Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Fresh water accumulator

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Paul, this is a different explanation than before.

Check the one-way valve. If you are continually loosing pressure quickly without sufficient flow of water, it is a symptom of a dirty or failed one-way valve and the pressure and water is passing through the one-way valve back into the tank.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: Fresh water accumulator

ya_fohi
 

Mohammed,

The pressure with no water i the accumulator is 0.4 bar as Bill said. It pressures up to 3.4 when the tap is turned off. When the tap is running, it drops to 1 bar in about two seconds then the pump kicks in. The pump stops when it reaches about 3 bar, about a other two seconds, and the cycle continues. When the pump is off the pressure at the tap drops right down to a trickle.It almost seems as if ewhen the pump is off the weater is being forced back into the pump ad not out to the tap - at least that is what it seems. Below is a photo of the whole installation:




On the grey plastic box at the bottom there is an adjustment which I believe may be for the pump pressure valve, but I am not sure. I also cannot see how to remove this box.

Below is a close up:


And here is another photo of the system just to make things clear as I am not sure if all Amel 54s have the same arrangement:


I could not see any air valve as referred to by Olivier. However, as I said the pressure is 0.4 when empty of water.

Cheers,
Paul



---In amelyachtowners@..., <mshirloo@...> wrote :

Hi Paul;

We had the same issue. The source of the problem may be several areas.

First check to make sure the start and stop pressures of the water seem correct. The pump should kick on at about 1.4 bar and should stop at about 2.3 bar. These are approximate and can be changed via the pressure switch mounted on the accumulator tank.

If the turn on and off pressures are correct, then my guess would be that you are losing air pressure in the accumulator tank or the air space in the tank is filled with water, since it is cycling every 3 seconds. The pressure could be lost either from the air inlet connection in the back, the round stainless steel cover in the front or a leak in the accumulator bladder. Try pumping up the air from the back of the tank and see if it helps. My guess is that it won't since you probably have water in the air space in the tank and cannot be pressurized.


All of these are fairly simple to change. The bladder is replaced by removing the front cover, pulling out the existing bladder and putting in a new one, making sure you get a good seal when putting the cover back on. The tire pressure style air inlet in the back has to be piled out from the inside of the tank to replace. Try tightenting the nut in the back first to see if it seals the any potential leaks.

Bottom line I think you will have to pull out the bladder, check for any holes in the bladder, replace with new if necessary and make sure the air inlet in the back of the tank is not leaking.

Let me know how things go and any new info and I may be able to help further.

Mohammad and Aty
AMEL 54 #099
B&B Kokomo


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water heater AMEL 54

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Mohammad, I considered total replacement as well, but elected to buy spare parts only. The inside of the heater proved to be in excellent condition, including the engine passthrough line. What I replaced was the front face plate with new heater elements attached. If you buy the elements and face plate together all you have to do is mount it. The gaskets are already on. Very easy to do. What is not easy to do is tighten the threaded supply fittings such that they do not leak. No matter how much tape and/or sealant I used, they still drip a bit. I stopped it with rescue tape for now and plan to replace the metal fittings when I get to a supply chandlery.
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 11:33 AM, "mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Thanks every one for the responses.

In order to avoid further water heater issues, i.e. heat exchanger, water tank leaks etc., My plan is to change out the water heater completely.  Does any one see any downsides to the replacement other than cost?

Barry, I would appreciate any photos you may have. Where are your auto pilot pumps and oil reservoirs mounted?

Mohammad and Aty
AMEL 54 #099
B&B Kokomo



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma Heater

pepinoamel <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Bill,


Thanks for your step by step explanation on how to fix it.  I have been working away on it during the day and I only needed to remove the air pipe on top of the unit and the electronic box to be able to slide the Climma unit out far enough towards the toilet so I could work on it.  I didn't have to remove the toilet.  The heater unit is easily removed by undoing  6 screws on top and 2 bolts at the back.


After testing the unit components, it turned out that the thermo fuse was broken.  I replaced it with a 10 Amp 121C unit and now it's working again.


It saved me 200 Euros for a new heating element.  The capacitators were 2 Euros each and the thermo fuse was 1 Euro.  So I'm happy about that.


I will  replace the other capacitators on the other two Climma units as well, as they are probably also out of spec by now.


As always, many thanks.


Gerhard Hoffmann

SY Pepino 381

Evia, Greece


Water heater and fresh water pump.

Barry Connor
 

Hi Mohammad,

Below are photos of the water heater and fresh water pump. My auto pilot is Raymarine electric drive motor, carry a complete spare of this system.
I changed the heater element and put a new bladder in the fresh water pump tank. My pump was cycling on and off every few seconds. Still setting the pressures on this fresh water pump.
Best Regards

Barry & Penelope
AMEL 54. #17
'Lady Penelope II'
Marina di Ragusa
Sicily


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery replacment in the U.S.

James Alton
 

Alex,
  I have been able to buy the metric case Sonnenschiens from Fort Lauderdale Battery and Alternator, so maybe give them a try. 
   On a side note, I am working on a boat that had the US made Prevailer (SONNENSCHIEN) gel batteries installed as a house bank of three on Jan. 8th of 1996 according to the note written on top of the batteries.  As far as I know the batteries have not been touched since the original installation.   I have not yet done a full test but the batteries still seem serviceable and charge and function normally.  I have some of the German made SONNENSCHIEN gel batteries in my own boat in NS that are still great and are approaching 20 years.  No gassing issues and these batteries are rated safe even for air transport.  I am hoping that the Exides will be as good since I will be putting them in Sueno.  Rated capacity is lower and the initial cost is higher but I really like the reliability and how clean these batteries are (no leakage).  The chemistry is different for gels in that they usually use phosphoric acid rather than sulphur which apparently is the main reason for the long life.  Some use a phosphoric/sulphur mix to boost capacity but at the expense of life expectancy.

Best,
James Alton
A/V Sueno, Maramu #220
Arcata, Italy


Sent from my Galaxy S®III

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> </div><div>Date:12/13/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: amelyachtowners@... </div><div>Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery replacment in the U.S. </div><div>
</div>I’m trying to find a housing battery replacement for my existing Sonnenschein 6V 200AH, AGM’s
Their dimension is 24,5x,24,5X19cm (9,65x9,65x7,5 inches). Exide Technologies (Sonnenschein) don’t sell that model in the U.S., so I can’t replace 1:+1.
Talking to a local battery store here in Stuart, they said that all U.S. sold batteries have different dimensions. They suggest to go for a model with slightly bigger dimensions, but unfortunately they are to big for my compartment and my current battery configuration. (4 blocks serial connection 4x6V = 24V, total of 16 batteries).
Can any of you confirm that it won't be possible to find a battery in the dimension I need in the U.S.? Appreciate any advice on how to deal with this situation.
Alex Ramseyer
AMEL54 no15, NO STRESS
currently Stuart, FLA

Posted by: Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery replacment in the U.S.

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex,

I am 99% sure that your Amel 54 has a battery box with the same dimensions as a Super Maramu battery box. Your Amel came with what is referred to as GP31 or Group 31 batteries. There were most likely 1 starting battery and 12 house batteries. They were either lead acid sealed Freedom style batteries or calcium acid seal Freedom style batteries. They were either 105 or 110 amps each.

This will fit and are available in the US. Let me know if you would like a photo of the layout.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Dec 13, 2016 11:02 AM, "Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I’m trying to find a housing battery replacement for my existing Sonnenschein 6V 200AH, AGM’s
Their dimension is 24,5x,24,5X19cm (9,65x9,65x7,5 inches). Exide Technologies (Sonnenschein) don’t sell that model in the U.S., so I can’t replace 1:+1.
Talking to a local battery store here in Stuart, they said that all U.S. sold batteries have different dimensions. They suggest  to go for a model with slightly bigger dimensions, but unfortunately they are to big for my compartment and my current battery configuration. (4 blocks serial connection 4x6V = 24V, total of 16 batteries).
Can any of you confirm that it won't be possible to find a battery in the dimension I need in the U.S.? Appreciate any advice on how to deal with this situation.
Alex Ramseyer
AMEL54 no15, NO STRESS
currently Stuart, FLA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water heater AMEL 54

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks every one for the responses.

In order to avoid further water heater issues, i.e. heat exchanger, water tank leaks etc., My plan is to change out the water heater completely.  Does any one see any downsides to the replacement other than cost?

Barry, I would appreciate any photos you may have. Where are your auto pilot pumps and oil reservoirs mounted?

Mohammad and Aty
AMEL 54 #099
B&B Kokomo


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water heater AMEL 54

Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...>
 

I agree - it is an easy DIY job. I replaced mine in 2013 and the boat was first launched in 2008. Oddly, the old element worked fine with the generator, but popped the 230V breaker when connected to shore power. I was told this was because it was on earthed then. Whatever, I too now carry a spare......

Regards,  Tony Robinson (Catriona R - Amel 54 #102).



From: "Barry Connor connor_barry@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water heater AMEL 54

 
Hi Mohammad and Aty,

We replaced our heating element after we purchased in May 2015.
The element had blown some time before we bought, this was not picked up on the survey. A mess inside but easy to clean out.
It was easy to replace having been invoked with water heated stainless steel tanks in previous business.
Got 2 stainless steel heating elements from a marine chandlers, about $40 each I carry a spare now. Did not have to remove the complete water heater unit to replace the element. Took my time but still done in less than one hour. I don't have any hydraulic pumps on top of the water heater.
Do you need a photo? It is an easy DIY job.
Best Regards

Barry & Penelope
AMEL 54. #17
'Lady Penelope II'
Marina di Ragusa
Sicily


On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:12 PM, mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hi everyone;

I had been following all the interesting conversations about the water heater longevity, failures and subsequent issues caused by the failures. SInce ours has just hit the 8 year timeline, I had decided to replace ours at the next haul out date this year, prior to any failures which is in line with our philosophy about all of maintenance issues..

A couple of nights ago while plugged into shore power, I noticed that the power was out. The main breaker at the shore power pedestal at the harbor had popped. After resetting everything seemed to work OK. We only turn on the water heater breaker about once a day or when we notice water temperature in the faucet getting low. The next time I tried turning on the water heater, It popped the breaker again. For now it seems intermittent.

My questions are:

1. It would appear that we may have the pin hole in the heating element that every one has been experiencing. Is this the most likely cause or could something else also cause this event?

2. We have ordered a new water heater which is the standard 40 liter 750W Isotemp with exact same part number. Has any one replaced theirs and can indicate any particular issues with the replacement. It appears fairly straight forward but sometimes things appear simpler before you dive in. The hydraulic reservoirs and pumps for the auto pilots are mounted on the water heater. Can these simply be supported by some other means while the water heater is removed and replaced or do the hydraulic lines need to be disconnected to physically move the water heater out?

Any other thoughts and input would be welcome.

Mohammad and Aty
Amel 54 #098
B&B Kokomo



Battery replacment in the U.S.

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

I’m trying to find a housing battery replacement for my existing Sonnenschein 6V 200AH, AGM’s
Their dimension is 24,5x,24,5X19cm (9,65x9,65x7,5 inches). Exide Technologies (Sonnenschein) don’t sell that model in the U.S., so I can’t replace 1:+1.
Talking to a local battery store here in Stuart, they said that all U.S. sold batteries have different dimensions. They suggest  to go for a model with slightly bigger dimensions, but unfortunately they are to big for my compartment and my current battery configuration. (4 blocks serial connection 4x6V = 24V, total of 16 batteries).
Can any of you confirm that it won't be possible to find a battery in the dimension I need in the U.S.? Appreciate any advice on how to deal with this situation.
Alex Ramseyer
AMEL54 no15, NO STRESS
currently Stuart, FLA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water heater AMEL 54

Barry Connor
 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

We replaced our heating element after we purchased in May 2015.
The element had blown some time before we bought, this was not picked up on the survey. A mess inside but easy to clean out.
It was easy to replace having been invoked with water heated stainless steel tanks in previous business.
Got 2 stainless steel heating elements from a marine chandlers, about $40 each I carry a spare now. Did not have to remove the complete water heater unit to replace the element. Took my time but still done in less than one hour. I don't have any hydraulic pumps on top of the water heater.
Do you need a photo? It is an easy DIY job.
Best Regards

Barry & Penelope
AMEL 54. #17
'Lady Penelope II'
Marina di Ragusa
Sicily


On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:12 PM, mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi everyone;


I had been following all the interesting conversations about the water heater longevity, failures and subsequent issues caused by the failures. SInce ours has just hit the 8 year timeline, I had decided to replace ours at the next haul out date this year, prior to any failures which is in line with our philosophy about all of maintenance issues..


A couple of nights ago while plugged into shore power, I noticed that the power was out. The main breaker at the shore power pedestal at the harbor had popped. After resetting everything seemed to work OK. We only turn on the water heater breaker about once a day or when we notice water temperature in the faucet getting low. The next time I tried turning on the water heater, It popped the breaker again. For now it seems intermittent.


My questions are:


1. It would appear that we may have the pin hole in the heating element that every one has been experiencing. Is this the most likely cause or could something else also cause this event?


2. We have ordered a new water heater which is the standard 40 liter 750W Isotemp with exact same part number. Has any one replaced theirs and can indicate any particular issues with the replacement. It appears fairly straight forward but sometimes things appear simpler before you dive in. The hydraulic reservoirs and pumps for the auto pilots are mounted on the water heater. Can these simply be supported by some other means while the water heater is removed and replaced or do the hydraulic lines need to be disconnected to physically move the water heater out?


Any other thoughts and input would be welcome.


Mohammad and Aty

Amel 54 #098

B&B Kokomo


Water heater AMEL 54

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi everyone;


I had been following all the interesting conversations about the water heater longevity, failures and subsequent issues caused by the failures. SInce ours has just hit the 8 year timeline, I had decided to replace ours at the next haul out date this year, prior to any failures which is in line with our philosophy about all of maintenance issues..


A couple of nights ago while plugged into shore power, I noticed that the power was out. The main breaker at the shore power pedestal at the harbor had popped. After resetting everything seemed to work OK. We only turn on the water heater breaker about once a day or when we notice water temperature in the faucet getting low. The next time I tried turning on the water heater, It popped the breaker again. For now it seems intermittent.


My questions are:


1. It would appear that we may have the pin hole in the heating element that every one has been experiencing. Is this the most likely cause or could something else also cause this event?


2. We have ordered a new water heater which is the standard 40 liter 750W Isotemp with exact same part number. Has any one replaced theirs and can indicate any particular issues with the replacement. It appears fairly straight forward but sometimes things appear simpler before you dive in. The hydraulic reservoirs and pumps for the auto pilots are mounted on the water heater. Can these simply be supported by some other means while the water heater is removed and replaced or do the hydraulic lines need to be disconnected to physically move the water heater out?


Any other thoughts and input would be welcome.


Mohammad and Aty

Amel 54 #098

B&B Kokomo


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma Heater

karkauai
 

I've not had to work on my Climma heater, but with other heating elements you can check resistance (Ohms) through the element.  If out of spec that would indicate you have a bad element.  You may be able to do this without removing it from the unit.  I would follow BeBe Bill's advice first.
Kent
SM243
Kristy

Kent Robertson
Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma Heater

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Gerhard,

Those old capacitors were out of tolerance enough to slow the fan down. I am surprised that this did not solve your problem.

There is an exposed micro-switch on the metal frame of the  heating element. The switch is normally closed, but when the heating element is TURNED ON, a spring on this switch gets hot, expands and forces the switch OPEN and OFF. This switch turns OFF one of the relays in the control box. This frame-mounted switch will OPEN and OFF when the fan is running too slow. The switch is for safety so that the heating element does not get too hot.

It is possible that there are 1 of 3 issues:
1.) The frame mounted switch may be full of dust and lint and is not mechanically CLOSING and turning ON.

2.) The switch is working but the relay is not. If you replace the relay from Climma, please photo which relay it is.

3.) The heating element is bad (I do not think it is this).

So, if I were you, I would remove the toilet. Be sure to use a lot of penetrating oil on the 3 bolts. The bolt on the front of mine was very difficult. I finally got it to move a few degrees and with some back and forth turning and a lot of penetrating oil got it out. Other owners have broken this bolt, had to drill it out and re-tap the threads.

Once the toilet is out of the way, you can begin. Be very careful of the condensation drain pipe and the plastic drain pan that is under the evaporator. This plastic pan is easily cracked or broken. Climma has no more and if you break yours, you will be forced to fabricate one. So when removing the drain hose do not pull hard and break the pan!

Remove the drain hose, the large air duct hose, the filter, and cut the plastic ties holding the temperature probe in front of the evaporator. Next remove the 4 stainless steel clamps and screws that hold the unit down on the piece of plywood. One of them will be in the back and hard to get to. When reassembling, locate it elsewhere. Remove the control box using the Amel thumb nut which is on the topside of the shelf that the control box is under. You may have to cut the plastic tie holding together the wires.

At this point you should be able to slide the entire unit out and far enough to remove the blower and get to the heating element. If not, you will have to disconnect each of the wires going to the control box, and the two water hoses (you will need 2 plugs and do not turn on air conditioning with these disconnected and plugged).

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma Heater

pepinoamel <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Bill,


I'm afraid you might lose that bottle of wine.  I've changed the capacitors, they were out of tolerance and the 2 mf's were reading 1.6 and the 3.15 mf was reading 2.5.  So I changed them with new ones, checked them, they have the correct reading but unfortunately I'm still only getting cold air.  Any idea what else I can check?  I will try to take the heater unit out without removing the toilet and leaving the unit in its place.  Do you think that will work?


Many thanks.


Gerhard Hoffmann

SY Pepino 381

Evia, Greece


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Hot Water Heater Failure

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

FYI we fitted a new Quick 40L hot water system this past week. These have a temp setting as mentioned here and in addition, the ones approved for supply in Australia, had to be adapted with a mixing bypass pipe and valve system added on as well just as Bill describes.

Colin & Lauren Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel53 #332
Brisbane


KInd regards

Colin Streeter
0411 016 445

On 13 Dec 2016, at 7:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I assume (but do not know) that the standard Amel heavy rubber hoses are good for at least 80C.  They specified extra good stuff everywhere.  That assumes no other type of hose has been added, or changed out on your boat in its lifetime.  The standard polyester fiber reinforced clear PVC hose that most boasts are built with has a max rating of 150F (65C).


The real problem in my mind is that 80C water can come out of a faucet. That would worry me. If that doesn’t concern you, then set it for what ever temperature makes you happy!

Just for reference, the standard setting for domestic hot water in the USA is about 125F (52C). 

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Ships and men rot in port."






On Dec 12, 2016, at 16:14, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill & Bill,


OK... so if 80 °C is too much for the hoses, what is the recommended temp setting?  On Quick water heaters, the thermostat allows a range which I believe starts at 40°.  I have ours set at 80°.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K #350
Venice



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma Heater

Thomas Peacock
 

We just had problems with our Climma,  but on the AC side, not the heating. 

I agree that the capacitors may be to blame, but I would also check the relays. I believe one of the three relays controls the heating unit. You can hot-wire bypass it for testing purposes.

Tom Peacock
SM #240 Aletes
Saint Augustine, Florida


On Dec 12, 2016, at 1:36 PM, pepinoamel <no_reply@...> wrote:


Hi all,


I have encountered a problem with my Climma heater in the rear cabin.  The fan is running on all 3 stages, the air conditioner is working but the heater unit doesn't heat.  After talking to the Climma dealer in Athens, I suspect I need to replace the heating unit.  I believe it can be taken out by undoing the 4 screws that hold down the top steel plate.  Has anybody had this problem and has experience in replacing it?  I hope it can be done by leaving the unit in situ.  Any advice would be appreciated.


Many thanks.


Gerhard Hoffmann

SY Pepino 381

Evia, Greece




Re: Fresh water accumulator

ya_fohi
 

Thanks you all for providing lots of information. I will try these and get back with the results.
Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Hot Water Heater Failure

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

I assume (but do not know) that the standard Amel heavy rubber hoses are good for at least 80C.  They specified extra good stuff everywhere.  That assumes no other type of hose has been added, or changed out on your boat in its lifetime.  The standard polyester fiber reinforced clear PVC hose that most boasts are built with has a max rating of 150F (65C).

The real problem in my mind is that 80C water can come out of a faucet. That would worry me. If that doesn’t concern you, then set it for what ever temperature makes you happy!

Just for reference, the standard setting for domestic hot water in the USA is about 125F (52C). 

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Ships and men rot in port."






On Dec 12, 2016, at 16:14, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill & Bill,


OK... so if 80 °C is too much for the hoses, what is the recommended temp setting?  On Quick water heaters, the thermostat allows a range which I believe starts at 40°.  I have ours set at 80°.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K #350
Venice



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Hot Water Heater Failure

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Bill & Bill,

OK... so if 80 °C is too much for the hoses, what is the recommended temp setting?  On Quick water heaters, the thermostat allows a range which I believe starts at 40°.  I have ours set at 80°.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K #350
Venice