Date   

smelly water

john martin <symoondog@...>
 

About a year ago I put Sew Clean in my toilets,hoses and the bottom couple of inches of the holding tanks, to insure it filled the outlet hose. This product is especially designed for black water systems to clean out pipes and eliminate odors. After 24 hours I pumped the solution out and a lot of crud came out. So far I'm happy with it. I'm hoping that one treatment a year will eliminate all odors and problems. I also used their other product called Barnacle Buster. Its primarily for engines. I closed off the salt water intake of my Volvo ,after the water pump, and then circulated the solution for 45 minutes using a small 12 volt pump and a combination of hoses and a bucket. I didn't see much dirt in the water so I assumed it didn't work very well. Two weeks ago I had a mechanic working on the engine and he had to take off the back plate of the heat exchanger. He called me over to tell me I had a really clean heat exchanger and that's when I could see the results of the Barnacle Buster. I am going to put sew clean in the manifold and pump it through the toilets and air conditioners in a few weeks, I'll let you know the results John "Moon Dog" SM 248


Re: [Amel] Smelly water

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi Bill thanks for the " heads up" when we are in places for more then a few days we run fresh water into the sea chest to keep stuff from growing and limit salt buildup. I guess " fresh clean" water may be very hard to come by in many of the places you guys have visited.

Safe travels b

Regards
Richard Sm209

On Mar 14, 2011, at 5:58, "Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe" <yahoogroups@svbebe.com> wrote:

I know that we have all forgotten to flush the salt water out when leaving the boat unattended for more than a few days and returned to smelly water when operating the heads.

Many of you may have been in places like India where filth and garbage is everywhere including the ocean water near the coast.

We recently spent a month in Cochin (Kochi) India. We were berthed in a (the only) marina and had about 1 foot under the keel (we were in a deep slip). The water was terrible. It was thick with mud, garbage, weeds and occasional dead dogs. The water had a smell that matched its contents. I was cleaning the sea chest strainer every day while we were in Cochin.

When we left Cochin, I felt that within a short period the water in the heads would clear up. The water did become clear, but the smell continued. I knew what I needed to do.

I disconnected the three hoses from the sea chest and all of the hoses from the salt water manifold and removed the manifold. Inside the hose from the sea chest and inside the salt water manifold I found what appeared to be oily greasy gunk which restricted at least half of the flow of water. I used water and the rigging-wire-roto-tool that I have pictured on this website (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners/photos/album/1208267126/pic/1783391874/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc) to clean out the gunk in the hose and the salt water manifold. I have used my home-built tool now 4 or 5 times including head hose/pipe cleaning and sea chest and salt water manifold cleaning. I am beginning to think it should be standard equipment especially if you end up stopping in places like India. Funny side note: Two days ago while in Route to Maldives from India, an India Coast Guard ship warned private vessels not to come within 5 miles of their position because they were engaged in anti-pollution exercises. We got a really good laugh of of that!

Back to my story: I have had to clean these out before, once because of mussels growing in the sea chest output-pipes and the hose to the salt water manifold; and now, this time. In each case the growth did not go beyond the salt water manifold. It seemed like a magnet that stopped whatever was growing there. It is puzzling to me, but I am thankful that I did not need to clean beyond this point.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Best,

Bill
s/v BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently Male, Maldives awaiting SevenStar Transport ship to Marmaris, Turkey---the pirates did/will not get us, but because of them, SevenStar got a bundle from us!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Smelly water

Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@...>
 

I know that we have all forgotten to flush the salt water out when leaving the boat unattended for more than a few days and returned to smelly water when operating the heads.

Many of you may have been in places like India where filth and garbage is everywhere including the ocean water near the coast.

We recently spent a month in Cochin (Kochi) India. We were berthed in a (the only) marina and had about 1 foot under the keel (we were in a deep slip). The water was terrible. It was thick with mud, garbage, weeds and occasional dead dogs. The water had a smell that matched its contents. I was cleaning the sea chest strainer every day while we were in Cochin.

When we left Cochin, I felt that within a short period the water in the heads would clear up. The water did become clear, but the smell continued. I knew what I needed to do.

I disconnected the three hoses from the sea chest and all of the hoses from the salt water manifold and removed the manifold. Inside the hose from the sea chest and inside the salt water manifold I found what appeared to be oily greasy gunk which restricted at least half of the flow of water. I used water and the rigging-wire-roto-tool that I have pictured on this website (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners/photos/album/1208267126/pic/1783391874/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc) to clean out the gunk in the hose and the salt water manifold. I have used my home-built tool now 4 or 5 times including head hose/pipe cleaning and sea chest and salt water manifold cleaning. I am beginning to think it should be standard equipment especially if you end up stopping in places like India. Funny side note: Two days ago while in Route to Maldives from India, an India Coast Guard ship warned private vessels not to come within 5 miles of their position because they were engaged in anti-pollution exercises. We got a really good laugh of of that!

Back to my story: I have had to clean these out before, once because of mussels growing in the sea chest output-pipes and the hose to the salt water manifold; and now, this time. In each case the growth did not go beyond the salt water manifold. It seemed like a magnet that stopped whatever was growing there. It is puzzling to me, but I am thankful that I did not need to clean beyond this point.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Best,

Bill
s/v BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently Male, Maldives awaiting SevenStar Transport ship to Marmaris, Turkey---the pirates did/will not get us, but because of them, SevenStar got a bundle from us!


bow thruster ervice

Giovanni TESTA
 

To all,
first thanks a lot to all for help and suggestions .
Short story :
After a terrible Screech, Screech noise I explored the bottom of the motor where there is the connection with the black plastic column of the feet.
So, with the support of Photo section " Bow thruster service " I discovered that the bearing was broken.
This my experience to fix it.
- Remove the motor from steel and electric cables.
It is very heavy, so it is better to work on a table.
- remove the 2 circular clips
- remove the 4 studs
- separate now the lower part of the motor.
With the old broken bearing in position it is not so easy.
You may lever up with a screwdriver. At the end it works but, opening motor box, the all shaft, that is the rotor, may slide out. The rotor has 2 bearing : one on the top, the second at the bottom , that one broken.
-now you have 2 parts, the cylindrical black box ( stator) and the shaft ( rotor). More a little and thin circular spring that is positioned between the top bearing and its housing.
- remove the steel ogive on the top motor ( that one with the cable steel connection) and the "golden" cover ( 4 screws)
-remove all the 8 brushes. NOTE : you must mark them about their location and position.
- remove the hold broken bearing, part from shaft and part from housing.
Without extractor it was possible with gentle hammer and screw driver. Five hours of tough work.
- The bearings have n.6204V . All the bearings with this number , made by different makers ( NSK, Skf, ecc) , have identical features.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-NSK-C-Series-Bearing-Part-Number-6204VV-/290540406001#ht_500wt_1107
To reassemble the motor :
- with a soft sand paper clean the rotor copper part from the carbon deposit. Take care of cleaning very well the thin ditches .
- insert the rotor with the stator upside-down. But before, remember, insert the thin circular spring. Push and knock gently with an hammer all around to help the bearing entering into its housing. This is very critical. The bearing must enter soft and completely, less ,may be, 1 or 2 mm, that is the spring thickness, more or less.
- the 8 brushes must return in their identical location and position.
- close the upper part with the golden cover ( 4 screws)
- insert the new bearing into the bottom housing and its large circular clip.
- close the motor fitting in the lower housing part with the 4 screws
- insert the narrow circular clip around the shaft
End of the story
I'll try to post photos of broken bearing, new bearing and circular clips, label with motor characteristic.
Sorry,I forgot to take others photo in the concern of the moment.
Any way I stay stand by for any request.
Gianni TESTA
EUTIKIA SM n 428


Re: [Amel] maramu mail roler furler swivel

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Garyl,
the first time the furler jammed on the previous boat the headsail was half furled and we were in mid ocean 600 miles from any where. Luckily there was light wind at the time so we labouriously manually unwrapped the head sail by passing it around the forestay one wrap at a time. Then we dropped the sail to check the roller not knowing what had caused the failure.. In the absence of a better idea we gave it a good flushing with fresh water splashed from a bucket (no hose on that boat). The furlex unit had grease points and we had the opropriate grease on board so we inserted it and all was good. P.S. to this was that 48 hours later we were in the lead up to a full on Pacific storm and had to unroll the furler to put on the storm jib. Had it jammed then we would have been in big trouble. No way we could have unwrapped it in 50 knots rising to 70. The point to repeating this story is to emphasise that a simple maintenance process can save a serious
falure.
 
Now to the Amel SM 2000. Just unroll the sail, (main, mizzen or headsail) drop the halyard so you can access the roller. Flush it with fresh water and leave to dry. These units dont have grease points so I use a needle point grease gun to insert the grease as close to the rollers as I can. I use a light grease as recommended for winches. Work it in as best you can and spin the roller by hand before rehoisting. a good chance to check the halyard condition where it attaches and to the check the sail attachment to the roller, both are prone to wear. A bit of helpful information. To drop the main halyard attach a tail to it with a bowline passed through the loop that goes over the holder slide, the slot into the mast is sized to allow it through.
Cheers
Danny
SM299 Ocean Pearl

--- On Sun, 13/3/11, amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


From: amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Amel] maramu mail roler furler swivel
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 13, March, 2011, 2:19 PM


 



Danny and Yvonne

Hi guys:

Can you be a little more specific about the process. Do you take a hose aloft and flush water down thru the furling foil on the jib/headstay? Do you then apply grease to the cavity where the jib foil is on the stay? What exactly is the process on the main and mizzen furling mechanism at the top to the masts?

Detailed instructions would be appreciated. Perhaps even write up the process in detail and post it in the Files section,

Many thanks,

Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000 # 335








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Re: [Amel] maramu mail roler furler swivel

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Danny and Yvonne

Hi guys:

Can you be a little more specific about the process. Do you take a hose aloft and flush water down thru the furling foil on the jib/headstay? Do you then apply grease to the cavity where the jib foil is on the stay? What exactly is the process on the main and mizzen furling mechanism at the top to the masts?

Detailed instructions would be appreciated. Perhaps even write up the process in detail and post it in the Files section,

Many thanks,

Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000 # 335


Re: [Amel] maramu mail roler furler swivel

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi, on a previous boat I found that salt is a great enemy of furler rollers.. Had one sieze up in mid ocean, couldnt move it either way. Un wrapped the headsail by hand, droped the sail and flushed the top roller with fresh water and greased it. Worked perfectly and from then on I cleaned and greased it periodically and never had trouble again.
With the Amel I periodically drop the sails and wash and lubricate the headsail, main and mizzen rollers. Suggest before you buy a new one, try washing the salt out and lubricating it.
Cheers from Sunny Mangonui in New Zealand 
Danny and Yvonne
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

--- On Thu, 10/3/11, bsarff <bsarff@comcast.net> wrote:


From: bsarff <bsarff@comcast.net>
Subject: [Amel] maramu mail roler furler swivel
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 10, March, 2011, 5:09 PM


 



The main roler furler swivel has frozen up and the top and bottom will not turn independently. I have tried to break it free but there is no room to work inside the mast. I believe I will need to drop the mast in order to pull the swivel out the bottom. Does anyone know if these swivels are still available? Has anyone had to work on their swivel and if so does it come apart fairly easily. If I want to check with Amel on purchasing a new one, who do I contact?

Thanks in advance for you advise.

Bob & Joyce
S/V Chara
HIN 173








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Re: replacement membranes

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Mark: See this link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners/files/Dessalator%20Technical%20Info

Open the File name "Membrane Replacement" and also the one regarding O-ring specifications.

The membranes are SW30-2540 which stands for Sea Water 30 - 2.5 inch by 40 inches Filmtech makes them, they are available from many sources so shop for price and service.. Air Water & Ice in Florida has supplied me and ships internationally.

Gary Silver
s/a Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335


/
--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com




, "Mark" <markghayden@...> wrote:


I've been told it is time to replace 10yr old membranes on our SM2K. I'm looking at ordering membranes from the US where they are much cheaper than NZ. The rep at Great Water Inc says standard 2.5"x40" membranes should work in our Desalator unit and the membranes are customer installable.

Does anyone have experience doing this? Recommendations or pitfalls to be aware of?

thanks, Mark


Re: [Amel] Jado Sink Mixer TAp

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Ian, Do you mean the mixer tap as fitted to the galley ? We have SM 302, June 2000, and the galley tap, which I suspect is the same as the heads basins taps, went AWOL. We replaced it with a bog standard, almost identical , mixer tap from the first bathroom/kitchen shop we came across in the UK. Not a problem. Cheers, Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Spain

To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: sv_freespirit@yahoo.co.uk
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:39:44 +0000
Subject: [Amel] Jado Sink Mixer TAp

Has anyone found a supplier of parts for the Jado Gold'eram 7085 mixer
tap fitted to SM's around 2003? Mine is leaking and needs some special
heart shaped seals in the mixer unit. The Jado website is most unhelpful
and does not even recognise the Gold'eram range.

If you know of a source of parts it would be most helpful.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Jado Sink Mixer TAp

Ian Shepherd
 

Has anyone found a supplier of parts for the Jado Gold'eram 7085 mixer tap fitted to SM's around 2003? Mine is leaking and needs some special heart shaped seals in the mixer unit. The Jado website is most unhelpful and does not even recognise the Gold'eram range.

If you know of a source of parts it would be most helpful.

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader


Re: [Amel] Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

Chris Smither <yachtakwaaba@...>
 

Hi Kent,
   We have an 80/L hr seafresh on our Santorin, and have had for 17 years. I changed membranes about 3 years ago.
   I regularly inhibit, (some people call it "pickle") the watermaker with Sodium metabisulphate - this is sometimes called "camden tablets" and is used by winemakers.
   I keep a 25L white plastic plastic water barrel, with tap and hoses cut to length, on the boat and use that exclusively for pickling the unit. 250gms of bisulphate in the barrel is just the right concentration for short  term out of use (up to 6 months).
  The advantage of the white plastic is that - if your marina water has chlorine in it you fill the barrel and leave it in the sun for 24 hrs, and that destroys the chlorine.
   The Bisulphate can be left in the 50 and 5 micron filters and keeps them clean as well - it's a win/win technique.
   You just have to remember to run the first 30/40L to "dump" on recommisioning.
    I also have an operational rule - I only use the watermaker in deep clear sea water - that prolongs the life of the filters and the membranes.

Mike
Akwaaba SN 027

PS I forgot - pay attention to the temperature pressure graph in the watermaker instructions - most are set up to operate in N Atlantic water temperatures - at 800+ psi.
Warmer water needs a lower pressure - here in the Indian Ocean/Andaman Sea a pressure of 600psi gives full flow. The sure way to shorten membrane life is to "over drive" them.
M

--- On Fri, 3/11/11, john martin <symoondog@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: john martin <symoondog@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: 60 l/hr dessalator
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 11, 2011, 2:06 PM


Hi Kent,

We had a similar problem with the salinity sensor built into the water maker, it stopped sensing that the water wasn't good enough quality.  We now have a TDS Meter (Total Dissolved Solids Meter) onboard.  It is a small battery powered water tester that reads up to 1000 parts per million (ppm).   We bought the unit after talking to Mark at Great Water in Maine, who has sold us our membranes (but he doesn't sell TDS meters).  Mark is very knowledgeable and offered this advice:

"When your water maker membranes are new, they will produce water at 100-200 ppm. 500 ppm is generally when the water will start to taste salty, and some yachties tolerate up to 700 ppm to extend the life of their membranes."

Although it is possible to have a complete sudden failure of the membranes, most of the time it will be a slow deteriation of the menbranes and give you ample notice, hense we are happy using the hand held TDS meter.

We purchased the TDS meter, made by Hanna Instruments, on ebay from National Industrial Supply in CA for about $15 (they only sell on ebay).  It comes in handy for testing the tap water when at a marina as well. We tested the water here in Venezuela and found it to be cleaner than bottled water, but the people don't drink it.  We do. 

We also have a chlorine tester on board (the optical type), to test local water for chlorine content, because lots of countries do not use chlorine in their water, thus you can use that chlorine-free water for cleaning your membranes.

Ruth
MOON DOG
SM 248




To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: karkauai@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:19:37 -0800
Subject: [Amel] Re: 60 l/hr dessalator


 



Hi, Gary,
Thank you, thank you, thank you.  That really helps.

Does anyone know if there have been similar issues with the older 60 l/hr units like mine, or was this an issue only with the 160 l/hr units?

While I am stuck here at the dock, I will find a watermaker supply and see about installing a charcoal filter, an in line sensor (if the test you suggest shows that the sensor in my unit isn't doing anything) and clean with metabisulfite.  If I find that my salinity sensor isn't shutting off the flow to the tanks I will talk to you about installing a cutoff switch to the solenoid. 

Again, thank you for taking the time to lead me along by the hand, Gary.  I love you folks on this forum.
Steady as she goes,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                         





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Amel] Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

karkauai
 

Thank you John and Richard. I'm on it like a duck on a June bug. (-:
Kent


Re: [Amel] Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi Kent most hardware stores carry cartridge type filters and charcoal replacements. We put ours in two places one before the water maker and one to filter the water as it comes out of the tank which gives us clean Ordovician c free water to everything. It is easy to install.
sm 209 For sale in Annapolis.
Regards
Richard Piller

On Mar 10, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi, Gary,
Thank you, thank you, thank you. That really helps.

Does anyone know if there have been similar issues with the older 60 l/hr units like mine, or was this an issue only with the 160 l/hr units?

While I am stuck here at the dock, I will find a watermaker supply and see about installing a charcoal filter, an in line sensor (if the test you suggest shows that the sensor in my unit isn't doing anything) and clean with metabisulfite. If I find that my salinity sensor isn't shutting off the flow to the tanks I will talk to you about installing a cutoff switch to the solenoid.

Again, thank you for taking the time to lead me along by the hand, Gary. I love you folks on this forum.
Steady as she goes,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

john martin <symoondog@...>
 

Hi Kent,

We had a similar problem with the salinity sensor built into the water maker, it stopped sensing that the water wasn't good enough quality. We now have a TDS Meter (Total Dissolved Solids Meter) onboard. It is a small battery powered water tester that reads up to 1000 parts per million (ppm). We bought the unit after talking to Mark at Great Water in Maine, who has sold us our membranes (but he doesn't sell TDS meters). Mark is very knowledgeable and offered this advice:

"When your water maker membranes are new, they will produce water at 100-200 ppm. 500 ppm is generally when the water will start to taste salty, and some yachties tolerate up to 700 ppm to extend the life of their membranes."

Although it is possible to have a complete sudden failure of the membranes, most of the time it will be a slow deteriation of the menbranes and give you ample notice, hense we are happy using the hand held TDS meter.

We purchased the TDS meter, made by Hanna Instruments, on ebay from National Industrial Supply in CA for about $15 (they only sell on ebay). It comes in handy for testing the tap water when at a marina as well. We tested the water here in Venezuela and found it to be cleaner than bottled water, but the people don't drink it. We do.

We also have a chlorine tester on board (the optical type), to test local water for chlorine content, because lots of countries do not use chlorine in their water, thus you can use that chlorine-free water for cleaning your membranes.

Ruth
MOON DOG
SM 248




To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: karkauai@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:19:37 -0800
Subject: [Amel] Re: 60 l/hr dessalator






Hi, Gary,
Thank you, thank you, thank you. That really helps.

Does anyone know if there have been similar issues with the older 60 l/hr units like mine, or was this an issue only with the 160 l/hr units?

While I am stuck here at the dock, I will find a watermaker supply and see about installing a charcoal filter, an in line sensor (if the test you suggest shows that the sensor in my unit isn't doing anything) and clean with metabisulfite. If I find that my salinity sensor isn't shutting off the flow to the tanks I will talk to you about installing a cutoff switch to the solenoid.

Again, thank you for taking the time to lead me along by the hand, Gary. I love you folks on this forum.
Steady as she goes,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Kent:

I just posted a pic in the photos section of my carbon filter installation. It was a very easy install.

This link should take you to it.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners/photos/album/1219017177/pic/813028894/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc

Gary

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, Kent Robertson <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi, Gary,
Thank you, thank you, thank you.  That really helps.
 
Does anyone know if there have been similar issues with the older 60 l/hr units like mine, or was this an issue only with the 160 l/hr units?
 
While I am stuck here at the dock, I will find a watermaker supply and see about installing a charcoal filter, an in line sensor (if the test you suggest shows that the sensor in my unit isn't doing anything) and clean with metabisulfite.  If I find that my salinity sensor isn't shutting off the flow to the tanks I will talk to you about installing a cutoff switch to the solenoid. 
 
Again, thank you for taking the time to lead me along by the hand, Gary.  I love you folks on this forum.
Steady as she goes,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Kent:

The thing I like about you kent is that you are continuously striving to understand your boat. I admire that.

You are most certainly welcome for the information. I have posted a lot of information in the Files section under this link relative to the watermaker:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners/files/Dessalator%20Technical%20Info/

Additionally I have an article on replacing the membranes in the same section.

I just re-read my "Chapter 2" in that section and on the last two pages I describe how to install a manual bypass switch.

It would be great if you could post some pictures of your 60 l/hr unit. If you want to send them to me, I could post them in a folder inside the photos section.

Gary

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, Kent Robertson <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi, Gary,
Thank you, thank you, thank you.  That really helps.
 
Does anyone know if there have been similar issues with the older 60 l/hr units like mine, or was this an issue only with the 160 l/hr units?
 
While I am stuck here at the dock, I will find a watermaker supply and see about installing a charcoal filter, an in line sensor (if the test you suggest shows that the sensor in my unit isn't doing anything) and clean with metabisulfite.  If I find that my salinity sensor isn't shutting off the flow to the tanks I will talk to you about installing a cutoff switch to the solenoid. 
 
Again, thank you for taking the time to lead me along by the hand, Gary.  I love you folks on this forum.
Steady as she goes,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Kent and Gary, My experience with pickling and non-pickling is much the same as Gary's--I used to pickle but now just flush the membranes with fresh water for about 15 minutes and leave the boat for some months without a problem.We have a 60lph Dessalator. Our first membranes lasted about 6 years and 1200 hours. During that time we did pickle on 3 occasions which possibly reduced the life of the membranes. Towards the end of their life I did clean the membranes with a cleaner used by a friend on his boat. From memory it consisted of two parts ( acid and alkali??) that came in powder form and which you mix with fresh water and flush through. At the time I did this we were in southern Chile with no access to new membranes. Cleaning the membranes certainly improved their performance but I would only regard it as a short term solution. Cheers, Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Spain

To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 00:54:41 +0000
Subject: [Amel] Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

Hi Kent:

Others have review somewhat of the history of the Dessalator water maker but let me correct a few things.

The time frame for discovering that the salinity sensor on the 160 l/hr watermaker was a sham installation (i.e. wasn't connected to anything on the circuit board) was 2006. Prior to that one other person had complained that their system didn't work properly and had caused salt water to destroy their washer etc. Our case was while on passage from Bermuda to the BVI. The membranes failed, the water maker bad water alarm never worked and our fresh water tanks were filled with sea water. This lead me on search for why the salinity sensor didn't function properly. I could re-hash months of inquiries to Amel, Dessalator, and my own research, but if you review the files and photos section you will see that Amel was snookered by Dessalator, Dessalator either knowingly or incompetently and un-knowingly installed sham salinity sensing, and only rectified the situation after the situation was brought to their attention by me.

The 2 minute change over on you system is a timer on the circuit board and has nothing to do with salinity regardless of the LED that show good water or bad water. The salinity sensor (the brown/orange plug on the tubing coming from the membranes in the engine room) has two wires that got to the circuit board in the control box, but the circuit board has no traces (contacts) where those wires are connected. As long as your membranes are producing good water you will be fine. THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU HAVE NO WAY, WITH THE STOCK SYSTEM, OF KNOWING DURING WATER PRODUCTION IF YOU HAVE GOOD WATER. YOU MIGHT SPOT CHECK IT WITH A HAND HELD METER BUT IF THE MEMBRANES FAIL 10 MINUTES AFTER YOU SPOT CHECK AND YOU HAVE A TWO HOUR WATER MAKING SESSION YOU WILL PUT 2 HOURS OF SEA WATER INTO YOUR FRESH WATER TANK. I have elected to continuously monitor the water production with an electronic salinity sensor that I have documented on this forum. I do understand the current replacement board from Dessalator works as advertised (i.e. it will detect salty product water and shut off the system or alarm, but I have no independent corroboration of that and I have little faith in Dessalator at this point (they never would confess their error or provide technical support to correct the problem beyond offering to sell me a new board for $900 US).

Thoughts on sanitizing the system/Pickling the system vs cleaning the system:

You can kill bacteria and other sea growth in your system by pickling the system or sanitizing the system. Pickling is just sanitizing and leaving the sanitizing solution in the system while the water maker sits idle for a period of time. You do this by filling the system (filters, pumps, membranes and all associated plumbing) with a solution of sodium metabisulfite ( a corrosive chemical used in the pharmaceutical industry to prevent bacterial growth in liquid drugs) Any water maker store will sell you a bottle of this stuff. It is hygroscopic. That means that if you leave the jar open it will absorb water from the air and turn to mush. The stronger the solution the more corrosive. I used to pickle my system every time I left the boat for a few months until I discovered that the bisulfite was eating all my stainless water maker parts, (pump shafts, membrane interconnect bobbin etc, see the photos section). I would recommend that you treat (BUT NOT PICKLE YOUR SYSTME), your system by 1: removing all the filters, replacing them with new filters, and flushing the filter canisters, 2. mixing up about 2 tablespoons of the metabisulfite powder in 3 gallons of water (a bucket), immersing the intake hose for the water maker in the bucket (i.e. take the hose off the sea water manifold, of course turning off the manifold first, and immersing the hose in the bucket of sterilizing solution), 3, turning on the water maker until the bucket is nearly dry (don't suck air as the high pressure pump will cavitate and that is harmful to the pump). Then let the system sit for an hour or so, 4. Then make water for 30 minutes with the system bypassing so that the product water doesn't go into your fresh water tank. To fully bypass you need to disconnect the solenoid valve on the back of the watermaker, because the original circuit board will switch the solenoid valve on at the 2 minute mark and the product water will go into your tank, (or better yet wire a bypass switch into that circuit (ask if you want to do this and I will walk you through it, it is extremely simple).

Your system is now sanitized (i.e. you have killed all living things in the system. However, there is another CLEANING process that involves running acid cleaners through the system, and I have never done that. This I have been told will clean out scale and salt and calcium deposits. Perhaps someone else will chime in about that.

I HAVEN'T PICKLED MY SYSTEM in 5 years, rather I have installed a timer that flushes my water maker with fresh water for 5 minutes every other day. I can leave the boat for 7 months at a time with some portable solar panels to keep the batteries up and the system will run through about 700 liters of water, flushing the water maker. While aboard I try to make water every day as membranes work best if used actively.

The Dessaltor system came in all kinds of variants but my 160 l/hr system has a low pressure feed pump, two pre-filters (25 micron and 5 micron), the high pressure pump, the membranes, a control box with the relays for the pumps, and the solenoid valve as well as the sham salinity sensor, and the control panel. I plumbed a carbon block filter (charcoal filter) so that when I flush the membranes the flush water goes through the charcoal filter to prevent any chlorine from getting to the membranes. Likewise I filter all the dock water added to the tank through a carbon filter for the same reason.

Kent, lastly, if you want to test your salinity sensor to see if it shuts off the system, simply remove it from it's site in the plumbing on the membranes, install a PVC pipe plug, run the system until it is making fresh water, then immerse the sensor in a cup of sea water. I dare say that you will see the system merely continues making water. If it shuts off or sounds an alarm then perhaps you have the new circuit board. An honorable company would have retro-fitted all the Amel at their own expense.

As you can tell, I have spent considerable time researching this, since I was so badly stung and I don't like be lied to. I hold no grudge towards Amel. I think they were lied to by Dessalator. If you have additional questions I would be happy to answer. This system is not complex but it does need to be understood to keep it running well.

All the best,
Gary Silver, M.D.





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

karkauai
 

Hi, Gary,
Thank you, thank you, thank you.  That really helps.
 
Does anyone know if there have been similar issues with the older 60 l/hr units like mine, or was this an issue only with the 160 l/hr units?
 
While I am stuck here at the dock, I will find a watermaker supply and see about installing a charcoal filter, an in line sensor (if the test you suggest shows that the sensor in my unit isn't doing anything) and clean with metabisulfite.  If I find that my salinity sensor isn't shutting off the flow to the tanks I will talk to you about installing a cutoff switch to the solenoid. 
 
Again, thank you for taking the time to lead me along by the hand, Gary.  I love you folks on this forum.
Steady as she goes,
Kent
SM243
KRISTY


Re: 60 l/hr dessalator

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Kent:

Others have review somewhat of the history of the Dessalator water maker but let me correct a few things.

The time frame for discovering that the salinity sensor on the 160 l/hr watermaker was a sham installation (i.e. wasn't connected to anything on the circuit board) was 2006. Prior to that one other person had complained that their system didn't work properly and had caused salt water to destroy their washer etc. Our case was while on passage from Bermuda to the BVI. The membranes failed, the water maker bad water alarm never worked and our fresh water tanks were filled with sea water. This lead me on search for why the salinity sensor didn't function properly. I could re-hash months of inquiries to Amel, Dessalator, and my own research, but if you review the files and photos section you will see that Amel was snookered by Dessalator, Dessalator either knowingly or incompetently and un-knowingly installed sham salinity sensing, and only rectified the situation after the situation was brought to their attention by me.

The 2 minute change over on you system is a timer on the circuit board and has nothing to do with salinity regardless of the LED that show good water or bad water. The salinity sensor (the brown/orange plug on the tubing coming from the membranes in the engine room) has two wires that got to the circuit board in the control box, but the circuit board has no traces (contacts) where those wires are connected. As long as your membranes are producing good water you will be fine. THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU HAVE NO WAY, WITH THE STOCK SYSTEM, OF KNOWING DURING WATER PRODUCTION IF YOU HAVE GOOD WATER. YOU MIGHT SPOT CHECK IT WITH A HAND HELD METER BUT IF THE MEMBRANES FAIL 10 MINUTES AFTER YOU SPOT CHECK AND YOU HAVE A TWO HOUR WATER MAKING SESSION YOU WILL PUT 2 HOURS OF SEA WATER INTO YOUR FRESH WATER TANK. I have elected to continuously monitor the water production with an electronic salinity sensor that I have documented on this forum. I do understand the current replacement board from Dessalator works as advertised (i.e. it will detect salty product water and shut off the system or alarm, but I have no independent corroboration of that and I have little faith in Dessalator at this point (they never would confess their error or provide technical support to correct the problem beyond offering to sell me a new board for $900 US).

Thoughts on sanitizing the system/Pickling the system vs cleaning the system:

You can kill bacteria and other sea growth in your system by pickling the system or sanitizing the system. Pickling is just sanitizing and leaving the sanitizing solution in the system while the water maker sits idle for a period of time. You do this by filling the system (filters, pumps, membranes and all associated plumbing) with a solution of sodium metabisulfite ( a corrosive chemical used in the pharmaceutical industry to prevent bacterial growth in liquid drugs) Any water maker store will sell you a bottle of this stuff. It is hygroscopic. That means that if you leave the jar open it will absorb water from the air and turn to mush. The stronger the solution the more corrosive. I used to pickle my system every time I left the boat for a few months until I discovered that the bisulfite was eating all my stainless water maker parts, (pump shafts, membrane interconnect bobbin etc, see the photos section). I would recommend that you treat (BUT NOT PICKLE YOUR SYSTME), your system by 1: removing all the filters, replacing them with new filters, and flushing the filter canisters, 2. mixing up about 2 tablespoons of the metabisulfite powder in 3 gallons of water (a bucket), immersing the intake hose for the water maker in the bucket (i.e. take the hose off the sea water manifold, of course turning off the manifold first, and immersing the hose in the bucket of sterilizing solution), 3, turning on the water maker until the bucket is nearly dry (don't suck air as the high pressure pump will cavitate and that is harmful to the pump). Then let the system sit for an hour or so, 4. Then make water for 30 minutes with the system bypassing so that the product water doesn't go into your fresh water tank. To fully bypass you need to disconnect the solenoid valve on the back of the watermaker, because the original circuit board will switch the solenoid valve on at the 2 minute mark and the product water will go into your tank, (or better yet wire a bypass switch into that circuit (ask if you want to do this and I will walk you through it, it is extremely simple).

Your system is now sanitized (i.e. you have killed all living things in the system. However, there is another CLEANING process that involves running acid cleaners through the system, and I have never done that. This I have been told will clean out scale and salt and calcium deposits. Perhaps someone else will chime in about that.

I HAVEN'T PICKLED MY SYSTEM in 5 years, rather I have installed a timer that flushes my water maker with fresh water for 5 minutes every other day. I can leave the boat for 7 months at a time with some portable solar panels to keep the batteries up and the system will run through about 700 liters of water, flushing the water maker. While aboard I try to make water every day as membranes work best if used actively.

The Dessaltor system came in all kinds of variants but my 160 l/hr system has a low pressure feed pump, two pre-filters (25 micron and 5 micron), the high pressure pump, the membranes, a control box with the relays for the pumps, and the solenoid valve as well as the sham salinity sensor, and the control panel. I plumbed a carbon block filter (charcoal filter) so that when I flush the membranes the flush water goes through the charcoal filter to prevent any chlorine from getting to the membranes. Likewise I filter all the dock water added to the tank through a carbon filter for the same reason.

Kent, lastly, if you want to test your salinity sensor to see if it shuts off the system, simply remove it from it's site in the plumbing on the membranes, install a PVC pipe plug, run the system until it is making fresh water, then immerse the sensor in a cup of sea water. I dare say that you will see the system merely continues making water. If it shuts off or sounds an alarm then perhaps you have the new circuit board. An honorable company would have retro-fitted all the Amel at their own expense.

As you can tell, I have spent considerable time researching this, since I was so badly stung and I don't like be lied to. I hold no grudge towards Amel. I think they were lied to by Dessalator. If you have additional questions I would be happy to answer. This system is not complex but it does need to be understood to keep it running well.

All the best,
Gary Silver, M.D.


Re: [Amel] Chain counter

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Pat there are also breaker up in the forward cabin port side ck those as well I'll ck If we have a fuse behind the meter and around the power supply. Those Sailor don't often go bad. Are you getting 12v output?

Regards
Richard Piller

On Mar 10, 2011, at 3:54 PM, sailw32@aol.com wrote:

Richard, The windlass itself is working and is turned on. I am thinking my
old sensor probably did not need to be replaced and I have a voltage
problem, probably have since the old stopped working . Thanks Pat

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]