fixed propeller.

 

In terms of performance, someone else will need to answer, but I am sure there is a difference and I am sure how much of a difference is a matter of opinion. Check here for more information: https://www.bruntonspropellers.com/autoprop

 

<image001.png>

<image002.png>

<image003.png>

<image004.png>

 

 

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 2:56 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:

Hi Amelias

 

Does anyone experienced the performance of the Original Fixed Prop delivered by AMEL, compared to the Pruntons Autoprop?

 

@ Mohammad, et all

I have seen you installed the fix prop last year. How was the installation? Exactly as Bill believed?

How do you removed afterwards without puller? Was it easy to take it off?

 

Best regards and thanks

 

Ruedi Waldispuehl

SY WASABI

AMEL54 #55

 

Wintering in Almerimar

 

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Montag, 19. Juli 2021 um 18:32
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Identify this part

 

Hi Bill;

 

Just completed this install under water. Confirm that your depiction is the correct way of installing the fixed prop. Attached please find some pictures of our final installation. Sorry for the blank screens in the screen shots. I have 4 monitors, so that’s how it comes out. But it is easy to zoom in and get a clear picture.

 

Respectfully;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 6:10 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Identify this part

 

I would appreciate it if someone who has installed the fixed prop will verify the image below and the correct way to lock the prop in place:

<image005.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 7:48 AM Richard May via groups.io <airwisrich2000=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Super Maramu.  


Re: What to do with LiFePO4 batteries when the boat is layed up?

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 
Edited

Hi Joerg,
 
To answer your question, charging to 100% is OK for Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFePO4), which is the chemistry Elon refers to by "iron pack".
 
Edit: By nickel, he refers to lithium nickel-cobalt-aluminun oxide (NCA) batteries. Nickel-lithium batteries (Ni-Li) are experimental.
 
As Scott has said, big difference in holding them at 100% vs charging them to 100% before starting discharge phase.
 
There's lots of info on this forum about storing LiFePO4 batteries. Leaving them disconnected at their optimal SOC is probably best, but depends how the boat will be left, how long, if some systems need power, bilge pump, etc.
 
Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
NZ


On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 5:35 AM Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I’m reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries become the prevailing battery technology for electric cars in China.  The article includes the following quote of Elon Musk: “I’d personally slightly opt for the iron pack, as it wants to be charged to 100% whereas nickel prefers ~90%.”  So is there really no concern about charging LiFePO4 batteries to 100% or is Elon talking about a different technology?  

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in La Rochelle 

 

 


Re: What to do with LiFePO4 batteries when the boat is layed up?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Charging to 100% and keeping at 100% are two different things.


On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 06:35 Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I’m reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries become the prevailing battery technology for electric cars in China.  The article includes the following quote of Elon Musk: “I’d personally slightly opt for the iron pack, as it wants to be charged to 100% whereas nickel prefers ~90%.”  So is there really no concern about charging LiFePO4 batteries to 100% or is Elon talking about a different technology?  

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in La Rochelle 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: What to do with LiFePO4 batteries when the boat is layed up?

Mark Erdos
 

Be sure to check with your insurance company before changing your battery technology. You may find yourself with a voided policy if you file a claim. Some insurance companies now have very strict policies regarding lithium upgrades.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruno COTTE
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 6:46 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] What to do with LiFePO4 batteries when the boat is layed up?

 

LifePO4 are a new technology for cars … it was too expensive . I am changing my battery bank for 4x200 A / 24v Mastervolt LifePO4 batteries. 

Envoyé de mon iPhone



Le 14 janv. 2022 à 17:35, Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313@...> a écrit :

I’m reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries become the prevailing battery technology for electric cars in China.  The article includes the following quote of Elon Musk: “I’d personally slightly opt for the iron pack, as it wants to be charged to 100% whereas nickel prefers ~90%.”  So is there really no concern about charging LiFePO4 batteries to 100% or is Elon talking about a different technology?  

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in La Rochelle 


Re: What to do with LiFePO4 batteries when the boat is layed up?

Bruno COTTE
 

LifePO4 are a new technology for cars … it was too expensive . I am changing my battery bank for 4x200 A / 24v Mastervolt LifePO4 batteries. 

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 14 janv. 2022 à 17:35, Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313@...> a écrit :

I’m reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries become the prevailing battery technology for electric cars in China.  The article includes the following quote of Elon Musk: “I’d personally slightly opt for the iron pack, as it wants to be charged to 100% whereas nickel prefers ~90%.”  So is there really no concern about charging LiFePO4 batteries to 100% or is Elon talking about a different technology?  

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in La Rochelle 


Re: What to do with LiFePO4 batteries when the boat is layed up?

Joerg Esdorn
 

I’m reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries become the prevailing battery technology for electric cars in China.  The article includes the following quote of Elon Musk: “I’d personally slightly opt for the iron pack, as it wants to be charged to 100% whereas nickel prefers ~90%.”  So is there really no concern about charging LiFePO4 batteries to 100% or is Elon talking about a different technology?  

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
Currently in La Rochelle 


Re: Fixed Prop installation.

WASABI - Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hi Bill

 

Thank you very much for your answer. The pictures are very useful!

In this case I need a lot of grease and some wood pieces to remove it with careful pushes from the front side.

 

Best regards

Ruedi

SY WASABI

AMEL54 #55

 

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Freitag, 14. Januar 2022 um 14:43
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Fixed Prop installation.

 

Partial answer:

 

The shaft is tapered with a key. The fixed propeller is also tapered. A tapered-shaft propeller will almost always need a prop-puller to remove. The AutoProp puller is not made for the fixed propeller.

 

In terms of performance, someone else will need to answer, but I am sure there is a difference and I am sure how much of a difference is a matter of opinion. Check here for more information: https://www.bruntonspropellers.com/autoprop

 

 

 

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 2:56 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:

Hi Amelias

 

Does anyone experienced the performance of the Original Fixed Prop delivered by AMEL, compared to the Pruntons Autoprop?

 

@ Mohammad, et all

I have seen you installed the fix prop last year. How was the installation? Exactly as Bill believed?

How do you removed afterwards without puller? Was it easy to take it off?

 

Best regards and thanks

 

Ruedi Waldispuehl

SY WASABI

AMEL54 #55

 

Wintering in Almerimar

 

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Montag, 19. Juli 2021 um 18:32
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Identify this part

 

Hi Bill;

 

Just completed this install under water. Confirm that your depiction is the correct way of installing the fixed prop. Attached please find some pictures of our final installation. Sorry for the blank screens in the screen shots. I have 4 monitors, so that’s how it comes out. But it is easy to zoom in and get a clear picture.

 

Respectfully;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 6:10 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Identify this part

 

I would appreciate it if someone who has installed the fixed prop will verify the image below and the correct way to lock the prop in place:

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 7:48 AM Richard May via groups.io <airwisrich2000=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Super Maramu.  


Re: Fixed Prop installation.

Bill Kinney
 

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 12:56 AM, Rudolf Waldispuehl wrote:

Does anyone experienced the performance of the Original Fixed Prop delivered by AMEL, compared to the Pruntons Autoprop?

 

@ Mohammad, et all

I have seen you installed the fix prop last year. How was the installation? Exactly as Bill believed?

How do you removed afterwards without puller? Was it easy to take it off?

 

Ruedi,

The Performance differences between an Autoprop and a fixed prop are complicated.  While motoring at cruising speed and on up to full throttle, the differences will be trivial, becasue this is the power range the fixed prop is optimized for.  At lower boat speeds, the Autoprop will be somewhat more fuel efficient by allowing the engine to fully power up at lower RPM.  In other words you will reach the same boat speed at lower RPM. This might matter to people who motor sail a lot.

The Autoprop is "fussier." It will show significantly reduced performance when fouled compared to the same level of fouling on a fixed prop.  (Although ANY fouled prop is a real fuel suck!)

Any feathering type prop will be MUCH better than a fixed prop at low sailing speeds. This will matter to some people more than others.  If you are the kind of person who starts an engine whenever boat speed drops below 4 knots the fixed prop has no real penalty here, but if you refer to sail along at 2 knots instead of listening to the engine, the lower drag of Autoprop (or any other feathering prop) matters--a lot.  

I find the behavior of the Autoprop in close quarters maneuvering to be less predictable that a fixed prop or a MaxProp, with more of a lag between throttling up and getting the boat moving, and less of a linear relationship between throttle and thrust.  But, to be fair, this might just be a result of me having far fewer hours on an Autoprop equipped boat.

You can not expect to remove a fixed prop without a proper puller. If it is so loose it just comes off by hand, it was definitely not as tight as it should have been.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL


Re: New sails [cross-cut * Nautosphere VOYAGER v tri-radial HydraNet]

James Alton
 

Nick and all,

   Q-sails delivered my new Hydranet main and Genoa today.   Both sails fit well and the workmanship looks excellent. I was charged exactly the amount in the original quote with the exception of a small 70 Euro delivery fee to Marmaris, Turkey.  The original agreement was for us to sail Sueno to Izmir so an added delivery charge was to be expected.  The pricing was very good and my sails were delivered on time.  I was told a bit about the supply chain issues which can be a big problem when it comes to delivery times on some sails.  In my case, I wanted to keep the original Amel crosscut sail layout and the Hydranet crosscut fabric was available.  The Hydranet Tri-radial material  for instance is in high demand and production is very limited so I would urge patience if that is the material your sails will be built of.  Keep in mind that Q-sails does not manufacture sail cloth and they cannot build sails until they have the materials.  These two new sails now give me a complete matching set of Hydranet sails from Q-sails since Q-sails built me a really nice Mizzen back in 2018. I learned today that Q-sails built almost 2000 new sails last year, I had no idea that they were that large of an operation.  I will be going back to them for a mizzen balloner later this year.
   
   We are really enjoying Turkey...

Best,
James Alton
SV Sueno 
Maramu #220


-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington@...>
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Dec 7, 2021 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] New sails [cross-cut * Nautosphere VOYAGER v tri-radial HydraNet]

Hi David,

I bought Amelia an Amel 54 (2006) in 2017. She came with the original Hydranet sails,  has sailed two transatlantic and a fair bit of general cruising, including some extremely windy weather in Greece.  They have lasted very well.  Only now am I thinking that a new mainsail is a good idea. Mostly because of the fact that it is battened and is getting tricky to furl…..I would not consider any other sail material…..

Thus have ordered a new Hydranet mainsail from Q sails in Turkey. It has been completed and is waiting for my return to Turkey in the spring. I decided to order it without the vertical battens…..As a matter of courtesy to Q sails, they quoted a competitive price and at all times kept me informed of a slight delay in the supply of the material from Germany due to supply problems further up the chain. The sail was ready two weeks later than scheduled….no big deal. 

It will be interesting to lay the new on top of the old one to see just how much area I lose. If I am happy then I will get a new mizzen and genoa from them.

My penny’s worth

Nick

S/Y Amelia
AML 54-019 Leros



On 7 Dec 2021, at 15:41, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

I will give you my opinion regarding QUESTION 1:
A54s came with HydraNet sailcloth made by Dimension Polyant, Germany. They were constructed in a TriRadial pattern and had vertical battens. The early 54 HydraNet sails were made by Deme Sails, and later were made by Incidence Sails. I have seen numerous 54s from early (2005) to late model 54s. I have not seen HydraNet "lose its dimensional stability after a few years (maybe as short as 3-4 years), firstly becoming soft to handle, and then baggy." 

I have seen serious damage to HydraNet caused by jamming and chafing of the mainsail vertical battens. Judy and I purchased HydraNet sails in a TriRadial construction in 2012. We experienced none of what you mentioned and I believe that the current owner of BeBe is still satisfied with the sails. HydraNet in a TriRadial construction will cost about 20-50% more than a high-quality Dacron Hybrid (like Dimension Polyant ProRadial) in a TriRadial construction. I believe that you will get far more than 50% life from HydraNet. However, you should get significantly more life from sails made from ProRadial in a TriRadial construction versus Crosscut Dacron sails. Crosscut construction has comparatively large pieces of sailcloth which because of their size, stretching will cause deformity and reduction in performance of the sail beginning at about 5 years. I believe laminates are not for cruising boats. Most sailcloth manufacturers will tell you to expect delamination in 5 years or less.

I recommend that you consider the 3 qualities of sails offered by Incidence Sails (Amel OEM Sailmaker). I negotiated an 18% discount when you order a full set, or 15% when ordering less than a full set. The prices in the following brochure are before the above discounts. Reduce the prices in the brochure by the appropriate discount. Each quality in this brochure is worthwhile, but do not expect the beginning quality to perform as long as the best quality.


If owners of other Amel models are interested in the Incidence Sail information:


Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
  
View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 9:14 PM Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:
Hello David,

My sails are North Sails 3Di Nordam.  A bit more expensive than others but looking and performing great at the 2 year mark.

Whatever your choice other than a “fabricated” sail, I can certify that I’ll pass you with a considerable rate of overtake :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain, SY Eleuthera, SM007, Opua NZ




> On 7 Dec 2021, at 15:58, David Vogel <david.vogel@...> wrote:
> 
> Greetings all,
> 
> After 5 years and ~25,000nm, our sails are starting to show their age, and so we are now scoping replacements.  Mainly UV-damage to the leech area of the main and mizzen, the main- and mizzen-sails that were on the boat at purchase had no UV-protection.  Which (we have discovered) is an oversight that we should have recognised and had corrected early on, especially once we started sailing full-time in the tropics (where we have now been continuously for >4 years).  Being tri-radial cut, it is not so easy to re-cut the sail/s to eliminate the compromised fabric, which is a shame because, apart from the outer 30cm, the remaining fabric is still sound.
> 
> We will be continuing to cruise in the tropics for the foreseeable future.  Meaning, that laminates are out of consideration.
> Explanation: we have seen too many cruisers (and heard even more stories) of those paying for expensive state-of-the-art so-called "cruising laminates", only to have them start to de-laminate after only a season or two.  The cause, seen more often in the tropics, seems to be that the laminating manufacturing process used to sandwich the various fabrics together, uses heat to melt and/or cure the glue, and the temperatures used are deliberately kept low in order to protect the fabric from thermal damage during manufacture, being only slightly higher than 100ºC.   The in-mast temperatures reached when sails are furled, especially in the tropics, approaches or exceeds this temperature.  The situation is, reportedly, worse with in-mast furling systems (as opposed to slab-reefing).  This is as explained by several long-term cruising sailors with vastly more experience than us.  It makes sense, and aligns with what we have seen over the past few years.  Conclusion: no laminates for us.
> 
> Which leaves us with more conventional dacron-based woven sail-cloth, including hybrids that utilise high-modulus fibers such as "Ultra-PE" (Ultra-Polyethylene, such as Spectra or Dyneema yarns), which is introduced in order to improve strength and shape stability - once such sailcloth being HydraNet.  I have heard that HydraNet starts to lose it's dimensional stability after a few years (maybe as short as 3-4 years), firstly becoming soft to handle, and then baggy.  Which creates problems firstly for sail performance, and then also for in-mast furling systems.  Which leads me to ...
> 
> QUESTION 1:
> Does anyone have experience with Hydranet sails beyond 5-7 years?  The use-case here being full-time live-aboard cruising, meaning, permanently rigged (not removed for the off season, nor on-anchor, as we have to ready to sail-away at a moments notice; and we generally avoid marinas, so the sails are on 365 days a year); mileage: 3,000 to 5,000nm a year, all-weather blue-water passage-making in the topical (hotter) and mid-latitudes (greater likelihood of encountering stronger than gale-force).
> 
> ===
> Next, the cut of the sail ::: traditional best practice within the AMEL community is to use a TRI-RADIAL cut - in addition to aligning the high-modulus fibres to the load (mainly vertically, roughly parallel to the leech, radiating from the head, tack and clew), this allows the use of differing weight fabric around the sail - heavier at the foot and leech where there are greater loads for fully-unfurled conditions, and needing to bear a greater load in stronger wind-condition when the sail is partially furled; and lighter sailcloth in the luff areas, less loading under fully unfurled conditions, and less likely to be exposed to high winds (because it should furled away) that would permanently deform a lighter fabric.  But not easy to re-cut.  Meaning that once a sail is 'blown' and starts to deform, or suffers UV-degradation along the leech, it largely becomes a throw-away item.  (Proper UV protection in the first place would avoid this, either the paint-on solutions or extra covering such as an extra layer of sailcloth, or Sunbrella or, perhaps preferentially, the lighter WeatherMax.)  But the outcome is the same, once UV damaged such that the strength of the outer sailcloth is degraded, even if the rest of the sail-cloth is sound, there is not much that can be done.  
> 
> So, I have now questions about useful life of Tri-Radial HydraNet sails - especially if/as it starts to age, and becomes soft &/or baggy, thereby potentially introducing problems with our in-mast furlers. As a consequence of which I am now starting to look at other contemporary alternatives.
> 
> Sail construction --> CROSS-CUT.  Normally, due to the conventional 'best practice' within the AMEL community, I would not consider this.  But there are advantages, it would seem, with cross-cut sails with respect to the 'furl-ability' of the sail.  Specifically, because the nearly horizontal seams spiral up the mast as the sail is furled, and hence do not overlap during furling (as is the case for a tri-radial cut sail), cross-cut sails can accommodate a heavier cloth within a given mast profile.  However, cross-cut sails do not have the advantage of being able to use heavier cloth in areas of greater load, as is the case for tri-radials - each cross-cut fore-to-aft panel uses the same-weight sail-cloth.  Offset against the use of a heavier cloth across all the sail.
> 
> Type of fabric: "Nautosphere VOYAGER" is a fabric we have just heard of.  It is a hybrid fabric (that is, dacron base incorporating high-modulus yarn, in this case, dyneema).  Downside, it is not suitable for tri-radial construction - only for cross-cut.  It's claim to fame is that the dyneema threads are woven across the bolt of fabric (that is, along the weft), meaning that the strength and dimensional stability of a cross-cut sail built using this fabric will be roughly vertical - that is, approximately parallel to the leech, which is in alignment with the primary load lines.  A cross-cut sail made of this fabric can be made of heavier cloth (due to the better furl-ability), meaning greater strength initially and, all other things being equal, greater longevity.  And, being a simple cross-cut, simpler construction with a lesser number of panels (and seams, than tri-radial), meaning reduced labour cost.  In addition, UV damage at the leech can be more easily re-cut out.  Which leads me to ...
> 
> QUESTION 2:
> Does anyone have experience in cross-cut sails for the main &/or mizzen for the in-mast furling AMELs, and especially the Super Maramu.
> 
> QUESTION 3:
> Does anyone have experience with, or knowledge of, "Nautosphere VOYAGER" fabric?
> 
> Thank you, in anticipation, for your shared insights and knowledge.
> 
> David
> SM#396, Perigee
> On-the-hard, Riverside Drive Marina
> Whangarei, New Zealand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 








Re: Mounting semy flex solar panels on the deck

Bill Kinney
 

I'll double up on Bill R's comment about screws and wet core!  Screws CAN be done safely, but it has to be done correctly.  Just driving screws into the deck WILL cause serious problems.  

Given the choices you listed, I would 100% go with tape, because it is reversible without TOO much hassle.  Just be sure that the tape will work on the texture deck surface.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Haollywood, FL


Re: Check your GPS / AIS devices. Some of them failed on Jan 2, 2022 due to the "GPS Rollover" bug

David Crisp
 

With regards GP90 I can confirm Nick's message as I too have been in touch with Furuno UK about my GP90. 

FYI, I have a Furuno NavNet vx2 and RDP149, along with Raymarine AIS700 and Icom IC-M506 DSC radio, the AIS and DSC have their own internal GPS.  I'm not aboard at the moment but last season the Furuno vx2 displayed the track data from the AIS700 just fine.  I might try replacing the GP90 GPS data feed into the Furuno vx2 with the AIS GPS data output but I'm not confident it will work - from my VERY limited understanding I don't think the Raymarine AIS outputs the correct GPS sentence format.

If the Furuno technician is correct that the GP90 will provide good GPS position to the vx2 albeit incorrectly dated that's good enough for me and my modest explorations around Greece/Turkey.  I use the Furuno vx2 and chart plotter primarily to display AIS and radar data and as a backup to an iPad (with its own GPS) running Navionics.  Date stamping of tracks on the Furuno is not important to me.

In case it's of use here's the full text of the info' I got from Furuno:
"I think it best we start with the GP90, the GP90 should start working for outputting position data by carrying out the cold start procedure on the same article referenced. The date will be incorrect still but to my knowledge the position should still be correct and work as normal it just means things such as tracks will be recorded with incorrect date stamp, if the GP90 is feeding a DSC radio this could also cause issues as the incorrect date would be output in case of a distress alert.
I assume the VX2 unit already has the AIS interfaced so I presume the software is new enough to not require the interface, if you could confirm the VX2 software though it would enable me to have a better guess from my side. I have attached for your reference a picture of how to see what software version you have installed with the unit boots up and the software history of the VX2 unit which shows since V1.08 the need for a interface for a separate AIS interface was removed and handled in software on the VX2 itself. [I have attachments to this message]
Taking GPS data from a AIS into a unit as old the the VX2 is kind of unknown and certainly never tested with a competitors unit, please see possible set backs and you wont know until its been tested I am afraid:
BAUD rate - The AIS units normally speak at 38.4K BAUD and GPS is normally set to 4.8K BAUD, the VX2 may struggle to accept GPS data at this speed its never been tested.
Talker ID - NMEA0183 data has a talker ID stamp at the beginning so a typical GPS sentence structure is some thing like '$GPGLL,5051.7847,N,00118.7023,W,132236,V' and as you can see the beginning of the sentence starts with GP, the GP stands for GPS and denotes the source device. A typical AIS sentence looks like ' !AIVDM,1,1,,B,1CgWDt0000NGulhU?AAWv3;<0D1O,0*5A' so I am not sure the VX2 unit will decode GPS information in this format.
The GP320B was a very popular GPS to have fitted to the VX2 units and the sentences output on NMEA0183 were DTM/GGA/GLL/RMC/VTG/ZDA as per the attached document, if the Raymarine AIS can output these with a GP talker ID then this will be you best chance of getting it working assuming the VX2 can take GPS info from this device in mixed format at 38.4K BAUD. In the case of a Furuno AIS we have a proprietary data sentence which carries position data  over to the unit so we don't see the issue and have by design made our units compatible with each other."

 

Nick, looks like our boats are in the same place - I'm hauled out in Ionian Marine, hoping to get back late April.  Be great to meet up.

--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58
Preveza, Greece


Re: Mounting semy flex solar panels on the deck

 

My Rule: Regardless of what you are mounting on the deck of an Amel, never penetrate the deck with a drill or screw unless you are an expert at protecting the balsa core. I have seen far too many Amels ruined with wet balsa cores because someone wanted to penetrate the deck.

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 3:50 AM Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:

Hello,

I just got two semi flex solar panels that I will mount on the deck near the main mast. There are 3 possibilities to do that project. With screws, with glue or with tape. Any experience with any of the mentioned? 

Thank you.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Fixed Prop installation.

 

Partial answer:

The shaft is tapered with a key. The fixed propeller is also tapered. A tapered-shaft propeller will almost always need a prop-puller to remove. The AutoProp puller is not made for the fixed propeller.

In terms of performance, someone else will need to answer, but I am sure there is a difference and I am sure how much of a difference is a matter of opinion. Check here for more information: https://www.bruntonspropellers.com/autoprop

image.png
image.png
image.png
image.png


On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 2:56 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:

Hi Amelias

 

Does anyone experienced the performance of the Original Fixed Prop delivered by AMEL, compared to the Pruntons Autoprop?

 

@ Mohammad, et all

I have seen you installed the fix prop last year. How was the installation? Exactly as Bill believed?

How do you removed afterwards without puller? Was it easy to take it off?

 

Best regards and thanks

 

Ruedi Waldispuehl

SY WASABI

AMEL54 #55

 

Wintering in Almerimar

 

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Montag, 19. Juli 2021 um 18:32
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Identify this part

 

Hi Bill;

 

Just completed this install under water. Confirm that your depiction is the correct way of installing the fixed prop. Attached please find some pictures of our final installation. Sorry for the blank screens in the screen shots. I have 4 monitors, so that’s how it comes out. But it is easy to zoom in and get a clear picture.

 

Respectfully;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 6:10 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Identify this part

 

I would appreciate it if someone who has installed the fixed prop will verify the image below and the correct way to lock the prop in place:

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 7:48 AM Richard May via groups.io <airwisrich2000=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Super Maramu.  

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