Date   

Re: Dinghy Sizing

David Crisp
 

I have a Highfield CL290 with 15HP Honda 4 stroke.  Regret not getting the CL310 or CL340 as the CL290 is too short for the spacing of the davits on my A54 (fitted after I bought the dinghy). In the event we fitted a lifting eye to the bow deck which has helped solve the problem albeit not perfectly.  If anyone is interested in buying a two year old CL290 I'll get myself a longer dinghy!  (We are based in Preveza, Greece).

When I bought Wilna Grace it was 15 years since I had sold my previous SM.  With the SM I had an AB 290AL and 15HP Johnson 2 stroke - the 290 fitted fine on the aft deck and with the Johnson outboard served us really well.   On getting Wilna Grace and having to buy a new dinghy and outboard I got the 15HP Honda 4 stroke (the sale of 2 strokes being banned in Europe).  It was a shock when the 15HP Honda arrived, I hadn't realised how much heavier and larger 4 stroke outboards are!  Thank heavens for the crane on the mizzen.  Although kept on the dinghy/davits most of the time, when necessary the Honda is too tall and heavy to go on the rail so I have had to have a wooden bracket made up (removeable) so I could store the outboard in the lazarette. 

BTW I agree with Bill's comment about weight being an issue to consider if you plan to haul up on beaches regularly.  The weight of the 15HP Honda on the stern of our dinghy makes for a struggle when dragging it out of the water up the beach.
--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Re: SM Batteries

Martin Birkhoff
 

Hi Bill,

I have to apologize. I made a simple miscalculation. 
The result of 6 years (battery replacement three times) for the DEKA batteries would be 963 or 845 USD according the prices you have given. So this solution is significantly cheaper.

On a side note: We fitted Mago del Sur with AGMs in 2016. Since then we have had no problems. The batteries are still delivering full power still show full capacity.

Best regards

Martin
Mago del Sur - 54#40
Marina di Ragusa, Sicily


Re: SM Batteries

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Hallo Nick , 
look for the BOS LI 300 


Good luck 
Elja 
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Re: Bowthruster - hex-nut securing the motor to down-tube is stripped out

Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
 

Hi David,

We had a similar problem with the hex nuts that secure the exhaust manifold to the heat exchanger on the generator. All four were rusted and would not budge. With force they all would have broken off. For us it was heat that allowed them to be removed. We used a small hand held gas blow torch that enabled us to concentrate the heat entirely on the bolt itself. They all came out nicely with out using too much force. 

Keep at it you will get there.

Regards
Ross and Donna
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356

On Tuesday, December 14, 2021, 5:28 AM, David Vogel <david.vogel@...> wrote:

Update:  no joy as yet on removing that recalcitrant hex-bolt, despite 6 days of (gentle) heating and liberal applications of PB Blaster.  As we now have a few work-arounds for the leaking BT compressions seals, I have taken the BowThruster off the on-the-hard ToDo list, thereby unblocking the critical path to our splashback, now just awaiting the weather.

re the "multi-spline extractors": none being in stock in NZ, and all reputable purveyors of engineering supplies here not having heard or seen these before, we are now awaiting delivery from AUS, expected early in the New Year, when I will continue work on resolving this problem whilst in the water.

Thanks to all those who provided info & suggestions.  Your helpful feedback well appreciated.

David
SM#396, Perigee
Hardstand, Riverside Drive Marina
Whangarei, NZ


From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
Date: Wednesday, 8 December 2021 at 10:51 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bowthruster - hex-nut securing he motor to down-tube is stripped out

David,

I feel your pain! I never ran into that particular problem in that place, but I have an idea or two for you.

Rather than using the long version of the "EZ Out" try the shorter ones, usually called "multi-spline extractors"  They are short enough they will frequently grab in a stripped hex hole without drilling, and short enough you can put a good deal of torque on them without them tipping over.

The look like this: 


The down-tube is fiberglass, so be careful with heat!  Since the bolt is not threaded in to the motor casting, applying heat there is not likely to help.

Last idea, I am not sure the exact alignment, but you can get some REALLY long drill bits.  Electricians use them when running wires.  They might make it possible to drill out the bolt in it's current location if you do not have to fit the drill head in there.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Brunswick GA, USA (For the next few hours...)










--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey


Re: Bowthruster - hex-nut securing the motor to down-tube is stripped out

Bill Kinney
 

David,

That's really funny about the multispline extractors... I learned about them from a kiwi...

Bill


Re: STANDING RIGGING OTHER THAN ACMO

Chip Beaman
 

Bill,
  Thank you so much for your reply, this is great information. My intention is to bring as much information to the rigger before we start this job.  
  With ACMO unable to ship to the states, I’m just trying to get this right without to much disaster. This info helps greatly. 

Thanks again
CB
SM2K #430
Hawaii




On Dec 13, 2021, at 4:15 PM, Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

Chip,

There are a couple issues with using non-ACMO parts.  None of them are insurmountable, but they need to be understood.  In a perfect world, inch and metric parts would be available everywhere, and there would be no supply chain issues.  If only.

First, is the turnbuckle under the genoa furler.  This is a bespoke part from Amel, much shorter than any stock product.  You have two choices:  Reuse the old one, or have a new one made to fit.  One issue with reusing the old one is that the threads might then not match the new studs.  This might lead to a very unpleasant surprise when you go to put everything back together.  Reusing this bronze part is likely not an issue--once.  But it should be replaced at some point.

It is also very hard to source all the parts in a way that will fit all the existing holes for the clevis pins.  Do not allow the use of clevis pins smaller than original, this results in point loading and unacceptable wear on the chainplates and mast tangs.  If the pins need to change, go UP a size and ream out the holes to match the diameter of the pins exactly. Note that this is HARD to do without specialized tools  Just a simple drill bit is not going to work well. It is POSSIBLE to shim the holes and use a clevis pin a fraction smaller, but that is also not simple. Sorting out all the fitting issues is complex, and a big function of what parts are locally available. Especially true if you want to go to mechanical terminals instead of swages.  The availability of sizes is more limited.

The problem with changing the size of these pins is: it is irreversible.  Once done, the ACMO clevis pins will be too small and should not be used. Again, not necessarily a big deal, but something to be aware of.

How these issues are handled is what separates "Amel-Aware" riggers from the rest of the pack.  I know Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale make a custom headstay turnbuckle for the rigs they do.

I am agnostic about use of the ACMO rigging parts.  It is certainly a convenient and handy way of re-rigging. But other parts can be used...if it is approached with care and understanding. It's not a simple process. We had our rig redone by Nance and Underwood.  Without their background and experience with the Amel specific issues, I am sure there would have been problems.

Any rigger who quotes and designs this job by just looking at the wire sizes and lengths is likely to run into problems upon assembly.  Be sure they measure all the clevis pins and have a plan for how to handle any mismatches, and are aware of the issue with the headstay turnbuckle.

I am sure there are other issues that I have missed, but those seem to be the biggest ones.

Bill Kinney
Sm160,  Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: Bowthruster - hex-nut securing the motor to down-tube is stripped out

David Vogel
 

Update: no joy as yet on removing that recalcitrant hex-bolt, despite 6 days of (gentle) heating and liberal applications of PB Blaster. As we now have a few work-arounds for the leaking BT compressions seals, I have taken the BowThruster off the on-the-hard ToDo list, thereby unblocking the critical path to our splashback, now just awaiting the weather.

re the "multi-spline extractors": none being in stock in NZ, and all reputable purveyors of engineering supplies here not having heard or seen these before, we are now awaiting delivery from AUS, expected early in the New Year, when I will continue work on resolving this problem whilst in the water.

Thanks to all those who provided info & suggestions. Your helpful feedback well appreciated.

David
SM#396, Perigee
Hardstand, Riverside Drive Marina
Whangarei, NZ


From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, 8 December 2021 at 10:51 am
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bowthruster - hex-nut securing he motor to down-tube is stripped out

David,

I feel your pain! I never ran into that particular problem in that place, but I have an idea or two for you.

Rather than using the long version of the "EZ Out" try the shorter ones, usually called "multi-spline extractors"  They are short enough they will frequently grab in a stripped hex hole without drilling, and short enough you can put a good deal of torque on them without them tipping over.

The look like this: 


The down-tube is fiberglass, so be careful with heat!  Since the bolt is not threaded in to the motor casting, applying heat there is not likely to help.

Last idea, I am not sure the exact alignment, but you can get some REALLY long drill bits.  Electricians use them when running wires.  They might make it possible to drill out the bolt in it's current location if you do not have to fit the drill head in there.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Brunswick GA, USA (For the next few hours...)


Re: Type 2 Autopilot -noisy operation

Bill Kinney
 

The last time we had an Autopilot problem, Raymarine (or whatever they were called at the time!) offered a flat rate for repair and rebuild through their authorized repair centers.  $600 if I remember correctly. It might be worth exploring if that program is still in effect.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: Anchor Windlass leak/short?

Bill Kinney
 

Dan,

Just to add my thoughts to the mix:

It is very unlikely that this is a 220V leak, but if it is, it is a life-threatening issue to anybody who touches these parts and needs to be fixed right away. Get a meter on it and see if there are any AC voltages. If there are, the cause needs to be tracked down and eliminated ASAP. I can not propose a plausible way this could happen, but that does not mean it is impossible.

Static build up can not be caused by friction between moving metal parts, so that is not the source of the sparks.

That leaves us with a 24V spark as the most likely issue.  For this to happen there need to be TWO faults.  First, there needs to be a connection from one battery terminal to the housing of the windlass (Fault #1).  There ALSO needs to be a connection from the metal frame of the bow roller to the other battery terminal (Fault #2). There are NO other ways this can be a 24V spark.  Either fault can be to either battery terminal, and just to make life really difficult, both can be intermittent. Neither of these is normal, and neither is a good thing.

There are certainly other possibilities I haven't imagined, but here is my best guess about what might be the issue:

Fault #1:  There should be no connection between either battery terminal and the windlass housing, so something is wrong here.  The most likely cause here is a short from a switch, or the wiring to the switches, to the housing of the windlass.  It could also be caused by carbon buildup inside the motor from wearing brushes.  There are other causes internal to the motor that are less likely.  Water ingress to the motor housing is also a likely cause by bridging between any terminal--on any wire--and the housing. ANY water inside this housing is a problem, and has the potential to quickly cause motor damage.  It must not be tolerated. If water and switch wiring are proven to not be the issue, the motor likely needs to be rebuilt.

Remember that the switch wiring and the motor wiring are separate circuits.  If you observe the spark, turn off the breaker on the panel for the control circuits.  If the spark goes away, it is the switches or their wires that are the issue.  If it still sparks, the problem is with the motor and/or its wiring.

Fault #2: This is almost certainly caused by a cross connection between the bonding system and one of the battery terminals. Have you checked the MAS light for this kind of problem?  These can be the very devil to track down because they can happen anywhere on the boat that the bonding wires are connected to 24V powered equipment, and they can be intermittent depending on exactly what is powered up.

Both of these faults are individually, and separately, potentially serious problems that can cause rapid corrosion of metal parts on the boat and both need to be addressed.

We replaced the housing of our windlass with a solid one and discarded the switches that Amel modified the Lofrans housing to hold. A hand held wired remote control works MUCH better for us.  

It is now possible to lean forward and actually SEE the chain and anchor as it comes up, and use the washdown hose to clean off mud without having legs the length of a pro basketball player and the flexibility of a yoga instructor.  The potential for leaking switches is removed, as is switch failure.  For us this was a win-win arrangement and we'd never go back to the Amel designed system.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: STANDING RIGGING OTHER THAN ACMO

Bill Kinney
 

Chip,

There are a couple issues with using non-ACMO parts.  None of them are insurmountable, but they need to be understood.  In a perfect world, inch and metric parts would be available everywhere, and there would be no supply chain issues.  If only.

First, is the turnbuckle under the genoa furler.  This is a bespoke part from Amel, much shorter than any stock product.  You have two choices:  Reuse the old one, or have a new one made to fit.  One issue with reusing the old one is that the threads might then not match the new studs.  This might lead to a very unpleasant surprise when you go to put everything back together.  Reusing this bronze part is likely not an issue--once.  But it should be replaced at some point.

It is also very hard to source all the parts in a way that will fit all the existing holes for the clevis pins.  Do not allow the use of clevis pins smaller than original, this results in point loading and unacceptable wear on the chainplates and mast tangs.  If the pins need to change, go UP a size and ream out the holes to match the diameter of the pins exactly. Note that this is HARD to do without specialized tools  Just a simple drill bit is not going to work well. It is POSSIBLE to shim the holes and use a clevis pin a fraction smaller, but that is also not simple. Sorting out all the fitting issues is complex, and a big function of what parts are locally available. Especially true if you want to go to mechanical terminals instead of swages.  The availability of sizes is more limited.

The problem with changing the size of these pins is: it is irreversible.  Once done, the ACMO clevis pins will be too small and should not be used. Again, not necessarily a big deal, but something to be aware of.

How these issues are handled is what separates "Amel-Aware" riggers from the rest of the pack.  I know Nance and Underwood in Fort Lauderdale make a custom headstay turnbuckle for the rigs they do.

I am agnostic about use of the ACMO rigging parts.  It is certainly a convenient and handy way of re-rigging. But other parts can be used...if it is approached with care and understanding. It's not a simple process. We had our rig redone by Nance and Underwood.  Without their background and experience with the Amel specific issues, I am sure there would have been problems.

Any rigger who quotes and designs this job by just looking at the wire sizes and lengths is likely to run into problems upon assembly.  Be sure they measure all the clevis pins and have a plan for how to handle any mismatches, and are aware of the issue with the headstay turnbuckle.

I am sure there are other issues that I have missed, but those seem to be the biggest ones.

Bill Kinney
Sm160,  Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: Dinghy Sizing

Bill Kinney
 

Richie,

We have tried storing our dinghy on the bow, and have not been at all happy with it.  It is very hard to secure it so it is not vulnerable to rough seas breaking aboard.  The forces involved can be very large, and if the dinghy was to break free, it could be a serious problem.  Visibility issues are not at all trivial.  We have gone back to storing it athwartship on the afterdeck, and there it will stay.

We have the AB Lammina 10 (3.2M) in uncoated aluminum. This size leaves us enough room to easily pass by it on either side to reach the back of the boat.  Having access on only one side is just not acceptable.  Asking crew to get to the aft deck on the leeward side of a boat close hauled and in rough weather is not a good idea.

Lifting it on and off is easy with a halyard connected to the bow.  A mast winch easily handles the weight.

One of the things people seem to discount too much (in my opinion!) is how important the overall weight of the dinghy is.  This is not an issue when it comes to lifting it up on the big boat where any reasonable dinghy can be handled with the mechanical assistance of a halyard winch. BUT... when you come up on a beach and need to haul up out of the surf is one time when bigger is most certainly NOT better. If the crew can not pick it up and carry it, it will be a problem.  Even dinghy wheels, although they can help, are most certainly not useable on every beach. If you only plan to go to dinghy docks and marinas, this might not apply to you.  But we prefer more remote places, and beach and surf landings are involved in most of our dinghy trips.

Our boat has a 2 cycle 15 HP engine, and it is much more than needed.  Doubly so after we replaced the standard prop one that actually matched the load. 10HP (with the right prop) would be everything needed for this hull.

Our thoughts in detail are here:  https://fetchinketch.net/boat_thoughts/about-dinghies/

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Hollywood, FL, USA


Re: SM Batteries

 

Kent,

I thought you were giving me the resting battery voltages, but you were giving me the voltage at the battery monitor with solar connected. When checking battery voltage you should check resting voltage with no charging device connected and ON. I am sure you have a fuse you can remove or a switch to turn off solar. Check the voltage after about an hour, then check the voltage with the furler motor engaged.

I did not know the NAPA battery was the same, but that does not surprise me as I think the Penn Manufacturing DC31DT can be found with many different labels. Another is West Marine.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 1:01 PM karkauai via groups.io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

--Hi Bill,
The NAPA 8231Ns are the same battery EPenn sells as your DEKA DC31DTs.

I have tried furling with the generator while checking the voltage at the output of the controlling solenoids.  There is no significant voltage drop, with or without the generator/charger running.  I fully expected to see a significant drop, but it's not there.


Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Re: SM Batteries

 

Martin,

Maybe you missed that the DKEA Size 31 Marine Master Batteries are $107 USD or 95 euro.

Additionally, it seems that the risk of ruining batteries by overcharging, etc., and other reasons is significant among Amel owners.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 3:08 PM Martin Birkhoff <mbirkhoff@...> wrote:
Hello Bill, 

sorry for my late response but I would like to add a different aspect to the discussion.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree about your opinion concerning household batteries. If the batteries you name last 2 bi 3 years, they are not a convincing choice. According to my research they have a capacity of 225 Ah at 12 V for 107 USD. Currently an AGM Varta 115 Ah / 12 V costs about 280 € at SVB, Germany.
Looking at a battery bank of 600 - 700 Ah at 12 V, you can buy 3 Deka (675 Ah) or 6 Varta (690 Ah). The price difference is 321 USD to 1,580 €. But: the AGMs will last at least 6 to 7 years. So, arithmetically, this comes out to approximately the same amount of money. Against this background, there is no reason to buy classic lead-acid batteries. Another thing to consider: Such batteries are not designed for the characteristics on board a sailing boat, even if they are heavy-duty or deep-cycle batteries or whatever they may be called. 

From our personal experience: We started our circumnavigation 2004 to 2009 with gel batteries. After 7 years (!) of use, we had to replace them in Chile in early 2008 if my memory is correct. Since we couldn't get adequate batteries, we bought heavy-duty lead-acid batteries (maintenance-free). It soon became apparent that they were not suitable for the consumption or discharge characteristics on board a sailing boat on a long voyage and broke down after a few months. About nine months later (still in 2008) we bought AGM batteries of comparable capacity in Peru. These were on board our boat until 2020!  

To be honest, I never understood the reason why Amel still provided lead-acid batteries for the 54. This was not state of the art even 15 years ago. In addition, from my personal point of view as an environmental engineer, it is not a good idea to use batteries that have to be disposed of every two to three years. The goal should rather be to strive for the most sustainable use possible. In addition, there is what happens to the disposed lead-acid batteries in many countries. We have had extremely questionable experiences with this.

I ask for your understanding, but I simply have to put this up for discussion.
 
Best regards 

Martin
SY Mago del Sur - 54#40
currently Marina di Ragusa
 


Re: Dinghy Sizing

Bruno COTTE
 

JP you have a 9.5 AL and not UL as you have a locker in front and dual bottom … 


Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 13 déc. 2021 à 22:21, Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> a écrit :

True. Best is a raw aluminium hull

We have an AB 9.5 UL with the big sponsons and deep V. This gives a very acceptable and dry ride even in choppy conditions. Equipped with a Yamaha 2 stroke 15 hp Enduro, It comes up on the plane quickly with two people on board. 

Admittedly with four people on board, she will not plane well but stows easily forward of the main mast on deck for long passages. Never tried on the off deck as we have Davits Incorporated in the solar panel arch. (used solely on coastal passages)

Good luck

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera , SM007, New Zealand


On 14 Dec 2021, at 07:40, Bruno COTTE <cotte.bruno@...> wrote:

Due to the evolution of regulations concerning many painting components all industries face a problem with aluminium paintings . 
If you go on internet you will see the problems of the last Airbus aircraft paintings 
With Amel we face « 
Bubbles » on  many masts since 10 years now … it is obviously the same with all painted masts …
When you see the bottom of aluminium dinghy you have the same problem whatever the dinghy manufacturer. 


Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 13 déc. 2021 à 19:31, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> a écrit :


Victor,

As most Amel owners know, painting aluminum is at best still a risky issue. Many A55 owners know this better than previous Amels. I am not sure why there seem to be more aluminum coating failures lately, but I suspect it has to do with certain prep chemicals being outlawed. 

We had an AB aluminum dinghy for 11 years. When it was 10 years old there was less painted area than bare aluminum. I thought Highfield and sister company 3D offered dinghies that were electrostatic-spray powder-coated. I would assume that this painting method would be better but it might make the process even more difficult and thus risky to the coating losing adhesion to the surface.

Whatever the issue is with yours, why don't you give the details, but focus on the aluminum coating issues rather than the manufacturer because I believe that probably any manufacturer and possibly any Amel owner will experience this issue. 

You experienced coating failure with Highfield and I did with AB Navico. Today AB ships the aluminum dinghy uncoated. You can special order power coating. Their website states, "Although the tender is uncoated for minimal maintenance, you can choose to add a Chrome-free Pretreatment and Powder Coating."  Another brand that I like is Caribe. They had the same coating flaking problem that you and I experienced. They solved it by no longer offering aluminum hulls.

I believe that there is a risk of coating failure with any aluminum dinghy. I think you are lucky if you do not experience it.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 11:13 AM VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...> wrote:
Hello Richie.
I bought a Highfield 290 dinghy last July. In September I already had bubbles in the paint of the hull. If you (or anyone) are interested in the response of Highfield when I sent the pictures and asked for a solution (that has not arrived yet), please let me know and I will describe it to you in a private conversation, since I know that this group does not allow for negative observations about brands or providers. 
Victor 
SM314 Alendoy


Re: SM Batteries

Dean Gillies
 

Kent,
I haven't seen the spec sheets for your batteries, but... is it possible that your ABS voltage is a little low?

Solar is notorious for gradually undercharging lead batteries.  You might think your lead bank is fully charged by mid-day, but mostly that's not true.  Lead batteries have an incredibly long tail in the charging cycle and 8 hours of sun often isn't enough to give them a complete charge. 
 
Why does your battery monitor tell you they are fully charged?  
Usually the monitor uses a voltage threshold and a tail current to determine when 100% SOC is reached.  

If you are charging at a lower (Abs) voltage then the current will also be lower, and the monitor will declare 100% SOC sooner than the battery needs. If you were to then increase the voltage to say 29.4V then the current would increase and it would take much longer for the monitor to declare 100% SOC.  (The tail is very flat). So using a 28.5V (Abs) level may be declaring 100% earlier than it should be.  This problem will compound in quite a short time ... the battery charge acceptance rate will diminish, resulting in the tail current threshold happening incrementally sooner.  The batteries seem fully charged, according to the monitor, but in fact they are just losing capacity.

Didn't intend this post to be so long!  Bottom line, is your 28.5V Abs voltage the same as recommended by the battery manufacturer? (For example my AGM's specify 28.8V - 29.8V, so I use ABS 29.4V for cyclic use)

Cheers, Dean
SV STELLA
A54-154   


Re: Dinghy Sizing

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

True. Best is a raw aluminium hull

We have an AB 9.5 UL with the big sponsons and deep V. This gives a very acceptable and dry ride even in choppy conditions. Equipped with a Yamaha 2 stroke 15 hp Enduro, It comes up on the plane quickly with two people on board. 

Admittedly with four people on board, she will not plane well but stows easily forward of the main mast on deck for long passages. Never tried on the off deck as we have Davits Incorporated in the solar panel arch. (used solely on coastal passages)

Good luck

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera , SM007, New Zealand


On 14 Dec 2021, at 07:40, Bruno COTTE <cotte.bruno@...> wrote:

Due to the evolution of regulations concerning many painting components all industries face a problem with aluminium paintings . 
If you go on internet you will see the problems of the last Airbus aircraft paintings 
With Amel we face « 
Bubbles » on  many masts since 10 years now … it is obviously the same with all painted masts …
When you see the bottom of aluminium dinghy you have the same problem whatever the dinghy manufacturer. 


Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 13 déc. 2021 à 19:31, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> a écrit :


Victor,

As most Amel owners know, painting aluminum is at best still a risky issue. Many A55 owners know this better than previous Amels. I am not sure why there seem to be more aluminum coating failures lately, but I suspect it has to do with certain prep chemicals being outlawed. 

We had an AB aluminum dinghy for 11 years. When it was 10 years old there was less painted area than bare aluminum. I thought Highfield and sister company 3D offered dinghies that were electrostatic-spray powder-coated. I would assume that this painting method would be better but it might make the process even more difficult and thus risky to the coating losing adhesion to the surface.

Whatever the issue is with yours, why don't you give the details, but focus on the aluminum coating issues rather than the manufacturer because I believe that probably any manufacturer and possibly any Amel owner will experience this issue. 

You experienced coating failure with Highfield and I did with AB Navico. Today AB ships the aluminum dinghy uncoated. You can special order power coating. Their website states, "Although the tender is uncoated for minimal maintenance, you can choose to add a Chrome-free Pretreatment and Powder Coating."  Another brand that I like is Caribe. They had the same coating flaking problem that you and I experienced. They solved it by no longer offering aluminum hulls.

I believe that there is a risk of coating failure with any aluminum dinghy. I think you are lucky if you do not experience it.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 11:13 AM VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...> wrote:
Hello Richie.
I bought a Highfield 290 dinghy last July. In September I already had bubbles in the paint of the hull. If you (or anyone) are interested in the response of Highfield when I sent the pictures and asked for a solution (that has not arrived yet), please let me know and I will describe it to you in a private conversation, since I know that this group does not allow for negative observations about brands or providers. 
Victor 
SM314 Alendoy


Re: SM Batteries

Martin Birkhoff
 

Hello Bill, 

sorry for my late response but I would like to add a different aspect to the discussion.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree about your opinion concerning household batteries. If the batteries you name last 2 bi 3 years, they are not a convincing choice. According to my research they have a capacity of 225 Ah at 12 V for 107 USD. Currently an AGM Varta 115 Ah / 12 V costs about 280 € at SVB, Germany.
Looking at a battery bank of 600 - 700 Ah at 12 V, you can buy 3 Deka (675 Ah) or 6 Varta (690 Ah). The price difference is 321 USD to 1,580 €. But: the AGMs will last at least 6 to 7 years. So, arithmetically, this comes out to approximately the same amount of money. Against this background, there is no reason to buy classic lead-acid batteries. Another thing to consider: Such batteries are not designed for the characteristics on board a sailing boat, even if they are heavy-duty or deep-cycle batteries or whatever they may be called. 

From our personal experience: We started our circumnavigation 2004 to 2009 with gel batteries. After 7 years (!) of use, we had to replace them in Chile in early 2008 if my memory is correct. Since we couldn't get adequate batteries, we bought heavy-duty lead-acid batteries (maintenance-free). It soon became apparent that they were not suitable for the consumption or discharge characteristics on board a sailing boat on a long voyage and broke down after a few months. About nine months later (still in 2008) we bought AGM batteries of comparable capacity in Peru. These were on board our boat until 2020!  

To be honest, I never understood the reason why Amel still provided lead-acid batteries for the 54. This was not state of the art even 15 years ago. In addition, from my personal point of view as an environmental engineer, it is not a good idea to use batteries that have to be disposed of every two to three years. The goal should rather be to strive for the most sustainable use possible. In addition, there is what happens to the disposed lead-acid batteries in many countries. We have had extremely questionable experiences with this.

I ask for your understanding, but I simply have to put this up for discussion.
 
Best regards 

Martin
SY Mago del Sur - 54#40
currently Marina di Ragusa
 


Re: SM Batteries

Dean Gillies
 

Nick,
Yes. In 2020 I designed a directly connected AGM+LFP hybrid system almost exactly as you describe and proceeded to build a 12V version at home during Covid. I tested it thoroughly for 9 months.

Earlier this year, I installed the full 24V version on Stella and it has been running successfully for 6 months. I am extremely happy with the results.    

My design tilts the balance in favour of LFP capacity, using 115Ah of AGM and 540Ah of LFP.  This is simply because lithium likes to be cycled and lead likes to be floated.  In normal cruising, my AGM component is almost always on float at 100% SOC and my LFP component is almost always cycling between 30% and 90%.SOC. 

So why bother with the AGM's at all ?

1. If my BMS decides to disconnect my LFP component for any of the myriad reasons that can happen, then the AGM takes over the load seamlessly. The lights stay on, the instruments keep running and the coffee machine is still available (for a wee while anyway!).

2. If my alternator inhibit system was to fail while motoring and the LFP's were disconnected due to overcharging, the AGM batteries are still online and prevent any over-voltage damage to the 24V system components.

3. When laid up for long periods I can take the LFP component offline (at ~60%SOC) and simply operate the AGM in float either from the mains charger or shallow cycling from solar. I'm home again in Australia and Stella is in Spain so this is what I did before I left her.

Please feel free to email me if you want to talk turkey about the detailed design.
My battery box now likes the attached pics.

Cheers, Dean
SV STELLA 
A54-154

 



Re: SM Batteries

karkauai
 


--Hi Bill,
The NAPA 8231Ns are the same battery EPenn sells as your DEKA DC31DTs.

I have tried furling with the generator while checking the voltage at the output of the controlling solenoids.  There is no significant voltage drop, with or without the generator/charger running.  I fully expected to see a significant drop, but it's not there.


Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Re: Dinghy Sizing

Bruno COTTE
 

Due to the evolution of regulations concerning many painting components all industries face a problem with aluminium paintings . 
If you go on internet you will see the problems of the last Airbus aircraft paintings 
With Amel we face « 
Bubbles » on  many masts since 10 years now … it is obviously the same with all painted masts …
When you see the bottom of aluminium dinghy you have the same problem whatever the dinghy manufacturer. 


Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 13 déc. 2021 à 19:31, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> a écrit :


Victor,

As most Amel owners know, painting aluminum is at best still a risky issue. Many A55 owners know this better than previous Amels. I am not sure why there seem to be more aluminum coating failures lately, but I suspect it has to do with certain prep chemicals being outlawed. 

We had an AB aluminum dinghy for 11 years. When it was 10 years old there was less painted area than bare aluminum. I thought Highfield and sister company 3D offered dinghies that were electrostatic-spray powder-coated. I would assume that this painting method would be better but it might make the process even more difficult and thus risky to the coating losing adhesion to the surface.

Whatever the issue is with yours, why don't you give the details, but focus on the aluminum coating issues rather than the manufacturer because I believe that probably any manufacturer and possibly any Amel owner will experience this issue. 

You experienced coating failure with Highfield and I did with AB Navico. Today AB ships the aluminum dinghy uncoated. You can special order power coating. Their website states, "Although the tender is uncoated for minimal maintenance, you can choose to add a Chrome-free Pretreatment and Powder Coating."  Another brand that I like is Caribe. They had the same coating flaking problem that you and I experienced. They solved it by no longer offering aluminum hulls.

I believe that there is a risk of coating failure with any aluminum dinghy. I think you are lucky if you do not experience it.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 11:13 AM VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...> wrote:
Hello Richie.
I bought a Highfield 290 dinghy last July. In September I already had bubbles in the paint of the hull. If you (or anyone) are interested in the response of Highfield when I sent the pictures and asked for a solution (that has not arrived yet), please let me know and I will describe it to you in a private conversation, since I know that this group does not allow for negative observations about brands or providers. 
Victor 
SM314 Alendoy

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