Date   

Re: Bow truster problem

 

Willem,

Agree!

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 09:10 Willem Kroes <kavanga@...> wrote:
Hello Slavko,

I suffered from the same problem three years ago . After may be 10 times of use after replacing the gears with the Amel kit, the gears were already worn out, This because the mechanic in Spain used the old cover or end cap and not the new one that came with the kit. This new one dis not fit. This was  a problem in the first place caused by Amel. The mechanic who used the old one in stead had tho be more vigilant in checking the amount of play because the old cover did not go inside as much as the new one. That results in too much of play on the gears. If the new end cap does not fit and you want to use the old one, the only way to do this correctly is by using shims to restrict the amount of play within the correct parameters.

Willem Kroes

SY Kavanga
SM #351
now in Licata on Sicily


Re: Amel lost its mast - D1?

Scott SV Tengah
 

I’m going to agree with Bruno here.

 

This may not be a popular opinion, but Amel is not perfect. I can tell you on my 54, there are definite design faults, directly in contradiction with ISO and ABYC.

I love my boat overall but I will be the first to admit that Amel screws up and while it’s tempting to defend your purchase, when you’re in the middle of the ocean and it’s raging and something breaks, your ego means very little.

 

How many Amels are out there with powered furling headsails? At least 400 SMs and around 200 54s and I don’t know how many 55s and 64s. Has anyone heard of one of these boats losing their mast due to a halyard wrap? Judging from how many damn Amels (ha happy to see you all) are here in French Polynesia, there have been many many sea miles sailed by those 600+ Amels, so I would guess that at least one would have such an issue. Further, how many non-Amel powered furling headsail boats are there out there? Dismasting is a major event and we’d certainly hear about it.

 

It’d be interesting to see the report. Was it done by a disinterested third party?

 

Now for the sake of discussion, let’s assume it was related to a halyard wrap.  I believe I read once that the 50 and 60 don’t come with the halyard swivel “horns”? Further, assuming it was related to a halyard wrap and the design is similar to the previous models, I would hope we can discuss and learn from this event to prevent this from happening to others vs. just blaming user error and moving on.

 

 

From: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bruno COTTE <cotte.bruno@...>
Reply-To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:47 AM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel lost its mast - D1?

 

Not logical 

You have fuse 

And such a problem doesn’t occur when you loose the forestay like this 

I don’t believe this conclusion 

Envoyé de mon iPhone



Le 28 avr. 2022 à 15:42, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt@...> a écrit :

The final investigative report is in.
The mast failure occurred because of a halyard wrap with the Genoa furler.
This is a known issue on any boat with a powered furler.


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Amel lost its mast - D1?

Bruno COTTE
 

Not logical 
You have fuse 
And such a problem doesn’t occur when you loose the forestay like this 
I don’t believe this conclusion 

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 28 avr. 2022 à 15:42, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt@...> a écrit :

The final investigative report is in.
The mast failure occurred because of a halyard wrap with the Genoa furler.
This is a known issue on any boat with a powered furler.


Re: Bow truster problem

Willem Kroes
 

Hello Slavko,

I suffered from the same problem three years ago . After may be 10 times of use after replacing the gears with the Amel kit, the gears were already worn out, This because the mechanic in Spain used the old cover or end cap and not the new one that came with the kit. This new one dis not fit. This was  a problem in the first place caused by Amel. The mechanic who used the old one in stead had tho be more vigilant in checking the amount of play because the old cover did not go inside as much as the new one. That results in too much of play on the gears. If the new end cap does not fit and you want to use the old one, the only way to do this correctly is by using shims to restrict the amount of play within the correct parameters.

Willem Kroes

SY Kavanga
SM #351
now in Licata on Sicily


Re: Amel lost its mast - D1?

Matt Salatino
 

The final investigative report is in.
The mast failure occurred because of a halyard wrap with the Genoa furler.
This is a known issue on any boat with a powered furler.


Re: ACMO RIGGING

Barry Connor
 

Hi Arnold,
Yes, I was very impressed with your new rigging when you showed me. Thank you for taking the time.
I have a quote from Caraibe Marine already and will be asking them to include those new beefed up stainless steel turn buckles. 
In the last 2 years I have seen Caraibe Marine change the rigging on a few Amels. They are very professional and experienced.
Very Best 

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54.  #17
Rodney Bay 
Saint Lucia 



On Apr 28, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Our 54  has just received new rigging from ACMO. It now has the beefed up shrouds as done by Amel on the last series of 54s. I also changed the lower shrouds on the mizzen from 7 to 8mm as I found them a bit stretchy. Rigging has been put on by Caraibes Marin in Martinique. They did an excellent job with professional measuring equipment and proper care for all the mounting points. The boat feels more secure with the rigging at proper tension and such.

ACMO did a great job with preparing the rigging. Only the triadic was a bit too long and had to be shortened by 10 cm.
The new turnbuckles are very nice, all stainless steel with bronze inserts for the threads, no chrome to fall off anymore. Caraibe Marine liked them so much they immediately ordered them for themselves as well!
The fact the prices increased is understandable, it seems prices for everything are going trough the roof at the moment. Thank you Putin and Covid….

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121


Re: ACMO RIGGING

Arno Luijten
 

Our 54  has just received new rigging from ACMO. It now has the beefed up shrouds as done by Amel on the last series of 54s. I also changed the lower shrouds on the mizzen from 7 to 8mm as I found them a bit stretchy. Rigging has been put on by Caraibes Marin in Martinique. They did an excellent job with professional measuring equipment and proper care for all the mounting points. The boat feels more secure with the rigging at proper tension and such.

ACMO did a great job with preparing the rigging. Only the triadic was a bit too long and had to be shortened by 10 cm.
The new turnbuckles are very nice, all stainless steel with bronze inserts for the threads, no chrome to fall off anymore. Caraibe Marine liked them so much they immediately ordered them for themselves as well!
The fact the prices increased is understandable, it seems prices for everything are going trough the roof at the moment. Thank you Putin and Covid….

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121


Re: Amel lost its mast - D1?

Arno Luijten
 

It does beg the question, was it ACMO rigging or not…

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Amel lost its mast - D1?

Joan Blaas
 
Edited

I am shivering when reading their story. This is absolutely the last thing you want to happen when sailing with your kids.


Re: File /Dessalator Technical Info/Dessalator Replacement of Membranes - detailed.pdf uploaded #file-notice

Porter McRoberts
 

This is genius. Same issue!!  Very Appreciated!!

Porter
A54-152 IBIS

On Apr 28, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Eric Freedman <kimberlite.ef@...> wrote:

If you are changing the membranes on you 160 watermaker you will find that lining up the outboard bolts on the support bracket requires a person a lot thinner than me. To make life easier in the future I cut the rear mounting bracket at the mounting bolt area into a “V” leaving the majority of the  bolt hole as original. That allows me to loosen up the rear bracket without removing the nut. I then just slide the whole assembly back in place when I reassemble.
 
Fair Winds
‘Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of rossirossix4
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2022 11:28 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] File /Dessalator Technical Info/Dessalator Replacement of Membranes - detailed.pdf uploaded #file-notice
 
This seems like a good place to post this.  I was impressed with one of  Riza's Emek Marine techs who did our membrane replacement while instructing us on the steps.  At one point he actually crawled in and around and behind the board that the battery chargers are mounted on to easily access the membrane frame from the rear.  Might be helpful to someone. Wish I'd snapped a pic. 

Bob and Suzanne     KAIMI SM 429 



Re: File /Dessalator Technical Info/Dessalator Replacement of Membranes - detailed.pdf uploaded #file-notice

Eric Freedman
 

If you are changing the membranes on you 160 watermaker you will find that lining up the outboard bolts on the support bracket requires a person a lot thinner than me. To make life easier in the future I cut the rear mounting bracket at the mounting bolt area into a “V” leaving the majority of the  bolt hole as original. That allows me to loosen up the rear bracket without removing the nut. I then just slide the whole assembly back in place when I reassemble.

 

Fair Winds

‘Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of rossirossix4
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2022 11:28 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] File /Dessalator Technical Info/Dessalator Replacement of Membranes - detailed.pdf uploaded #file-notice

 

This seems like a good place to post this.  I was impressed with one of  Riza's Emek Marine techs who did our membrane replacement while instructing us on the steps.  At one point he actually crawled in and around and behind the board that the battery chargers are mounted on to easily access the membrane frame from the rear.  Might be helpful to someone. Wish I'd snapped a pic. 

Bob and Suzanne     KAIMI SM 429


Re: ACMO RIGGING

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Bill,
Notwithstanding my last "tongue-in-cheek" post a few minutes ago that the breathtaking price increase of new ACMO rigging may encourage owners to defer replacement, let me push back a bit on your statement about "almost zero ... failures" with ACMO and that those are with 20 year rigging.

Our Santorin has had two failures of ACMO rigging:
  • A mizzen lower backstay broke with an explosive sounding BANG at the top of the lower swage at 17 years. (Yes, close to your 20 benchmark). We were under sail with a 15 kt broad reach in calm seas. We replaced all rigging with ACMO.
  • The second failure was in the new ACMO rigging just 10 years later when a mizzen backstay blew out, again, at the top of the lower swage and amazingly while the boat was sitting at the dock

I replaced all rigging with non-ACMO that last time, but only because of the shipping cost to the USA (and all lowers terminals are Sta-Locs, not swaged) This is not a knock on ACMO - I still think ACMO is excellent, although I really have no empirical reason to think that - I just have had a great relationship with them and trust their product, as does (did?) Amel. Next time they still will be my vendor of choice - if the price is right.

 Fwiw, Craig
--
Craig Briggs - s/v Sangaris / SN68  Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: ACMO RIGGING

David Vogel
 

Greetings all,

At the risk of starting a fiery debate (but my guess is that it will happen anyway, sooner, or later), one of the things that has crossed my mind since I replaced the standing rigging (ACMO, air-freighted to StMaarten) was, when it next falls due in another 10 years, will the acceptability of hi-mod fibres (such as Dyneema/Sprectra) for rigging by then have become of widespread acceptability?

I know of a few (non-AMEL) boats who are now already are going this route, moving away from SS stranded-wire or rod rigging. And I wonder if there are any AMEL owners out there who have also either already travelled this path, or who have done some serious research on the topic and would wish to share their insights.

Thanks in advance.

David
SM#396, Perigee
Whangarei

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Reply to: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, 28 April 2022 at 9:52 am
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] ACMO RIGGING

Nick,

Standing rigging has increased a lot over the past 4 years. Some boat manufacturers have chosen alternative and less costly suppliers. In a way, I can't blame Amel because how many new boat buyers truly understood the value of ACMO rigging? 

I saw non-ACMO standing rigging on an A50 in June 2021. I asked the owner if he knew the brand or if he knew why Amel changed. He had no knowledge. I immediately wrote ACMO and asked about this. I was told, "Our quality has always been as good as possible for us. We understand that we are quite expensive and we understand that sometimes our customers find other solutions." 

I replied to ACMO: "I am very saddened that Amel has chosen to use another standing rigging supplier. I understand that these things happen, but want you to know that I plan to stand with you and support the ACMO brand in my Amel Book, in my 24/7 Support of Amel owners, on my website, and in my Amel Training Courses."

Summary:
As most of you know in the last 40 years there have been almost zero ACMO standing rigging failures on Amels and this exists when too many Amel owners have sailed with 20-year-old standing rigging by ACMO. There is tremendous redundancy of standing rigging on most Amel models. I am aware of a Super Maramu with 20-year-old standing rigging that while under sail lost the starboard side Cap Shroud on the main. The owner furled the sails and motored into port where he had that single shroud replaced. I would never recommend sailing with standing rigging that old and certainly not recommend replacing just one piece.

I plan to continue recommending ACMO. I really do not know much about the new supplier of standing rigging to Amel.

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

 tel:+1 832-380-4970 | mailto:brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
http://www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
   



https://preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 2:56 PM Nicolas Klene via http://groups.io <laixoi=mailto:me.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Everyone
Just had a quote from ACMO this morning with bill’s negotiated 10% discount ,and it was up 20% from March at an eye watering 14610.9 € .
Apparently Amel does not use ACMO anymore for the newer boats like 50s & 60s ,anybody knows who they are using ?
All the best 
Nicolas
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


Re: ACMO RIGGING

 

Nick,

Standing rigging has increased a lot over the past 4 years. Some boat manufacturers have chosen alternative and less costly suppliers. In a way, I can't blame Amel because how many new boat buyers truly understood the value of ACMO rigging? 

I saw non-ACMO standing rigging on an A50 in June 2021. I asked the owner if he knew the brand or if he knew why Amel changed. He had no knowledge. I immediately wrote ACMO and asked about this. I was told, "Our quality has always been as good as possible for us. We understand that we are quite expensive and we understand that sometimes our customers find other solutions." 

I replied to ACMO: "I am very saddened that Amel has chosen to use another standing rigging supplier. I understand that these things happen, but want you to know that I plan to stand with you and support the ACMO brand in my Amel Book, in my 24/7 Support of Amel owners, on my website, and in my Amel Training Courses."

Summary:
As most of you know in the last 40 years there have been almost zero ACMO standing rigging failures on Amels and this exists when too many Amel owners have sailed with 20-year-old standing rigging by ACMO. There is tremendous redundancy of standing rigging on most Amel models. I am aware of a Super Maramu with 20-year-old standing rigging that while under sail lost the starboard side Cap Shroud on the main. The owner furled the sails and motored into port where he had that single shroud replaced. I would never recommend sailing with standing rigging that old and certainly not recommend replacing just one piece.

I plan to continue recommending ACMO. I really do not know much about the new supplier of standing rigging to Amel.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 2:56 PM Nicolas Klene via groups.io <laixoi=me.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Everyone
Just had a quote from ACMO this morning with bill’s negotiated 10% discount ,and it was up 20% from March at an eye watering 14610.9 € .
Apparently Amel does not use ACMO anymore for the newer boats like 50s & 60s ,anybody knows who they are using ?
All the best 
Nicolas
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


Re: ACMO RIGGING

Craig Briggs
 

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 02:55 PM, Nicolas Klene wrote:

Hi Everyone
Just had a quote from ACMO this morning with bill’s negotiated 10% discount ,and it was up 20% from March at an eye watering 14610.9 € .
Apparently Amel does not use ACMO anymore for the newer boats like 50s & 60s ,anybody knows who they are using ?
All the best 
Nicolas
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille

 Hi Nicolas,
That sounds like irrefutable scientific engineering evidence that your rigging will last 18 years, not 10. 
:-)
--
Craig Briggs - s/v Sangaris / SN68  Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: ACMO RIGGING

Nicolas Klene
 


Hi Everyone
Just had a quote from ACMO this morning with bill’s negotiated 10% discount ,and it was up 20% from March at an eye watering 14610.9 € .
Apparently Amel does not use ACMO anymore for the newer boats like 50s & 60s ,anybody knows who they are using ?
All the best 
Nicolas
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


Re: Bow truster problem

Slavko Despotovic
 

There were no instructions from Amel. Simply the cover is not usable. Will call Amel tomorrow and discus the problem.
Thank you.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

 

The problem is you used the old cover. It will absolutely give you this problem. 

The new cover would have held the axle (prop shaft) in the correct alignment. The old cover is a different thickness at the shaft which allowed the shaft to move laterally and allow the two gears to misalign. 

You will likely need a complete new kit. According to one of my clients, instructions from Amel are included with the kit about this issue. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 12:07 Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:
The round cover delivered from Amel didi not fit so I used the old one. Anyway I will have to do all over again. I might learn some more :)).
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

back then, I did not had issue between the electric motor and the shaft, the spins shown on the picture, look good. 

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 01:02:34 PM AST, Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:


That might be a problem as I made key thinner. I have replaced all parts inside (used a kit from Amel) and had a problem with key not fitting in. This is answer to situation that at first it worked and then not. That happened after few seconds. Probably key broke :((.
One more question. There is no way that there is problem between electrical motor and mechanical part of truster?
To answer to Bill. I did all the maintenance. 
So I will have to do it again.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

Slavko Despotovic
 

The round cover delivered from Amel didi not fit so I used the old one. Anyway I will have to do all over again. I might learn some more :)).
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia

2561 - 2580 of 65575