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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

John Clark
 

I certainly hope Micron 66 is OK as we have 7 gallons onboard for our upcoming haulout.  Boat has 2 year old ablative already.  My intention is like Mark to have a light sanding then two coats of 66.  Will let you know how it works out over next two years. 

                   John
John Clark
SV Annie SM #37
Le Marin

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 3:11 PM 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dan,

 

I slap a couple of coats on whenever I haul. The Micron 66 is ablative and is going to flake off as it is designed to do. Last summer in Grenada, we put three coats on. It had been two and half year since the last haul and the bottom paint was thin.  When we hauled in Curacao (unexpectedly) a couple of months ago, we had them put two coats on after a light sand. We have no issues with growth or barnacles.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 10:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

 

 

Hello Amel owners,  I know from discussions that many of you use Micron 66 bottom paint in the Caribbean. I'm looking for responses from those with specific experience.  I put 2 coats on the bottom of my boat in Nov of 2017 and sailed the eastern Caribbean for 7 months. We hauled in Curacao last June (the bottom was very clean). We go back in November to sail the western Caribbean for the next 7 months with plans to haul again in June of 2019.  Question for those who have done something similar. Do you just scuff the boat and relaunch and only paint every other year? Or do you put a fresh coat on each year while the boat is out and dry? Looking for boaters with actual experience with this scenario.  As an added note, when the water is clean I regularly go for a swim with a scrubber to keep the bottom clean.  I have the idea that we may be in more places in the western Caribben where I might not want to do that as often.  

 

Thanks, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM387, sv BeBe

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152 [1 Attachment]

John Clark
 

Hi Porter, that was the size the previous owners used.  Changed annually(according to the logs) for the 16 yrs they owned the vessel.  The racor I have is rated for gallons per minute, not sure the number but much more than our sailboat engines will ever consume.  

The filter on the motor(s) looked very old from the outside and were also 2 micron.  I don't think they were changed like the racor.  The inside of the motor filters looked clean and new. 

           John 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 1:39 PM Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
[Attachment(s) from Porter McRoberts included below]

For how long John?  

I am thinking a double double racor would be the way to go. 
What’s the internal rail diameter on these engines? Should not the last filter be smaller that the rail?

New long block in as we speak. 

Thank you everyone for all the help. 





Porter 
Ibis A54-110 
Panama City


Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 24, 2018, at 8:14 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi All,
   with our TAMD22 we ran a 2 micon Racor without issue.    

                  John
SV Annie SM #37
Le Marin  


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:42 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thomas and Bill 
Good points. I’m still learning to handle a modern Diesel Engine. 

Maybe it is better to go for 1-2 micron Racor filter instead of the recommended 10 micron in order to filter out as much as possible. Or does the Engine suffer from the reduced flow rate?

Cheers
Ruedi 
Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABI“, Amel 54. #55
Korfu

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 22. August 2018 um 21:24
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 


That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 
I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 


Best,


Thomas
soon back onboard 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curaçao



On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 



I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

Mark Erdos
 

Dan,

 

I slap a couple of coats on whenever I haul. The Micron 66 is ablative and is going to flake off as it is designed to do. Last summer in Grenada, we put three coats on. It had been two and half year since the last haul and the bottom paint was thin.  When we hauled in Curacao (unexpectedly) a couple of months ago, we had them put two coats on after a light sand. We have no issues with growth or barnacles.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 10:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

 

 

Hello Amel owners,  I know from discussions that many of you use Micron 66 bottom paint in the Caribbean. I'm looking for responses from those with specific experience.  I put 2 coats on the bottom of my boat in Nov of 2017 and sailed the eastern Caribbean for 7 months. We hauled in Curacao last June (the bottom was very clean). We go back in November to sail the western Caribbean for the next 7 months with plans to haul again in June of 2019.  Question for those who have done something similar. Do you just scuff the boat and relaunch and only paint every other year? Or do you put a fresh coat on each year while the boat is out and dry? Looking for boaters with actual experience with this scenario.  As an added note, when the water is clean I regularly go for a swim with a scrubber to keep the bottom clean.  I have the idea that we may be in more places in the western Caribben where I might not want to do that as often.  

 

Thanks, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM387, sv BeBe
Re: Nigel Calder & Aric Euler at the SSCA Annapolis GAM

Mike Ondra
 

I am interested in attending this event on Sunday in advance of the Rendezvous in St. Michaels. Anyone Else?
 Logistically the Maryland YC is across the Bay from Rock Hall in Pasadena, MD and about 40nm from St. Michaels. Since Aletes in in Rock Hall (about 10 nm from Pasadena) I plan to sail over to Pasadena Saturday afternoon/evening, attend the events on Sunday, and sail on to St. Michaels on Monday. If anyone is interested in hitchhiking let me know.
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM#240
Rock Hall, MD
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

CW Bill Rouse
 

Craig,

Yes, Dessalator has a flow gauge and a pressure gauge. The pressure gauge on all since about 1990 only has a "green zone" without any indication of actual pressure.

I believe that Dessalator's intention is to make it very simple for the least informed of their customers, and to include instructions, which if followed, cannot harm the system. Frankly, I would do the same if I were them.

I have had a difficult time becoming accustomed with a society that has to seek out others to blame for personal mistakes. The good news is I have much less time to deal with that, than I have spent dealing with it. I am definitely on the downhill side.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 11:55 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,

Not sure that's "another" perspective, but one certainly can't blame any manufacturer for making things "idiot proof" or "child proof", although that can be a turnoff for customers who are neither. 

My watermaker has a high pressure gauge marked in bars and psi plus a product water flow gauge (clear tube thingy with ball float and graduations marked for lpm and gph), Crank up the pressure until the product flow is 20 gph and check the hi pressure for fine tuning. Does the Dessalator not have a product water flow gauge?  Ah, those Frenchies!

Cheers, Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

Here is another prospective...I am not sure which is right.

I was in manufacturing for many years. All manufactures have to be very careful that their products are not misused because the umbrella generation will sue when something goes wrong that they were "allowed" to do. 

The Dessalator system has a "green" zone for the high pressure setting, which makes it simple and easy to use for half of users that do not know what they do not know. Probably, what many of us would like to see is BAR at specific salinity and temperature...BUT, Dessalator knows that they have to design something for the simple-minded user. Therefore, since they are basically forced to make the watermaker "child proof" we have the green zone on the HP gauge. And, since we have the green zone, a non-expert could and probably would over-pressurize for fresh or brackish water, which will cause issues.

I used the term "child proof" with the product development folks that reported to me. I would always ask if the new product was child proof and for their explanation...they knew what I meant.

Best,

Bill Rouse

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 9:39 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Alan,


You should be able to find CruiseRO Water and Power on the internet.  Try this link.
He very effectively clears up the no-fresh-water myth and also gives the technical explanation of how fresh water at high pressure will destroy a membrane.

The Filmtec notes you quote are pretty clear that fresh (or brackish) water is no problem.

The Dessalator warning is clearly one of those cover-your-ass disclaimers to prevent customer complaints and claims like the one discussed here recently from Alden Barbour warning against using tank water to cool the refrigerant. That was because of the remote possibility the line might rupture in the tank and contaminate the drinking water and kill you when you drink it, or the user might let the tank water run low and have inadequate cooling and complain on some cruisers' forum and give Alden Barbour a bad name.

Sure, you can, indeed, blow out your RO membrane if you run it with fresh feed water at high pressure. 
Uh, don't do that.

Cheers,
Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@...,
I'm now not so sure about this fresh water business.


In the Dessalator Duo 60 manual  it says:

Remember: The biggest enemy of the membranes is fresh water.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system
(pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no
pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making
freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise).
When running the watermaker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut it self
down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the watermaker is ready for use.


I have the Filmtec Membrane Technical Manual and I can find no discussion of this at all anywhere.

In fact a number of systems are illustrated that
1. Treat Brackish water
2. RO the RO water (double RO) to make ultrapure water.

So I don;t know where this freshwater enemy story comes from......nothing on a Google search.

If it really was a problem I would think Filmtec would warn about it.

Alan
Elyse SM437
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Bill,
Not sure that's "another" perspective, but one certainly can't blame any manufacturer for making things "idiot proof" or "child proof", although that can be a turnoff for customers who are neither. 

My watermaker has a high pressure gauge marked in bars and psi plus a product water flow gauge (clear tube thingy with ball float and graduations marked for lpm and gph), Crank up the pressure until the product flow is 20 gph and check the hi pressure for fine tuning. Does the Dessalator not have a product water flow gauge?  Ah, those Frenchies!

Cheers, Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

Here is another prospective...I am not sure which is right.

I was in manufacturing for many years. All manufactures have to be very careful that their products are not misused because the umbrella generation will sue when something goes wrong that they were "allowed" to do. 

The Dessalator system has a "green" zone for the high pressure setting, which makes it simple and easy to use for half of users that do not know what they do not know. Probably, what many of us would like to see is BAR at specific salinity and temperature...BUT, Dessalator knows that they have to design something for the simple-minded user. Therefore, since they are basically forced to make the watermaker "child proof" we have the green zone on the HP gauge. And, since we have the green zone, a non-expert could and probably would over-pressurize for fresh or brackish water, which will cause issues.

I used the term "child proof" with the product development folks that reported to me. I would always ask if the new product was child proof and for their explanation...they knew what I meant.

Best,

Bill Rouse

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 9:39 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Alan,


You should be able to find CruiseRO Water and Power on the internet.  Try this link.
He very effectively clears up the no-fresh-water myth and also gives the technical explanation of how fresh water at high pressure will destroy a membrane.

The Filmtec notes you quote are pretty clear that fresh (or brackish) water is no problem.

The Dessalator warning is clearly one of those cover-your-ass disclaimers to prevent customer complaints and claims like the one discussed here recently from Alden Barbour warning against using tank water to cool the refrigerant. That was because of the remote possibility the line might rupture in the tank and contaminate the drinking water and kill you when you drink it, or the user might let the tank water run low and have inadequate cooling and complain on some cruisers' forum and give Alden Barbour a bad name.

Sure, you can, indeed, blow out your RO membrane if you run it with fresh feed water at high pressure. 
Uh, don't do that.

Cheers,
Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

I'm now not so sure about this fresh water business.


In the Dessalator Duo 60 manual  it says:

Remember: The biggest enemy of the membranes is fresh water.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system
(pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no
pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making
freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise).
When running the watermaker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut it self
down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the watermaker is ready for use.


I have the Filmtec Membrane Technical Manual and I can find no discussion of this at all anywhere.

In fact a number of systems are illustrated that
1. Treat Brackish water
2. RO the RO water (double RO) to make ultrapure water.

So I don;t know where this freshwater enemy story comes from......nothing on a Google search.

If it really was a problem I would think Filmtec would warn about it.

Alan
Elyse SM437
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Kaplan,Andre
 

Alan,
Seat looks real nice and would fit perfectly on my Mango... where did you get it?

Andre Kaplan
“Renaissance 2000”
Mango “7188”
Westbrook, CT


On Aug 23, 2018, at 4:16 PM, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Greeting,

On my Santorin SN24 the pedestal seat is bolted in place and does not move. Even with cushions on the backrest and seat it is just hard enough to keep the crew from falling asleep on watch. Hence 90% of the time we just push the autopilot button and kickup our feet on the cockpit seats. Only had 1 crew who would ever sit there for hours pushing buttons to scroll thru the plotter, change light intensity, go to port 1 degree then strbd 3 degrees and try to calibrate the depth sounder in the gulf stream  

Ric Gottschalk

SN24 Bali Hai

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 

 

The Santorin has a pedestal seat. Ours sits on the pedestal post (not bolted) and therefore does 2 handy things.
1. It can be lifted off at anchor and gives more cockpit space
2. It swivels, so that when heeled you can turn the seat so your back is always dead downhill.
No problems with the fitting, but the moulded base support does give it the strength required.

Ian ‘Ocean Hobo’ SN96
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Micron 66 Caribbean experience

Nick Newington
 

I am using old micron 66 (3 years at least)but have touched up the very bow and a bit of the bottom of the keel and rudder. The original paint is still good after multiple haul outs.
I have not left the boat in a nutrient rich environment but have been on the go mostly and in clear water.

If I were you I would not repaint, only touch up as required.  Obviously at some point you will have to repaint. It depends on your agenda. If you were heading off with no plans on hauling for two years then paint two new good coats otherwise keep going until you need to. 

Nick (Amelia Amel 54)

Sent from myiPhone

On 24 Aug 2018, at 15:51, 'dancarlson367@...' dancarlson367@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Amel owners,  I know from discussions that many of you use Micron 66 bottom paint in the Caribbean. I'm looking for responses from those with specific experience.  I put 2 coats on the bottom of my boat in Nov of 2017 and sailed the eastern Caribbean for 7 months. We hauled in Curacao last June (the bottom was very clean). We go back in November to sail the western Caribbean for the next 7 months with plans to haul again in June of 2019.  Question for those who have done something similar. Do you just scuff the boat and relaunch and only paint every other year? Or do you put a fresh coat on each year while the boat is out and dry? Looking for boaters with actual experience with this scenario.  As an added note, when the water is clean I regularly go for a swim with a scrubber to keep the bottom clean.  I have the idea that we may be in more places in the western Caribben where I might not want to do that as often.  


Thanks, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM387, sv BeBe
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

CW Bill Rouse
 

Craig,

Here is another prospective...I am not sure which is right.

I was in manufacturing for many years. All manufactures have to be very careful that their products are not misused because the umbrella generation will sue when something goes wrong that they were "allowed" to do. 

The Dessalator system has a "green" zone for the high pressure setting, which makes it simple and easy to use for half of users that do not know what they do not know. Probably, what many of us would like to see is BAR at specific salinity and temperature...BUT, Dessalator knows that they have to design something for the simple-minded user. Therefore, since they are basically forced to make the watermaker "child proof" we have the green zone on the HP gauge. And, since we have the green zone, a non-expert could and probably would over-pressurize for fresh or brackish water, which will cause issues.

I used the term "child proof" with the product development folks that reported to me. I would always ask if the new product was child proof and for their explanation...they knew what I meant.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 9:39 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Alan,


You should be able to find CruiseRO Water and Power on the internet.  Try this link.
He very effectively clears up the no-fresh-water myth and also gives the technical explanation of how fresh water at high pressure will destroy a membrane.

The Filmtec notes you quote are pretty clear that fresh (or brackish) water is no problem.

The Dessalator warning is clearly one of those cover-your-ass disclaimers to prevent customer complaints and claims like the one discussed here recently from Alden Barbour warning against using tank water to cool the refrigerant. That was because of the remote possibility the line might rupture in the tank and contaminate the drinking water and kill you when you drink it, or the user might let the tank water run low and have inadequate cooling and complain on some cruisers' forum and give Alden Barbour a bad name.

Sure, you can, indeed, blow out your RO membrane if you run it with fresh feed water at high pressure. 
Uh, don't do that.

Cheers,
Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I'm now not so sure about this fresh water business.


In the Dessalator Duo 60 manual  it says:

Remember: The biggest enemy of the membranes is fresh water.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system
(pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no
pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making
freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise).
When running the watermaker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut it self
down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the watermaker is ready for use.


I have the Filmtec Membrane Technical Manual and I can find no discussion of this at all anywhere.

In fact a number of systems are illustrated that
1. Treat Brackish water
2. RO the RO water (double RO) to make ultrapure water.

So I don;t know where this freshwater enemy story comes from......nothing on a Google search.

If it really was a problem I would think Filmtec would warn about it.

Alan
Elyse SM437
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

Porter McRoberts
 

For how long John?  
I am thinking a double double racor would be the way to go. 
What’s the internal rail diameter on these engines? Should not the last filter be smaller that the rail?

New long block in as we speak. 

Thank you everyone for all the help. 





Porter 
Ibis A54-110 
Panama City


Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Aug 24, 2018, at 8:14 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi All,
   with our TAMD22 we ran a 2 micon Racor without issue.    

                  John
SV Annie SM #37
Le Marin  


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:42 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thomas and Bill 
Good points. I’m still learning to handle a modern Diesel Engine. 

Maybe it is better to go for 1-2 micron Racor filter instead of the recommended 10 micron in order to filter out as much as possible. Or does the Engine suffer from the reduced flow rate?

Cheers
Ruedi 
Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABI“, Amel 54. #55
Korfu

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 22. August 2018 um 21:24
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 


That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 
I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 


Best,


Thomas
soon back onboard 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curaçao



On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 



I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

Micron 66 Caribbean experience

Dan Carlson
 

Hello Amel owners,  I know from discussions that many of you use Micron 66 bottom paint in the Caribbean. I'm looking for responses from those with specific experience.  I put 2 coats on the bottom of my boat in Nov of 2017 and sailed the eastern Caribbean for 7 months. We hauled in Curacao last June (the bottom was very clean). We go back in November to sail the western Caribbean for the next 7 months with plans to haul again in June of 2019.  Question for those who have done something similar. Do you just scuff the boat and relaunch and only paint every other year? Or do you put a fresh coat on each year while the boat is out and dry? Looking for boaters with actual experience with this scenario.  As an added note, when the water is clean I regularly go for a swim with a scrubber to keep the bottom clean.  I have the idea that we may be in more places in the western Caribben where I might not want to do that as often.  

Thanks, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM387, sv BeBe
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Craig Briggs
 

Alan,

You should be able to find CruiseRO Water and Power on the internet.  Try this link.
He very effectively clears up the no-fresh-water myth and also gives the technical explanation of how fresh water at high pressure will destroy a membrane.

The Filmtec notes you quote are pretty clear that fresh (or brackish) water is no problem.

The Dessalator warning is clearly one of those cover-your-ass disclaimers to prevent customer complaints and claims like the one discussed here recently from Alden Barbour warning against using tank water to cool the refrigerant. That was because of the remote possibility the line might rupture in the tank and contaminate the drinking water and kill you when you drink it, or the user might let the tank water run low and have inadequate cooling and complain on some cruisers' forum and give Alden Barbour a bad name.

Sure, you can, indeed, blow out your RO membrane if you run it with fresh feed water at high pressure. 
Uh, don't do that.

Cheers,
Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

I'm now not so sure about this fresh water business.


In the Dessalator Duo 60 manual  it says:

Remember: The biggest enemy of the membranes is fresh water.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system
(pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no
pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making
freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise).
When running the watermaker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut it self
down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the watermaker is ready for use.


I have the Filmtec Membrane Technical Manual and I can find no discussion of this at all anywhere.

In fact a number of systems are illustrated that
1. Treat Brackish water
2. RO the RO water (double RO) to make ultrapure water.

So I don;t know where this freshwater enemy story comes from......nothing on a Google search.

If it really was a problem I would think Filmtec would warn about it.

Alan
Elyse SM437
Re: ONAN Documentation for old Generator MDKD

philipp.sollberger@...
 

Hi Alan,

Great! Thank's very much for this good link.

I will order there.

Fair winds.

Philipp
#124 SM/ Félicie
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Craig Briggs
 

Yes, Kent, that's what was pointed out - OK in fresh water if you don't exceed rated fresh water flow, not that you need to watch the high pressure.  Just that it will be much lower than with salt water.

That being said, as Bill pointed out, there may still be an issue with bacteria from depleted pickling chems.
Cheers


---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

I don’t think it’s the pressure you need to watch, Pat.  It’s the RO water flow.  Does yours have the glass tube with float that indicates how much water you are making?  Keep that below the rated volume your unit produces.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243

On Aug 23, 2018, at 8:07 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Craig , I will watch the video, I would really like to run it now before I leave, so that I can replace/repair here before departure. The membranes have only been used for six months , then pickled for 31/2 years . I don't know what that does to them , it seems if you ran them for awhile they would clean themselves ,who knows ,I don't. So you are saying as long as I don't turn the pressure up beyond the green zone , it would be OK .See ya in ST. Michaels.

Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Aug 23, 2018 7:52 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 

Hi Pat,

You definitely can run your watermaker in fresh water without ruining the membrane(s). The only caveat is that you must not exceed your fresh water output rating.  

Start your unit up with, as Alan says, the pressure knob fully closed (which you normally do). Then bring the pressure up slowly and monitor the fresh water output flow. In sea water, where you might need 800 psi to get your rated output (mine is 20 gph), in brackish it's maybe 400 or so and only 200ish in fresh water.

For a good video on this by Rich Boren, who owns the CruiseRO company, check out http://blog.cruiserowaterandpower.com/can-i-run-a-marine-water-maker-in-fresh-or-brackish-water/
If the link on the last line gets garbled by yahoo, it is http colon slash slash blog dot cruiserowaterandpower dot com slash can-i-run-a-marine-water-maker-in-fresh-or-brackish-water slash

I used to do this all the time on Sangaris, so I know it works.

Cheers, Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

Alan, I am concerned about that , leaving them pickled so long and they were new four years ago. So it sounds like there is no way to fully test the system until I get to salt water. If I could find a way to make up some salt water and recirculate it ,that would work. I would like to put it through a stress test prior to heading for the Caribbean.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Wed, Aug 22, 2018 4:33 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 
Hi Pat,

ATF 90 - Automatic Transmission Fluid SAE 90

You can rinse the membranes with fresh water with the pressure knob fully anti clockwise i.e. no pressure.
If you pressurise the membranes with fresh water you will ruin them - if they are not already ruined from sitting pickled for that length of time.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Craig Briggs
 

Same problem in the head. 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

I got a strap with hooks on either end from George and Kim on Indecent several years ago.  They got it fromWest Marine.
I put two eye bolts in the face of the nav station one fore and one aft of the drawer.  The strap hooks to them and makes a great back rest when working at the nav station.
But my butt still gets tired and my feet fall asleep if I sit on that stool too long.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

John Clark
 

Hi All,
   with our TAMD22 we ran a 2 micon Racor without issue.    

                  John
SV Annie SM #37
Le Marin  


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:42 AM Rudolf Waldispuehl Rudolf@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thomas and Bill 
Good points. I’m still learning to handle a modern Diesel Engine. 

Maybe it is better to go for 1-2 micron Racor filter instead of the recommended 10 micron in order to filter out as much as possible. Or does the Engine suffer from the reduced flow rate?

Cheers
Ruedi 
Ruedi & Sabina Waldispuehl
"SY WASABI“, Amel 54. #55
Korfu

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Mittwoch, 22. August 2018 um 21:24
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Long block failure on a Volvo D3-110 Amel 54-152

 


That’s a great article, Bill, thanks for sharing. 

It’s good to see Nigel opening the debate about what needs to happen to adress the issues of modern engines in marine environments. It seems to point towards fuel quality. The corollary being inadaquate onboard filtering. 
I wonder what it means for fuel additives and their adequacy for our problems. Naively I would think that any product that dissolves contaminants simply makes them smaller so potentially riskier for high pressure common rail injectors (ie pass through filters but still too big for injectors)? 

Another topic is the established advice that a diesel engine enjoys being run at 80%, and failing that, at least push it hard from time to time. How much of this is still relevant to modern engines with better fuel efficiency (so less residue at low regime I presume) and variable geometry turbos?

I don’t have the first clue about those questions but i would like to understand what bits of the marine diesel knowledge base apply to our modern engines. 


Best,


Thomas
soon back onboard 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curaçao



On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 at 04:07, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

There was a good article on the worrisome trend in the design of small marine diesels in Yachting Monthly last year. 



I am beginning to wonder if we have almost seen the end of diesels that reliably run for more than 10,000 hours.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Paul Osterberg
 

Per-Erik
Thanks Visit Sweden soon for a short while, it is rather big for my hand luggage :)
But at least I can have a look at it and try it.
Paul
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

WASABI - Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hi Alan

I know from my former Boat's Watermaker. After using a while it helped the performance a lot by cleaning from time to time with extra cleaning cartridges. 

What I know; Freshwater under pressure destroys the membranes as well as fresh water with chlorine inside. In some marinas you only get this. Thats why I always use carbon filter to fill up tank with drinking water. I'm not filling non drinking-water or somehow contaminated I'm not knowing.

You need freshwater after using to rinse/flush the salt-water out. Reason is that sea water is fouling much faster than fresh water because there is much more organic stuff in it. When you use the Membranes daily there would be no real need for flushing all time, because time until re-use will not allow for much growth inside. 

Btw: You can manually flush the system as long as you like by turning the 3way valve in the engine room to fresh water supply.

Cheers
Ruedi 
WASABI
A-54, #55


On 24 Aug 2018, at 02:59, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I'm now not so sure about this fresh water business.


In the Dessalator Duo 60 manual  it says:

Remember: The biggest enemy of the membranes is fresh water.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system
(pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no
pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making
freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise).
When running the watermaker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut it self
down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the watermaker is ready for use.


I have the Filmtec Membrane Technical Manual and I can find no discussion of this at all anywhere.

In fact a number of systems are illustrated that
1. Treat Brackish water
2. RO the RO water (double RO) to make ultrapure water.

So I don;t know where this freshwater enemy story comes from......nothing on a Google search.

If it really was a problem I would think Filmtec would warn about it.

Alan
Elyse SM437
Re: ONAN Documentation for old Generator MDKD

Alan Leslie
 

Hello Philipp

Go here 


Cheers

alan
elyse sm437




---In amelyachtowners@..., <philipp.sollberger@...> wrote :

Dear Amelowners and Experts from old Super Maramus,


I have an ONAN MDKD-P (6.5 KW) and I'm looking for a documentation concerning the service operations and the order numbers for spare parts for this generator.


I have already looked in the web but unfortunately I was not very successful. Maybe someone of you has such a service manual in pdf format and could put it on the files of the amelowner Site.

Maybe someone has also an idea where you can buy impellers or kits which are on a price that is payable. I have an offer for 70 € or 100 $, which are out of acceptable range for one impeller!.


Many thanks to all your answers in advance.


Fair winds and always one finger under the keel.


Philipp
Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Alan Leslie
 

When I look in my manual (thanks to others!) there is a whole page of approved fluids, and the only common theme is ATF
So my guess is that any ATF will do, after all we don't subject our transmissions to anything like the stresses that the automotive guys do, mostly we're puddling along at 2000 rpm, no rapid accelerations or decelerations ...?
Alan
Elyse SM437
Port Sandwich, waiting for the wind to die down 
25441 - 25460 of 67101