Date   

Re: C drive transmission failure

Ira and Roman Morozov
 

Jose, thank you for pointing that out. We definitely will follow your advice.

Roman and Ira Morozov SM2000 #320 Ginger


Re: C drive transmission failure

Ira and Roman Morozov
 

Thanks for your advice, Oliver! You are absolutely right, the neglect of the C drive service led to big problems


Re: C drive transmission failure

Craig Briggs
 

Roman & Ira,
If you go to Photos and Search for C-Drive you will get some pictures from when I pulled mine that may be helpful. In particular, you'll see how you have to cut away the fairing to get at the front plate allen screws. The entire removed shaft is also shown.
I learned only later that there is a lifting eye on the underside of the engine room overhead directly over the C-Drive that would have helped immensely to life it out.  Also notice the "O" rings on the "trumpet" - you'll want to replace those while you're at it and you should probably also renew the large hose that goes around the hull opening with the large hose clamps on it.
A super fun project - enjoy!
--
Craig Briggs - s/v Sangaris / SN68  Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Raising Boot Stripe

william reynolds
 

I raised my waterline according to the equipment and gear aboard considering max water, fuel, dingy. It is a great convenience in keeping the hull clean.
It' not practical to assume future gear, loads etc. There would be confusion abound. Every SM waterline I have ever seen is high in the bow and underwater in the stern.
Poor reasons given to not raise the waterline. See attached
Bill 
Cloudstreet


Re: C drive transmission failure

Jose Venegas
 

Roman and Ira,

The rust on all surfaces suggests that there was water on the transmission for a long time. In addition to making sure your lubricant level is OK, it is important to check that it does not look milky. Wearing of the third shaft seal near the propeller when the seals are oriented the “Amel way” causes water intake that mixes with the oil because the other two other seals are oriented to prevent oil loss but they allow water intake. If the seals are not replaced, and when the transmission is not used frequently, over time the water settles down and causes the corrosion of all surfaces visible on your pictures.

One good reason to keep an eye on the color of the lubricant, replacing the seals and thinking about seal orientation.

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K 278
RED FROG MARINA (PANAMA)


Re: Wide open throttle

Richard Dallett
 

Hi, Dean,
I am also a bit confused. My A54 is number 68 from 2007 with a ZF25-2.0 gearbox, serial number 156 44 8.  I believe the dipstick when I bought the boat 2 months ago is too long, measuring 128 and 140 mm from mating surface to high and low marks.  I bought a 3311-301-003 from the Ft. Lauderdale dealer, but it measures 102 and 114 from the mating surface to the high and low marks, which is longer than you stated. I don't know if I should just put in 3 litres and mark that on the dipstick as a reference point. Any suggestions? I emailed ZF, but have not had a reply.

Richard
SV Mamba
A54-68


Re: Charisma’s owner a member?

 

Judy and I met Alan Spence in the Pacific. He owns Charisma and is a member of this group. He receives a weekly digest. I emailed him about your question.

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 10:33 AM Lance Leonard <Elscubano@...> wrote:
We were walking the docks at Glen Cove Marina in Vallejo, CA and saw a Maramu. I love looking at boats similar to ours, inspiration for projects etc. If you own Charisma, or know who does we would love a tour. We are currently in Northern California while Minerva is on the hard in Maine getting a repower.
Lance Leonard 
S/V Minerva


Re: Raising Boot Stripe

Ian Park
 

Olivier,
When I bought my Santorin the red stripe at the stet was below the water unloaded. The boat has been loaded for ocean crossing. Since we’re back in UK and unloaded a load of gear we have coastal cruised for 2 Covid seasons in local (UK) waters. We still have to brush/scrape the growth on the red lines above the copper coat and especially at the stern. We don’t have an arch, the hydrovane has been removed the lazarette contains only fenders (bumpers) and we are like ghtly loaded.
I will be raising water line at a he stern. I have yet to see a SN or an SM where the red stripe is visible above the water.
No criticism of your comments on overloading at all, but our beautiful boats do sit neatly on their sterns and I am getting too old to jump into northern waters twice a season to clean up the red stripes.
I guess there are a few others who are not overloaded but have come to the same conclusion.

Best wishes and thanks for all your valuable inputs.

Ian
Ocean Hobo. SN96


Re: Fixed Prop installation.

Ian Park
 

Agree…
I used a 3 arm puller on my Santorin fixed prop and it wouldn’t budge. Three minutes with a blow torch and ‘Ping’…. Off it came. No grease, in fact I used a ‘Never Seize’ on it, which made sure the it went back on easily when I tightened the nut.

Ian
Ocean Hobo 96


Charisma’s owner a member?

Lance Leonard
 

We were walking the docks at Glen Cove Marina in Vallejo, CA and saw a Maramu. I love looking at boats similar to ours, inspiration for projects etc. If you own Charisma, or know who does we would love a tour. We are currently in Northern California while Minerva is on the hard in Maine getting a repower.
Lance Leonard 
S/V Minerva


Re: Raising Boot Stripe

Courtney Gorman
 

Olivier
Thank you so much for the important reminder 
Cheers 🥂 


On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:16 AM, Olivier Beaute via groups.io <atlanticyachtsurvey@...> wrote:

Hello everybody!

I don't like to do this but I think it's time for me to spoil the party. I will try to be straight forward.

Raising the waterline is not a very good idea, although I understand why some of you do it: the aft part of the hull's topsides gets fouled, on the white or red line area. It is only the consequence of the crew loading the vessel too much, or too much aft.
If you raise that line, you will probably load your boat even more. This is not good. Not only for the boat speed (motoring or sailing) but also because it changes the original design, especially about the standing rigging.
How is a standing rigging designed on a sailing boat? It is mainly designed according to the boat's displacement (weight).
If you load your boat too much, the forces that the standing rigging will face (especially in bad weather and the boat is pounding in the waves) will be much more than what it is designed for.

When surveying boats, I sometimes see too much additional equipment or stuff.
On a Super Maramu (I choose this example as it is most represented on this forum) I sometimes see:
-davits or stainless steel arches with solar panels (400 to 600W), one or two wind generators
-diving tank compressor with 2, 3 or 4 (or more...) tanks
-additional fuel tanks and jerrycans
-additional bilge pumps
-big fuel polishing systems
-two dinghies with two outboard engines (one big, one small)
-lots of spare parts (but also lots of old used parts that have not been discarded)
-fully stuffed book shelves
-additional hard dodgers
-staysail with furler
-3 or 4 anchors and tackle
-too many old mooring lines, or old running rigging that was not discarded when replaced
-two RADAR aerials

The first Super Maramus were designed with 5 100Ah batteries, a 80hp engine, a two cylinder 4kW generator, optionnal A/C, 60 liter 24V water-maker, small washing machine, no davits, no arches.
The recommended load of the equipment and crew was 2500 kg (not including fuel and water).
The last Super Maramus, with their 13 batteries, bigger generator and engine, bigger bow fitting, standard 3 A/Cs (sometimes 4, ask Joel...), 100 or 150 liter water-maker,
etc, allowed only 2000 kg.
With these loads, the original waterline was good.
If on your SM, the waterline is not good anymore, this simply means that it is overloaded, which can be sometimes dangerous.

Conclusion:
Before thinking of raising your waterline, try to estimate the weight of the additional equipment that is on board. The best way is to empty your boat from all the non-fixed equipments. You'll be surprised of the amount of material that you will put on the dock!
Then, try to estimate the weight of the fixed equipments (arches, solar panels, diving compressor, extra pumps and fuel systems).
If you find it above 2000 kg (for the SM2000), then you should discard some of these items (books are very heavy and damaged alternators or 10 sets of zincs-I swear I sometimes see this- are not necessary).
You can also decide to sail with only half the water tank if you have a good water-maker, which will give you 500 kg possibility.
Also don't forget to balance your load. On a SM2000, the additional standard equipments are located rather aft (engine, generator, batteries, etc..). So, don't forget to load the front cabin (what I usually see, strangely, is that the front cabin is very empty, compared to the cockpit and aft deck lockers).

Keeping your boat light will make you happy (and faster).

Olivier.




Re: Fixed Prop installation.

Bill Kinney
 

A couple of comments on installing a fixed prop (or any prop, actually!).  Be SURE that the prop sits tight on the shaft, and that the key does not hold it off. The best way to do this is to install the prop on the shaft WITHOUT the key, mark how far on the shaft it sits.  Pull it off, and the reinstall with the key in place and make sure that it goes just as far on. It is not unusual that new keys are too high, and the prop bottoms out on them before it is fully engaged with the shaft. If this is the case, file down the key until the prop sits as it should.

A propeller should be driven almost entirely by friction with the shaft, not so much by the key.  Having a good tight fit on the tapered part of the shaft is essential. If the prop is at all loose the key will be damaged, and the prop is at risk of coming off.  Especially when a tabbed over washer is used as the nut lock as is typical on these metric shafts.

There has been a long standing argument between people who know more than I do about greasing the shaft (or not) when installing the prop.  I doubt it really matters much one way or the other, but I do not use grease.

Finally, never, never, never use a hammer in place of a proper puller to remove a prop. If a yard worker does this, fire him on the spot. This is bad enough on a standard shaft drive, but could be deadly on the C-Drive.  The gears, bearings and housing are not made for this kind of shock loading. If a prop is really stuck and the puller is not getting it loose, get a bigger puller.  Failing that, heat the prop (hot!) with a torch, and then tap gently to loosen it while continuing to pull straight back as hard as your tools will allow.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: Hours of effort for 4YRLY/1,000HR service (YANMAR 4JH3-HTE)

Bill Kinney
 

David,

I can't comment on the valve service for the Yanmar, but I have pulled injectors on these engines, and that was a quick and easy job.  After 1000 hours they should be in excellent shape (unless you have had water in your fuel or other problem).  Testing them at a dedicated diesel shop should be pretty inexpensive, if they pass muster.

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: Raising Boot Stripe

 

Olivier,

Thanks! I am really glad that you said this! It needed to be said.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:16 AM Olivier Beaute via groups.io <atlanticyachtsurvey=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello everybody!

I don't like to do this but I think it's time for me to spoil the party. I will try to be straight forward.

Raising the waterline is not a very good idea, although I understand why some of you do it: the aft part of the hull's topsides gets fouled, on the white or red line area. It is only the consequence of the crew loading the vessel too much, or too much aft.
If you raise that line, you will probably load your boat even more. This is not good. Not only for the boat speed (motoring or sailing) but also because it changes the original design, especially about the standing rigging.
How is a standing rigging designed on a sailing boat? It is mainly designed according to the boat's displacement (weight).
If you load your boat too much, the forces that the standing rigging will face (especially in bad weather and the boat is pounding in the waves) will be much more than what it is designed for.

When surveying boats, I sometimes see too much additional equipment or stuff.
On a Super Maramu (I choose this example as it is most represented on this forum) I sometimes see:
-davits or stainless steel arches with solar panels (400 to 600W), one or two wind generators
-diving tank compressor with 2, 3 or 4 (or more...) tanks
-additional fuel tanks and jerrycans
-additional bilge pumps
-big fuel polishing systems
-two dinghies with two outboard engines (one big, one small)
-lots of spare parts (but also lots of old used parts that have not been discarded)
-fully stuffed book shelves
-additional hard dodgers
-staysail with furler
-3 or 4 anchors and tackle
-too many old mooring lines, or old running rigging that was not discarded when replaced
-two RADAR aerials

The first Super Maramus were designed with 5 100Ah batteries, a 80hp engine, a two cylinder 4kW generator, optionnal A/C, 60 liter 24V water-maker, small washing machine, no davits, no arches.
The recommended load of the equipment and crew was 2500 kg (not including fuel and water).
The last Super Maramus, with their 13 batteries, bigger generator and engine, bigger bow fitting, standard 3 A/Cs (sometimes 4, ask Joel...), 100 or 150 liter water-maker,
etc, allowed only 2000 kg.
With these loads, the original waterline was good.
If on your SM, the waterline is not good anymore, this simply means that it is overloaded, which can be sometimes dangerous.

Conclusion:
Before thinking of raising your waterline, try to estimate the weight of the additional equipment that is on board. The best way is to empty your boat from all the non-fixed equipments. You'll be surprised of the amount of material that you will put on the dock!
Then, try to estimate the weight of the fixed equipments (arches, solar panels, diving compressor, extra pumps and fuel systems).
If you find it above 2000 kg (for the SM2000), then you should discard some of these items (books are very heavy and damaged alternators or 10 sets of zincs-I swear I sometimes see this- are not necessary).
You can also decide to sail with only half the water tank if you have a good water-maker, which will give you 500 kg possibility.
Also don't forget to balance your load. On a SM2000, the additional standard equipments are located rather aft (engine, generator, batteries, etc..). So, don't forget to load the front cabin (what I usually see, strangely, is that the front cabin is very empty, compared to the cockpit and aft deck lockers).

Keeping your boat light will make you happy (and faster).

Olivier.




Re: Raising Boot Stripe

Olivier Beaute
 

Hello everybody!

I don't like to do this but I think it's time for me to spoil the party. I will try to be straight forward.

Raising the waterline is not a very good idea, although I understand why some of you do it: the aft part of the hull's topsides gets fouled, on the white or red line area. It is only the consequence of the crew loading the vessel too much, or too much aft.
If you raise that line, you will probably load your boat even more. This is not good. Not only for the boat speed (motoring or sailing) but also because it changes the original design, especially about the standing rigging.
How is a standing rigging designed on a sailing boat? It is mainly designed according to the boat's displacement (weight).
If you load your boat too much, the forces that the standing rigging will face (especially in bad weather and the boat is pounding in the waves) will be much more than what it is designed for.

When surveying boats, I sometimes see too much additional equipment or stuff.
On a Super Maramu (I choose this example as it is most represented on this forum) I sometimes see:
-davits or stainless steel arches with solar panels (400 to 600W), one or two wind generators
-diving tank compressor with 2, 3 or 4 (or more...) tanks
-additional fuel tanks and jerrycans
-additional bilge pumps
-big fuel polishing systems
-two dinghies with two outboard engines (one big, one small)
-lots of spare parts (but also lots of old used parts that have not been discarded)
-fully stuffed book shelves
-additional hard dodgers
-staysail with furler
-3 or 4 anchors and tackle
-too many old mooring lines, or old running rigging that was not discarded when replaced
-two RADAR aerials

The first Super Maramus were designed with 5 100Ah batteries, a 80hp engine, a two cylinder 4kW generator, optionnal A/C, 60 liter 24V water-maker, small washing machine, no davits, no arches.
The recommended load of the equipment and crew was 2500 kg (not including fuel and water).
The last Super Maramus, with their 13 batteries, bigger generator and engine, bigger bow fitting, standard 3 A/Cs (sometimes 4, ask Joel...), 100 or 150 liter water-maker,
etc, allowed only 2000 kg.
With these loads, the original waterline was good.
If on your SM, the waterline is not good anymore, this simply means that it is overloaded, which can be sometimes dangerous.

Conclusion:
Before thinking of raising your waterline, try to estimate the weight of the additional equipment that is on board. The best way is to empty your boat from all the non-fixed equipments. You'll be surprised of the amount of material that you will put on the dock!
Then, try to estimate the weight of the fixed equipments (arches, solar panels, diving compressor, extra pumps and fuel systems).
If you find it above 2000 kg (for the SM2000), then you should discard some of these items (books are very heavy and damaged alternators or 10 sets of zincs-I swear I sometimes see this- are not necessary).
You can also decide to sail with only half the water tank if you have a good water-maker, which will give you 500 kg possibility.
Also don't forget to balance your load. On a SM2000, the additional standard equipments are located rather aft (engine, generator, batteries, etc..). So, don't forget to load the front cabin (what I usually see, strangely, is that the front cabin is very empty, compared to the cockpit and aft deck lockers).

Keeping your boat light will make you happy (and faster).

Olivier.




Re: C drive transmission failure

Olivier Beaute
 

Hello Roman and Ira,

this C-drive has been running without oil for a while!!!
You can get access to the inside of the lower unit if you take down the front plate (where you see the big pin that enters the GRP keelstub), bolted with ALLEN screws.
You will probably need to get in touch with AMEL in order to buy the gears and bearings, together with the prop shaft bushing and seals.
If you are in an area with good machine shops, they will probably be able to make these gears (although they are complicate as helicoïdal bevel gears).

Thank you for these pictures. This is a very good example of what not to do (neglect the service of the AMEL C-drive).

Good luck.

Olivier.


Re: Super Maramu Heaving To sail combination?

karkauai
 

Paolo, yes, you do need chafe protection for the genoa sheet.  I would put a piece of PVC pipe and/or bamboo over the shroud, or permanently attach chafing gear to the sheet.
Kent

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


C drive transmission failure

Ira and Roman Morozov
 

We changed Volvo engine to Yanmar 4JH4 -TE 2 years ago.  We have not changed the transmission. Recently the transmission broke, we suppose that this happened because we have not done maintenance for a long time.

1. We found a gear failure in the first part of the transmission.  Picture below. Can you please tell me if anyone had the same problem?

2. We also want to evaluate the condition of the transmission in the second part.  How can we do that?  If we need to open it, how to do it? Pictures below.

Roman and Ira Morozov SM2000 #320 Ginger


Re: Hours of effort for 4YRLY/1,000HR service (YANMAR 4JH3-HTE)

David Vogel
 

Excellent - I see about 15 hours, 8 on the boat, and 7 in the workshop. This seems about right to my untrained eye (and experience to date). Thanks JB.

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of JB Duler <jbduler@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, 20 January 2022 at 12:47 pm
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Hours of effort for 4YRLY/1,000HR service (YANMAR 4JH3-HTE)

David, I just did that last year. I have attached the invoice. Take that as an example. That Yanmar shop screwed up and did not tighten the hose clamps on the vent loop, that caused major damage. I don't recommend them.

--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Hours of effort for 4YRLY/1,000HR service (YANMAR 4JH3-HTE)

JB Duler
 

David, I just did that last year. I have attached the invoice. Take that as an example. That Yanmar shop screwed up and did not tighten the hose clamps on the vent loop, that caused major damage. I don't recommend them.

--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med

3161 - 3180 of 64832