Date   

Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Mike Ondra
 

Hi Bill,
Why does the Victron design with shore power feeding directly to the charger component need isolation while the previous scheme, also feeding only the charger, does not? It seems at least schematically that the isolation issue is the same in both configurations.
Mike Ondra
ALETES SM240



On Nov 30, 2020, at 10:59 PM, Karen Smith via groups.io <karenharmonie@...> wrote:

This year we decided to bite the bullet and replace our Onan.  Not because of intrinsic reliability issues, but because of a lack of spare parts availability from Onan.  We had several major routine maintenance issues coming up, and it was clear that parts just were not going to be available.

We looked at deck mounted, "walk-on" solar panels, but at a cost of about $10 a watt (!) the cost was very unattractive for a solution that still wasn't sufficient to meet all our needs.

You can find a detailed description of our logic and design process here:

https://fetchinketch.net/boat-projects/power-to-the-people/

The short form answer:  We analyzed how we use our boat, and our electrical needs, and came up with what has seems to be a very good solution for us.  A DC generator from Whisper-Power.  It is smaller, lighter, and much more efficient than the Onan (Light enough that the permanent list to port is GONE!).  It is the last piece of a long, steady modernization of our boat's electrical system.

With the addition of this generator, and a Victron Cerbo GX monitoring system, we finally see our systems set for comfortable, simple, extended off dock cruising for the foreseeable future.

Maybe the next time we need batteries (in 8 to 10 years), we will jump to a Li system, but for now we are staying with our Firefly Batteries that seem to give us 90% of the benefit for 50% of the cost.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA.


Re: engine exhaust high temp alarm Sea Chest Clog Alarm

Ian Park
 

I bought one from NASA, the boat instrument manufacturer. Cost @£82.00 including sensor which cable ties to the exhaust pipe. Easy to fit.
In Denmark last summer I neglected to turn the raw water seacock back on after cleaning out the strainer. Motored to fuel berth and filled up, started the engine again and within 15 seconds the exhaust alarm reminded me of my error! Saved my raw water pump impeller and seals plus a load more serious stuff. Should be a standard fitting for any boat especially in a weed prone area.

Ocean Hobo


Re: engine exhaust high temp alarm Sea Chest Clog Alarm

eric freedman
 

I did not bother to wire my sensor into the ignition switch, It is always on .

The photo attached was my motivation for installing the sensor.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: eric [mailto:kimberlite@...]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:49 PM
To: 'main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io'
Subject: RE: [AmelYachtOwners] engine exhaust high temp alarm Sea Chest Clog Alarm

 

Hi Miles,

Order one with both wires about 15 feet long, 24 volts. The stock setup comes with a short negative wire to be attached to normal engine wiring and a long positive wire.

I just ran mine along the wiring running across the forward end of the engine room with all the other wires and up into the port locker and along the back of the area where the rotary autopilot is usually mounted. I mounted the alarm enunciator in the wall of the companionway where the nameplate is mounted. There are plenty of places to pick up 24 volts near that position. If you hot wire it just put a small fuse in line with the unit. It’s a 1 hour project for 1 person.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

http://www.borelmfg.com/singraw.pdf

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Miles
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 4:29 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] engine exhaust high temp alarm Sea Chest Clog Alarm

 

Hi Eric,

 

I am sold on this and I am getting one.  Where did you take the power from?  Is yours 12V or 24 V (I guess that these questions have one answer).  Did you need a longer wire? 

 

As always, thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Miles

 

s/y Ladybug, sm 216,  in Le Marin, Martinique


Re: engine exhaust high temp alarm Sea Chest Clog Alarm

eric freedman
 

Hi Miles,

Order one with both wires about 15 feet long, 24 volts. The stock setup comes with a short negative wire to be attached to normal engine wiring and a long positive wire.

I just ran mine along the wiring running across the forward end of the engine room with all the other wires and up into the port locker and along the back of the area where the rotary autopilot is usually mounted. I mounted the alarm enunciator in the wall of the companionway where the nameplate is mounted. There are plenty of places to pick up 24 volts near that position. If you hot wire it just put a small fuse in line with the unit. It’s a 1 hour project for 1 person.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

http://www.borelmfg.com/singraw.pdf

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Miles
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 4:29 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] engine exhaust high temp alarm Sea Chest Clog Alarm

 

Hi Eric,

 

I am sold on this and I am getting one.  Where did you take the power from?  Is yours 12V or 24 V (I guess that these questions have one answer).  Did you need a longer wire? 

 

As always, thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Miles

 

s/y Ladybug, sm 216,  in Le Marin, Martinique


Re: Ho to Remove motor-gearbox of Port sheet winch

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Eric. However I got lucky. I blew all the rubbish out from around the brush assembly with an air gun. And it goes. I will check for tightness as you suggest.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 01 December 2020 at 17:35 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Danny,

I had a different problem with my winch. However I had to remove it to repair it.

If you reach to the top of the gearbox you will feel a number of socket head screws at the top of the gearbox assembly.. You cannot see them.

If you loosen these the whole assembly will drop down.

 

In my case the screws sheared off and caused the whole assembly to bang back and forth until the motor came apart. I made new screws to hold the motor together and replaced the socket head screws with grade 10 (black) screws and installed them with locktite.

 

The real problem is to put the motor back. You have to align the assembly and then put in a few screws to get the mounting process started.

You will be doing this blind with the heavy assembly over your head. I found that impossible.

 

 

I finally cut the heads off of a couple of slightly longer bolts and ground the cut off end to be slightly  rounded.

This allowed me to install the motor and while holding it up have someone else start a couple of socket head screws. Works like a charm.

There is also a thin plastic washer (isolation shim) at the top of the gearbox assembly that should be replaced.

 

I would suggest anyone reading this to have someone operate the winch for a second or two. If the gearbox-motor assembly moves. It’s time to change the bolts and make sure they are very tight.

I found my other winch to also be loose.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 2:59 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Port sheet winch

 

Thanks Adam, I am expecting to be able to refurbish/repair my winch but I will keep your advice re replacement in reserve. 
Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 01 December 2020 at 08:14 Adam Body <adamgcbody@...> wrote:

I have just replaced the same motor and gear box. I sourced the replacement from Mauripro, at a good price and with excellent service.  The unit is heavy so be careful pulling it off.
--
Adam Body "Flora"   SM128 Annee 1994

 



 


 


Re: Port sheet winch

eric freedman
 

Danny,

I had a different problem with my winch. However I had to remove it to repair it.

If you reach to the top of the gearbox you will feel a number of socket head screws at the top of the gearbox assembly.. You cannot see them.

If you loosen these the whole assembly will drop down.

 

In my case the screws sheared off and caused the whole assembly to bang back and forth until the motor came apart. I made new screws to hold the motor together and replaced the socket head screws with grade 10 (black) screws and installed them with locktite.

 

The real problem is to put the motor back. You have to align the assembly and then put in a few screws to get the mounting process started.

You will be doing this blind with the heavy assembly over your head. I found that impossible.

 

 

I finally cut the heads off of a couple of slightly longer bolts and ground the cut off end to be slightly  rounded.

This allowed me to install the motor and while holding it up have someone else start a couple of socket head screws. Works like a charm.

There is also a thin plastic washer (isolation shim) at the top of the gearbox assembly that should be replaced.

 

I would suggest anyone reading this to have someone operate the winch for a second or two. If the gearbox-motor assembly moves. It’s time to change the bolts and make sure they are very tight.

I found my other winch to also be loose.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 2:59 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Port sheet winch

 

Thanks Adam, I am expecting to be able to refurbish/repair my winch but I will keep your advice re replacement in reserve. 
Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 01 December 2020 at 08:14 Adam Body <adamgcbody@...> wrote:

I have just replaced the same motor and gear box. I sourced the replacement from Mauripro, at a good price and with excellent service.  The unit is heavy so be careful pulling it off.
--
Adam Body "Flora"   SM128 Annee 1994


Ho to Remove motor-gearbox of Port sheet winch

eric freedman
 

Danny,

I had a different problem with my winch. However I had to remove it to repair it.

If you reach to the top of the gearbox you will feel a number of socket head screws at the top of the gearbox assembly.. You cannot see them.

If you loosen these the whole assembly will drop down.

 

In my case the screws sheared off and caused the whole assembly to bang back and forth until the motor came apart. I made new screws to hold the motor together and replaced the socket head screws with grade 10 (black) screws and installed them with locktite.

 

The real problem is to put the motor back. You have to align the assembly and then put in a few screws to get the mounting process started.

You will be doing this blind with the heavy assembly over your head. I found that impossible.

 

 

I finally cut the heads off of a couple of slightly longer bolts and ground the cut off end to be slightly  rounded.

This allowed me to install the motor and while holding it up have someone else start a couple of socket head screws. Works like a charm.

There is also a thin plastic washer (isolation shim) at the top of the gearbox assembly that should be replaced.

 

I would suggest anyone reading this to have someone operate the winch for a second or two. If the gearbox-motor assembly moves. It’s time to change the bolts and make sure they are very tight.

I found my other winch to also be loose.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 2:59 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Port sheet winch

 

Thanks Adam, I am expecting to be able to refurbish/repair my winch but I will keep your advice re replacement in reserve. 
Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 01 December 2020 at 08:14 Adam Body <adamgcbody@...> wrote:

I have just replaced the same motor and gear box. I sourced the replacement from Mauripro, at a good price and with excellent service.  The unit is heavy so be careful pulling it off.
--
Adam Body "Flora"   SM128 Annee 1994


Re: Port sheet winch

David Kurtz
 

Thanks, Mark!  Timing is perfect.  Winch maintenance is on my winter to-do list.
--
Dave Kurtz
SM2 #380
S/V Celtic Cross

Detroit, Michigan


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Karen Smith
 

This year we decided to bite the bullet and replace our Onan.  Not because of intrinsic reliability issues, but because of a lack of spare parts availability from Onan.  We had several major routine maintenance issues coming up, and it was clear that parts just were not going to be available.

We looked at deck mounted, "walk-on" solar panels, but at a cost of about $10 a watt (!) the cost was very unattractive for a solution that still wasn't sufficient to meet all our needs.

You can find a detailed description of our logic and design process here:

https://fetchinketch.net/boat-projects/power-to-the-people/

The short form answer:  We analyzed how we use our boat, and our electrical needs, and came up with what has seems to be a very good solution for us.  A DC generator from Whisper-Power.  It is smaller, lighter, and much more efficient than the Onan (Light enough that the permanent list to port is GONE!).  It is the last piece of a long, steady modernization of our boat's electrical system.

With the addition of this generator, and a Victron Cerbo GX monitoring system, we finally see our systems set for comfortable, simple, extended off dock cruising for the foreseeable future.

Maybe the next time we need batteries (in 8 to 10 years), we will jump to a Li system, but for now we are staying with our Firefly Batteries that seem to give us 90% of the benefit for 50% of the cost.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA.


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Arno Luijten
 

You can also consider buying a smaller genset. We have the 11kVA Onan and my biggest problem running it is creating enough load for the beast to keep it happy. If your interest is just to charge the battteries and run the watermaker a 4kVA should be sufficient. That saves money as well.
Overhauling the alternator alone does not make much sense. The engine @ 8000 hrs is likely to become a cost liability as well, even if the expected lifespan is 12k hrs. Don’t forget the age of the system also causes risks, not just the running hours. Things like exahaust elbow, heat exchanger, seal-rings, etc. age not just by running hours.
My guess is that a full overhaul is not economical viable unless you have access to cheap parts and labour.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna 


Re: engine exhaust high temp alarm Sea Chest Clog Alarm

michael winand
 

I have a vetas  one installed. You can use the sensor from a car thermo fan switch. I have it located at the water injection point in the exhaust system. 
It will activate before the engine alarm. 
Michael Nebo sm251 


On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 at 7:29 am, Miles
<milesbid@...> wrote:

Hi Eric,

 

I am sold on this and I am getting one.  Where did you take the power from?  Is yours 12V or 24 V (I guess that these questions have one answer).  Did you need a longer wire? 

 

As always, thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Miles

 

s/y Ladybug, sm 216,  in Le Marin, Martinique


Re: engine exhaust high temp alarm Sea Chest Clog Alarm

Miles
 

Hi Eric,

 

I am sold on this and I am getting one.  Where did you take the power from?  Is yours 12V or 24 V (I guess that these questions have one answer).  Did you need a longer wire? 

 

As always, thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Miles

 

s/y Ladybug, sm 216,  in Le Marin, Martinique


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Mike Ondra
 

And maybe without the genset the mast would be vertical!   ; )

Which brings up the question of the weight of a full bank of lithium batteries?

Mike

ALETES SM#240 Rock Hall, MD

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Germain Jean-Pierre
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:34 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] ONAN replacement or not?

 

FWIW, I would proceed exactly as suggested on Aquarius 

 

A top tier lithium setup should not cost you as much as a new genset 

 

Good luck

 

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ

 



On 1/12/2020, at 9:00 AM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

You asked for opinions.....

With new solar, and lithium batteries the future of gensets has almost come to an end.  You can put 2KW of solar on deck with 900AH of LiFePO4 batteries (at 24V).  This would life better than getting a new GenSet.

Keep the genset though, you might use it about 50 hours per year, max, with the set up above.   And you might even get another 10 years of life out of that Onan.  Onan's are very good gensets!

Ken
Aquarius
SM2K#262


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

FWIW, I would proceed exactly as suggested on Aquarius 

A top tier lithium setup should not cost you as much as a new genset 

Good luck

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ



On 1/12/2020, at 9:00 AM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

You asked for opinions.....

With new solar, and lithium batteries the future of gensets has almost come to an end.  You can put 2KW of solar on deck with 900AH of LiFePO4 batteries (at 24V).  This would life better than getting a new GenSet.

Keep the genset though, you might use it about 50 hours per year, max, with the set up above.   And you might even get another 10 years of life out of that Onan.  Onan's are very good gensets!

Ken
Aquarius
SM2K#262


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

You asked for opinions.....

With new solar, and lithium batteries the future of gensets has almost come to an end.  You can put 2KW of solar on deck with 900AH of LiFePO4 batteries (at 24V).  This would life better than getting a new GenSet.

Keep the genset though, you might use it about 50 hours per year, max, with the set up above.   And you might even get another 10 years of life out of that Onan.  Onan's are very good gensets!

Ken
Aquarius
SM2K#262


Re: Port sheet winch

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Adam, I am expecting to be able to refurbish/repair my winch but I will keep your advice re replacement in reserve. 
Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 01 December 2020 at 08:14 Adam Body <adamgcbody@...> wrote:

I have just replaced the same motor and gear box. I sourced the replacement from Mauripro, at a good price and with excellent service.  The unit is heavy so be careful pulling it off.
--
Adam Body "Flora"   SM128 Annee 1994


Re: Port sheet winch

Adam Body
 

I have just replaced the same motor and gear box. I sourced the replacement from Mauripro, at a good price and with excellent service.  The unit is heavy so be careful pulling it off.
--
Adam Body "Flora"   SM128 Annee 1994


Re: Port sheet winch

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks for your input Nick. Mark has now posted the Lewmar manual which answers all my questions

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 30 November 2020 at 22:36 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Sorry did not mean to send that.

Bottom line is that I am sure you have found the problem. Carbon dust with oil leak to make it extra messy.

Nick
On 30 Nov 2020, at 09:33, Nick Newington < ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Danny if I remember correctly the motor and gear box are fitted to the vertical shaft that goes up to the winch with a keyway on the shaft and the gear box is bolted up to the deck/winch. I do not know if the bolts holding the gearbox up are threaded into a plate or if you need to remove the winch to access the nuts. On the windlass it was quite easy to lift off the capstan and access the 
On 30 Nov 2020, at 09:07, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Thanks Nick. I took the cover  off the brush mechanism. It is an oily mess in there with a gunge of catbon dust mixed in

 I dont know yet  if the gearbox has oil in it. If so I suspect the seal between the motor and the gearbox has failed and allowed oil to penetrate the motor. Brushes dont respond well to being covered in oil,it leads to short circuits.

So far I am working with the motor in place. I have yet to learn if it can be removed from the winch without dismatling the whole mecanism. I live in hope.

Thanks for your input.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

 
 
On 30 November 2020 at 21:29 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" < ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Danny, 
The motor looks pretty much the same as the motor for the windlass on my 54. 
On my windlass I had a similar problem as you describe. The motor also got hot.
I removed it and stripped it down. It was clogged with carbon dust from the brushes. 
I then put it back and it runs perfectly.
I suggest you see if the motor itself gets hot,  if so it could be the same problem.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019 Leros

 

On 30 Nov 2020, at 01:22, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Thanks Bill. It is drawing about 90 amps turning with no load so I suspect a friction problem but I will chase the control option first.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 30 November 2020 at 12:28 CW Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote:

Danny,

These are so reliable that there is very little experience in troubleshooting and repair. I have no experience and few owners have very little.

I don't know how to help, other than to say most issues have been control issues and not motor and gearbox. Please let me know when you find a solution. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 4:54 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Bill Yesterday the port sheet winch motor malfunctioned. When i tried to operate it  it would turn but in a few seconds slow to a stop as if it was overloaded. Obviously I immediately deactivated it. After a minute or so I tried again. Same result. Loaded or unloaded. The winch turns freely by hand and by winch handle so the problem is either in the motor or gearbox. Any suggestions. I have got under it and externally it looks fine. Do you know if its possible to separate the motor from the gearbox in situ. See photos attached

Thanks

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

 

 


 


 




 


 


Re: Port sheet winch

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thank you Mark, invaluable. 

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 01 December 2020 at 03:32 Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Attached is the Parts and Installation Manual for the Lewmar electric winches on our Amel.  Hope it will cover your winch also.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


ONAN replacement or not?

Alexander Ramseyer
 

Dear Amelians,
my MDKAW is on ca 8000 hrs and I'm thinking about a replacement before sailing to the Pacific. The new 9 kW model (Marine QD space safer) MDKDL was offered to me for USD 12'195 - no discount. So here are my 2 questions:

1. Does anyone know a source that sells ONAN at a discounted price? If necessary please use private e-mail (alexramseyer@...)

2. I understand that the diesel part of the generator should be good to be used up to 12000 hrs if maintained well. The electricity generating part however seems to be pretty much end of life at around 8000hrs. Does anyone have experience with renewing the electrical part? Does it makes sense to do that considering part and labor cost, assuming the revised gen-set will run at least another 4000h?
Thanks for sharing your experience,
Alex
s/v NO STRESS
currently in Carriacou