Date   

Re: [Amel] Insurance

john martin <symoondog@...>
 

Kent is right, we got a very good quote from Keenan, and we got several quotes before deciding. See our earlier post on "Boat Insurance". We have had the IMIS Jackline policy for the past several years, and it was fine at the time, but it no longer met our needs. It pays to shop around every few years as your cruising situation evolves.

Ruth
MOON DOG SM #248



To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: karkauai@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 15:31:31 -0800
Subject: [Amel] Insurance






I think it was John and Ruth on MoonDog that also called them and got a good quote, Paul. The company is Keenan Marine in Ardsley, NY. Telephone 800 892 1554. Insurance@KeenanMarine.com My contact was Stephan Rathsack stephan@keenanmarine.com but I'm not sure he still works there. My policy was actually $3790 in 2009 and didn't go up in 2010.
Good luck, let me know if it works out well for you.
Kent
SM243
KRISTY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Chris Smither <yachtakwaaba@...>
 

Hi all,
     Having just moved "ashore" after nearly 10 years of living aboard - we still have the Santorin - I have found that I grossly underestimated the amount of "little" maintenance jobs that you both do, every day, almost without noticing. These are jobs that my irreverent brother calls "fettling"
This means that without you really noticing lots of small problems get solved before they become big ones, whereas if you only get on the boat once or twice a week.......need I say more.
 Thus I believe that your maintenance costs are very much lower if you live aboard. And, dare I say it  that is another reason a boat is a "she" - you neglect them at your peril! (loud groan from Christine in the background).

Mike & Chris SN 27


Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

Hello all we as members of SSCA which we should all be we get a deal from Al
Golden at Jack Line. Our insurance for being the Annapolis area is less then
2100.... with the SSCA and Power Squad discounts.
Richard on SM 209 For Sale





________________________________
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@rocketmail.com>
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 4:27:06 PM
Subject: Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost




Hello Kent, this is really reasonable insurance. I have own boats for the last
6 years, but no sailboat. US waters will be fine for the first 4 years. My
problem is that I live near Houston, TX… so in Hurricane area. But could you
please forward me the insurance company you are using. Thanks in advance,
sincerely, Alexandre 713-412-6704

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 12:19 PM



On insurance, Alex, I am spending $3600 per year as a new owner of SM243, never
having owned a sailboat before. I am limited to sailing in and around US and
Canadian waters, all of the Caribbean and S America except the waters of Cuba,
Haiti, and the Domican Republic. I have to be north of GA/FL border or south of
Grenada during the hurricane season. It will cost more when I do a transoceanic
voyage, but by that time I should have enough experience to allow for lower
rate.
Kent

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@rocketmail.com> wrote:

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Cc: laetitiaii@yahoo.ca
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 9:51 AM



Dear Serge, I am very happy to have your feedback as the Mango seems more in my
budget. If I am not mistaking the Nirvana is an electric in-mast furling, does
it work well? Are you happy with it? I read Amel went on designing their
in-house in-mast furling…


You mentioned your Mango is in Martinique during hurricane season, could you
please let me know how much is your insurance (just the percentage), my research
tells me (in the US, near Houston, TX) for 25 year old boat, I will pay 3% per
year. So for example for 200,000 will be 6,000 per year.


I am glad to read your opinion on Amel having the lowest maintenance cost.
After being on a Super Maramu, I love the space, the concept, equipments, etc.
but they seem quite expensive to up-keep and I feel like a less sophisticated or
smaller Maramu or Mango would be less financially stressful to own.


For information here is the intended goal:
-A year from now: purchasing the vessel. Live aboard right away.
- The next 4 years, “local” (day or weekend) sailing to fix the bugs and put the
vessel in excellent sailing condition.

-Then the following 10 years, slowing sailing around South America then
eventually back to Europe; sail for 2 or 3 days then anchor for 2 weeks to a
month.


Regarding the costs: I don’t want to be stressed about expenses. I will be fine
spending $18,000 (average) per year on maintenance (in addition to the $6,000
Marina slip, $6,000 insurance and fuel), but I don’t want to purchase a vessel
which end up costing $30,000 per years on maintenance alone.


I heard about the Pierpont Morgan expression: “If you have to ask how much it
costs, you can't afford it”.


Thanks again for taking the time to respond, I truly appreciate all of the
responses so far. Sincerely, Alexandre

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca> wrote:

From: Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 12:48 AM



Hi,

Maintenance cost vary from year to year but 10% of the value does represent a
fair amount for my 1985 Mango. I do a lot of the work, but depending of where
the boat is, competent help is sometimes difficult to find or parts are more or
less expensive.

While in Spain in 2006, I found that Transatlantic Diesel in the US offered the
best price for spare pumps for my Perkins main engine and this included
transportation fee by Fed Ex. However the Fed Ex delivery person did not find
the boat in the marina where I had been for 3 months and simply returned the
parts to the US, charging return fee to the sender. I had to repay again twice
the transportation fee to get the parts that I had already paid... the cost for

the parts became horrendous!

This year I have to replace the Onan Genset as well as most of my standing
rigging. As an experienced sailor I have assured that the rigging has been
closely inspected and replaced where it was needed. However the surveyor and a
professional rigger refuse to give any certification for rigging 10 year old or
more, and the insurer which accept coverage for my boat in Martinique during
hurricane season refuses to cover the boat unless the rigging is changed by one
that can be certified. On the other hand the experienced rigger
consulted advised me that the Nirvana (Swiss) rigging used on my boat is the
best - but Nirvana engraved a serial no and the date of manufacture on every
part...

Meanwhile, it is not uncommon for riggers in the Caribeans to use cheap China
made parts and wire to replace riggings...

I have owned saiboats for the last 45 years, sailed a bit and, in my opinion,
Amel boats have a lower maintenance cost than comparable vessels with similar
equipment. The hull, the rigging, the main engine, the liquid circuits, the
electrical wiring and electronic components are not only first quality from the
outset, but usually the installation is sturdy and practical.

On the other hand, if the request by Alexandre is made because he fears
maintenance fees are a serious concern. I would suggest that he should then be
concerned by the size of the model of Amel chosen and the level of
sophistication of the boat.

SM or Mango and Maramu were built as reliable world cruisers handled by a couple

of young retiree. For most sailors, the boat builders industrie has determined
that the boat will sail about 15 days per year... and after docking my boat in
le Vieux Port of Marseille for 2 months, I beleive that 15 days of sailing is
highly exagerated for local boatowner. So if maintenance costs are an issue, a
owner should first be determining what is his intended use of the boat.

My Mango has more than 220gal of fuel capacity in two reservoirs. This is not
only useless for sunday sailors but also for those who can access fuel on a
days' notice, it is however most conforting in ocean crossings and South Pacific

island cuising.

Finally, with due respect for Alexandre to whom this comment is not directed,
one could recall the harsh comment made by a Rolls Royce car saleman who was
asked about the fuel cost for the car by a prospective client: Its too expensive

for you!

Serge, V&#92; Opera Mango#51

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Insurance

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello again Kent, thank you very much for the information, this is really a great price.  Sincerely, Alexandre 713-412-6704

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Amel] Insurance
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 5:31 PM


 



I think it was John and Ruth on MoonDog that also called them and got a good quote, Paul.  The company is Keenan Marine in Ardsley, NY. Telephone 800 892 1554. Insurance@KeenanMarine.com  My contact was Stephan Rathsack stephan@keenanmarine.com but I'm not sure he still works there.  My policy was actually $3790 in 2009 and didn't go up in 2010.
Good luck, let me know if it works out well for you.
Kent
SM243
KRISTY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Insurance

karkauai
 

I think it was John and Ruth on MoonDog that also called them and got a good quote, Paul.  The company is Keenan Marine in Ardsley, NY. Telephone 800 892 1554. Insurance@KeenanMarine.com  My contact was Stephan Rathsack stephan@keenanmarine.com but I'm not sure he still works there.  My policy was actually $3790 in 2009 and didn't go up in 2010.
Good luck, let me know if it works out well for you.
Kent
SM243
KRISTY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Re : Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Serge, I didn’t know Nirvana went down… do you think this is a problem to get parts? 
Would you mind to forward me the information of your French insurer?  As I mentioned, my boat will be locate near Houston for the first 4 years.  Yes I visited http://www.amelcaramel.net I love the site! 
 
Personally I really want a dish washer (I just don’t like to do dishes).  I would prefer having a (cloth) washer but could use the marina’s washer/dryers.
How come your Mango is on the hard?  Just for the winter?  How long have you own your Mango?  Happy with her? Is there anything you don’t like in Amel or the Mango in particular?  Anything I should watch for before purchasing a Mango or Amel? 
 
Thanks again for your feedback.  Sincerely, Alexandre

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca> wrote:


From: Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re : Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 12:29 PM


 



Hi Alexandre,

The Nirvana rigging co went bust, I believe the asset and equipment was
purchased by Amel. The Nirvana furling system is very efficient, extremely
sturdy and low maintenance. In my opinion it is sturdier than the current
rigging, as may be observed from the section of the booms and masts.

Insurance: I did not renew the insurance I had with Yachtlink (2,5k€ per year)
because they refuse to cover if I left the boat in Martinique during hurricane
season. I presently  pay 784€ for civil liability coverage only (ie third party)
from a French insurer , until I change my rigging, then I should be able to get
coverage for my loss. Meanwhile, as an added security while on the hard, I
added  4 x 14+ or- ft crutches which are similar to those used by yards in the
south of France to resist the very strong (100+km/h) winds referred to as
Mistral. These crutches are fixed with 1 inch steel pins in the chain-plate
holes intended to be used for lifting the boat with a crane and chains. Since
these crutches extend some 4 to 5 feet from the sides of the hull, the
mechanical resistance of the boat to the wind is greatly enhanced.
 
As for the Amel model fitting your navigation plan, you will find that, the
bigger the boat - the bigger the problems and comfort aboard has a price.

I have a dishwasher aboard that I never use and it takes up some of my limited
galley space... On the other hand, I greatly enjoy my clothes washer- I had to
replace it this year... according to my calculation, at 750€, it will take more
than 7 years to recuperate its cost out of expenses for using laundromats or
other laundry services, and I still have to do the washing; and then, depending
on its use, the clothe washer is not a marine item conceived for salt water
conditions, it does not last longer than 7 years before requiring repairs...but
I do not have to get to the laundry or wait until I have enought dirty clothes
for one machine etc.

If you understand French you will find a lot of info on the site of Caramel
maintained by a no nonsense and knowledgeable SM owner.

Serge  V Opera, Mango#51


Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Kent, this is really reasonable insurance.  I have own boats for the last 6 years, but no sailboat.  US waters will be fine for the first 4 years.  My problem is that I live near Houston, TX… so in Hurricane area.  But could you please forward me the insurance company you are using.  Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre 713-412-6704

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 12:19 PM


 



On insurance, Alex, I am spending $3600 per year as a new owner of SM243, never having owned a sailboat before.  I am limited to sailing in and around US and Canadian waters, all of the Caribbean and S America except the waters of Cuba, Haiti, and the Domican Republic.  I have to be north of GA/FL border or south of Grenada during the hurricane season.  It will cost more when I do a transoceanic voyage, but by that time I  should have enough experience to allow for lower rate.
Kent

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@rocketmail.com> wrote:

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Cc: laetitiaii@yahoo.ca
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 9:51 AM

 

Dear Serge, I am very happy to have your feedback as the Mango seems more in my budget.  If I am not mistaking the Nirvana is an electric in-mast furling, does it work well?  Are you happy with it?  I read Amel went on designing their in-house in-mast furling… 
 
You mentioned your Mango is in Martinique during hurricane season, could you please let me know how much is your insurance (just the percentage), my research tells me (in the US, near Houston, TX) for 25 year old boat, I will pay 3% per year. So for example for 200,000 will be 6,000 per year.
 
I am glad to read your opinion on Amel having the lowest maintenance cost.  After being on a Super Maramu, I love the space, the concept, equipments, etc. but they seem quite expensive to up-keep and I feel like a less sophisticated or smaller Maramu or Mango would be less financially stressful to own. 
 
For information here is the intended goal:
-A year from now: purchasing the vessel.  Live aboard right away.
- The next 4 years, “local” (day or weekend) sailing to fix the bugs and put the vessel in excellent sailing condition.  
-Then the following 10 years, slowing sailing around South America then eventually back to Europe; sail for 2 or 3 days then anchor for 2 weeks to a month.
 
Regarding the costs: I don’t want to be stressed about expenses.  I will be fine spending $18,000 (average) per year on maintenance (in addition to the $6,000 Marina slip, $6,000 insurance and fuel), but I don’t want to purchase a vessel which end up costing $30,000 per years on maintenance alone.  
 
I heard about the Pierpont Morgan expression: “If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it”. 
 
Thanks again for taking the time to respond, I truly appreciate all of the responses so far.  Sincerely, Alexandre

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca> wrote:

From: Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 12:48 AM

 

Hi,

Maintenance cost vary from year to year but 10% of the value does represent a
fair amount for my 1985 Mango. I do a lot of the work, but depending of where
the boat is, competent help is sometimes difficult to find or parts are more or
less expensive.

While in Spain in 2006, I found that Transatlantic Diesel in the US offered the
best price for spare pumps for my Perkins main engine and this included
transportation fee by Fed Ex. However the Fed Ex delivery person did not find
the boat in the marina where I had been for 3 months and simply returned the
parts to the US, charging return fee to the sender. I had to repay again twice
the transportation fee to get the parts that I had already paid...  the cost for
the parts became horrendous!

This year I have to replace the Onan Genset as well as most of my standing
rigging. As an experienced sailor I have assured that the rigging has been
closely inspected and replaced where it was needed. However the surveyor and a
professional rigger refuse to give any certification for rigging 10 year old or
more, and the insurer which accept coverage for my boat in Martinique during
hurricane season refuses to cover the boat unless the rigging is changed by one
that can be certified. On the other hand the experienced rigger
consulted advised me that the Nirvana (Swiss) rigging used on my boat is the
best - but Nirvana engraved a serial no and the date of manufacture on every
part...

Meanwhile, it is not uncommon for riggers in the Caribeans to use cheap China
made parts and wire to replace riggings...

I have owned saiboats for the last 45 years, sailed a bit and, in my opinion,
Amel boats have a lower maintenance cost than comparable vessels with similar
equipment. The hull, the rigging, the main engine, the liquid circuits, the
electrical wiring and electronic components are not only first quality from the
outset, but usually the installation is sturdy and practical.

On the other hand, if the request by Alexandre is made because he fears
maintenance fees are a serious concern. I would suggest that he should then be
concerned by the size of the model of Amel chosen and the level of
sophistication of the boat.

SM or Mango and Maramu were built as reliable world cruisers handled by a couple
of young retiree. For most sailors, the boat builders industrie has determined
that the boat will sail about 15 days per year... and after docking my boat in
le Vieux Port of Marseille for 2 months, I beleive that 15 days of sailing is
highly exagerated for local boatowner. So if maintenance costs are an issue, a
owner should first be determining what is his intended use of the boat.

My Mango has more than 220gal of fuel capacity in two reservoirs. This is not
only useless for sunday sailors but also for those who can access fuel on a
days' notice, it is however most conforting in ocean crossings and South Pacific
island cuising.

Finally, with due respect for Alexandre to whom this comment is not directed,
one could recall the harsh comment made by a Rolls Royce car saleman who was
asked about the fuel cost for the car by a prospective client: Its too expensive
for you!

Serge,      V&#92;  Opera    Mango#51

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Re: Amel yearly upkeep cost

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello again Bill, I was able to see the "cost" page on your blog. 
 
Unfortunate I am already in Colorado; I would have loved to meet with you.  If you are interested in meeting another Amel owner, John Abercrombie has his SM at the Seabrook Shipyard, C dock if I remember correctly.  I visited his about a month ago. 
 
Thanks again, looking forward to your email.  Sincerely, Alexandre 713-412-6704

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@svbebe.com> wrote:


From: Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@svbebe.com>
Subject: [Amel] Re: Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 2:29 PM


 



Alexandre,

You can also try http://svbebe.blogspot.com/ click on the "COSTS" tab which is on the green bar.

Also, I noticed your phone number which is (713) or Houston, Texas. I am also in Houston for a few weeks...call me at 832-380-4970.

Best,

Bill
s/v BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently waiting for monsoon winds to carry us to the Red Sea
blog: http://www.svbebe.com

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@...> wrote:

Good morning Bill, thanks very much for the link, but for some reason I can’t access any of the pages (aside the welcome page) I will try again later.  I am really looking forward to look at the spreadsheet. 
 
A good friend of mine (experience sailor) always said: “Schedule your maintenance before your maintenance schedule you”. 
 
I really appreciate your advice regarding the previous owner…  I have contacted Joel Potter recently, he seems quite busy at the moment… not decided yet if I will use a broker. 
 
Looking forward to look at your web site.  Thanks very much for your help, sincerely, Alexandre 713-412-6704







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Amel] Re: Amel yearly upkeep cost

Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alexandre,

You can also try http://svbebe.blogspot.com/ click on the "COSTS" tab which is on the green bar.

Also, I noticed your phone number which is (713) or Houston, Texas. I am also in Houston for a few weeks...call me at 832-380-4970.

Best,

Bill
s/v BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently waiting for monsoon winds to carry us to the Red Sea
blog: http://www.svbebe.com

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@...> wrote:

Good morning Bill, thanks very much for the link, but for some reason I can’t access any of the pages (aside the welcome page) I will try again later.  I am really looking forward to look at the spreadsheet. 
 
A good friend of mine (experience sailor) always said: “Schedule your maintenance before your maintenance schedule you�. 
 
I really appreciate your advice regarding the previous owner…  I have contacted Joel Potter recently, he seems quite busy at the moment… not decided yet if I will use a broker. 
 
Looking forward to look at your web site.  Thanks very much for your help, sincerely, Alexandre 713-412-6704


Re: [Amel] Re: Hatches

Paul LaFrance <pflafrance@...>
 

Dave
I may be interested in the seals. Size & pics would appreciated to pflafrance@hotmail.com

Paul LaFrance
Nomad SM 362


To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: dave_benjamin@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 06:37:45 +0000
Subject: [Amel] Re: Hatches




























Some time ago I was dealing with Goiot on some hardware and asked them about replacement hatch seals. Since we were getting some hardware shipped over from France for an unrelated project I figured I'd just order up some of the Goiot hatch seals.



About a year later I decided to install the seals and discovered they are the wrong ones. I think the ones I have are for hatches like the ones on the SM. They are a squarish shape. I'd be happy to photograph and measure what I have if anyone is interested.



Regards,



Dave Benjamin

Maramu #29



--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, Conn Williamson <connwilliamson@...> wrote:

Hi there, if you go to the files section on the amel owners websit there is a
really good file on the goiot part numbers.
regards Conn...Mango #28

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Paul LaFrance <pflafrance@...>
 

Kent
The insurance rate your paying is good. If possible could you provide the contact name of your insurer? We are currently paying $4,600 for similar coverage.
Paul LaFrance
Nomad SM 362


To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: karkauai@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 10:19:01 -0800
Subject: Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost




























On insurance, Alex, I am spending $3600 per year as a new owner of SM243, never having owned a sailboat before. I am limited to sailing in and around US and Canadian waters, all of the Caribbean and S America except the waters of Cuba, Haiti, and the Domican Republic. I have to be north of GA/FL border or south of Grenada during the hurricane season. It will cost more when I do a transoceanic voyage, but by that time I should have enough experience to allow for lower rate.

Kent

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@rocketmail.com> wrote:



From: Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@rocketmail.com>

Subject: Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com

Cc: laetitiaii@yahoo.ca

Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 9:51 AM







Dear Serge, I am very happy to have your feedback as the Mango seems more in my budget. If I am not mistaking the Nirvana is an electric in-mast furling, does it work well? Are you happy with it? I read Amel went on designing their in-house in-mast furling



You mentioned your Mango is in Martinique during hurricane season, could you please let me know how much is your insurance (just the percentage), my research tells me (in the US, near Houston, TX) for 25 year old boat, I will pay 3% per year. So for example for 200,000 will be 6,000 per year.



I am glad to read your opinion on Amel having the lowest maintenance cost. After being on a Super Maramu, I love the space, the concept, equipments, etc. but they seem quite expensive to up-keep and I feel like a less sophisticated or smaller Maramu or Mango would be less financially stressful to own.



For information here is the intended goal:

-A year from now: purchasing the vessel. Live aboard right away.

- The next 4 years, local (day or weekend) sailing to fix the bugs and put the vessel in excellent sailing condition.

-Then the following 10 years, slowing sailing around South America then eventually back to Europe; sail for 2 or 3 days then anchor for 2 weeks to a month.



Regarding the costs: I dont want to be stressed about expenses. I will be fine spending $18,000 (average) per year on maintenance (in addition to the $6,000 Marina slip, $6,000 insurance and fuel), but I dont want to purchase a vessel which end up costing $30,000 per years on maintenance alone.



I heard about the Pierpont Morgan expression: If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it.



Thanks again for taking the time to respond, I truly appreciate all of the responses so far. Sincerely, Alexandre



--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca> wrote:



From: Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca>

Subject: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 12:48 AM







Hi,



Maintenance cost vary from year to year but 10% of the value does represent a

fair amount for my 1985 Mango. I do a lot of the work, but depending of where

the boat is, competent help is sometimes difficult to find or parts are more or

less expensive.



While in Spain in 2006, I found that Transatlantic Diesel in the US offered the

best price for spare pumps for my Perkins main engine and this included

transportation fee by Fed Ex. However the Fed Ex delivery person did not find

the boat in the marina where I had been for 3 months and simply returned the

parts to the US, charging return fee to the sender. I had to repay again twice

the transportation fee to get the parts that I had already paid... the cost for

the parts became horrendous!



This year I have to replace the Onan Genset as well as most of my standing

rigging. As an experienced sailor I have assured that the rigging has been

closely inspected and replaced where it was needed. However the surveyor and a

professional rigger refuse to give any certification for rigging 10 year old or

more, and the insurer which accept coverage for my boat in Martinique during

hurricane season refuses to cover the boat unless the rigging is changed by one

that can be certified. On the other hand the experienced rigger

consulted advised me that the Nirvana (Swiss) rigging used on my boat is the

best - but Nirvana engraved a serial no and the date of manufacture on every

part...



Meanwhile, it is not uncommon for riggers in the Caribeans to use cheap China

made parts and wire to replace riggings...



I have owned saiboats for the last 45 years, sailed a bit and, in my opinion,

Amel boats have a lower maintenance cost than comparable vessels with similar

equipment. The hull, the rigging, the main engine, the liquid circuits, the

electrical wiring and electronic components are not only first quality from the

outset, but usually the installation is sturdy and practical.



On the other hand, if the request by Alexandre is made because he fears

maintenance fees are a serious concern. I would suggest that he should then be

concerned by the size of the model of Amel chosen and the level of

sophistication of the boat.



SM or Mango and Maramu were built as reliable world cruisers handled by a couple

of young retiree. For most sailors, the boat builders industrie has determined

that the boat will sail about 15 days per year... and after docking my boat in

le Vieux Port of Marseille for 2 months, I beleive that 15 days of sailing is

highly exagerated for local boatowner. So if maintenance costs are an issue, a

owner should first be determining what is his intended use of the boat.



My Mango has more than 220gal of fuel capacity in two reservoirs. This is not

only useless for sunday sailors but also for those who can access fuel on a

days' notice, it is however most conforting in ocean crossings and South Pacific

island cuising.



Finally, with due respect for Alexandre to whom this comment is not directed,

one could recall the harsh comment made by a Rolls Royce car saleman who was

asked about the fuel cost for the car by a prospective client: Its too expensive

for you!



Serge, V&#92; Opera Mango#51



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re : Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@...>
 

Hi Alexandre,

The Nirvana rigging co went bust, I believe the asset and equipment was
purchased by Amel. The Nirvana furling system is very efficient, extremely
sturdy and low maintenance. In my opinion it is sturdier than the current
rigging, as may be observed from the section of the booms and masts.

Insurance: I did not renew the insurance I had with Yachtlink (2,5k€ per year)
because they refuse to cover if I left the boat in Martinique during hurricane
season. I presently  pay 784€ for civil liability coverage only (ie third party)
from a French insurer , until I change my rigging, then I should be able to get
coverage for my loss. Meanwhile, as an added security while on the hard, I
added  4 x 14+ or- ft crutches which are similar to those used by yards in the
south of France to resist the very strong (100+km/h) winds referred to as
Mistral. These crutches are fixed with 1 inch steel pins in the chain-plate
holes intended to be used for lifting the boat with a crane and chains. Since
these crutches extend some 4 to 5 feet from the sides of the hull, the
mechanical resistance of the boat to the wind is greatly enhanced.
 
As for the Amel model fitting your navigation plan, you will find that, the
bigger the boat - the bigger the problems and comfort aboard has a price.

I have a dishwasher aboard that I never use and it takes up some of my limited
galley space... On the other hand, I greatly enjoy my clothes washer- I had to
replace it this year... according to my calculation, at 750€, it will take more
than 7 years to recuperate its cost out of expenses for using laundromats or
other laundry services, and I still have to do the washing; and then, depending
on its use, the clothe washer is not a marine item conceived for salt water
conditions, it does not last longer than 7 years before requiring repairs...but
I do not have to get to the laundry or wait until I have enought dirty clothes
for one machine etc.

If you understand French you will find a lot of info on the site of Caramel
maintained by a no nonsense and knowledgeable SM owner.

Serge  V Opera, Mango#51



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

karkauai
 

On insurance, Alex, I am spending $3600 per year as a new owner of SM243, never having owned a sailboat before.  I am limited to sailing in and around US and Canadian waters, all of the Caribbean and S America except the waters of Cuba, Haiti, and the Domican Republic.  I have to be north of GA/FL border or south of Grenada during the hurricane season.  It will cost more when I do a transoceanic voyage, but by that time I  should have enough experience to allow for lower rate.
Kent

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@rocketmail.com> wrote:


From: Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Cc: laetitiaii@yahoo.ca
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 9:51 AM


 





Dear Serge, I am very happy to have your feedback as the Mango seems more in my budget.  If I am not mistaking the Nirvana is an electric in-mast furling, does it work well?  Are you happy with it?  I read Amel went on designing their in-house in-mast furling… 
 
You mentioned your Mango is in Martinique during hurricane season, could you please let me know how much is your insurance (just the percentage), my research tells me (in the US, near Houston, TX) for 25 year old boat, I will pay 3% per year. So for example for 200,000 will be 6,000 per year.
 
I am glad to read your opinion on Amel having the lowest maintenance cost.  After being on a Super Maramu, I love the space, the concept, equipments, etc. but they seem quite expensive to up-keep and I feel like a less sophisticated or smaller Maramu or Mango would be less financially stressful to own. 
 
For information here is the intended goal:
-A year from now: purchasing the vessel.  Live aboard right away.
- The next 4 years, “local” (day or weekend) sailing to fix the bugs and put the vessel in excellent sailing condition.  
-Then the following 10 years, slowing sailing around South America then eventually back to Europe; sail for 2 or 3 days then anchor for 2 weeks to a month.
 
Regarding the costs: I don’t want to be stressed about expenses.  I will be fine spending $18,000 (average) per year on maintenance (in addition to the $6,000 Marina slip, $6,000 insurance and fuel), but I don’t want to purchase a vessel which end up costing $30,000 per years on maintenance alone.  
 
I heard about the Pierpont Morgan expression: “If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it”. 
 
Thanks again for taking the time to respond, I truly appreciate all of the responses so far.  Sincerely, Alexandre

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca> wrote:

From: Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 12:48 AM

 

Hi,

Maintenance cost vary from year to year but 10% of the value does represent a
fair amount for my 1985 Mango. I do a lot of the work, but depending of where
the boat is, competent help is sometimes difficult to find or parts are more or
less expensive.

While in Spain in 2006, I found that Transatlantic Diesel in the US offered the
best price for spare pumps for my Perkins main engine and this included
transportation fee by Fed Ex. However the Fed Ex delivery person did not find
the boat in the marina where I had been for 3 months and simply returned the
parts to the US, charging return fee to the sender. I had to repay again twice
the transportation fee to get the parts that I had already paid...  the cost for
the parts became horrendous!

This year I have to replace the Onan Genset as well as most of my standing
rigging. As an experienced sailor I have assured that the rigging has been
closely inspected and replaced where it was needed. However the surveyor and a
professional rigger refuse to give any certification for rigging 10 year old or
more, and the insurer which accept coverage for my boat in Martinique during
hurricane season refuses to cover the boat unless the rigging is changed by one
that can be certified. On the other hand the experienced rigger
consulted advised me that the Nirvana (Swiss) rigging used on my boat is the
best - but Nirvana engraved a serial no and the date of manufacture on every
part...

Meanwhile, it is not uncommon for riggers in the Caribeans to use cheap China
made parts and wire to replace riggings...

I have owned saiboats for the last 45 years, sailed a bit and, in my opinion,
Amel boats have a lower maintenance cost than comparable vessels with similar
equipment. The hull, the rigging, the main engine, the liquid circuits, the
electrical wiring and electronic components are not only first quality from the
outset, but usually the installation is sturdy and practical.

On the other hand, if the request by Alexandre is made because he fears
maintenance fees are a serious concern. I would suggest that he should then be
concerned by the size of the model of Amel chosen and the level of
sophistication of the boat.

SM or Mango and Maramu were built as reliable world cruisers handled by a couple
of young retiree. For most sailors, the boat builders industrie has determined
that the boat will sail about 15 days per year... and after docking my boat in
le Vieux Port of Marseille for 2 months, I beleive that 15 days of sailing is
highly exagerated for local boatowner. So if maintenance costs are an issue, a
owner should first be determining what is his intended use of the boat.

My Mango has more than 220gal of fuel capacity in two reservoirs. This is not
only useless for sunday sailors but also for those who can access fuel on a
days' notice, it is however most conforting in ocean crossings and South Pacific
island cuising.

Finally, with due respect for Alexandre to whom this comment is not directed,
one could recall the harsh comment made by a Rolls Royce car saleman who was
asked about the fuel cost for the car by a prospective client: Its too expensive
for you!

Serge,      V&#92;  Opera    Mango#51

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Scheiber CJ 400 Battery Charger

Roy Duddy <RDuddy@...>
 

Does anyone have the specifications/operator's manual for the above-referenced battery charger? I have one (factory) installed on my Sharki that I need to troubleshoot. Thank you .
Roy Duddy
Sharki #123
Unwineding



Duddy Law Offices
500 Commercial Street
Suite 401
Manchester, NH 03101
603-668-9000
603-606-2756 Fax
rduddy@duddylaw.com


Re: [Amel] Re: Amel yearly upkeep cost

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Bill, thanks very much for the link, but for some reason I can’t access any of the pages (aside the welcome page) I will try again later.  I am really looking forward to look at the spreadsheet. 
 
A good friend of mine (experience sailor) always said: “Schedule your maintenance before your maintenance schedule you”. 
 
I really appreciate your advice regarding the previous owner…  I have contacted Joel Potter recently, he seems quite busy at the moment… not decided yet if I will use a broker. 
 
Looking forward to look at your web site.  Thanks very much for your help, sincerely, Alexandre 713-412-6704

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@svbebe.com> wrote:


From: Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@svbebe.com>
Subject: [Amel] Re: Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 10:08 AM


 



Alexandre,

Costs are dependent on many issues...age of the Amel, level and quality of care given by the previous owner, prior frequency of use, and your frequency of use.

If you want to see some exact costs over a four year period while circumnavigating go to http://www.svbebe.com and click on the "Costs" tab. You will see some narrative and a spreadsheet. When looking at the spreadsheet, please note that "Misc Boat Supplies" is all boat maintenance/parts other than Amel spare parts, which is a separate line, and those items were ordered directly from Amel.

Our attitude toward maintenance and repair is that we perform routine maintenance on all things before the recommended date and that we replace things when they look a "little tired." I can imagine that our costs may have been 30-40% cheaper if our attitude was to replace or repair only when it fails.

From what I have seen and what I have experienced, I believe the most important Amel ownership cost factor is based on the level and quality of care given by the previous owner. I think you should take the utmost care in the selection of your "previous owner." Are you using a broker that can add value to the purchase? If you are looking to buy in the US, talk to Amel specialist, Joel Potter (jfpottercys"at"att.net)...I know he will add value to your purchase.

I hope this helps you and wish you well. If you have any specific questions regarding our costs or anything else, feel free to email me at bill"at"svbebe.com

Regards,

Bill
s/v BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently waiting for monsoon winds to carry us to the Red Sea
blog: http://www.svbebe.com

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@...> wrote:


I am seriously interested in purchasing an Amel. The SM cost is above my current budget but I am not discarding it, I am considering Maramu, Santorin and even Mango. Would that be possible to get some feedback on the average yearly up keep/ maintenance (once the sailboat is in absolute ready to cruise condition). A French web site mentions 3500 € ($4,900) per year on an SM, this seems a bit low. I am not looking for insurance nor marina fees, just the maintenance/upkeep costs such as hoses, filters, bearings, bushings, seals, etc.
Thanks in advance. Sincerely, Alexandre







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Amel yearly upkeep cost

Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alexandre,

Costs are dependent on many issues...age of the Amel, level and quality of care given by the previous owner, prior frequency of use, and your frequency of use.

If you want to see some exact costs over a four year period while circumnavigating go to http://www.svbebe.com and click on the "Costs" tab. You will see some narrative and a spreadsheet. When looking at the spreadsheet, please note that "Misc Boat Supplies" is all boat maintenance/parts other than Amel spare parts, which is a separate line, and those items were ordered directly from Amel.

Our attitude toward maintenance and repair is that we perform routine maintenance on all things before the recommended date and that we replace things when they look a "little tired." I can imagine that our costs may have been 30-40% cheaper if our attitude was to replace or repair only when it fails.

From what I have seen and what I have experienced, I believe the most important Amel ownership cost factor is based on the level and quality of care given by the previous owner. I think you should take the utmost care in the selection of your "previous owner." Are you using a broker that can add value to the purchase? If you are looking to buy in the US, talk to Amel specialist, Joel Potter (jfpottercys"at"att.net)...I know he will add value to your purchase.

I hope this helps you and wish you well. If you have any specific questions regarding our costs or anything else, feel free to email me at bill"at"svbebe.com

Regards,

Bill
s/v BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently waiting for monsoon winds to carry us to the Red Sea
blog: http://www.svbebe.com

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@...> wrote:


I am seriously interested in purchasing an Amel. The SM cost is above my current budget but I am not discarding it, I am considering Maramu, Santorin and even Mango. Would that be possible to get some feedback on the average yearly up keep/ maintenance (once the sailboat is in absolute ready to cruise condition). A French web site mentions 3500 € ($4,900) per year on an SM, this seems a bit low. I am not looking for insurance nor marina fees, just the maintenance/upkeep costs such as hoses, filters, bearings, bushings, seals, etc.
Thanks in advance. Sincerely, Alexandre


Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Serg if you are looking for a Gen set replacement we did a Bata unit it is a bolt In everything matches up. That is because it appears to be the same confit that Onan uses.

Good luck fair winds

Richard Piller sm 209 for sale

On Nov 17, 2010, at 1:48, Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca> wrote:

Hi,

Maintenance cost vary from year to year but 10% of the value does represent a
fair amount for my 1985 Mango. I do a lot of the work, but depending of where
the boat is, competent help is sometimes difficult to find or parts are more or
less expensive.

While in Spain in 2006, I found that Transatlantic Diesel in the US offered the
best price for spare pumps for my Perkins main engine and this included
transportation fee by Fed Ex. However the Fed Ex delivery person did not find
the boat in the marina where I had been for 3 months and simply returned the
parts to the US, charging return fee to the sender. I had to repay again twice
the transportation fee to get the parts that I had already paid... the cost for
the parts became horrendous!

This year I have to replace the Onan Genset as well as most of my standing
rigging. As an experienced sailor I have assured that the rigging has been
closely inspected and replaced where it was needed. However the surveyor and a
professional rigger refuse to give any certification for rigging 10 year old or
more, and the insurer which accept coverage for my boat in Martinique during
hurricane season refuses to cover the boat unless the rigging is changed by one
that can be certified. On the other hand the experienced rigger
consulted advised me that the Nirvana (Swiss) rigging used on my boat is the
best - but Nirvana engraved a serial no and the date of manufacture on every
part...

Meanwhile, it is not uncommon for riggers in the Caribeans to use cheap China
made parts and wire to replace riggings...

I have owned saiboats for the last 45 years, sailed a bit and, in my opinion,
Amel boats have a lower maintenance cost than comparable vessels with similar
equipment. The hull, the rigging, the main engine, the liquid circuits, the
electrical wiring and electronic components are not only first quality from the
outset, but usually the installation is sturdy and practical.

On the other hand, if the request by Alexandre is made because he fears
maintenance fees are a serious concern. I would suggest that he should then be
concerned by the size of the model of Amel chosen and the level of
sophistication of the boat.

SM or Mango and Maramu were built as reliable world cruisers handled by a couple
of young retiree. For most sailors, the boat builders industrie has determined
that the boat will sail about 15 days per year... and after docking my boat in
le Vieux Port of Marseille for 2 months, I beleive that 15 days of sailing is
highly exagerated for local boatowner. So if maintenance costs are an issue, a
owner should first be determining what is his intended use of the boat.

My Mango has more than 220gal of fuel capacity in two reservoirs. This is not
only useless for sunday sailors but also for those who can access fuel on a
days' notice, it is however most conforting in ocean crossings and South Pacific
island cuising.

Finally, with due respect for Alexandre to whom this comment is not directed,
one could recall the harsh comment made by a Rolls Royce car saleman who was
asked about the fuel cost for the car by a prospective client: Its too expensive
for you!

Serge, V&#92; Opera Mango#51

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Dear Serge, I am very happy to have your feedback as the Mango seems more in my budget.  If I am not mistaking the Nirvana is an electric in-mast furling, does it work well?  Are you happy with it?  I read Amel went on designing their in-house in-mast furling… 
 
You mentioned your Mango is in Martinique during hurricane season, could you please let me know how much is your insurance (just the percentage), my research tells me (in the US, near Houston, TX) for 25 year old boat, I will pay 3% per year. So for example for 200,000 will be 6,000 per year.
 
I am glad to read your opinion on Amel having the lowest maintenance cost.  After being on a Super Maramu, I love the space, the concept, equipments, etc. but they seem quite expensive to up-keep and I feel like a less sophisticated or smaller Maramu or Mango would be less financially stressful to own. 
 
For information here is the intended goal:
-A year from now: purchasing the vessel.  Live aboard right away.
- The next 4 years, “local” (day or weekend) sailing to fix the bugs and put the vessel in excellent sailing condition.  
-Then the following 10 years, slowing sailing around South America then eventually back to Europe; sail for 2 or 3 days then anchor for 2 weeks to a month.
 
Regarding the costs: I don’t want to be stressed about expenses.  I will be fine spending $18,000 (average) per year on maintenance (in addition to the $6,000 Marina slip, $6,000 insurance and fuel), but I don’t want to purchase a vessel which end up costing $30,000 per years on maintenance alone.  
 
I heard about the Pierpont Morgan expression: “If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it”. 
 
Thanks again for taking the time to respond, I truly appreciate all of the responses so far.  Sincerely, Alexandre

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca> wrote:


From: Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 12:48 AM


 



Hi,

Maintenance cost vary from year to year but 10% of the value does represent a
fair amount for my 1985 Mango. I do a lot of the work, but depending of where
the boat is, competent help is sometimes difficult to find or parts are more or
less expensive.

While in Spain in 2006, I found that Transatlantic Diesel in the US offered the
best price for spare pumps for my Perkins main engine and this included
transportation fee by Fed Ex. However the Fed Ex delivery person did not find
the boat in the marina where I had been for 3 months and simply returned the
parts to the US, charging return fee to the sender. I had to repay again twice
the transportation fee to get the parts that I had already paid...  the cost for
the parts became horrendous!

This year I have to replace the Onan Genset as well as most of my standing
rigging. As an experienced sailor I have assured that the rigging has been
closely inspected and replaced where it was needed. However the surveyor and a
professional rigger refuse to give any certification for rigging 10 year old or
more, and the insurer which accept coverage for my boat in Martinique during
hurricane season refuses to cover the boat unless the rigging is changed by one
that can be certified. On the other hand the experienced rigger
consulted advised me that the Nirvana (Swiss) rigging used on my boat is the
best - but Nirvana engraved a serial no and the date of manufacture on every
part...

Meanwhile, it is not uncommon for riggers in the Caribeans to use cheap China
made parts and wire to replace riggings...

I have owned saiboats for the last 45 years, sailed a bit and, in my opinion,
Amel boats have a lower maintenance cost than comparable vessels with similar
equipment. The hull, the rigging, the main engine, the liquid circuits, the
electrical wiring and electronic components are not only first quality from the
outset, but usually the installation is sturdy and practical.

On the other hand, if the request by Alexandre is made because he fears
maintenance fees are a serious concern. I would suggest that he should then be
concerned by the size of the model of Amel chosen and the level of
sophistication of the boat.

SM or Mango and Maramu were built as reliable world cruisers handled by a couple
of young retiree. For most sailors, the boat builders industrie has determined
that the boat will sail about 15 days per year... and after docking my boat in
le Vieux Port of Marseille for 2 months, I beleive that 15 days of sailing is
highly exagerated for local boatowner. So if maintenance costs are an issue, a
owner should first be determining what is his intended use of the boat.

My Mango has more than 220gal of fuel capacity in two reservoirs. This is not
only useless for sunday sailors but also for those who can access fuel on a
days' notice, it is however most conforting in ocean crossings and South Pacific
island cuising.

Finally, with due respect for Alexandre to whom this comment is not directed,
one could recall the harsh comment made by a Rolls Royce car saleman who was
asked about the fuel cost for the car by a prospective client: Its too expensive
for you!

Serge,      V&#92;  Opera    Mango#51

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Dear Kent, thank you very much for the detailed list, very interesting especially for the propeller.  I really appreciate your feedback.

--- On Tue, 11/16/10, Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 7:54 PM


 





Hey, Alex.  Was aware of a few things, not most of it.  Things quit working one at a time over the last two years.  Big ticket items were: New set of sails, replacing standing rigging, new SSB antenna, lots of $ trying to figure out why I couldn't get appropriate rpms...turned out to be overpropped by Amel, but took a lot of time and several mechanics to convince me that there wasn't a problem with the engine since it was original prop sold with boat (Amel still says it's the right prop although Autoprop says it was the prop they recommended for my boat with a 100HP Yanmar, mine's a 78HP Volvo)...new furling and outhaul motors and gear boxes for the main (poorly maintained from the start I think), one of the three refrigerators needed new motor and compressor, new canvas for cockpit enclosure and awning, new VHF radio with AIS, The Cap'n navigation software, new fire suppression system with automatic shutoff/manual override for engine and
generator, stripped gears in the mizzen furler...I'm working off the top of my head and am sure I've missed a few items.  Now new water heater and bilge pump.
 
I've done some of it myself, but the majority of it done by boatyards since I'm still working and the boat's a 6 hr drive from where I live (in the foothills far from salt water).  It is true that the boat is 11 years old and many of the problems are expected after that long.  Once I can get retired completely and live aboard, I will be able to do much if not most of it myself now that I've been able to learn from what's been done.  I wouldn't expect anywhere near this much expense now that most of the major items have been replaced or overhauled.  Dual drive autopilot is working fine but I'd expect that will be a big ticket item before too long.
 
I've read that when you buy a boat that's in the kind of shape KRISTY was in when I bought her (virtually everything worked at the survey) you should expect to spend another 15-20% of the purchase price on getting it ship-shape and the way you want it.  I've spent over 25% so far, not counting regular maintenance, dockage/storage, etc.
 
Again, if your boat is close enough to you and you have the time to work on it yourself, you will save at least half of what you'd spend having a yard do the work.
 
Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
Kent
SM243
KRISTY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re : [Amel] Amel yearly upkeep cost

Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@...>
 

Hi,

Maintenance cost vary from year to year but 10% of the value does represent a
fair amount for my 1985 Mango. I do a lot of the work, but depending of where
the boat is, competent help is sometimes difficult to find or parts are more or
less expensive.

While in Spain in 2006, I found that Transatlantic Diesel in the US offered the
best price for spare pumps for my Perkins main engine and this included
transportation fee by Fed Ex. However the Fed Ex delivery person did not find
the boat in the marina where I had been for 3 months and simply returned the
parts to the US, charging return fee to the sender. I had to repay again twice
the transportation fee to get the parts that I had already paid...  the cost for
the parts became horrendous!

This year I have to replace the Onan Genset as well as most of my standing
rigging. As an experienced sailor I have assured that the rigging has been
closely inspected and replaced where it was needed. However the surveyor and a
professional rigger refuse to give any certification for rigging 10 year old or
more, and the insurer which accept coverage for my boat in Martinique during
hurricane season refuses to cover the boat unless the rigging is changed by one
that can be certified. On the other hand the experienced rigger
consulted advised me that the Nirvana (Swiss) rigging used on my boat is the
best - but Nirvana engraved a serial no and the date of manufacture on every
part...


Meanwhile, it is not uncommon for riggers in the Caribeans to use cheap China
made parts and wire to replace riggings...


I have owned saiboats for the last 45 years, sailed a bit and, in my opinion,
Amel boats have a lower maintenance cost than comparable vessels with similar
equipment. The hull, the rigging, the main engine, the liquid circuits, the
electrical wiring and electronic components are not only first quality from the
outset, but usually the installation is sturdy and practical.

On the other hand, if the request by Alexandre is made because he fears
maintenance fees are a serious concern. I would suggest that he should then be
concerned by the size of the model of Amel chosen and the level of
sophistication of the boat.


SM or Mango and Maramu were built as reliable world cruisers handled by a couple
of young retiree. For most sailors, the boat builders industrie has determined
that the boat will sail about 15 days per year... and after docking my boat in
le Vieux Port of Marseille for 2 months, I beleive that 15 days of sailing is
highly exagerated for local boatowner. So if maintenance costs are an issue, a
owner should first be determining what is his intended use of the boat.

My Mango has more than 220gal of fuel capacity in two reservoirs. This is not
only useless for sunday sailors but also for those who can access fuel on a
days' notice, it is however most conforting in ocean crossings and South Pacific
island cuising.

Finally, with due respect for Alexandre to whom this comment is not directed,
one could recall the harsh comment made by a Rolls Royce car saleman who was
asked about the fuel cost for the car by a prospective client: Its too expensive
for you!

Serge,      V&#92;  Opera    Mango#51