Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor chain

Nick Newington
 

Breaking strain on Limousine G70 is 11+metric tons.

I have never broken chain myself but I know of an Amel 54 that was lost in Suvarov Atol due to her chain breaking in a squall and pounding on a reef. (Google it )

My point is simple; on my last boat, a Bowman 46 of 10 tons low windage I used G40 10mm chain. 
On my  boat before her, “Faith of Norfolk” I used 10mm chain. She was 35 ft on deck gaff rugged cutter. 
Now on Amelia; 54 ft and 18 to 20 tons and relatively high windage G40 10mm does not sit easy with me. 

I would be content to go for 12mm G40 but then it would be heavy and probably not fit in the locker.

I am sure that you could sail around the world and never break G40 but.......then you should go for 8mm G70 it would be stronger. 

No to my mind Amel specified G70 for the 54’s for a good reason. You really should not cut corners on your chain.

Nick
Amelia (Amel 54 #019)


On 27 Aug 2018, at 21:02, Mark Pitt mark_pitt@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I recently purchased the G70 chain from Chaineries Limosines, Amel’s provider.  Their catalog gives a rupture strength of 6400 kg for the G40 and 11200 kg for the G70.  That is a 75 percent higher value for the G70.


Mark Pitt
Sabbatical III, SM419
Lanzarote, Canary Islands 


On Aug 27, 2018, at 8:08 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

A small correction:  The difference in strength between galvanized G40 and G70 is not anywhere near a factor of 2, it  is actually more like 20%.  G70 chain is, however, roughly 2X as strong as G30 ("BBB"), so that might be where that number comes from.

According to the data I have, the specified breaking strength for G40 is 16,200 lbs, while for G70 it is 19,800.  Working Load Limits (WLL) is usually specified for these kinds of alloy chains as 1/3 the breaking strength.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Get Micron 66 while you still can. After 6 years of using this paint we are battling to find it here in Asia or anywhere across the Indian Ocean, and need a re-paint soon. 

Seems most countries out this way are going to Micron Extra instead. From our experience Micron 66 is better than Micron 77 and Micron 33. Nice to hear it is still sold in the Caribbean where we are headed after South Africa. It has been great anti-foul paint for us.

Colin, SV Island Pearl II
SM #332 Mahajunga, Madagascar (waiting for weather window to head for South Africa - no Micron 66 sold there either)


On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 5:52 PM 'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for sharing the experiences.  I think that I will get a couple gallons, light sand and focus on the waterline, bow and rudder.  


My plans are to haul again next hurricane season and then apply a proper two coats at that time, with 3rd coat at waterline and leading edges.


Best regards, Dan & Lori Carlson on SM387, sv BeBe 




 


Dan & Lori,

We use a similar ablative paint, and put on two coats every haul out. In the Caribbean 24 months is pushing it, but it you clean regularly it works.  With ablative paints be sure to clean gently, you do not want to be scrubbing off the paint!

An extra coat within a foot of the waterline, the bow, and the leading edge of the keel, and rudder also help.

I have had excellent experience with Micron66 in the colder waters of San Francisco Bay on my old boat.  We have avoided using it on Harmonie because we regularly end up going places with relatively fresh water (e.g., Florida Rivers, and the upper Chesapeake).  Micron 66 fails in very short order in freshwater. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA




---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Dan,

 

I slap a couple of coats on whenever I haul. The Micron 66 is ablative and is going to flake off as it is designed to do. Last summer in Grenada, we put three coats on. It had been two and half year since the last haul and the bottom paint was thin.  When we hauled in Curacao (unexpectedly) a couple of months ago, we had them put two coats on after a light sand. We have no issues with growth or barnacles.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 10:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

 

 

Hello Amel owners,  I know from discussions that many of you use Micron 66 bottom paint in the Caribbean. I'm looking for responses from those with specific experience.  I put 2 coats on the bottom of my boat in Nov of 2017 and sailed the eastern Caribbean for 7 months. We hauled in Curacao last June (the bottom was very clean). We go back in November to sail the western Caribbean for the next 7 months with plans to haul again in June of 2019.  Question for those who have done something similar. Do you just scuff the boat and relaunch and only paint every other year? Or do you put a fresh coat on each year while the boat is out and dry? Looking for boaters with actual experience with this scenario.  As an added note, when the water is clean I regularly go for a swim with a scrubber to keep the bottom clean.  I have the idea that we may be in more places in the western Caribben where I might not want to do that as often.  

 

Thanks, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM387, sv BeBe



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor chain

greatketch@...
 

Chain standards are so....  un-standard!  

Chaineries Limosines claims (and I believe them) that their "Force 7" brand chain is 25% stronger than industry standard G70.  Good for them... 

I see in the Chaineries Limosines catalog two different values for G32 chain, (Chaines cable standard (Norme Grade 32))  5100kg (Industry standard)  and 6400kg (for their "CLi special" grade).  Pretty much what I'd expect.  Their "CLi" grade chain is stronger than industry standard G30, and weaker than industry standard G40.

I could find no rupture testing numbers for G40...

No matter... the take away story is to always check the manufacturer's actual test data for the exact grade you are buying whatever brand chain you choose and be sure you actually get what you are expecting and that you are comparing exactly what you think you are comparing.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <mark_pitt@...> wrote :

I recently purchased the G70 chain from Chaineries Limosines, Amel’s provider.  Their catalog gives a rupture strength of 6400 kg for the G40 and 11200 kg for the G70.  That is a 75 percent higher value for the G70.

Mark Pitt
Sabbatical III, SM419
Lanzarote, Canary Islands 


On Aug 27, 2018, at 8:08 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

A small correction:  The difference in strength between galvanized G40 and G70 is not anywhere near a factor of 2, it  is actually more like 20%.  G70 chain is, however, roughly 2X as strong as G30 ("BBB"), so that might be where that number comes from.

According to the data I have, the specified breaking strength for G40 is 16,200 lbs, while for G70 it is 19,800.  Working Load Limits (WLL) is usually specified for these kinds of alloy chains as 1/3 the breaking strength.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Super Maramu keel bolts size

Alin Misescu
 

Hello everyone. My boat, Wanderer, SM #283 undergoes extensive upgrading and maintenance in NZ. She will be a skippered charter in Bay of Islands. As part of the process , my surveyor wants to check keel bolts. I found an option to ultrasound them, but they were asking for all the keel bolts size and specs of material. Can someone please help me with this? I need to know diameter, length and material specs ( what sort of SS). Thank you. All the best from Alin, Wanderer SM2k#283


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor chain

Mark Pitt
 

I recently purchased the G70 chain from Chaineries Limosines, Amel’s provider.  Their catalog gives a rupture strength of 6400 kg for the G40 and 11200 kg for the G70.  That is a 75 percent higher value for the G70.

Mark Pitt
Sabbatical III, SM419
Lanzarote, Canary Islands 


On Aug 27, 2018, at 8:08 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

A small correction:  The difference in strength between galvanized G40 and G70 is not anywhere near a factor of 2, it  is actually more like 20%.  G70 chain is, however, roughly 2X as strong as G30 ("BBB"), so that might be where that number comes from.

According to the data I have, the specified breaking strength for G40 is 16,200 lbs, while for G70 it is 19,800.  Working Load Limits (WLL) is usually specified for these kinds of alloy chains as 1/3 the breaking strength.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor chain

greatketch@...
 

A small correction:  The difference in strength between galvanized G40 and G70 is not anywhere near a factor of 2, it  is actually more like 20%.  G70 chain is, however, roughly 2X as strong as G30 ("BBB"), so that might be where that number comes from.

According to the data I have, the specified breaking strength for G40 is 16,200 lbs, while for G70 it is 19,800.  Working Load Limits (WLL) is usually specified for these kinds of alloy chains as 1/3 the breaking strength.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor chain

Nick Newington
 

Hi Paul,

I too have an Amel 54 and am replacing my rusty chain. 

If you have the same as me it will be 10mm ISO and grade 70.

There are two options on the galvanised chain readily available, namely grade 40 or grade 70. The strength of the 70 is about double that of the 40. 

I could not find 70 in the West indies so waited until I came back to Europe. Amel originally specified grade 70.from Chaineries Limousines. So that is what I have ordered and at a very good price: 100m for  about 1200 euros delivered to the Canary islands.

To answer you question on measuring: the best way is to count ten links; if the length is 315 mm then it is ISO if it is 295 then it is DIN. Then the thickness of the actual wire will be either 10mm or 12mm. In practice the ten links may be slightly more say 320mm due to stretch. 

Nick

Amelia( Amel 54 Tenerife)

On 27 Aug 2018, at 18:00, sharongbrown@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi all,

Some questions about anchor chain:

1. How do Iknow what size it is? Do I measure the internal/external longways diameter of a link?
2. Should I be concerned about a bit of rust - is there a point at which I should know it needs replacing?
3. What is the best type of chain available in the WIndwards/Leewards to replace it with?

Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98





Anchor chain

ya_fohi
 

Hi all,

Some questions about anchor chain:

1. How do Iknow what size it is? Do I measure the internal/external longways diameter of a link?
2. Should I be concerned about a bit of rust - is there a point at which I should know it needs replacing?
3. What is the best type of chain available in the WIndwards/Leewards to replace it with?

Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Patrick McAneny
 

Bob, That looks like a good price on the seat , 33% off , significantly less than on Ebay. I just order one and shipping was free.
Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 8:54 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 
Bob,

You are correct.  The manufacturer in China got back to me and said that Vetus is their main reseller in the USA.

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale MD USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <rossidesigngroup@...> wrote :

I think Vetus sells one they call the Ferry seat....should have a US supplier...  https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/product/VTSCHTBSW.html
(sold without pedestal)

Bob, KAIMI SM 429
Cannes


Re: Santorin spinnaker question

greatketch@...
 

Herbert,

The stainless part that Olivier photographed is called by riggers in the USA a "Spinnaker Crane."  

There are several models available prefabricated commercially.  I am not sure if any of the available models are large/strong enough, but if you can find an appropriate one it might be more economical than a fully custom project.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: Santorin spinnaker question

Herbert Lackner
 

Hi Olivier,  thx for the pictures, this was exactly what I was looking for.  I will do it in a similar way. you are always such a great help!

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

rossirossix4
 

I think Vetus sells one they call the Ferry seat....should have a US supplier...  https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/product/VTSCHTBSW.html
(sold without pedestal)

Bob, KAIMI SM 429
Cannes


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks John,
i don't have any difficulty...I have the seat!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

JOHN HAYES
 

Alan if you have difficulty I could possibly help; but not until the last week in September when I return to NZ from Central Asia.

 

My direct email is johnhayes862@...

 

Cheers

 

John Hayes

Ngawaka

 

Wellington

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners]
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2018 5:59 a.m.
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 

 

Alan's nav station seat appears to be manufactured in China by a company called Eastsun Marine:  http://www.eastsunmarine.com/eastsun/EnProductShow.asp?ID=152

 

I could not find it for sale anywhere except for where Alan purchased it, Burnsco in New Zealand:  https://www.burnsco.co.nz/shop/boating/seating-carpet-covers/seating/deluxe-flip-back-seat

 

I sent the company an email to see if they would ship to the USA, and if so, how much.  I will let you know if I hear back from them.

 

Mark McGovern

SM #440 Cara

Deale, MD USA

 

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Iridium Go Antenna

karkauai
 

That’s where mine is, Pat.

I get great reception and couldn’t be happier with it.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Aug 25, 2018, at 10:26 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

The easiest place for me to mount the antenna would be on the very aft starboard railing , however that means the antenna would be partially blocked from a clear view of the sky by my arch with solar panels. I guess one quadrant would be blocked , I know the signal would be better with a clear view ,but is it essential to having a good signal? It is the same location as my GPS antenna and those signals seem strong.

Thanks,

Pat

SM123



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Iridium Go Antenna

Patrick McAneny
 

If you want you can disregard the question/post about the Iridium Go antenna. I spoke with a tech support ,that did not think it a problem.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sat, Aug 25, 2018 4:13 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Iridium Go Antenna

 
The easiest place for me to mount the antenna would be on the very aft starboard railing , however that means the antenna would be partially blocked from a clear view of the sky by my arch with solar panels. I guess one quadrant would be blocked , I know the signal would be better with a clear view ,but is it essential to having a good signal? It is the same location as my GPS antenna and those signals seem strong.
Thanks,
Pat
SM123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Patrick McAneny
 

Thanks Joel ,good to know.
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners Sent: Sat, Aug 25, 2018 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 
Pat, the low pressure gauge failure is not uncommon. About one third of the Amels I get for resale have failed low pressure gauges and owners who have replaced them more than once...

JOEL F. POTTER
CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST LLC
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
Office 954-462-5869 

On Aug 25, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Right or wrong,good or bad, I went ahead and ran it in our fresh/brackish Sassafras River. After three years idle all went well , no leaks but I never went above 140 Lt/hr. and no where near the green zone. My low pressure gauge has never worked , it could be because I installed the system and did something wrong. Am I correct in assuming the LP pump must be working ,otherwise I would not be able to produce water ? I ran it six months like that and always got up to 160/hr. Any hints why the gauge may not be working.
Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sat, Aug 25, 2018 2:28 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 
PS: A little more reading on Filmtec was interesting in that their BW and FW are indeed manufactured to very different specs than the SW, being designed for constant use in those waters.  Less pressure is used and thus energy savings are had. They've even got special membranes for maple syrup!  Who 'da thunk? An extensive technology behind it all well beyond our SW marine membranes (which are happy with BW or FW).
Craig 


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote

Hi Gary,
Yes, the reply Alan got from Dessaltator sounds very much like the reply I got from Alden Barbour that you can only use sea water to cool your refrig. At least they were straightforward enough to say that's because of the remote possibility of the freon line breaking into your water tank and you might sue them, not for any engineering reason.

The U-Tube link you gave in your post is the one I noted earlier of Rich Boren of Cruise RO saying there's no problem running your watermaker in fresh water, just keep the pressure down. So, he says, go ahead and sail the brackish Chesapeake or fresh Great Lakes and clean with fresh. Combine that with the Filmtec letter saying no problem and it's pretty clear Dessalator is simply in PYA mode. 

It would be interesting to see if Filmtec would supply an explanation of any technical difference in their membranes designated for salt/brackish/fresh water membranes? It sounds like marketing, not engineering, or, possibly, the BW and FW membranes are engineered such that they will pass salts but not bacteria so one could use  the SW in BW or FW but not vice versa, but I'm just guessing on that. 

Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyac htowners@..., wrote :

I find that reply from Dessalator quite intriguing.  I cannot speak to that statement exactly, because my watermaker was 'hybridized' some time ago and is not purely Dessalator any more but here is one possibility why they (Dessalator) would be so adamant about fresh water usage. 

Even though the the membrane(s) are fine pushing low volumes of fresh water through them when rinsing or even when doing the "double-RO" function, it is not what they were designed for.  The membranes from Filmetch come in specific version for salt water, brackish water and fresh water.  The one I have installed is definitely bred for saltwater (Model SW30-2540).  The SW actually stands for Sea Water.  There are BW (Brackish Water, TW (freshwater or Tap Water) and a couple of others I think (a nano-filter and a low energy usage membrane). 

At any rate, the SW30-2540 membrane is indeed technically designed for Sea Water so I get where Dessalator is coming from.  However, talking with two different water maker experts (Cruise RO and Dessalator Malta) and coupled with my own experience I will say that testing and backflushing with filtered fresh water, even running the high pressure pump to provide a testable water sample would not cause harm. As mentioned, don't let the flow go high, as fresh water will pass cleanly through the membrane at much lower pressure). 

I would not, however, use the watermaker in fresh or brackish water for the long term without swapping to a purpose-designed membrane for it. 

Here's a brief video on the subject.  ... https://youtu.be/Ht2B3lpFbdQ 


There you have an "official" 2 cents worth :)

Gary W.
s/v Adagio
Malta



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Alan Leslie
 

Interestingly on Page 26 ...it says "....the VETUS desalinator......"

Were VETUS selling Dessalator products at that time ? ....or ....??

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

amelforme
 

Pat, the low pressure gauge failure is not uncommon. About one third of the Amels I get for resale have failed low pressure gauges and owners who have replaced them more than once...

JOEL F. POTTER
CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST LLC
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
Office 954-462-5869 

On Aug 25, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Right or wrong,good or bad, I went ahead and ran it in our fresh/brackish Sassafras River. After three years idle all went well , no leaks but I never went above 140 Lt/hr. and no where near the green zone. My low pressure gauge has never worked , it could be because I installed the system and did something wrong. Am I correct in assuming the LP pump must be working ,otherwise I would not be able to produce water ? I ran it six months like that and always got up to 160/hr. Any hints why the gauge may not be working.

Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sat, Aug 25, 2018 2:28 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 
PS: A little more reading on Filmtec was interesting in that their BW and FW are indeed manufactured to very different specs than the SW, being designed for constant use in those waters.  Less pressure is used and thus energy savings are had. They've even got special membranes for maple syrup!  Who 'da thunk? An extensive technology behind it all well beyond our SW marine membranes (which are happy with BW or FW).
Craig 


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote

Hi Gary,
Yes, the reply Alan got from Dessaltator sounds very much like the reply I got from Alden Barbour that you can only use sea water to cool your refrig. At least they were straightforward enough to say that's because of the remote possibility of the freon line breaking into your water tank and you might sue them, not for any engineering reason.

The U-Tube link you gave in your post is the one I noted earlier of Rich Boren of Cruise RO saying there's no problem running your watermaker in fresh water, just keep the pressure down. So, he says, go ahead and sail the brackish Chesapeake or fresh Great Lakes and clean with fresh. Combine that with the Filmtec letter saying no problem and it's pretty clear Dessalator is simply in PYA mode. 

It would be interesting to see if Filmtec would supply an explanation of any technical difference in their membranes designated for salt/brackish/fresh water membranes? It sounds like marketing, not engineering, or, possibly, the BW and FW membranes are engineered such that they will pass salts but not bacteria so one could use  the SW in BW or FW but not vice versa, but I'm just guessing on that. 

Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyac htowners@..., wrote :

I find that reply from Dessalator quite intriguing.  I cannot speak to that statement exactly, because my watermaker was 'hybridized' some time ago and is not purely Dessalator any more but here is one possibility why they (Dessalator) would be so adamant about fresh water usage. 

Even though the the membrane(s) are fine pushing low volumes of fresh water through them when rinsing or even when doing the "double-RO" function, it is not what they were designed for.  The membranes from Filmetch come in specific version for salt water, brackish water and fresh water.  The one I have installed is definitely bred for saltwater (Model SW30-2540).  The SW actually stands for Sea Water.  There are BW (Brackish Water, TW (freshwater or Tap Water) and a couple of others I think (a nano-filter and a low energy usage membrane). 

At any rate, the SW30-2540 membrane is indeed technically designed for Sea Water so I get where Dessalator is coming from.  However, talking with two different water maker experts (Cruise RO and Dessalator Malta) and coupled with my own experience I will say that testing and backflushing with filtered fresh water, even running the high pressure pump to provide a testable water sample would not cause harm. As mentioned, don't let the flow go high, as fresh water will pass cleanly through the membrane at much lower pressure). 

I would not, however, use the watermaker in fresh or brackish water for the long term without swapping to a purpose-designed membrane for it. 

Here's a brief video on the subject.  ... https://youtu.be/Ht2B3lpFbdQ 


There you have an "official" 2 cents worth :)

Gary W.
s/v Adagio
Malta



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Patrick McAneny
 

Right or wrong,good or bad, I went ahead and ran it in our fresh/brackish Sassafras River. After three years idle all went well , no leaks but I never went above 140 Lt/hr. and no where near the green zone. My low pressure gauge has never worked , it could be because I installed the system and did something wrong. Am I correct in assuming the LP pump must be working ,otherwise I would not be able to produce water ? I ran it six months like that and always got up to 160/hr. Any hints why the gauge may not be working.
Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sat, Aug 25, 2018 2:28 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 
PS: A little more reading on Filmtec was interesting in that their BW and FW are indeed manufactured to very different specs than the SW, being designed for constant use in those waters.  Less pressure is used and thus energy savings are had. They've even got special membranes for maple syrup!  Who 'da thunk? An extensive technology behind it all well beyond our SW marine membranes (which are happy with BW or FW).
Craig 


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote

Hi Gary,
Yes, the reply Alan got from Dessaltator sounds very much like the reply I got from Alden Barbour that you can only use sea water to cool your refrig. At least they were straightforward enough to say that's because of the remote possibility of the freon line breaking into your water tank and you might sue them, not for any engineering reason.

The U-Tube link you gave in your post is the one I noted earlier of Rich Boren of Cruise RO saying there's no problem running your watermaker in fresh water, just keep the pressure down. So, he says, go ahead and sail the brackish Chesapeake or fresh Great Lakes and clean with fresh. Combine that with the Filmtec letter saying no problem and it's pretty clear Dessalator is simply in PYA mode. 

It would be interesting to see if Filmtec would supply an explanation of any technical difference in their membranes designated for salt/brackish/fresh water membranes? It sounds like marketing, not engineering, or, possibly, the BW and FW membranes are engineered such that they will pass salts but not bacteria so one could use  the SW in BW or FW but not vice versa, but I'm just guessing on that. 

Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyac htowners@..., wrote :

I find that reply from Dessalator quite intriguing.  I cannot speak to that statement exactly, because my watermaker was 'hybridized' some time ago and is not purely Dessalator any more but here is one possibility why they (Dessalator) would be so adamant about fresh water usage. 

Even though the the membrane(s) are fine pushing low volumes of fresh water through them when rinsing or even when doing the "double-RO" function, it is not what they were designed for.  The membranes from Filmetch come in specific version for salt water, brackish water and fresh water.  The one I have installed is definitely bred for saltwater (Model SW30-2540).  The SW actually stands for Sea Water.  There are BW (Brackish Water, TW (freshwater or Tap Water) and a couple of others I think (a nano-filter and a low energy usage membrane). 

At any rate, the SW30-2540 membrane is indeed technically designed for Sea Water so I get where Dessalator is coming from.  However, talking with two different water maker experts (Cruise RO and Dessalator Malta) and coupled with my own experience I will say that testing and backflushing with filtered fresh water, even running the high pressure pump to provide a testable water sample would not cause harm. As mentioned, don't let the flow go high, as fresh water will pass cleanly through the membrane at much lower pressure). 

I would not, however, use the watermaker in fresh or brackish water for the long term without swapping to a purpose-designed membrane for it. 

Here's a brief video on the subject.  ... https://youtu.be/Ht2B3lpFbdQ 


There you have an "official" 2 cents worth :)

Gary W.
s/v Adagio
Malta