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Re: tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Nick Newington
Thanks Teun,
I am with you when it comes to the prices charged for these furlers. It is outrageous, you have every reason to be angry.
I am happy that I have the MEJ’s rather than the EJF’s. At least I can pull them apart…but am fully aware of their vulnerability. The belt drive is okay but……as you say it is a rubber band.
I have found that the staysail offers no extra speed on any point of sail when flown with the genoa. It is a great storm jib, but I think that I would prefer to have it hanked on sitting in a bag, ready to go. No windage at anchor or sailing and no problem with the lazy genoa sheet chaffing it when running downwind... I have not done the change as I fear it would de-value the boat. Having a really reliable genoa furler is so far and away more important it does make one wonder if going with a regular roller furler with a furling line brought back to the cockpit…is the way to go…again I have not made this change and probably won’t but it does make one wonder. If one could make the small cockpit winch electric and use it to run the furling line say on the port side. run the line along the stanchions all the way forward, then one would have a completely reliable system….the trouble is that deviates from the Amel philosophy...
Nick
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28 Jul 2022, at 11:50, Teun BAAS < teun@...> wrote:
Hi Nick, Below in blue Best Regards Teun July 28, 2022 20:32:00 Hi Teun, Understood. Sorry you must be bored with the usage question. [TDB] Not bored but I am frustrated not being able to explain/make clear the failure of these 2 furlers has nothing to do with usage but everything to do with poor design and poor workmanship while charging an arm & a leg. I didn’t replace the MEJ version because they didn’t work – they did work but I had read & heard enough about failures at (of course) the most inopportune times (during heavy duty weather) and also understood clearly the cause of this failure: a rubber band is really not the most optimal way to handle sails compared to a gear system. So I understood the underlaying concept and that’s why I ordered the EFJs. Ironically the rubber band in my head MEJ failed 5 BM from NOUMEA on the way home from a weekend sailing while the new EFJ’s were laying in the warehouse waiting to be installed. I want mine to keep dry.[TDB] When I put AMELIT on the hard 1st week December 2019 she was completely washed down with fresh water. Usually QUEENSLAND is one of the hottest places; is called the skin cancer capital of the world. Where do you think the water is getting in? The cable entry? The winch handle entry? The connection to the foil? Any ideas? [TDB] All of the above I guess; I really think that a company claiming to supply/manufacture professional marine gear AND they charge meaningful money then they should live up to their hype. Also – just look at the instructions how to route the cable; completely illogical and they explicitly make clear not to have the cable in a loop while, imo, the loop will prevent water from entering. In this case that water will NOT enter the furler but will enter the sail locker and likely drip via the cables in the BOTRON box. When I have had the covers off, both to the belt cover and the motor cover, I have replaced them with silicon between the faces. Have had no ingress. However I may just open them up and have a look. It is difficult to open them up with the silicon so I resort to using a rubber mallet. [TDB] From what you explain you are talking about the MEJ version as it is very difficult to open the EFJ and once open you can not get the motor out and w/o have taken the motor out you can not get to the gear system. It is so specialized that BAMAR sent a video for my tech how to handle with the explicit instruction/request to keep it confidential which I will honor. AML 54-019
On 28 Jul 2022, at 09:39, Teun BAAS < teun@...> wrote: The issue with my furlers has nothing to do with the usage; it is in fact more an issue of NON usage and that moisture can get inside the housing. See Bill ROUSE’s comments at the bottom of the link he sent yday. Below in blue in your original Email. HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA You are really having a lousy time with the electric furlers. I have a couple of questions; When you reef the sails do you completely de-power the genoa? [TDB] Yes I (in RANDOM order) fall off somewhat or wait for a lull in the wind if possible or ease the sheet That is ease the sheet until the sail flogs before furling in and then once you have the correct amount of sail and ONLY then do you sheet in? Clearly the exception being when running downwind and poled out. Are you having the same problem with the staysail furler as the genoa furler?[TDB] Yes I ask this because I do not think that any electric furler will be able to reef the genoa under load without damaging the motor. If you want that level of performance then you need a hydraulic system. Hydraulic furlers are much much more powerful, and are really bullet proof but on the other hand you can do real damage to the sails and possibly the rig. Halberg Rassy for example has hydraulic mainsai and genoal furling as standard. Once installed that is it bullet proof.[TDB] Nick, none of these are/were the issue. The problem is NOT damage to the motor due to usage or operator error. On my 54 I would love to go hydraulic for the genoa but they are extremely expensive, especially to retrofit. I manage with what I have, or at least have done to date…. On 28 Jul 2022, at 02:08, Teun BAAS < teun@...> wrote: Thanks for your reply. It seems you went thru similar expensive frustrating furler experience 😊 I also am/was under the impression that RECKMANN was absolutely the ultimate on furlers – “typisch Deutsche Gruendlichkeit 😊”. However, talking to several marine professionals & riggers it seems that RECKMANN is also are starting to slack. Hard to separate the typical trash talk and facts. I have RECKMANN on the short list (RECKMANN; PROFURL/FACNOR (the same)) for consideration besides replacing the motors (either with the original Italian or local OZ motors) in the current units. Although less expensive it doesn’t solve the design issues which caused my current problems; so only kicking the can down the road as the failures have nothing to do with wrong handling; wrong or poor maintenance etc. Besides price another important consideration is lead time as I have to leave AUSTRALIA under the current ABF Control Permit. Since changing the furlers will also mean changing the foils etc. etc. I am also discussing having the standing rigging replaced at the same time – although originally I had that planned for next year or 2024. Never a dull moment sailing a boat ☹. HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
I cannot give information about Harken. We replaced the Bamar furlers with Reckmann. Absolute simple technical design, no electronics. Both furlers are working without any problems since 2018.
The story before: When we got our 54 in 2016 the jib furler motor was dead due to water ingress into the housing and the genoa furler motor was working extremely noisy because of corrosion. The death of this motor could be foreseen. Both electronic boxes where dead too. After replacing the electronic boxes and the jib furler motor we had a break down of the wheel which controls the belt tension at this unit. One of the new electronic boxes never worked properly. It always caused a switch off of the motor due to over voltage though there was no over voltage. We decided to change both ...
Fair winds
Martin Bikhoff
currently Beaulieu sur Mer, France
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Re: Brush set (4) for jib furler motor Supermaramu
Marian Toncic-Sorinj
Am 2022-07-27 02:47, schrieb ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON:
Hello Group: Eric and Robyn here on LIBBY, SM#196, 1997 build, sailing out of Los Angeles
Jib furler motor stopped working. Removed cover and found a handful of salt residue up to and in the brush sets. Confirmed power to motor and foil turning easily. Cleaned/vaccumed salt deposits then electrical cleaner and corrosionx.
Motor runs quiet and strong, back in business. Now looking for source for brush set (4) for the 24v motor. Any spec. plate is long gone and inquiries to SAV@Amel indicate the motor and parts are no longer supported. Does anyone happen to have a source for those brushes or anyone with extra spares willing to sell four? Regards and good sailing, Eric
--
Eric C. Lichty
ECLMARINE, LLC.
cell: 425 354-7720
Hello Eric,
i had similar Problems. These are old Bosch-Motors that are not supported any more. But Lofrans produces these motors now. for example "Lofrans-Tigres Anchorwinslet" is driven by exact this Motor. Best regards Marian
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Re: tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Teun BAAS
Hi Nick,
Below in blue
Best Regards Teun
July 28, 2022
20:32:00
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Nick Newington via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 19:58
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Hi Teun,
Understood. Sorry you must be bored with the usage question.
[TDB]
Not bored but I am frustrated not being able to explain/make clear the failure of these 2 furlers has nothing to do with usage but everything to do with poor design
and poor workmanship while charging an arm & a leg. I didn’t replace the MEJ version because they didn’t work – they did work but I had read & heard enough about failures at (of course) the most inopportune times (during heavy duty weather) and also understood
clearly the cause of this failure: a rubber band is really not the most optimal way to handle sails compared to a gear system. So I understood the underlaying concept and that’s why I ordered the EFJs. Ironically the rubber band in my head MEJ failed 5 BM
from NOUMEA on the way home from a weekend sailing while the new EFJ’s were laying in the warehouse waiting to be installed.
I want mine to keep dry.[TDB]
When I put AMELIT on the hard 1st week December 2019 she was completely washed down with fresh water. Usually QUEENSLAND is one of the hottest places; is
called the skin cancer capital of the world.
Where do you think the water is getting in? The cable entry? The winch handle entry? The connection to the foil? Any ideas?
[TDB]
All of the above I guess; I really think that a company claiming to supply/manufacture professional marine gear AND they charge meaningful money then they should live
up to their hype. Also – just look at the instructions how to route the cable; completely illogical and they explicitly make clear not to have the cable in a loop while, imo, the loop will prevent water from entering. In this case that water will NOT enter
the furler but will enter the sail locker and likely drip via the cables in the BOTRON box.
When I have had the covers off, both to the belt cover and the motor cover, I have replaced them with silicon between the faces. Have had no ingress. However I may just open them up and have a look. It is
difficult to open them up with the silicon so I resort to using a rubber mallet. [TDB]
From what you explain you are talking about the MEJ version as it is very difficult to open the EFJ and once open you can not get the motor out and w/o have taken the
motor out you can not get to the gear system. It is so specialized that BAMAR sent
a video for my tech how to handle with the explicit instruction/request to keep it confidential
which I will honor.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28 Jul 2022, at 09:39, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:
The issue with my furlers has nothing to do with the usage; it is in fact more an issue of NON usage and that moisture can get inside the housing.
See Bill ROUSE’s comments at the bottom of the link he sent yday.
Below in blue in your original Email.
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
You are really having a lousy time with the electric furlers.
I have a couple of questions;
When you reef the sails do you completely de-power the genoa? [TDB] Yes
I (in RANDOM order) fall off somewhat or wait for a lull in the wind if possible or ease the sheet
That is ease the sheet until the sail flogs before furling in and then once you have the correct amount of sail and ONLY then do you sheet in? Clearly the exception being when running downwind and poled out.
Are you having the same problem with the staysail furler as the genoa furler?[TDB] Yes
I ask this because I do not think that any electric furler will be able to reef the genoa under load without damaging the motor. If you want that level of performance then you need a hydraulic system. Hydraulic
furlers are much much more powerful, and are really bullet proof but on the other hand you can do real damage to the sails and possibly the rig. Halberg Rassy for example has hydraulic mainsai and genoal furling as standard. Once installed that is it bullet
proof.[TDB] Nick, none of these are/were the
issue. The problem is NOT damage to the motor due to usage or operator error.
On my 54 I would love to go hydraulic for the genoa but they are extremely expensive, especially to retrofit. I manage with what I have, or at least have done to date….
On 28 Jul 2022, at 02:08, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:
Thanks for your reply. It seems you went thru similar expensive frustrating furler experience 😊
I also am/was under the impression that RECKMANN was absolutely the ultimate on furlers – “typisch Deutsche Gruendlichkeit 😊”.
However, talking to several marine professionals & riggers it seems that RECKMANN is also are starting to slack. Hard to separate the typical trash talk and facts.
I have RECKMANN on the short list (RECKMANN; PROFURL/FACNOR (the same)) for consideration besides replacing the motors (either with the original Italian or local
OZ motors) in the current units. Although less expensive it doesn’t solve the design issues which caused my current problems; so only kicking the can down the road as the failures have
nothing to do with wrong handling; wrong or poor maintenance etc.
Besides price another important consideration is lead time as I have to leave AUSTRALIA under the current ABF Control Permit.
Since changing the furlers will also mean changing the foils etc. etc. I am also discussing having the standing rigging replaced at the same time – although originally
I had that planned for next year or 2024.
Never a dull moment sailing a boat ☹.
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
I cannot give information about Harken. We replaced the Bamar furlers with Reckmann. Absolute simple technical design, no electronics. Both furlers are working without any problems since 2018.
The story before: When we got our 54 in 2016 the jib furler motor was dead due to water ingress into the housing and the genoa furler motor was working extremely noisy because of corrosion. The death of this motor could be foreseen. Both electronic boxes where
dead too. After replacing the electronic boxes and the jib furler motor we had a break down of the wheel which controls the belt tension at this unit. One of the new electronic boxes never worked properly. It always caused a switch off of the motor due to
over voltage though there was no over voltage. We decided to change both ...
Fair winds
Martin Bikhoff
currently Beaulieu sur Mer, France
|
|
|
Re: tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Nick Newington
Hi Teun,
Understood. Sorry you must be bored with the usage question.
I want mine to keep dry.
Where do you think the water is getting in? The cable entry? The winch handle entry? The connection to the foil? Any ideas?
When I have had the covers off, both to the belt cover and the motor cover, I have replaced them with silicon between the faces. Have had no ingress. However I may just open them up and have a look. It is difficult to open them up with the silicon so I resort to using a rubber mallet.
Nick
Amelia
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28 Jul 2022, at 09:39, Teun BAAS < teun@...> wrote:
Nick, The issue with my furlers has nothing to do with the usage; it is in fact more an issue of NON usage and that moisture can get inside the housing. See Bill ROUSE’s comments at the bottom of the link he sent yday. Below in blue in your original Email. Best Regards Teun SV AMELIT A54 #128 HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA July 28, 2022 18:35:11 Hi Teun, You are really having a lousy time with the electric furlers. I have a couple of questions; When you reef the sails do you completely de-power the genoa? [TDB] Yes I (in RANDOM order) fall off somewhat or wait for a lull in the wind if possible or ease the sheet That is ease the sheet until the sail flogs before furling in and then once you have the correct amount of sail and ONLY then do you sheet in? Clearly the exception being when running downwind and poled out. Are you having the same problem with the staysail furler as the genoa furler?[TDB] Yes I ask this because I do not think that any electric furler will be able to reef the genoa under load without damaging the motor. If you want that level of performance then you need a hydraulic system. Hydraulic furlers are much much more powerful, and are really bullet proof but on the other hand you can do real damage to the sails and possibly the rig. Halberg Rassy for example has hydraulic mainsai and genoal furling as standard. Once installed that is it bullet proof.[TDB] Nick, none of these are/were the issue. The problem is NOT damage to the motor due to usage or operator error. On my 54 I would love to go hydraulic for the genoa but they are extremely expensive, especially to retrofit. I manage with what I have, or at least have done to date…. AML 54-019 Leros
On 28 Jul 2022, at 02:08, Teun BAAS < teun@...> wrote: Thanks for your reply. It seems you went thru similar expensive frustrating furler experience 😊 I also am/was under the impression that RECKMANN was absolutely the ultimate on furlers – “typisch Deutsche Gruendlichkeit 😊”. However, talking to several marine professionals & riggers it seems that RECKMANN is also are starting to slack. Hard to separate the typical trash talk and facts. I have RECKMANN on the short list (RECKMANN; PROFURL/FACNOR (the same)) for consideration besides replacing the motors (either with the original Italian or local OZ motors) in the current units. Although less expensive it doesn’t solve the design issues which caused my current problems; so only kicking the can down the road as the failures have nothing to do with wrong handling; wrong or poor maintenance etc. Besides price another important consideration is lead time as I have to leave AUSTRALIA under the current ABF Control Permit. Since changing the furlers will also mean changing the foils etc. etc. I am also discussing having the standing rigging replaced at the same time – although originally I had that planned for next year or 2024. Never a dull moment sailing a boat ☹. HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
I cannot give information about Harken. We replaced the Bamar furlers with Reckmann. Absolute simple technical design, no electronics. Both furlers are working without any problems since 2018.
The story before: When we got our 54 in 2016 the jib furler motor was dead due to water ingress into the housing and the genoa furler motor was working extremely noisy because of corrosion. The death of this motor could be foreseen. Both electronic boxes where dead too. After replacing the electronic boxes and the jib furler motor we had a break down of the wheel which controls the belt tension at this unit. One of the new electronic boxes never worked properly. It always caused a switch off of the motor due to over voltage though there was no over voltage. We decided to change both ...
Fair winds
Martin Bikhoff
currently Beaulieu sur Mer, France
|
|
|
Re: tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Teun BAAS
Nick,
The issue with my furlers has nothing to do with the usage; it is in fact more an issue of NON usage and that moisture can get inside the housing.
See Bill ROUSE’s comments at the bottom of the link he sent yday.
Below in blue in your original Email.
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT A54 #128
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
July 28, 2022
18:35:11
You can follow AMELIT via this link:
https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Nick Newington via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 17:53
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Hi Teun,
You are really having a lousy time with the electric furlers.
I have a couple of questions;
When you reef the sails do you completely de-power the genoa?
[TDB]
Yes I (in RANDOM order) fall off somewhat or wait for a lull in the wind if possible or ease the sheet
That is ease the sheet until the sail flogs before furling in and then once you have the correct amount of sail and ONLY then do you sheet in? Clearly the exception being when running downwind and poled out.
Are you having the same problem with the staysail furler as the genoa furler?[TDB]
Yes
I ask this because I do not think that any electric furler will be able to reef the genoa under load without damaging the motor. If you want that level of performance then you need a hydraulic system. Hydraulic
furlers are much much more powerful, and are really bullet proof but on the other hand you can do real damage to the sails and possibly the rig. Halberg Rassy for example has hydraulic mainsai and genoal furling as standard. Once installed that is it bullet
proof.[TDB]
Nick, none of these are/were the issue. The problem is NOT damage to the motor due to usage or operator error.
On my 54 I would love to go hydraulic for the genoa but they are extremely expensive, especially to retrofit. I manage with what I have, or at least have done to date….
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28 Jul 2022, at 02:08, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:
Thanks for your reply. It seems you went thru similar expensive frustrating furler experience 😊
I also am/was under the impression that RECKMANN was absolutely the ultimate on furlers – “typisch Deutsche Gruendlichkeit 😊”.
However, talking to several marine professionals & riggers it seems that RECKMANN is also are starting to slack. Hard to separate the typical trash talk and facts.
I have RECKMANN on the short list (RECKMANN; PROFURL/FACNOR (the same)) for consideration besides replacing the motors (either with the original Italian or local
OZ motors) in the current units. Although less expensive it doesn’t solve the design issues which caused my current problems; so only kicking the can down the road as the failures have
nothing to do with wrong handling; wrong or poor maintenance etc.
Besides price another important consideration is lead time as I have to leave AUSTRALIA under the current ABF Control Permit.
Since changing the furlers will also mean changing the foils etc. etc. I am also discussing having the standing rigging replaced at the same time – although originally
I had that planned for next year or 2024.
Never a dull moment sailing a boat ☹.
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
I cannot give information about Harken. We replaced the Bamar furlers with Reckmann. Absolute simple technical design, no electronics. Both furlers are working without any problems since 2018.
The story before: When we got our 54 in 2016 the jib furler motor was dead due to water ingress into the housing and the genoa furler motor was working extremely noisy because of corrosion. The death of this motor could be foreseen. Both electronic boxes where
dead too. After replacing the electronic boxes and the jib furler motor we had a break down of the wheel which controls the belt tension at this unit. One of the new electronic boxes never worked properly. It always caused a switch off of the motor due to
over voltage though there was no over voltage. We decided to change both ...
Fair winds
Martin Bikhoff
currently Beaulieu sur Mer, France
|
|
|
Re: tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Nick Newington
Hi Teun,
You are really having a lousy time with the electric furlers.
I have a couple of questions;
When you reef the sails do you completely de-power the genoa? That is ease the sheet until the sail flogs before furling in and then once you have the correct amount of sail and ONLY then do you sheet in? Clearly the exception being when running downwind and poled out.
Are you having the same problem with the staysail furler as the genoa furler?
I ask this because I do not think that any electric furler will be able to reef the genoa under load without damaging the motor. If you want that level of performance then you need a hydraulic system. Hydraulic furlers are much much more powerful, and are really bullet proof but on the other hand you can do real damage to the sails and possibly the rig. Halberg Rassy for example has hydraulic mainsai and genoal furling as standard. Once installed that is it bullet proof.
On my 54 I would love to go hydraulic for the genoa but they are extremely expensive, especially to retrofit. I manage with what I have, or at least have done to date….
Kind regards
Nick S/Y Amelia
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28 Jul 2022, at 02:08, Teun BAAS < teun@...> wrote:
Morning Martin, Thanks for your reply. It seems you went thru similar expensive frustrating furler experience 😊 I also am/was under the impression that RECKMANN was absolutely the ultimate on furlers – “typisch Deutsche Gruendlichkeit 😊”. However, talking to several marine professionals & riggers it seems that RECKMANN is also are starting to slack. Hard to separate the typical trash talk and facts. I have RECKMANN on the short list (RECKMANN; PROFURL/FACNOR (the same)) for consideration besides replacing the motors (either with the original Italian or local OZ motors) in the current units. Although less expensive it doesn’t solve the design issues which caused my current problems; so only kicking the can down the road as the failures have nothing to do with wrong handling; wrong or poor maintenance etc. Besides price another important consideration is lead time as I have to leave AUSTRALIA under the current ABF Control Permit. Since changing the furlers will also mean changing the foils etc. etc. I am also discussing having the standing rigging replaced at the same time – although originally I had that planned for next year or 2024. Never a dull moment sailing a boat ☹. Best Regards Teun SV AMELIT A54 #128 HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA July 28, 2022 11:08:34 Good morning Teun,
I cannot give information about Harken. We replaced the Bamar furlers with Reckmann. Absolute simple technical design, no electronics. Both furlers are working without any problems since 2018.
The story before: When we got our 54 in 2016 the jib furler motor was dead due to water ingress into the housing and the genoa furler motor was working extremely noisy because of corrosion. The death of this motor could be foreseen. Both electronic boxes where dead too. After replacing the electronic boxes and the jib furler motor we had a break down of the wheel which controls the belt tension at this unit. One of the new electronic boxes never worked properly. It always caused a switch off of the motor due to over voltage though there was no over voltage. We decided to change both ...
Fair winds
Martin Bikhoff
SY Mago del Sur - 54#40 currently Beaulieu sur Mer, France
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|
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Re: tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Teun BAAS
Morning Martin,
Thanks for your reply. It seems you went thru similar expensive frustrating furler experience
😊
I also am/was under the impression that RECKMANN was absolutely the ultimate on furlers – “typisch Deutsche Gruendlichkeit
😊”. However, talking to several marine professionals & riggers it seems that RECKMANN
is also are starting to slack. Hard to separate the typical trash talk and facts.
I have RECKMANN on the short list (RECKMANN; PROFURL/FACNOR (the same)) for consideration besides replacing the motors (either with the original Italian or local
OZ motors) in the current units. Although less expensive it doesn’t solve the design issues which caused my current problems; so only kicking the can down the road as
the failures have nothing to do with wrong handling; wrong or poor maintenance etc.
Besides price another important consideration is lead time as I have to leave AUSTRALIA under the current ABF Control Permit.
Since changing the furlers will also mean changing the foils etc. etc. I am also discussing having the standing rigging replaced at the same time – although originally
I had that planned for next year or 2024.
Never a dull moment sailing a boat
☹.
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT A54 #128
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
July 28, 2022
11:08:34
You can follow AMELIT via this link:
https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Martin Birkhoff via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2022 20:06
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Good morning Teun,
I cannot give information about Harken. We replaced the Bamar furlers with Reckmann. Absolute simple technical design, no electronics. Both furlers are working without any problems since 2018.
The story before: When we got our 54 in 2016 the jib furler motor was dead due to water ingress into the housing and the genoa furler motor was working extremely noisy because of corrosion. The death of this motor could be foreseen. Both electronic boxes where
dead too. After replacing the electronic boxes and the jib furler motor we had a break down of the wheel which controls the belt tension at this unit. One of the new electronic boxes never worked properly. It always caused a switch off of the motor due to
over voltage though there was no over voltage. We decided to change both ...
Fair winds
Martin Bikhoff
SY Mago del Sur - 54#40
currently Beaulieu sur Mer, France
|
|
|
Re: tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Teun BAAS
Good Morning Aty & Mohammad,
Great hearing from you again – hope all is well.
I know for sure there have been 2 sets (4 units) of BAMAR furlers on AMELIT; in 2017 the MEJ version were on board and I ordered in 2018 the EJF and had them
installed late October 2018.
I ordered the EJF’s as extra compensation for my inept sailing abilities in an area with NO good marine services (South Pacific Islands; VANUATU, SOLOMONS etc.).
However, going through all the items on the boat when I got her in 2017, I noticed several furler parts which gave me the impression that the BAMARS had been
replaced; like (at least – maybe more) 2 extra BOTRON boxes. When my new BAMARS arrived I had the discussion with my rigger to replace the existing BOTRON or just keep the new boxes as spare while I already had at least 2 spare BOTRONs in the bilge.
So – for sure since 2018 there have been 4 BAMAR furlers
under my
“stewardship” on AMELIT and now (almost 100% sure
EXCEPT if I really hear something exceptional from the manufacturer in ITALY and/or their USA rep) will get 2 complete new
different brand units making it 6 electric furlers in total.
I adhere to the rules of this forum and will not express my feelings/opinion but I expect current A 54 owners to be intelligent enough to realize that: A) I don’t
collect furlers like I do watches, sunglasses, cars or motorcycles hahahahahaha and, in spite of my age, am not (yet) that senile to waste money on buying furlers after only 9 months actual use. Even for a BAMAR I think 9 months of actual usage is kind of
short (sarcastic).
I am happy to discuss with you further (and give you my unfiltered experience/opinion hahahaha) via private Email (teun@...
or teunbaasQ@...)
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT A54 #128
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
July 28, 2022
09:04:06
You can follow AMELIT via this link:
https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Mohammad Shirloo via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 04:09
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Hi Teun,
Can you please clarify, have you replaced 3 or 4 sets ( 6 or 8) of the new Bamar furlers with the worm gear drives or the original belt driven ones or a combination?
We replaced the original belt driven furlers 4 years ago with the new gear driven EJF series and have not had any issues yet.
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
Good Morning,
I just received news that the motor in
both my barely used BAMAR EFJ furlers are shot (=dead)
☹
Since I am now looking for at least the 3rd (that I know off) but possibly 4th set of electric furlers on AMELIT in 13 years can anybody give me feedback
on the HARKEN electric furlers on an AMEL 54.
Looking forward to hearing from you
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT A54 #128
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
July 27, 2022 16:52:50
You can follow AMELIT via this link:
https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
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Re: FIRE EXTINGUISHER USCG CERTIFIDE SM2K #430
I was just looking into those, prob tough to source in Hawaii. Do you recall the model number or any specifics on the installation. I like the fact it will not destroy the engine room even if the fire does not. Thanks for your reply
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From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Winand Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2022 3:35 PM To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] FIRE EXTINGUISHER USCG CERTIFIDE SM2K #430 We installed the fireboy system on Nebo sm251. Did it when we redid the engine room. It shuts down the fans and engine when activated. Amelians,
I have been reading through all the posts trying to sort out the engine room fire extinguishers. The long skinny one on the stb side of the companion way that is manually actuated appears to be un- serviceable as the company trying to re cert it is unable to take the valve off to do hydro and refill. I am not sure if they will be able to service the automatic one located in the port laz. Has anyone been able to come up with a solution in the U.S. short of replacing the entire set up? and if you did have to replace the set up, what did you come up with?
Appreciate any helpful advice,
CB
SM2K #430
Hawaii
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Re: FIRE EXTINGUISHER USCG CERTIFIDE SM2K #430
We installed the fireboy system on Nebo sm251. Did it when we redid the engine room. It shuts down the fans and engine when activated.
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Amelians,
I have been reading through all the posts trying to sort out the engine room fire extinguishers. The long skinny one on the stb side of the companion way that is manually actuated appears to be un- serviceable as the company trying to re cert it is unable to take the valve off to do hydro and refill. I am not sure if they will be able to service the automatic one located in the port laz. Has anyone been able to come up with a solution in the U.S. short of replacing the entire set up? and if you did have to replace the set up, what did you come up with?
Appreciate any helpful advice,
CB
SM2K #430
Hawaii
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FIRE EXTINGUISHER USCG CERTIFIDE SM2K #430
Amelians,
I have been reading through all the posts trying to sort out the engine room fire extinguishers. The long skinny one on the stb side of the companion way that is manually actuated appears to be un- serviceable as the company trying to re cert it is unable to take the valve off to do hydro and refill. I am not sure if they will be able to service the automatic one located in the port laz. Has anyone been able to come up with a solution in the U.S. short of replacing the entire set up? and if you did have to replace the set up, what did you come up with?
Appreciate any helpful advice,
CB
SM2K #430
Hawaii
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To add a datapoint:
When we bought our then 7y old A54, the desalator duo100 had ~500hr on it. It had been used only a few weeks a year and we don’t know if/how it was winterised in-between.
We quickly opted to change the membranes, after realising it produced tds 500+ ppm water.
That’s when we realised the (black) end caps were badly chipped at the interconnections and the membranes replacement process couldn’t be completed without leaks. The interconnect (aka bobbins) were corroded and pitted. The start of a love story.
We thus replaced the damaged encaps (4 out 6).
Fast forward 3 years and another 500hrs (mostly on the 24VDC thanks to solar+lithium, so no hot engine room to blame) and we discovered a drip leak at one of the interconnect. Inspection showed chipped end caps and pitted stainless steel bobbin.
Spoke to the always extremely helpful Martijn from dessalator, expressing disappointment and mentioning the rumour i had heard of a plastic bobbin. He confirmed and said dessalator was now shipping new types of black end caps in a stronger material, that should resolve the issue together with the plastic bobbins. He wouldn’t disclose the exact change in material and told me i could only tell the difference with the previous black end caps by burning and sniffing the material.
I got a small discount from dessalator for those, after pointing how much i had spent on the previous set for it to last just 3 years.
Hope that’ll help
Best,
Thomas GARULFO A54-122 Vuda, Fiji
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On 27 Jul 2022, at 14:54, CW Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: Jose,
Thanks for that. Electrolysis affecting the plastic? I understand that the unbonded stainless steel bobbin can be vulnerable, but I do not get the Delrin end cap being a victim.
Anyway, this erosion of the end cap around the stainless steel bobbin has happened with both the white and black material. There are a lot of causal theories, but no hard evidence. <image.png> | | CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School | | | 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 | |
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Bill,
Not wanting to be polimized but I mentioned in my first post on this subject, that in the conversation with the factory Desalator technician (I have his post on WhatsApp) he commented that the reason for the factory replace the end caps and interconnectors was because stainless steel causes electrolysis and thus disintegrating the endcaps. He didn't mention the word metabisulfite! the problems with the endcaps come from the bad mix of materials (stainless steel x white polymer from the old endcap), and not from the misuse of the winterization process recommended by them.
On the factory website there is a price list where I took the values (https://www.dessalator.fr/en/after-sales-service/prices-of-the-spare-parts/-- )
cheers<838C2DE5-CA75-470D-BFC8-E747A5800CDF.png>
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Elba, Italy
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Re: Brush set (4) for jib furler motor Supermaramu
ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON
Thank you for brush replies........working on it. (Furler working fine)
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On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:19 PM CW Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: Eric,
OK, I have sent an email to the person I believe has inventory of this motor in Europe.
As soon as I receive an answer, I will get back to you.
Bill | | CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School | | | 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 | |
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On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 2:09 PM ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON < eclmarine@...> wrote: Thanks for your time, away from boat so no pics other than the one in original email.
On Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 6:15 AM CW Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: Eric,
Which Anel Genoa furler do you have?
1.) Early Model: 
2.) Late Model: 
Late Model 24v motor: | | CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School | | | 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 | |
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On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 10:32 PM Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: I have a source for a new motor if the Genoa furler is the version I think it is and not the earlier version. I can tell if you post a photo, and BTW, if any owner responds with spares, you will also need to determine the version. I will get back to you in a day or 2
Please post a photo. On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 19:48 ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON < eclmarine@...> wrote: Hello Group: Eric and Robyn here on LIBBY, SM#196, 1997 build, sailing out of Los Angeles Jib furler motor stopped working. Removed cover and found a handful of salt residue up to and in the brush sets. Confirmed power to motor and foil turning easily. Cleaned/vaccumed salt deposits then electrical cleaner and corrosionx. Motor runs quiet and strong, back in business. Now looking for source for brush set (4) for the 24v motor. Any spec. plate is long gone and inquiries to SAV@Amel indicate the motor and parts are no longer supported. Does anyone happen to have a source for those brushes or anyone with extra spares willing to sell four? Regards and good sailing, Eric
-- Eric C. Lichty
ECLMARINE, LLC.
cell: 425 354-7720
-- Eric C. Lichty
ECLMARINE, LLC.
cell: 425 354-7720
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Re: Brush set (4) for jib furler motor Supermaramu
Eric,
OK, I have sent an email to the person I believe has inventory of this motor in Europe.
As soon as I receive an answer, I will get back to you.
Bill | | CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School | | | 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 | |
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Show quoted text
On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 2:09 PM ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON < eclmarine@...> wrote: Thanks for your time, away from boat so no pics other than the one in original email.
On Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 6:15 AM CW Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: Eric,
Which Anel Genoa furler do you have?
1.) Early Model: 
2.) Late Model: 
Late Model 24v motor: | | CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School | | | 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 | |
|
On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 10:32 PM Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: I have a source for a new motor if the Genoa furler is the version I think it is and not the earlier version. I can tell if you post a photo, and BTW, if any owner responds with spares, you will also need to determine the version. I will get back to you in a day or 2
Please post a photo. On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 19:48 ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON < eclmarine@...> wrote: Hello Group: Eric and Robyn here on LIBBY, SM#196, 1997 build, sailing out of Los Angeles Jib furler motor stopped working. Removed cover and found a handful of salt residue up to and in the brush sets. Confirmed power to motor and foil turning easily. Cleaned/vaccumed salt deposits then electrical cleaner and corrosionx. Motor runs quiet and strong, back in business. Now looking for source for brush set (4) for the 24v motor. Any spec. plate is long gone and inquiries to SAV@Amel indicate the motor and parts are no longer supported. Does anyone happen to have a source for those brushes or anyone with extra spares willing to sell four? Regards and good sailing, Eric
-- Eric C. Lichty
ECLMARINE, LLC.
cell: 425 354-7720
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Re: PredictWind Bonus for you
heinz@quetzal.berlin
Thank you Bill Mit freundlichen Grüßen Heinz Stutenbäumer
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Am 28.07.2022 um 05:48 schrieb CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>:
Some of you have been waiting patiently for this from PredictWind:
Bill | | CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School | | | 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 | |
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--
Sv Quetzal, Supermaramu 2000, 292, cheers Heinz
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Re: Brush set (4) for jib furler motor Supermaramu
ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON
Thanks for your time, away from boat so no pics other than the one in original email.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 6:15 AM CW Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: Eric,
Which Anel Genoa furler do you have?
1.) Early Model: 
2.) Late Model: 
Late Model 24v motor: | | CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School | | | 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 | |
|
On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 10:32 PM Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: I have a source for a new motor if the Genoa furler is the version I think it is and not the earlier version. I can tell if you post a photo, and BTW, if any owner responds with spares, you will also need to determine the version. I will get back to you in a day or 2
Please post a photo. On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 19:48 ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON < eclmarine@...> wrote: Hello Group: Eric and Robyn here on LIBBY, SM#196, 1997 build, sailing out of Los Angeles Jib furler motor stopped working. Removed cover and found a handful of salt residue up to and in the brush sets. Confirmed power to motor and foil turning easily. Cleaned/vaccumed salt deposits then electrical cleaner and corrosionx. Motor runs quiet and strong, back in business. Now looking for source for brush set (4) for the 24v motor. Any spec. plate is long gone and inquiries to SAV@Amel indicate the motor and parts are no longer supported. Does anyone happen to have a source for those brushes or anyone with extra spares willing to sell four? Regards and good sailing, Eric
-- Eric C. Lichty
ECLMARINE, LLC.
cell: 425 354-7720
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Re: Brush set (4) for jib furler motor Supermaramu
ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 6:15 AM CW Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: Eric,
Which Anel Genoa furler do you have?
1.) Early Model: 
2.) Late Model: 
Late Model 24v motor: | | CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School | | | 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 | |
|
On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 10:32 PM Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote: I have a source for a new motor if the Genoa furler is the version I think it is and not the earlier version. I can tell if you post a photo, and BTW, if any owner responds with spares, you will also need to determine the version. I will get back to you in a day or 2
Please post a photo. On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 19:48 ERIC LICHTY & ROBYN ATKINSON < eclmarine@...> wrote: Hello Group: Eric and Robyn here on LIBBY, SM#196, 1997 build, sailing out of Los Angeles Jib furler motor stopped working. Removed cover and found a handful of salt residue up to and in the brush sets. Confirmed power to motor and foil turning easily. Cleaned/vaccumed salt deposits then electrical cleaner and corrosionx. Motor runs quiet and strong, back in business. Now looking for source for brush set (4) for the 24v motor. Any spec. plate is long gone and inquiries to SAV@Amel indicate the motor and parts are no longer supported. Does anyone happen to have a source for those brushes or anyone with extra spares willing to sell four? Regards and good sailing, Eric
-- Eric C. Lichty
ECLMARINE, LLC.
cell: 425 354-7720
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Re: Brush set (4) for jib furler motor Supermaramu
Eric, I have seen two different styles of motor installed in the genoa furler, one in our (1996) original, and one from the end of the production run, and both are different than your photo! The early motor was a Bosch, and the later one was out of Iran. I can’t help you with a specific brush recommendation, but you might try here: https://www.graphitestore.com/Carbon-Brushes/BrushesThey have a huge variety of different brushes, and might be able to match what you have. Bill Kinney SM160, HarmoniePort Louis, Grenada.
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PredictWind Bonus for you
Some of you have been waiting patiently for this from PredictWind:
Bill | | CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School | | | 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 | |
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Re: tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Hi Teun,
Can you please clarify, have you replaced 3 or 4 sets ( 6 or 8) of the new Bamar furlers with the worm gear drives or the original belt driven ones or a combination?
We replaced the original belt driven furlers 4 years ago with the new gear driven EJF series and have not had any issues yet.
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Teun BAAS via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 11:53 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
Good Morning,
I just received news that the motor in
both my barely used BAMAR EFJ furlers are shot (=dead)
☹
Since I am now looking for at least the 3rd (that I know off) but possibly 4th set of electric furlers on AMELIT in 13 years can anybody give me feedback
on the HARKEN electric furlers on an AMEL 54.
Looking forward to hearing from you
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT A54 #128
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
July 27, 2022 16:52:50
You can follow AMELIT via this link:
https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
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