Date   

Re: AML 54 fridge cooling

David Crisp
 

Many thanks Vladan

--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Re: Worldwide insurance

Trevor Lusty
 

Hi Bob,
           Best wishes and fair winds for your circumnavigation. Topsail will entertain global proposals. Keep in mind that whoever you go with, the laws and courts  and language of the country where the policy is written is where you have to deal with in the event of a contested claim.

Regards,

Trevor Lusty
Ireland


Re: modified stern railing on 54 to carry line drums

Jose Venegas
 

Craig I am sold on it
Can you post a couple of pix?

Thanks a a lot
Jose Gabriel Venegas
Ipanema SM2K 278
Cartagena de Indias


Re: Worldwide insurance

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Bob

Nice to see you guys headed off, all the very best with it. We would do it again in a heartbeat if we could!

As David mentions, your insurance options are now somewhat limited by the Flag of your yacht, your route, citizenship, and where you have residence.

In our case, we purchased the boat in the Canary Islands and kept Island Pearl II UK flagged.

We chose Pantanius in the UK and remained with them for the first Atlantic and Pacific crossings back to Australia, and then for 7 years of local sailing. They were excellent. 

When it came time to circumnavigate we moved to Velos Global Yacht (UK) since Pantanius brought in quite a few new limitations in 2016/7, especially in relation to solo sailing coverage, cruising zones in the north Indian Ocean at that time, and also zero coverage for Pirate attacks at all. Velos was far better and allowed me quite extensive solo sailing allowances at the time after negotiation, however, we had no claims to test their policy, but unfortunately, when we reached Madagascar their renewal quote arrived and was almost precisely double the policy cost!!  This forced us to madly shop around and also was a contributory factor for us deciding to sail around the Cape of Good Hope well ahead of the safe season in order to start a new policy in the Atlantic Ocean, plus get a full Caribbean season in too. 

In Capetown, it was between TopSail and YYachts and we were very fortunate to get Y Yacht coverage due to our UK address back then. This covered us across the South Atlantic, around the Caribbean, through Panama, and home. They were exceptional, with a great team who were easy to communicate with as we changed cruising zones, required Panama crossing coverage last minute, and crossed the Pacific all the way home. 

Two other points to note: 
1) For Personal Accident etc insurance we used a Top Sail policy all the way around the world. This was not cheap but excellent and was also accepted for Chagos entry (along with DAN insurance). I had reason to claim on this policy after ending up in a hospital in The Maldives for 3 weeks after replacing a bow thruster underwater in what we later discovered was extremely dirty stagnant industrial and sewer water.
2) We intended to go through the Red Sea but absolutely no insurer would insure us, or any of the others at the time for this ... hopefully that has since changed with the pirate risk now no longer as risky? 

Best of luck with it, you are in for a real treat!

Colin
ex SM2K Island Pearl II
Brisbane

On Sat, May 7, 2022 at 6:49 AM Ken Uber <kenneth.uber@...> wrote:

I have cover with Pantaenius Australia Pty Ltd. · 33/6 Jubilee Av. · Warriewood · NSW 2102. Which is currently limited to south of lat 26 deg, and when questioned about further they said just let us know and we’ll amend accordingly.

 

 

Regards

 

Ken Uber

SY Eleuthera SM #007

Williamstown Australia

0411096804

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Grey via groups.io
Sent: Friday, 6 May 2022 9:58 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Worldwide insurance

 

Hi Guys, covid is over, borders are opening, so I start my circumnavigation of the globe this Sunday from Melbourne, my current Australian insurer won’t entertain more than 200 miles from Australian waters (Club Marine) so who do we Amelians recommend? 

Bob Grey
Renaissance 3
Amel 55 #25.



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: AML 54 fridge cooling

Vladan SV PAME
 

Hi David,

you can buy Barnacle Buster in Greece. https://www.superyachtchandlery.gr/product-page/barnacle-buster-1-gallon

Best Regards,
--
Vladan

A54 #157
SV PAME


Re: Worldwide insurance

Ken Uber
 

I have cover with Pantaenius Australia Pty Ltd. · 33/6 Jubilee Av. · Warriewood · NSW 2102. Which is currently limited to south of lat 26 deg, and when questioned about further they said just let us know and we’ll amend accordingly.

 

 

Regards

 

Ken Uber

SY Eleuthera SM #007

Williamstown Australia

0411096804

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Grey via groups.io
Sent: Friday, 6 May 2022 9:58 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Worldwide insurance

 

Hi Guys, covid is over, borders are opening, so I start my circumnavigation of the globe this Sunday from Melbourne, my current Australian insurer won’t entertain more than 200 miles from Australian waters (Club Marine) so who do we Amelians recommend? 

Bob Grey
Renaissance 3
Amel 55 #25.


Re: modified stern railing on 54 to carry line drums

Craig Briggs
 

We carry a Fortress FX37 near the stern on the inside of the port side railing with an Ancorlina spool of woven cord rode mounted just aft of it, also inside the railing. Really simple. Like Martin, we use it regularly - I'd say almost weekly whilst cruising. 
  • If you've ever had your boat roll uncomfortably at anchor, either from a wrap-around swell or the wind dying, leaving you to wallow, the stern anchor will keep you pointed into the swell, as several have noted. It will open up many borderline anchorages you may have dismissed as too rolly. A classic is Chubb Cay in the bight just north of Chub Point - a dreadful gunnel-to-gunnel wraparound roll. Cabo Sao Vicente off Gigante is another and, course, the Galapagos and others mentioned. But any fairly open anchorage is a candidate - lately for us, in Long Island Sound and the Chesapeake, where the night wind dies and an annoying swell starts its rock and roll. Using the stern anchor greatly expands your choices so you may be "far from the Madding crowd".
  • If you're in a tidal estuary, no worries about the anchor having to reset 180° with the current change. Far superior than a "Bahamian" mooring, imho, as there is no risk of anchor rodes twisting together with current shifts. 
  • If you want to anchor just off a narrow channel and not worry about swinging into the channel the stern anchor is the trick. Same for anchoring near a shallows. (Assuming calm-ish weather.)
  • If a storm is coming and you're headed into an anchorage, it's easy to get your primary anchor down, then unshackle the Fortress - the self-proclaimed "World's Strongest Anchor" - carry it forward, shackle it onto a second bow rode, and set it as the second anchor, if that's what you want.
Easy to deploy from the stern - set the bow anchor with the length of rode you want for the depth you're in. Then let out that much additional rode as you motor backwards to keep the bow anchor rode snug. Now simply drop the stern anchor straight down - no dinghy needed!  Take up on the bow rode to its proper length whilst letting out the stern rode and setting it at the proper length. Take up on the bow anchor so both anchors are well set and gently pulling on each other.

To retrieve just reverse the process, letting out bow anchor rode and then bringing the stern anchor up first - you'll be pulling straight up on it making it a cinch to break out (well, once in a while I have to put it on the genoa winch - that Fortress can really get set!).
 
For mounting, ours is simply resting sideways against the rail and lifeline with the tipping palm/mud plate hooking perfectly over the lifeline taking most of the weight (with a plastic tube over that section of lifeline for protection), the bottom end of the stock (tubular crosspiece) rests on deck (the anchor being sideways) with a rubber cap to protect the deck and a velcro strap to the stanchion; the top of the stock also has a velcro strap holding it to the top rail. The end of the fluke rests on the deck toward the stern, with a "crutch tip" on the end and a light lashing to a stanchion.
--
Cheers, Craig Briggs - s/v Sangaris / SN68  Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Worldwide insurance

David Vogel
 

Hi Bob,

We're Australian registered, which limits our access to offshore insurers, unfortunately.

Short answer: We use Pantaenius Australia.

Best,

David
SM$396, Perigee
Still deep into the 5yr refit
Whangarei, NZ

+++
Long answer: we use Panto-AUS, as this is who we started out with and, with the note of no claims to date - touch wood, we've been generally happy with them.

That is, apart from a late notice on the last renewal, of the requirement for an out-of-water survey. When advised that this was not practicable (having just departed from where we could have hauled out) they were flexible to accommodate a re-issue of the policy, with the caveat that in the interim any loss, or consequential loss, that would (?could?) have resulted as a consequence of a fault that would have been identified in the survey, would not been covered. Yes, this presents a hole in policy cover as big as a fleet of AMELs but, as the saying increasingly goes, 'it is what it is'.

However, offset against this, is that our main foreseen insurable risks are actually lightning or weather-related damage, or total constructive loss due to acts of God, such as collision, hitting an uncharted obstruction (container, bommie, reef, atoll), of any other "stuff happens" thing. Basically, because we do everything reasonably practicable to ensure that we will never need to make a case about maintenance practices, or aspects of seaworthiness, we were reasonably comfortable that we would not be in a position of needing to make a claim as a consequence for something that any survey might pick up. That said, we welcome having a surveyor on-board, to pick his (or her) brains about what they see, and who to go to get stuff fixed. An example here was a suggestion that, when the front and side Perspex windscreens are next due for replacement, a suggestion to consider 8mm toughened glass - longer life, roughly equivalent cost, and stronger.


From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Grey via groups.io" <renaissanceiii@...>
Reply to: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Friday, 6 May 2022 at 11:57 pm
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Worldwide insurance

Hi Guys, covid is over, borders are opening, so I start my circumnavigation of the globe this Sunday from Melbourne, my current Australian insurer won’t entertain more than 200 miles from Australian waters (Club Marine) so who do we Amelians recommend? 

Bob Grey
Renaissance 3
Amel 55 #25.


Re: anods unusual wearout

Mark Erdos
 

 Bill K, Not all Amels were made with the MAS system installed.

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 


On 5/4/2022 2:18 AM, Bill Kinney wrote:
Greg,

You have a serious stray current problem if your anodes are disappearing that quickly. This is very important to fix. Once your anodes are destroyed, the next thing to go will be other underwater metals. If there is enough current flow, very serious damage can occur very quickly (in weeks, not months!). Ordinary galvanic corrosion is a slow process.  Stray currents accelerate this by many orders of magnitude.

Somewhere on the boat you have an electrical connection between the battery and the bonding system that should not be there. Amel installed the "MAS" light to help find this problem.

The anode on the bowthruster that was not destroyed is not properly connected to the bonding system, but should be.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Simpson Bay, Sint Maarten


Re: Martinique to Newport

Ken Smith
 

Email sent.

Regards,
Ken Smith
M202 Bon Edda


On May 5, 2022, at 7:59 PM, Miles <milesbid@...> wrote:

Hello all,
Once again Ladybug will be sailing from Martinique to Newport, RI.  I plan to leave Martinique on the 20th May, and I would like one more crew person.  The other crew person has made this trip with me several times. If you would like to join me on this voyage, please send an email tp milesbid at gmail.com.

Miles

S/Y Ladybug,,SM 216,  le Marin, Martinique


Re: Stress crack main sheet boom attachment Maramu

karkauai
 

Kristy is an SM, her forwardmost attachment point on the boom is where a line goes from the base of the mast to the boom. It's where a vang would be attached and is there I presume to keep the boom from lifting in an accidental jybe.
--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Re: Amel lost its mast - D1?

Bob Grey
 

Hmm, happened to me just after I brought Renaissance 3, the fitted Genaker Halyard (still after 7 years,I  have never raised this sail) came loose and wrapped around the Genoa as I was furling, by the time the fuse stopped the motor, the fore stay was badly birdcaged  and I replaced it. So it can happen, the Genaker halyard is still fitted but only used as a backup climbing halyard. I check it’s tension often as not to repeat my expensive mistake.


Bob Grey

Renaissance 3
Amell 55 #25


Re: Worldwide insurance

Dean Gillies
 
Edited

Bob,
You might want to try Topsail Insurance. Stella is Australian registered and we found Charlotte Fenn from Topsail to be very helpful for insurance coverage in Europe.

 

Sydney
43 Baroona Road, Northbridge. NSW 2063

Phone:             02 9188 7828

Email:               charlotte@...

Website:           www.topsailinsurance.com.au

 

Cheers
--
Dean Gillies
SV Stella *****,  Amel 54-154

PS: Pantaneius also offered coverage for Australian Registered vessels, but their pricing and restrictions were less attractive for us. Maybe they are better for world-wide coverage options.


Worldwide insurance

Bob Grey
 

Hi Guys, covid is over, borders are opening, so I start my circumnavigation of the globe this Sunday from Melbourne, my current Australian insurer won’t entertain more than 200 miles from Australian waters (Club Marine) so who do we Amelians recommend? 

Bob Grey
Renaissance 3
Amel 55 #25.


Re: drop LiFePo4 batteries vs LiFePo4 cells in a bundled pack #solution

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Scott,
Wading into the weeds ... :-)

Hitting the 4V limit is even more curious.

You are correct that the LFP cells will "limit" current as they approach a full charge... however they do not cut this off completely and will continue to accept charge (and increase voltage) beyond your 3.55V absorption voltage per cell setting. This is what pushes their voltage up towards the 4V HV disconnect. The job of the BMS is to make sure this does not happen ... so why is it happening? My per-cell absorption voltage set point is 3.58V and I have never had a cell rise above this level during balancing (with DVCC active). 

It seems that your cell balancers are not providing sufficient bleed-off to stop the voltage of the highest cell from rising further? The (passive) cell balancing circuits provide a bypass current path for those cells which have reached the high voltage set point. You are relying on the cell-pack to self-limit current, maybe with its cell-balancers that's not enough and so the highest cell voltage continues to rise?  7 cells with an average of 3.48V and one cell at 4V is still under the 28.4V shutdown. Maybe Victron realised that and introduced DVCC to address the issue? 

Also I don't know enough detail about the Victron BMS to understand exactly how it deals with batteries in series, but could it be possible that it does not deal with imbalance in series pairs?  What does the BMS do when it finds one battery at 14.8V  and the other at 13.75V? Does it simply shut down the charging? What is the function of the daisy-chain connections between batteries? Is it monitoring only or is it controlling the balancing?

Sorry I don't know enough detail about how the Victron BMS operates so I've got more questions than answers, but hopefully the questions are food for thought.  Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with a system which activated high-voltage disconnects in the normal course of charging. 

Cheers

--
Dean Gillies
SV Stella *****,  Amel 54-154


Re: drop LiFePo4 batteries vs LiFePo4 cells in a bundled pack #solution

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Jose,
Great advice, the 24V batteries are much preferable to the 12V batteries.  The balancing process (I don't like using the term 'equalisation' in connection with LFP batteries!) is simpler and more reliable as you describe, also they provide better redundancy. If you use 12V batteries to make a 24V/400Ah bank then you have 4 strings (4x series-connected pairs). Any battery disconnecting will cause a 25% reduction in capacity, whereas a 24V/400Ah bank using 8x24V batteries to get the same capacity will lose only 12.5% capacity when one battery disconnects.

I know that Battleborn and Relion both produce 24V/50Ah batteries.  Last time I checked, Transporter (who rebadge Battleborn batteries for the EU market) had not obtained certification in Europe for the 24V/50A model. They may now have done that.  There are many other "manufacturers" since "drop-in" LFP batteries are very easy to assemble. There are only a handful of cell manufacturers (all Chinese) and a whole range of BMS options available to build in.  However sticking with the reputable manufacturers should give confidence that the batteries have been assembled with components (internal wiring, terminals etc) correctly rated for the product.

Cheers
Dean Gillies
SV Stella *****,  Amel 54-154


Re: AML 54 fridge cooling

David Crisp
 

Ian, Judy,
I'm suspecting my refrigeration cooling circuit needs a clean out.  Can you buy Rydlyme in Greece?  I'm currently in Preveza.
--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Re: drop LiFePo4 batteries vs LiFePo4 cells in a bundled pack #solution

David Vogel
 

Re: power produced by wind generators

Our actual stats - Rutland1200 (400W) - since installation SXM: 17,443Ah (at nominal 24v) produced in 24,113 operating hours || ~420kWh produced.

Which is, to be honest, somewhat less than what I thought we'd see long-term. However, I think this is the result of the wind-gens' MPPT throttling output when the solar MPPT is putting out at bulk/absorption voltages (or when the same happens using the genset/shore-power->battery chargers, or the engine-driven high-output alternator).

In any event, with our cost of ~USD2,500- installed, the resulting cost of wind-produced electricity is running at ~$6- per kWh (and slowly falling).

Nevertheless, I am glad to have installed the windgen as, with windspeeds >15kts apparent (which typically coincides with grey/overcast conditions and reduced production from the solar array), the windgen starts to produce enough to offset the additional 'underway' loads of A/P and N2K sensors/AIS/VHF/Radar & chartplotter. On the recent passage Fiji to NZ, with 8 days of overcast @ AWS>22knots, we didn’t need to run the genset at all; although did so nevertheless every 24-48 hours when in continuous large seas, in order to reduce the potential for issues arising from possible water entry via the exhaust.

Best,

David
SM#396, Perigee
Whangarei, NZ


From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...>
Reply to: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Friday, 6 May 2022 at 1:35 pm
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] drop LiFePo4 batteries vs LiFePo4 cells in a bundled pack #solution

Thank you very much Jose!
Your post , I think, answers all my questions, in a very well sorted manner.
My key concerns are answered by using the Victron monitor to turn the battery charger on and off, and the alternator protector, which I was unaware of.
Many thanks
Cheers
Alan

Elyse SM437


Re: drop LiFePo4 batteries vs LiFePo4 cells in a bundled pack #solution

Alan Leslie
 

Thank you very much Jose!
Your post , I think, answers all my questions, in a very well sorted manner.
My key concerns are answered by using the Victron monitor to turn the battery charger on and off, and the alternator protector, which I was unaware of.
Many thanks
Cheers
Alan
 
Elyse SM437


Re: drop LiFePo4 batteries vs LiFePo4 cells in a bundled pack #solution

Jose Venegas
 

Scott,
I agree that this is the kind of project that needs a good understanding of the system before jumping into it.  As far as I know, each drop-in Battleborn battery has its own BMS that works independently of the rest batteries in the bank.  In a series-parallel array as in most AMELS if one of the batteries shuts down it affects the other battery in series and transfers the current to the other 3 sets of series batteries.   I don't know how to detect such an event other than by noting a reduction 0f 25% in the amount of amps-hour that you can introduced into the system from a discharged state to full charge.
This brings however something relevant for those considering drop-in batteries.  As in your system, a period of equalization at high voltage is required to bring all the cells of a battery to the max degree of charge.  However, any given battery (drop-in or not) has always several cells in series to generate the desired voltage.   If the cells in each path are not carefully selected to have similar characteristics, as Battleborn does,   during equilibration the cells with higher internal resistance could be exposed to a higher voltage than others. So, even if the total equilibration voltage does not exceed the recommended one, over time this could result in the early failure of those cells.  It is for that reason that Battleborn creates its batteries selecting cells with similar internal resistance for each series pathway.
The issue also occurs if the 12-volt batteries you put in series have different internal resistance.  When you try to equilibrate the batteries at 28.4 volts one of them may have, say 15 volts and the other one 13.4 volts and eventually the BMS of one of them will shut down preventing the second one from equilibrating.    The smart BMV 712 has an input that you can use to measure the voltage between the two batteries and evaluate the difference in charging voltage, giving an alarm if it exceed a given %.  By the way, this is a problem of any kind of battery but is more critical for lithium than acid-lead batteries which don't need a BMS.  In fact, Victron makes a gadget ( Battery Balancer) that at high levels of charge it shunts current to the less charged battery when the difference in voltage between them exceeds a certain percentage.  I had purchased one of them and was using it with my previous set of AGMs batteries when it alerted me when one of the batteries in the bank went bad.
Now, when I was buying my set of lithium batteries I was asked if I wanted the units of 24 volts 50 amp-hours or those of 12 volts 100 amp-hours.  I did not think about this problem at the time and bought the 12 volts to be able to use the same cables I had and avoid the extra cost of buying new ones.    Initially, I connected the BMV 712 to measure the middle voltage in one set of series batteries.   To my surprise, I noted that at the end of a fast charge, (with 160 amp) as the total accepted current by the bank dropped a difference in voltage developed between the two monitored batteries.  Alarmed I call Battleborn and showed them the problem. They suggested that I tried to pair the batteries in series to have similarly charged voltage.  I did so and asked if it was worth using the Battery Balancer that I was originally told I did not need in lithium batteries because they had a balancer in the BMS.  After some research, they said it was OK to use it, which I did.  For a set of 4 battery branches in parallel, they recommend either buying one Balancer for each parallel branch or connecting all middle points together and having the balancer take care of monitoring and maintaining this voltage.  Effectively having the 4 lower batteries in parallel and connected to the 4 upper batteries also in parallel.  I have been using this for a couple of months and noted during the first equalization the balancer was working hard to keep the middle voltage in the middle.  Since then, the middle voltage has deviated less and less and It seems the system is now back in balance.
IN CONCLUSION:  when buying a new set of drop-in batteries it is best to buy the 24 volts and put them in parallel.  Since during manufacture each series of cells are preselected, the system will not have the unbalance problem I observed.  However, if you don't want to spend the extra money of making new cables, I recommend that you select pairs of batteries that match their charge and install a battery Balancer!
Hope this helps and is not too confusing. 

To your second question, the answer depends on where your boat is.  When Ipanema was in Bocas del Toro, Panama, I got nothing out of it.  However, when we were in San Andres, where it always blows over 20 knots, the superwind made a difference on rainy days.  Here in Cartagena, it is rare when it blows more than 15 knots but in the Rosario islands (3 hours south of Cartagena) it can blow over twenty all afternoon and part of the night.  I just noted that  23 knots give only 160 wats and I have the wind generator on top of my mizzen mast!  So, knowing what I know now, I would not recommend buying one unless you are in a  place like Sand Andres.

Jose Gabriel Venegas
Ipanema SM2K 278
Cartagena, Colombia

 

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